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Need help with C Falcon matchup
- Thread starter A4k1ng
- Start date
Genghis_Connor
Smash Cadet
Don't get hit and then punish the lag or do cool shieldstun desyncs
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Fresh knee, low on your shield, is +1, and falcon has some pretty good options and mixups to keep him safe after landing.
These are some of the things he likes to do often:
Jab
Double jab
Gentleman
SideB
Dash away (and/or dd)
Grab
Knee again
So it's kind of garbage to let him hit your shield. You'll usually have a bad time.
But there are some other things you can do if he approaches with knee too much (remember, the range of the move is actually not that great, what's scary is how far falcon goes).
Blizzard is really good for stopping falcons from shffling in, he's really fast though, so extended desync walls are risky, but blizzard is nice for keeping him out. You just have to be very wary of your position during the startup and cooldown.
Wd back->up angled ftilt if you have space is really nice. It usually grounds him, which is no good for falcon.
Sh bair is just really good in the mu if you space well.
You can also wd in -> utilt if you can catch him before the hitbox is active
So those are just a couple things that work well for me.
These are some of the things he likes to do often:
Jab
Double jab
Gentleman
SideB
Dash away (and/or dd)
Grab
Knee again
So it's kind of garbage to let him hit your shield. You'll usually have a bad time.
But there are some other things you can do if he approaches with knee too much (remember, the range of the move is actually not that great, what's scary is how far falcon goes).
Blizzard is really good for stopping falcons from shffling in, he's really fast though, so extended desync walls are risky, but blizzard is nice for keeping him out. You just have to be very wary of your position during the startup and cooldown.
Wd back->up angled ftilt if you have space is really nice. It usually grounds him, which is no good for falcon.
Sh bair is just really good in the mu if you space well.
You can also wd in -> utilt if you can catch him before the hitbox is active
So those are just a couple things that work well for me.
Cervidae
Smash Apprentice
On top of what Derf already said, the key to this match up is proactive denial of short hops. Since Falcon can so quickly cover horizontal air space, it's near impossible to challenge any of his aerials on reaction, and like Derf said, most (if not all) of his aerials are safe of IC's shield. Whether they have a positive frame advantage or capitalize on the fact that ICs lack an OoS shield game, Falcon has little worries about advancing or pressuring a grounded ICs. Having a strong yomi game is critical in this match up, but thankfully most Falcon's short hop all the time, taking a large chunk of the guessing game out of the picture. Some options that I personally like to use (other than the one's that Derf suggested) include:
WD in Up-Smash (sometimes in place, as the large hitbox can work as a good anti-air too. If used in place, make sure you are synced, as the extra up-smash from Nana greatly helps with the timing.) This move is excellent for catching a short-hop happy Falcon, but it should also go without saying that if used improperly or excessively can result in a costly punish. Key times to use this move are when you are within the range from directly next to a short hopping Falcon to about the midpoint of his furthest short hop distance. If you are near then end of his furthest horizontal short hop distance, I would recommend wavedashing just outside of his horizontal range and using a up angled f-tilt like Derf said. (P.S. Fly makes good use of this technique throughout the match, so if you want more examples, just watch the rest of the set.)
Rising Nair. [edit: I think I grabbed the wrong part of the vid by a few seconds. Just wait until he loses Nana and b-throws Falcon off stage; the example follows shortly afterwards.] This is about as close as it gets to a reactionary punish, but is very difficult to space properly. The idea is to catch Falcon short hopping towards you with a vertically inclined aerial by low-profiling underneath him and using the topmost hitbox to intercept him. I'd recommend this for a more agro style of ICs, but this technique becomes even more difficult when Nana is around, since she occupies additional space around Falcon, making her an easy target.
If you begin to shut down Falcon's short hops, he might be tempted to approach higher by using full hops or double jumps. If that's the case, then you can now punish on reaction with up-airs by abusing the fact that the Ice Climbers have a shorter full hop than Falcon, almost leaving them just far enough below him to reach with a well spaced up-air. (Notice how S2J double jumped several times in front of Fly; this might have been a giveaway that he should punish with an up-air).
The way I approach this match up is like trying to control a fire; you have to remain just outside of the range where you can get burned in order to prevent it from getting out. The match up is very difficult because the IC's don't have a lot of safe options to punish a Falcon while the opposite is true for Falcon. I think it's also worth noting that Falcon is probably my worst match-up, but mostly because I think I play too passively against him. Most of my good plays against Falcons have come from not allowing them to start their aerial pressure, so don't be afraid to make a few gutsy reads to discourage them from abusing the air space that ICs have a hard time occupying.
P.S. Please don't down smash too often in this match up; Falcon's love it when you do that.
WD in Up-Smash (sometimes in place, as the large hitbox can work as a good anti-air too. If used in place, make sure you are synced, as the extra up-smash from Nana greatly helps with the timing.) This move is excellent for catching a short-hop happy Falcon, but it should also go without saying that if used improperly or excessively can result in a costly punish. Key times to use this move are when you are within the range from directly next to a short hopping Falcon to about the midpoint of his furthest short hop distance. If you are near then end of his furthest horizontal short hop distance, I would recommend wavedashing just outside of his horizontal range and using a up angled f-tilt like Derf said. (P.S. Fly makes good use of this technique throughout the match, so if you want more examples, just watch the rest of the set.)
Rising Nair. [edit: I think I grabbed the wrong part of the vid by a few seconds. Just wait until he loses Nana and b-throws Falcon off stage; the example follows shortly afterwards.] This is about as close as it gets to a reactionary punish, but is very difficult to space properly. The idea is to catch Falcon short hopping towards you with a vertically inclined aerial by low-profiling underneath him and using the topmost hitbox to intercept him. I'd recommend this for a more agro style of ICs, but this technique becomes even more difficult when Nana is around, since she occupies additional space around Falcon, making her an easy target.
If you begin to shut down Falcon's short hops, he might be tempted to approach higher by using full hops or double jumps. If that's the case, then you can now punish on reaction with up-airs by abusing the fact that the Ice Climbers have a shorter full hop than Falcon, almost leaving them just far enough below him to reach with a well spaced up-air. (Notice how S2J double jumped several times in front of Fly; this might have been a giveaway that he should punish with an up-air).
The way I approach this match up is like trying to control a fire; you have to remain just outside of the range where you can get burned in order to prevent it from getting out. The match up is very difficult because the IC's don't have a lot of safe options to punish a Falcon while the opposite is true for Falcon. I think it's also worth noting that Falcon is probably my worst match-up, but mostly because I think I play too passively against him. Most of my good plays against Falcons have come from not allowing them to start their aerial pressure, so don't be afraid to make a few gutsy reads to discourage them from abusing the air space that ICs have a hard time occupying.
P.S. Please don't down smash too often in this match up; Falcon's love it when you do that.
Last edited:
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
You gotta force him into the corner.
When falcon loses the ability to dd he's not nearly as good.
Personally, I don't think the mu is that bad, just really annoying to deal with.
When falcon loses the ability to dd he's not nearly as good.
Personally, I don't think the mu is that bad, just really annoying to deal with.
Cervidae
Smash Apprentice
Cervidae
Smash Apprentice
That's way too general of a statement to make. I'd agree that Falcon has an easy time controlling the air with short hop aerials (which is what the whole thread is pretty much about, at this point), but IC's don't typically have issues contesting a full hop or double jump from Falcon, since his only aerial to cover below him is his slowest one. This is especially true if he's trying to jump over the IC's, like you suggested, as he's very susceptible to being beat with an air-to-air up air. Falcon generally has a hard time dealing with characters directly below him, and even though he normally does well against IC's in the air; this positioning still does not favor him.
Cervidae
Smash Apprentice
Really late, but the point of trying to catch a full hopping Falcon is to catch him while he's rising or at the peak of his jump. Not only would up-air probably beat out a FF Nair from below (worst case scenario: trade), but ideally Falcon shouldn't even be able to FF. My suggestion would be to not engage IC's out of a full hop or double jump unless used as a mix up.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
Thats probably because the ICs youre playing are going in the air in bad spots.
The idea is to be grounded until falcon does something dumb and you get under him.
This is super easy when you push falcon to the corner because you take away his space to challenge you, since his aerials are too slow and not as safe when youre in his face (nair and uair being the fastest, but easily cc grabbed)
So he's forced to try and go above ICs, which is not safe if ICs catch him rising up, or retreat to the ledge, when ICs set up projectile walls that give him trouble in that position.
Usually he opts to go above or try and mix up some weird waveland stuff which doesn't work if ICs are ready for it.
If ICs are walling falcon correctly in neutral, they can also condition him to try and mix in doublejumps, which are awful if ICs react correctly.
The idea is to be grounded until falcon does something dumb and you get under him.
This is super easy when you push falcon to the corner because you take away his space to challenge you, since his aerials are too slow and not as safe when youre in his face (nair and uair being the fastest, but easily cc grabbed)
So he's forced to try and go above ICs, which is not safe if ICs catch him rising up, or retreat to the ledge, when ICs set up projectile walls that give him trouble in that position.
Usually he opts to go above or try and mix up some weird waveland stuff which doesn't work if ICs are ready for it.
If ICs are walling falcon correctly in neutral, they can also condition him to try and mix in doublejumps, which are awful if ICs react correctly.