Needle-cancel landing

[Lawrencelot]

I have no idea what the name is for this technique, but I am talking about jumping while you are below a platform, then press b while you're sort of at the same height as the platform, and then you are suddenly charging needles while grounded, instead of charging them in the air. Well, my question about this technique is, if you use this to needlecancel + grab for example, is it faster than a waveland + grab? Are there any other uses for this that make it better than wavelands?

 

[_Rocky_]

sounds like no-impact landing
you land on the platform with 0 landing lag (not even the normal 3 i believe)
thus if needles can be canceled within 3 frames its faster than waveland -> grab

mad hard tho

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4_W5hVGVoE?

 

[soap]

i do something like this on YS and PS

i sh needle onto the platforms instead of waveland. less land lag i believe, plus u r throwing out a hitbox which is never bad

 

[djmirrorr]

watch soap sheik tech vid

 

[unknown522]

KirbyKaze posting.

Not sure what we should call it, but I think we should start differentiating between needle cancel and needle store because it gets confusing explaining the difference to new people and why the same term is used for different actions.

I think the needle cancel should just be autocanceling the aerial needles with the landing animation.

Needle stores should refer to the turn-around needle store --> bair. And other associated things.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I just found this today (too bad you beat me :[), it definitely seems useful. It's basically lovage's shine-landing with Sheik. Fulljump over the platform and needle charge right as you pass over it, and then needle store. It's faster than waveland, and not that hard to do consistently (I've been doing it on battlefield).

 

[dude it's raining]

Fiddling around with TAS on dolphin coz I don't have a gamecube:

You can needle charge on the ground on the third frame after your knee comes above the platform. With the TAS, I was able to get the cancel in 7 frames, and then it took 7 more frames to store it before you could act (I did a perfect frame SHAI drop with the TAS just to be beast).
I'm assuming this is right and I don't have the dolphin frame rate all jacked up b/c the SHAI drop frames worked perfectly.

Cogs are starting to move in my head what with the recent post from the PMBR about their debug mode having those nodes at the knees... Incidentally, the earliest waveland is also on the third frame after Sheik's knee comes up through the platform. The frame right before is when her boot on the bent foot becomes visible.

For comparison, waveland -> grab takes 10 frames, while needle land -> grab takes 15 (7 to needle land, and I couldn't get the grab until 8).
So it doesn't seem to be faster than waveland grab (unless I just don't get it?)

 

[SUNG475]

Waveland grab would be 17 frames (10 for airdodge lag, 7 for the grab)
Nice testing! :] awesome

 

[Drephen]

if you press another direction in the air and then press the b button, you can turn around with the needle charging. I accidently discovered this the other day when trying to grab someone