My personal matchup thread

[Tyr_03]

Lucas's matchups based on my personal experiences in tournaments. I'm curious to see what people think since it disagrees so much with our current matchup thread. I don't use numbers because they don't mean anything since they aren't standardized. I will say that a 55-45 matchup is as good as even to me if that helps anyone. This list might give you an idea of why I think Lucas should be lower on the tier list lol.

Bowser - Neutral

Captain Falcon - Advantage

Diddy Kong - Disadvantage

Donkey Kong - Disadvantage

Falco - Disadvantage

Fox - Disadvantage

Game and Watch - Neutral

Ganondorf - Advantage

Ice Climbers - Disadvantage

Ike - Neutral

Jigglypuff - Disadvantage

King Dedede - Disadvantage

Kirby - Disadvantage

Link - Advantage

Lucario - Disadvantage

Luigi - Neutral

Mario - Disadvantage

Marth - Disadvantage

Metaknight - Disadvantage

Ness - Disadvantage

Olimar - Neutral

Peach - Disadvantage

Pikachu - Neutral

Pit - Disadvantage

PT - Disadvantage

ROB - Disadvantage

Samus - Disadvantage

Sheik - Disadvantage

Snake - Disadvantage

Sonic - Neutral

Toon Link - Disadvantage

Wario - Disadvantage

Wolf - Disadvantage

Yoshi - Neutral

Zelda - Advantage

ZSS - Neutral

Discuss

 

[Rachmaninav89]

I'm curious now, why is mr. Game and watch neutral? It'd be cool to know =D

 

[soccerdude7200]

you are quite the pessimist my friend...

 

[Tyr_03]

Even with bucket braking, Mr. Game and Watch dies early. Also Lucas can actually shieldgrab some of Game and Watches aerials. Game and Watch can't really gimp you if you space well and recover carefully. You can prevent him from being able to ever use his bucket to stop your camping. You can avoid all of his smash attacks as long as you're careful leaving him with only his Fair to kill you with.

It's one of few matchups where once both players know the matchup it's really all about who outplays the other. If you don't know the matchup and they do, you will get wrecked. If you know the matchup and they don't, they will get wrecked. In aerial priority the two characters are relatively evenly matched based on spacing and timing. Ground to ground combat Game and Watch has an advantage with longer ranging tilts and a good grab game but Lucas generally beats Game and Watch when Game and Watch has to approach from the air with shieldgrabs, Uairs that trade hits or beat Dair and even smash attacks if Game and Watch gets predictable with his approaches. The one thing that Game and Watch has that is tough for Lucas to deal with is his Bair so you have to space accordingly.

I honestly think he is a matchup that we initially greatly misunderstood much like the King Dedede matchup. This is all just opinion though.

 

[ZMan]

disadvantage
wario (rather go d3)
snake (i have to go d3)
dekar's gay a$$ diddy (i'll beat you one day vile fiend!)
marth(once again, d3 is my answer to this roy wannabe)
mk (of course, not sure if i should go d3 or lucas or even lolimar in this matchup)

advantage-
link
gdorf
falcon (until he grab releases, lol)
fox
d3 (i know most of his tricks anyway)
pit (i fight pits most of the time)
pika
jiggs
lucarihomo (boring as hell to fight against, would rather go d3 and wop this pos mewtwo wannabe)

everyone else is even, would rather go d3, or haven't foughten yet.

 

[Levitas]

I most disagree with samus and falco, but this is probably one of the least tinted perspectives given on the matchups from lucas's perspective yet.

Also, I'm not entirely convinced on G&W just yet, though NOJ has always been a higher level player and it's been some time since I played in tournaments.

 

[vato_break]

Disadvantage vs. mario? you must of been playing agianst boss or something.

 

[Rachmaninav89]

Thanks! I haven't played many game and watches, and the ones I have played I beat because they just spammed donwsmash and down air. haha.

 

[Tyr_03]

I think Samus has the advantage because if she spams missiles enough it makes it really tough for Lucas to do...anything. I feel like a defensive Samus can beat Lucas.

I'm pretty cofident that Falco has the advantage on Lucas. The more I play that matchup, the more I feel like Falco can limit all of our approaches. Falco generally beats Lucas in the air and has a better ground game with his chaingrab and other tools. I feel like you have to outplay Falco players, often by playing very defensively and reading their bad habits.

I'd really like to play NOJ to see how I do against him. I've never gotten the chance yet.

Mario has a lot of tools against Lucas.

 

[GotenOnNimbus]

I'm curious, disadvantage against ROB? I've generally had a fairly easy time against him, mainly because a lot of them seem to have the habit of Dodge->Dsmash. Or Dodge period.

 

[Chuee]

Are you SURE you aren't counting 55-45 as even? I don't think that many of lucas' matchups are 60-40 or worse ._.

 

[Luur3]

For the life of me, I am HORRIBLE against Link. I dont know why, but I just get wrecked by him. Toon Link I can handle though. Hmm

 

[Tyr_03]

Matchup ratios are essentially meaningless because there is no standardization. What 60-40 means to you could be entirely different from what it means to me. So I can't really answer that question. Merely as a reference point I stated that what people generally consider 55-45, I generally consider to be the same as even.

If I said that I think Lucas has the disadvantage in a matchup, it's because that's what I think. It's really all about opinion and these are the conclusions I've drawn based on my personal experiences.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

My changes to your list based on my experiences.

Mario - even or slight advantage

Toon link - even

Falco - I'm not sure about him.

Fox - even.

Diddy - even

Wario - If it weren't for GR even, but...

Wolf - even.

Samus - Eveeennnnn.

ROB - even or slight disadvantage.

Pit - even or slight disadvantage

Jiggz - definitely even. just don't land on her with Dair.

Ike - advantage

He has so many even matchups. =/

or maybe I'm just that much better than the poeple I play. *shrugs*

 

[prOAPC]

i think the list on the matchup thread is better

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Nah. matchup thread is outdated. Our worst matchups are Marth and snake.

 

[Chuee]

Our worst matchups are Marth and snake.

or possibly mk.

 

[CRASHiC]

MK? With his slow aerial speed, just play keep a way till he gets frustrated.
Does dair outrange his upair? If so, then if you play right, he shouldn't be able to touch you.

 

[MJG]

MK? With his slow aerial speed, just play keep a way till he gets frustrated.
Does dair outrange his upair? If so, then if you play right, he shouldn't be able to touch you.

I'm pretty sure mks up air comes out in 3 frames or faster, destroying any chances of avoiding it even if u air dodge it. And not to mention that it is a disjointed hitbox. It might beat up air but who knows

 

[Chuee]

MK? With his slow aerial speed, just play keep a way till he gets frustrated.
Does dair outrange his upair? If so, then if you play right, he shouldn't be able to touch you.

Mk can just dash PS PKF and Dair may outrange it but it doesn't outprioritize it.

 

[CRASHiC]

See, it doesn't matter how fast it comes out, because if you outrange it, he can't hit you, but you can hit him as you travel over him, getting some damage on him, and repositioning yourself to play keep away once again.

I need to know a few things, sorry for being noobish for a second, but I need to know what moves beat out tornado.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

or possibly mk.

Not at all. DDD is harder than MK. Once DDD learns the matchup it sucks. Bair > everything we have.

MK? With his slow aerial speed, just play keep a way till he gets frustrated.
Does dair outrange his upair? If so, then if you play right, he shouldn't be able to touch you.

Uair > Dair. His aerial mobility sucks =/

I'm pretty sure mks up air comes out in 3 frames or faster, destroying any chances of avoiding it even if u air dodge it. And not to mention that it is a disjointed hitbox. It might beat up air but who knows

No.

Mk can just dash PS PKF and Dair may outrange it but it doesn't outprioritize it.

True, but it won't get punished, unless your spacing sucks. Our dair gets ***** by Uair lol.

See, it doesn't matter how fast it comes out, because if you outrange it, he can't hit you, but you can hit him as you travel over him, getting some damage on him, and repositioning yourself to play keep away once again.

I need to know a few things, sorry for being noobish for a second, but I need to know what moves beat out tornado.

Usmash, Fsmash, Dsmash, anything from the top, pk fire, Tail of PKT, and PK freeze. Tornado is no problem just his range. and GR stuff.

it's only a slight disadvantage IMO.

 

[lil cj]

Nah. matchup thread is outdated. Our worst matchups are Marth and snake.

What about DK?
Its been debated on for a while now
with no determining ratio
I find him to be very difficult for Lucas
more so than Snake imo.
He outranges everything Lucas has
and can KO him easily.

or possibly mk.

MK is pretty easy once you know the matchup
Fair and dsmash work well against him.
Just dont get gimped by him and you
shouldnt have any problems

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

What about DK?
Its been debated on for a while now
with no determining ratio
I find him to be very difficult for Lucas
more so than Snake imo.
He outranges everything Lucas has
and can KO him easily.




MK is pretty easy once you know the matchup
Fair and dsmash work well against him.
Just dont get gimped by him and you
shouldnt have any problems

nair works beest against MK, since he's so short =/

DK is easier than snake.

DK has to grab us to kill -> not easy for him.

Snake -> utilt or GR utilt. his GR ftilt > DK's GR anything.

He can make us get grabbed with stupid stuff. It's almost impossible to approach snake. we can't outcamp him.

DK. possible approach and camping.

Snake is our worst or second worst IMO. only reason I win against them is snake sucks at landing.

DDDs that knowthe matchup are hard too. Bair. Bair. Grab. CG. GR dtilt =/

 

[Tyr_03]

lol the original matchup thread is ****ing awful. It's ridiculous and based off a lot of assumptions we made a very long time ago.

PF, I think you're just a little too optimistic as well lol.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Lol. Maybe. I'll only change my opinion on Diddy, Wolf, and maybe toon link. oh and jiggz.

 

[Tyr_03]

I'm surprised that you think we have the advantage/even against Pit more than any other. He's one of few characters who can actually reliably gimp our recovery.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Noooo. we're at a slight disadvantage lol.

And, That was the main reason why. multi jumps, fast controllable projectile, and that d*** shield give us a hard time.

at best we're even. Same with ROB.

 

[Overswarm]

I'm curious, disadvantage against ROB? I've generally had a fairly easy time against him, mainly because a lot of them seem to have the habit of Dodge->Dsmash. Or Dodge period.

He has some experience playing against ROBs that know more than "spot dodge d-smash".

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Pit beats us lol. I actually got gimped. I forgot how that felt lol. what a weird char...

 

[Tyr_03]

On stage I think Lucas is even or maybe even at the advantage against ROB. But offstage, whether we're edgeguarding or being edgeguarded, there's not much we can do.

 

[VideoKidHEERO]

Game and Watch - Neutral

Seriously?
Seriously?

I don't even know where to begin on this.
Thank god this is just an opinion...

I think I'm gonna vomit if I keep thinking about this.
/leaves

 

[Noraa]

rob beats lucas....tilts, fair, neutral a.....its like 55-45

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Game and Watch - Neutral

Seriously?
Seriously?

I don't even know where to begin on this.
Thank god this is just an opinion...

I think I'm gonna vomit if I keep thinking about this.
/leaves

You probably just suck at the matchup.

rob beats lucas....tilts, fair, neutral a.....its like 55-45

That's what I think. it's fairly even, though. Juggling him is pretty easy tbh.

 

[VideoKidHEERO]

Maybe we should all just take the time to actually work on the match-up thread and update it.
We shouldn't just keep theorizing on this thread and waste time here when we can be getting something done on the official match-up threat.

Yay, unorganized boards :3

 

[Gunblade789]

I have to agree with Heero on this. GnW can do too much against lucas. what do u do against his nair??? the turtle??? u wanna fill the bucket with Pk fire??? go ahead!!! what do u approach with, nair??? yeah GnW dies early but if you are facing a GnW that actually can space and play smart, Lucas has no chance. yes I have mained lucas for a little bit. and me and Heero are like the only people in NJ that play the character so we actually have some type of competion to face with Lucas and we see how bad he is when playing against top notch players who know what they are doing with their characters.

 

[Levitas]

or we could replace the other thread with this and therefore this would be the official one.

 

[VideoKidHEERO]

I have to agree with Heero on this. GnW can do too much against lucas. what do u do against his nair??? the turtle??? u wanna fill the bucket with Pk fire??? go ahead!!! what do u approach with, nair??? yeah GnW dies early but if you are facing a GnW that actually can space and play smart, Lucas has no chance. yes I have mained lucas for a little bit. and me and Heero are like the only people in NJ that play the character so we actually have some type of competion to face with Lucas and we see how bad he is when playing against top notch players who know what they are doing with their characters.

Or we just suck.
****, I get ***** by top players like Anti, Shadow, and M2K.

 

[Gunblade789]

Or we just suck.
****, I get ***** by top players like Anti, Shadow, and M2K.

u mean u suck....=]

 

[clowsui]

lmao at gunblade's east coast arrogance

you're not the only region with good players, idiot