Ness or Lucas

[Triplehelix2.0]

Hi everybody, I'm new-ish to the whole "psychic children" scene in brawl and was just wondering which one would be better for me. I've found that I have trouble timing things with ness, but have heard that he is better than Lucas once he is mastered. I don't mind playing with Lucas. My questions is: should I stick with Lucas or master Ness?

 

[Levitas]

You've been hearing things from Ness players, who are all absolutely certain that Ness is harder to master than any other character.

You'll get farther with lucas by a long-shot.

Do what you want, though. Just don't let people indoctinarate you with the believe that Ness is broken but he's "so hard to master".

Things Ness has:
1. Good "combos"
2. Broken kill throw (at 130 on pretty much anyone)

Things Lucas has:
1. Spammable projectile (PK fire)
2. Really good recovery

As far as the grab thing that everyone's talking about right now, Ness is far worse off than Lucas.

 

[Hax]

lucas is a much better character

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness is harder to pick up than Lucas, but he's not better. People are going to dismiss me as the annoying n00b for saying this but w/e.

I think they're equal. they both have different abilities that can be put to great use.
Im making a comparison thread that'll help you choose which one is better suited to you.

If you want a little summary.

Ness is an aerial comboist who raks up damage through repetetive aerials. Finsish with an aerial or throw.
Lucas plays a very defensive and campy game and racks up damage with few attacks. Finish with a smash.

 

[x9whitey9x]

I don't know if Ness can Zap Jump, but Lucas sure as hell can. Lucas has a huge amount of ATs that are unique, to couple with decent air game, good smashes, and kickass recovery.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness has something called a PK jump that's very useful, if not more than the Zap jump
Ness has his ATs also, they're just not listed (I will be listing them soon)
His smashes are also good, but not as good as Lucas (minus the usmash)
Ness has better airgame
Lucas' recovery pwns Ness'

 

[Kcdragon8116]

I say Lucas is the better character. His recovery is way better, and his pk fire is more useful imo. Also his shield/absorb can do damage if it connects (which is nice) and his grab can also be used to recover from off the stage.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Ness has something called a PK jump that's very useful, if not more than the Zap jump
Ness has his ATs also, they're just not listed (I will be listing them soon)
His smashes are also good, but not as good as Lucas (minus the usmash)
Ness has better airgame
Lucas' recovery pwns Ness'

Thats weird... I like Lucas's airgame, it seems to me that his aerials are quicker and easier to hit with.

I would say Lucas pwns Ness simply because of the better recovery, SLIGHTLY more useful B special (not that either one has a good B special), better PK Fire, more powerful smashes, and an easier learning curve.

 

[Rebellion]

It's just as some people said. Ness is good at what Lucas is bad at, and vice versa. I learnt Ness before Lucas, so I'm just better with him. Lucas has the better ground-game (his bat, especially), while Ness has the better airgame. Even so, Lucas has a pretty good airgame, and Ness, vice versa.

But it's true, Ness is a little harder to learn than Lucas.

@Chris Lionheart : 4 of Ness's aerials can KO pretty easily, compared to Lucas's 1 really good aerial that doesn't really KO, and Ness's aerials are easier to chain (with the exception of, IMO, Lucas's f-air).

I think I missed out on a lot of stuff... but you can take a look at the Lucas/Ness guide, I guess.

 

[Earthbound360]

Or you can wait for my almost done comparison thread.

 

[eHerbieInReverse]

Waiting on EB360. But while we wait, let me just say that PK Jump for Ness is a lot more useful than Zap jumping in my opinion.

PK Jumping: Aerial PKFire that gives Ness a quick hop. This results in a pseudo-rising PK Fire, while placing Ness right next to where the PK Fire landed if Ness uses it at a reasonable altitude.

Lucas PK Thunder 2, in my opinion, pales in comparison to Ness' besides in actually recovering.
Also, for me, recovering with Ness' PKT2 usually isn't much of a problem, even if it doesn't cover as much distance.

Lucas F-Smash is definitely a lot easier to utilize, however.

 

[Levitas]

lol, actually recovering is exactly what PKT2 is for when you play lucas. He's got enough other kills. Zap jumping is useful sometimes, but PK jumping puts the opponent right next to you and they'll get a grab (at least) if they have the brains to shield the bolt.

Now if we want to talk about more useful pk fire techniques, Lucas's bsticked pk fire is better than Ness's Pk jump by far. It pokes and is impossible for many characters to punish.

 

[Earthbound360]

^^^
Actually, if you use the PKF lag cancel, they cannot retaliate a blocked PK JumpPK Jumping is IMO>Zap jumping as it can be used in more situations and is IMO, one of Ness' best approaches. It feels like aerial snakedashing.

Also, wavebouncing = firebounding for Ness. Look it up. It's just harder. It's not as effective, but still defensive and it's also lagless when you PKF lag cancel.

It's generally agreed that Ness' aerials are better. Most of them can kill (not the fair, nair off stage), and they are much more lagless and quick than Lucas'. Lucas' aerials tend to push people away or bring them to the ground for tilts (nair, dair).

All in all though, Lucas' PKF is better than Ness'. It doesn't combo, but it plays a big role in Lucas' game and gives him the range that makeshim so much more effective on characters with a good amount of physical range.

PKT2 for Lucas is used for recovery purposes mainly as it doesn't often kill until over 130ish, and youcannot always connect that last hit. It also can be suicidal if used wrong since it goes so very far.

But Lucas' recovery pwns Ness' no doubt. He's got a bigger PKT2, lessdangerous recovery as the bolt pierces enemies, rope snake, zapjump, and magnet pulling.

Also, his PSI magnet helps recovery a lot. Try going to Hyrule temple and making a templejump. You can make it, but you must use your double jump. If you try again and repeatedly use PSI magnet to work with your momentum, you can make it without the double jump. Ness cannot do this.

 

[Tyr_03]

^^^
To add to that, Ness's recovery is much easier to gimp than Lucas's. Ness's PKT1 has noticably lower priority than Lucas's (even FLUDD and Water Gun can cancel Ness's PK Thunder.) Ness's PKT2 has higher priority than Lucas's which helps a little. Although again FLUDD and Water Gun will push Ness back during PKT2 while they simply cancel Lucas's PKT2 because of the lesser priority. Really Ness's recovery just plain sucks but atleast they gave him his killer back throw and good aerials.

 

[Tristan Fattest of All Kids]

Lucas for me. Ness is so much better against n00bs though. His up-b is so fast and can punish players with ease.

 

[Earthbound360]

Yeah, Ness' recovery aint so great, but it's wonderful at reverse edgeguarding since PKT2 kills so easily.
Another problem is that PKT2 for Ness loses its distance after hitting almost ANYTHING, including projectiles. It's amazing how simple it is for Ness to gimp another Ness'recovery.
Lucas can slope up walls easier than Ness as well.

BTW Tyr, Im pretty sure if Ness or Lucas are hit with water during PKT, they're both screwed.

The only thing Ness has on recovery is slower fall speed, bigger jumps, a bigger sweetspot range, and a powerful PKT2 with huge priority and invincibility. This could work in conjunction with a reverse edgeguard.

 

[ctk495]

I prefer Lucas than ness,I like lucas recovery than ness recovery.

 

[Dekar]

BOTH! for shizzle, PK power to the limit

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Lucas doesn't get hurt as badly from the chain grab...

 

[Dekar]

hey now, when melee came out i lost to my friends Fox for 3 years solid, then after that he couldent touch me, its all about determination. =3

 

[PCHU]

Lucas.
He is just a really good character.
I mean, his fsmash comes out faster, and it reflects just like Ness', so it's both FASTER and has the SAME PROPERTIES as Ness'.
PKT goes through people, knocks away the smash ball, and can circle around bosses for multiple hits.
PKT2 is great for multiple people, plus, from what I have heard, it goes farther.
Lucas has the snake rope, so if you don't want to risk accidentally killing yourself with thundering the wrong way, you can grab the ledge.
Lucas has the PK Fire that is suitable for sudden death. (for me, at least)
Lucas has a very useful dair.
I was playing against a friend's Pikachu, and he got the slow watch, or whatever.
Then, right when he got it, I used down air.
It went something like this: CHU! Stomp. CHU! Stomp. CHU! Stomp. CHU! Stomp. CHU! He got me, then it ended.
But I was still alive.
His nair is great; you can set up so many other things with it.
His downsmash hits bosses three times.
His usmash is a killer.
His PSI Magnet reaches farther.
PK Freeze....Freezes...what else would it do, set you on PK Fire?!
His fair can be SHFF'd, and it makes for a good damage racker, I guess.

That's what I gathered from my main, Lucas.

 

[Dekar]

Its not like the YOYO is worthless anymore, comes out faster then both his smashes and has some fairly good knockback, more then makes up for his slow bat (which IS different, its longer and and it tips, Lucas cant tip)

Not to mention the fact that you can grab right after a downstep with ness, while your forced to wait 30 seconds to recover with lucas.

Its a trade off, they didnt make 1 stronger or 1 faster, and i like using both of them =3.

All i try and rememeber when switching is its backair that takes longer with lucas >.< cant tell you how long it took me to get the timing down on that pact, cause in the middle of a battle id fall back on 7 years of ness playing.

oh ya, and i still djc all the freaking time, or rather attempt too

 

[Roller]

NESS FTW! He's just better.

 

[Falcon...Puuunch!]

I think we can all agree on this one. They're both great characters with their weaknesses and advantages. But, when it comes right down to it, pick one.

Top Tier Hair

or

Gangsta Hat.

Choose wisely young padawan.

 

[PCHU]

Lucas has Roxas hair, so of course it's top tier.

Anyway, I think Lucas is great for beginners, and while Ness is good when mastered, I think that a well played Lucas could stomp Ness (if we're talking dair, that's four times in one move).
Not hating on Ness, I just take the side of the so-called wimp and destroy everyone/thing in my way.
Whoever tries to stop me gets PK Dead.

 

[Dekar]

pick one? in melee i 'mained' Ness, Falco, Marth, young link, and fox, if you ask me picking just one is why people hit a plataeu.

In fact, i regularly play Ness, Lucas, Marth, Ike, falco, fox, and wolf lol. If you ask me it dosent hurt doing that, but im biased

 

[Falcon...Puuunch!]

It was a joke. >_>

 

[TechnoMonster]

Guys don't bump ancient threads.

 

[Raider 88]

Two weeks is ancient?

I prefer Lucas over Ness. I love how his PK Thunder goes through people, and his smash attacks are so powerful. I also really don't care for the yo yo.

 

[wavelucas]

Lucas, definatly. The usefulness of his PK thunder for edgeguarding far exceeds Ness's advantages.

 

[gantrain05]

lucas just for the red head conan o'brien hair lol.

 

[Xitan]

In my opinion;

Lucas is easier to master, and is a very good character to use. (He's my main)

Ness is fine too, but like most people said, he is sorta harder to master with that Lucas.

But I like them both. xD

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Ness is better, no question. Faster pk thunder (can't be airdodged like Lucas's), smaller amount of lag, insane priority on his spike (which is much easier to hit), not to mention his broken b-throw. His fair and dash attack outprioritize all of Lucas's hits. Lucas's only better options are his smash attacks and thunder that goes through enemies (so his recovery can't be gimped). Other then that, Ness outclasses him in every way.

 

[PCHU]

I would say that I have about 10 videos that shows Lucas is better than Ness, but it's not fair, because it's me against a level nine.
Still, I say Lucas is better.
Even though his Pk Fire doesn't stay, it's still nice.
Plus, it KOs on Sudden Death.
His thunder goes through stuff, so it's better.
He goes farther when struck.
His stick is faster than Ness' bat.

He's just so much easier, and his aerials are great for strategy.

 

[Raiderwarlord99]

This is all just a matter of opinion. I suggest you take this debate elsewhere all it's doing is clugging up the Lucas & Ness forums.

 

[Earthbound360]

Take it here. This is to end all of these stupid topics, or at least herd them all into one place.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171897

Open to discussion, flames, compliments, etc.

 

[Mr_Milo]

Lucas is just a better character, overall =]

 

[PKSkyler]

use Lucas, he is easier to master than ness, he is sort of like "A begginers Ness", then after your good with lucas maybe you can try ness.

 

[Slyde]

Lucas is much better, trust the guy who mains pit (me) and go for Lucas.

 

[Slyde]

lucas just for the red head conan o'brien hair lol.

Lucas has Yellow hair 'tard