My WiiU Bowser Reaction

[Hyrus]

Day 1
"Wow, Bowser is fast! Omg, drop kicks are the most fun thing ever! Holy crap, firebreath!... is smaller than it appears... Disjointed hitboxes, hell yeah!"

Day 2
Right, well...

Forward smash is very unsafe on shield :^\. I love this move, but... DownB feels like it has a better risk/reward ratio; it'll at least break a shield and catch people trying to zone Bowser's 45 degree vulnerable zone (trying to aerial his nose, basically). Klaw's range is shorter and delegated to a punish option. I think the suicide thing is a glitch with the "whywouldtheydothis?" vectoring/DI removal. Fortress is weaker, but still very useful.

So you have to be defensive, but the defensive options are weaker. His pokes are good, but, have short hitbox frames and are iffy on certain projectiles. Clash frames make me sad. Most characters will just avoid the front of Bowser and roll through or go to the air. All his aerials are unsafe on shield (unless you count a sweetspotted DownB). Klaw from the air doesn't seem to have enough range. His grab range is smaller, or maybe everyone's faster to the point where it feels like I can't space it right.

He can do some fun things against people on the ledge.

Getting back to the ground is some kind of a nightmare. Most people realize that you can do anything to a person just before they touch the ground and they're just gonna eat it. While DAir is really improved, it's also very readable and unsafe on shield. FAir has barely any reach, Nair hits primarily above Bowser, and people stand just far enough they will see a telegraphed firebreath and roll into Bowser to punish as he lands. I mean, they can literally stand where FAir won't hit or punish it out of shield, roll under firebreath, avoid the slam hitbox of DAir... I don't know.

- Mashing "B" during his recovery has caused me to accidentally go into an automatic get up attack, making for an easy read. Maybe I just need to be more precise.

- I've been grabbed out of fortress.

- I have a hard time down smashing out of shield on the WiiU pad.

- C.Falcon's dash grab slides me over to over the ledge. I frantically mash the buttons to get out before he can throw, buffering me into a suicidal DAir.

- I played against a Sonic spamming Spin Dash. In hind sight, I probably should have just waited for as long as the player was willing to troll me, but there didn't seem to be anything I could do to approach it. He could jump over my shield, crash through my approach, or just rush away and reset. Maybe I just need more time with the game, but that and his Diddy was just, ugh.

The character can be a lot of fun, but, it just feels like his weaknesses are very glaring in certain matchups to the point where it just isn't fun to play him. In no matchup does Bowser feel like he's got a clear advantage. But again, this is just my initial reaction... the game is still very fresh and maybe I just havn't acclimated to the roll-spammy safe-on-shield iteration of this game.

 

[B!squick]

Aside from technical mistakes, some things to note:

-Bowser's arms are intangible for several of his moves (Jab, FTilt, NAir, DTIlt, probably a few others) so just punch most projectiles and apply liberally to your opponent's face.
-DAir's initial hitbox does 25% and spikes, use as opening present themselves.
-USmash is a better DAir in the opposite direction, use as openings present themselves.
-Pivot grab is bananas, learn it and drink your opponent's sweet sweet tears.
-Never play against Rosalina.
-I personally just pretend SideB doesn't exist lately. Any thing it does, DownB or just plain Grab can do better or equally.

Oh yeah, are you speaking from online experiences? I wouldn't sweat failings in that environment. Unless you're playing with friends I've found this game to be down right unplayable most of the time online.

 

[Ranias]

Forward smash is very unsafe on shield :^\.

Yeah, it's better used as a hard punish or edgeguard.

Klaw from the air doesn't seem to have enough range. His grab range is smaller, or maybe everyone's faster to the point where it feels like I can't space it right.

It's basically unusable in the air. It should be used for punishing, mostly.

FAir has barely any reach, Nair hits primarily above Bowser, and people stand just far enough they will see a telegraphed firebreath and roll into Bowser to punish as he lands. I mean, they can literally stand where FAir won't hit or punish it out of shield, roll under firebreath, avoid the slam hitbox of DAir... I don't know.

Fair is good for edgeguarding. Nair is good if you need a hitbox out ASAP. You should basically try to stick to the ground for the most part. Up Smash and Dash Attack are amazing against landing opponents.

- I've been grabbed out of fortress.

Don't use it on the front of your opponent's shield. Fortressing out of shield is amazing though.

I have a hard time down smashing out of shield on the WiiU pad.

Don't ever Down Smash. Its endlag is too much to risk. Use Up Smash or Up B instead.

C.Falcon's dash grab slides me over to over the ledge. I frantically mash the buttons to get out before he can throw, buffering me into a suicidal DAir.

Lol. I usually just mash jump and control stick to get out of grabs.

I played against a Sonic spamming Spin Dash. In hind sight, I probably should have just waited for as long as the player was willing to troll me, but there didn't seem to be anything I could do to approach it. He could jump over my shield, crash through my approach, or just rush away and reset. Maybe I just need more time with the game, but that and his Diddy was just, ugh.

Tilts, Dash Attack, Up Smash, and Shield Grab are your friends vs. Sonic.

A big new thing to note for Smash 4 is that basically everyone is most vulnerable right as they are landing.

 

[Mr. Bones]

These moves have invincibility on the limbs you're hitting with:

Jabs
Forward Tilt
Down Tilt
Up Tilt
Up Air
Neutral Air
Forward Smash (smaller invincibility for the feet but still there)
Up Smash (Your ENTIRE Body is invincible while you're in the air for this.)

Don't listen to these guys about Klaw. XD It's difficult to do but you can still aerial Klaw on someone's shield while landing, I did it several times in tournament. You just have to be careful about when/where you klaw since going off stage with it is bad now. >_> (You die before the opponent) It's still a good way to catch them off guard. Also, when landing, if you Klaw JUST before you hit the ground, it'll cancel all landing lag and you can act immediately when you hit the ground. You can still use Fire Breath to cover your ass if you mix it up with a wave bounce Fire sometimes. Otherwise, go for the ledge whenever you can if you're having a hard time hitting solid ground. You can still bomb to the ledge to punish aggressive aerial pursuers. Never Dair or Down-B onto the stage directly. Ever. They should be used as neutral game mix-ups and not when you're in a defensive situation.

Also, if you Dair immediately after being hit by significant hitstun, you'll fall slowly with the Dair and can use it to float to the ledge while keeping out a hitbox that can still kill.

Your best friends in neutral game are Jabs, Fire, and F-tilt(usually pivot to catch a roll). Up-B too if you're against a roll-happy opponent. Up-B is still a magnificent punish when you time it right. Just don't rely on it as heavily as you would in past iterations of the game. It's still miles better than D-Smash and can kill at later percentages if it's fresh. You can still play an aggressive game with this Bowser by forcing people into defensive situations with your presence. Just running up to many people will make them want to roll on reflex. Running up and throwing out Jab 1 uses very little commitment and is a great poke. You can also grab many people out of the first jab. Even if they don't roll, you can simply size them up and stay just out of their range or throw in a grounded Fire Breath. Up-Throw into Fair is guaranteed at 0 % up until about 40% depending on the character.

Pivot Grab's range is so gravy and can be used while retreating and mixed up with Pivot F-Tilt.

Fair, Bair, and Uair are wonderful off-stage edge guard tools. Bowser is still great at edgeguarding; he can leap out with his first jump and go PRETTY deep and swat people into the blastzone with Fair and make it back with second jump+Up B. (You can mash B several times to rise higher.) Bair will kill earlier if you can do a RAR offstage and read their trajectory pretty well. Or you can get them off the top with Uair, which comes out very quickly now and still kills fairly well.

Down-tilt is great for onstage edgeguarding, or you can chase an enemy into the air, bait out air-dodges and hit them with D-tilt when you both land. It hits really hard and I always keep it fresh and use it to kill with a read.

I've got to run into town but I'll post more after this. EDIT: Also, D-smash is okay to use sometimes. But it's only good for a hard read and attempt to kill. There isn't much use in throwing it out in the neutral game.

(also you can fight Rosaluma with Bowser. You just have to jab a lot. lol. More on that later)

EDIT: Basically keep an eye out for Star Bits/Dash Attack/Luma Shot(Is that what neutral-B is called?). Shield her Dash Attack and punish with some jabs. Jab to punish rolls, etc. Jab whenever Luma's in the area. You can catch both of them and wrack up damage on Luma. Just play patiently and punish her moves; watch out for her Nair approach. Everything else is pretty much bait and punish. You can rush her to provoke an action and go from there. I used to think that Rosaluma was almost impossible, but I haven't even lost to great ones in a while. Fire is good as an aerial approach if they're charging Luma, jump towards them and angle the flame down; it should catch both of them and wrack up more damage. Just keep jabbing and watch out for rolls/jumps. Don't challenge her Uair, Utilt, Dair. Bait them out instead and punish afterwards. When you get her off stage, go after her and see how she reacts. If they Up-B early or throw out an attack to try and stop you. Keep in mind what they do and learn to edgeguard them appropriately. It's quite possible to bat them to their death with Fair if you can catch them.
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I mentioned wavebounce Fire Breath earlier. Practice with it as much as you can. It helps when playing footsies.

Jabs can destroy fireballs, missiles, Loid, arrows, and other medium/weak projectiles I'm sure. (haven't tested all of them) So you can Jab to cover the option of them approaching or using a projectile. This is all I can think about for now. But I'll eventually be gathering all of my info and making a Bowser guide. Yay.

Last thing, just don't Klaw someone on your last stock if they're in the percent lead. Then you die. But Klaw is fine as long as you have more stocks than them/the same stock as long as it isn't your last stock. Because Nintendo is stupid.

 

[B!squick]

@ Mr. Bones

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Klaw actually cancels any landing lag. If I recall correctly and if it works the same way it did in Brawl, Klaw has, like, 1 frame of lag when landing, plus the default landing lag of falling (3 for short hop height and 6 for full hop?). In Brawl you could jump before even touching the ground which did in fact make it lagless and you had Klaw's giant grabbox and grab armor protecting you while you did it regardless of whether you jumped or not.

In this game it may only be 1 frame or so still but it's 1 frame of basically nothing that can potentially kill you in the wrong situation.

 

[Mr. Bones]

@ Mr. Bones

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Klaw actually cancels any landing lag. If I recall correctly and if it works the same way it did in Brawl, Klaw has, like, 1 frame of lag when landing, plus the default landing lag of falling (3 for short hop height and 6 for full hop?). In Brawl you could jump before even touching the ground which did in fact make it lagless and you had Klaw's giant grabbox and grab armor protecting you while you did it regardless of whether you jumped or not.

In this game it may only be 1 frame or so still but it's 1 frame of basically nothing that can potentially kill you in the wrong situation.

Well. I don't know exact frame data for it, but I've been able to time it so that I Klaw just before hitting the ground without any animation and start running immediately, without the "Oooow, I landed from really high uuuuuuup" animation for landing. :O

 

[B!squick]

Well, we wont know for sure until we get some frame data. I haven't checked the big huge list being worked on in Competitive for a few days, maybe it has Bowser info now.

 

[S_B]

On another note, I bombed onto a shield twice today without breaking them either time (from the air, and both hitboxes DEFINITELY hit).

Does bomb only break shields if used from the ground and the initial hit damages the shield as well?

 

[Netherfall]

I've had it work from the air just fine. I think it just depends on where you hit their shields, although it could be due to them shielding moments before I descend. Does anyone know where exactly you need to hit to guarantee a break every time?

 

[B!squick]

I don't think even grounded Bomb breaks a fresh shield. Might be character dependent though. Not all shields are created equal.

 

[Ranias]

I've had it work from the air just fine. I think it just depends on where you hit their shields, although it could be due to them shielding moments before I descend. Does anyone know where exactly you need to hit to guarantee a break every time?

Yeah. You need align Bowser's center to the top of the shield. It like hits twice or something and breaks the shield.

Don't listen to these guys about Klaw. XD It's difficult to do but you can still aerial Klaw on someone's shield while landing, I did it several times in tournament. You just have to be careful about when/where you klaw since going off stage with it is bad now. >_> (You die before the opponent) It's still a good way to catch them off guard. Also, when landing, if you Klaw JUST before you hit the ground, it'll cancel all landing lag and you can act immediately when you hit the ground.

Meanie, lol. I forgot about the Klaw on shield though.

 

[S_B]

I don't think even grounded Bomb breaks a fresh shield. Might be character dependent though. Not all shields are created equal.

Yeah, it didn't break DK's shield (and I think the other was Link), but he might have more shield because he's a heavyweight?

All I know for certain is that I hate aerial bomb more than ever (since I thought an opponent shielding meant a GUARANTEED break before). I wish down+B in the air made Bowser belch a fireball downward or something...

 

[B!squick]

Even if it did guarantee breaks, Aerial Bomb is probably one of the easiest moves in the game to spot dodge, roll away from, or other wise avoid. That and Flare Blitz.

 

[Anragon]

Even if it did guarantee breaks, Aerial Bomb is probably one of the easiest moves in the game to spot dodge, roll away from, or other wise avoid. That and Flare Blitz.

inb4 charizard mains war

 

[Mr. Bones]

inb4 charizard mains war

K. Every time they Flare Blitz, block it and get a free F-smash. Done.

Unless they're spectacular...in which case...just play well and do good m8.

 

[S_B]

Even if it did guarantee breaks, Aerial Bomb is probably one of the easiest moves in the game to spot dodge, roll away from, or other wise avoid. That and Flare Blitz.

Exactly.

It's just a terrible move, really: horribly predictable, easily avoided and even if you ARE caught on the ground below it, just spot dodge so the first hit doesn't land and take the 2nd hit and you'll be JUST fine, since the 2nd hit is nothing compared to the 1st.

I wish it got DK's down+B treatment and did something different in the air than it did on the ground...