My Competitive Pet Peeve: Last-Second No Contest (Surrender)

[ParanoidDrone]

No contesting in Smash 4 also stops anyone from being able to save the replay. Pause should be set to off anyway, but no contesting should not be allowed in tournaments as players cannot refuse to have their matches recorded (M2K clause)

M2K clause? I feel like I missed a reference here.

 

[Raijinken]

Not sure about Smash 4 but people did this in Melee because it was faster to get to CSS and back into battle. Sounds like in Smash 4 this could be true also, but it also blocks replay saving so I guess that kinda sucks too.

Given the confirmation screen and the general loading delay as Smash4 enters the No Contest screen, it's entirely a matter of how close to the end the quit was.

If it's after the character is already flying toward the blast line, it's not going to save time, and may take more (haven't timed this, honestly, but the time it takes for No Contest to load in feels really long in Smash4). If it's well before that, it's more of a surrender and will indeed save time.

 

[Teshie U]

M2K clause? I feel like I missed a reference here.

Early in Brawl's life, M2K tried to stop TOs from recording his matches because he didn't want people copying him or studying him I guess. Many TOs added a rule that said participants cannot refuse to have matches recorded or documented.

 

[AccountsDept]

I could not agree more.

This is dickish. In friends, for comedic value so we can laugh at the salty guy of the match, sure, whatever, I don't give a ****, but having the sheer audacity to deny my rightfully ****in'-earned win in the face of defeat (in tournaments) just to soften the blow to your delicate ego, **** you.

The infamous "GAME!" at the end of each match matters so much to what the game feels like and is, and is most of the satisfaction you get from a win. When I hear it after I've styled on somebody, I feel pumped and satisfied with my victory, and if the opposite happened, I'd let my opponent do the same. It is disrespectful.

 

[Pazx]

I could not agree more.

This is ****ish. In friends, for comedic value so we can laugh at the salty guy of the match, sure, whatever, I don't give a ****, but having the sheer audacity to deny my rightfully ****in'-earned win in the face of defeat (in tournaments) just to soften the blow to your delicate ego, **** you.

The infamous "GAME!" at the end of each match matters so much to what the game feels like and is, and is most of the satisfaction you get from a win. When I hear it after I've styled on somebody, I feel pumped and satisfied with my victory, and if the opposite happened, I'd let my opponent do the same. It is disrespectful.

This is not a personal attack towards you in any way, but I have to say the anger you've expressed in this post is... quite funny, really. If people are quitting to elicit a reaction, after reading this post they'd do it more often.

I personally think a no-contest is LESS anti-climactic than a star KO and coming from Melee when players tend to quit the second they get hit by a strong move I don't think it's inherently disrespectful, it's like "You got me, I'm done".

 

[AccountsDept]

This is not a personal attack towards you in any way, but I have to say the anger you've expressed in this post is... quite funny, really. If people are quitting to elicit a reaction, after reading this post they'd do it more often.

I personally think a no-contest is LESS anti-climactic than a star KO and coming from Melee when players tend to quit the second they get hit by a strong move I don't think it's inherently disrespectful, it's like "You got me, I'm done".

I forgot the forum had censors, and it sorta does make the message seem miles more childish and actually highlights the anger.

It was more annoyance at the people who went "oh, it's just a /game/", because, as think and others have said, if we want this to be an esport, we have to act like it.

I don't quite see how a star KO is anti-climactic. Infact, I think it really only exists to provide enough time for an endgame taunt. (which wets the panties of the crowd quite, even in games on PS1 in melee where two players are camping in and outside the pit, weirdly)

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Pausing should be off as the primary solution I agree; the secondary solution was also given in the original post of "not shaking his/her hand". It is pretty rude and generally a bit unsportsmanlike even if it causes few practical problems (now if they do it with the clear purpose of preventing a replay save, that may warrant sanctions, but most people honestly aren't that smart). I've only had it happen to me a few times in practice; I just look at it as a passive-aggressive version of my opponent loudly yelling curse words in salty rage over losing. We don't need rules against people doing that, but we should definitely agree that people who do are doofuses and should get unkind looks and other signs of social disapproval for their lousy behavior.

 

[Shaya]

In friendly situations I despise it (because I never bother to 'rage quit' out) because over the course of a session, the player who's always quitting out isn't giving me a stock tally at the bottom. Warps perception of who was winning/how games were going in hindsight.

Stat restrictions + lack of replays is another big peeve.

 

[Johnknight1]

No contesting in Smash 4 also stops anyone from being able to save the replay.

Seeing as how many tournament setups have recording equipment and how many are livestreamed, I think in those situations this point has no value.

I understand the rest of it though.

Still, if people really want to stop rage quitting then turn the pause button off.

It's not that hard. It's literally less than 10 clicks. You can take responsibility for it. NO JOHNS.

 

[Teshie U]

Seeing as how many tournament setups have recording equipment and how many are livestreamed, I think in those situations this point has no value.

I understand the rest of it though.

Still, if people really want to stop rage quitting then turn the pause button off.

It's not that hard. It's literally less than 10 clicks. You can take responsibility for it. NO JOHNS.

Uh, no. Its extremely rare to go to a tournament where even half the setups have live recording. Many MAJOR tournaments have live recording on one setup, but a major tournament probably has over a dozen other setups with no equipment to record at the tournament,

Pause should be off and no contesting isn't a reason to DQ someone, but it should be noted that people can and will abuse the ability to destroy evidence of their failures.

 

[Ticker]

Honestly, why does it matter? You still won, and you both get out of that match quicker. I've done it before, not because I'm salty or anything, it's simply "Damn dude, you got me". I'm not doing to be "defiant" in the face of a loss or take away your precious little head on your KO counter (why does this matter?). Just get over it, you still won.

 

[CorruptoR]

I could not agree more.

This is ****ish. In friends, for comedic value so we can laugh at the salty guy of the match, sure, whatever, I don't give a ****, but having the sheer audacity to deny my rightfully ****in'-earned win in the face of defeat (in tournaments) just to soften the blow to your delicate ego, **** you.

The infamous "GAME!" at the end of each match matters so much to what the game feels like and is, and is most of the satisfaction you get from a win. When I hear it after I've styled on somebody, I feel pumped and satisfied with my victory, and if the opposite happened, I'd let my opponent do the same. It is disrespectful.

Woaw why are people so butthurt over something so insignificant. You act like people who do this do it just to spite the winner. In reality I would guess that 95%+ of people do it just to move on to the next game and stay focused.

You're the one who sounds childish for caring so much over something so trivial. If the opponent shakes your hand at the end of the set there's nothing disrespectful going on.

Who cares if there's no victory screen? You both know who won and that's all that counts. In Starcraft people surrender, in Dota people surrender and even in League they do it. The only reason to not surrender is when you still have a chance of winning even if its small. When someone surrenders he's telling you that you beat him and he recognizes it yet you act like its the complete opposite. Just because in Smash its not technically a surrender it doesn't change that its treated the same way.

Grow up and learn to enjoy your victory without the need of a meaningless victory screen.

 

[Ticker]

Exactly what I was thinking, complaining about something insignificant like seeing the winning screen is more childish than what you are complaining about.

 

[Octagon]

I hate it when people do that, like just lose with pride and like a professional.

 

[Ticker]

I hate it when people do that, like just lose with pride and like a professional.

They still lost and as long as they shake your hand, they lost with pride

 

[Octagon]

They still lost and as long as they shake your hand, they lost with pride

I guess, but there is no real point to surrendering right before you lose. (Avatar is the best show of all time)

 

[Ticker]

(Avatar is the best show of all time)

So sad the show is finally over =[

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

It's actually slower. There is no reason except an overabundance of salt. If being rude is your intent keep doing it, but don't pretend there's some kind of pride to what is pretty much a salty ragequit.

 

[Pazzo.]

Unsportsmanlike conduct annoys me as well.

Just except inevitable defeat just as you would victory.

 

[Thinkaman]

I would agree that surrendering isn't just spiteful if this actually saved time.

But as many people and I have stated, it takes longer.

It's indefensible.

----------

As for complaining about something insignificant being childish, again:

No one puts significance on the victory screen or little KO symbols.

You make it significant when you go out of your way and make things take longer to avoid them.


It's like burning a national flag. It really is just a piece of cloth, but the person burning it is the one making it into something significant and making a big deal about it. No one cares until they start grandstanding over it.

You don't get to burn a flag, and when someone says "Hey bro, that's rude, maybe don't do that at my social event?", reply with "OMG IT'S JUST A PIECE OF FABRIC GET OVER YOURSELF."

If it wasn't significant, they wouldn't be going out of their way to do it, nor would they care when asked to desist!

 

[Octavium]

It's like burning a national flag. It really is just a piece of cloth, but the person burning it is the one making it into something significant and making a big deal about it. No one cares until they start grandstanding over it.

You don't get to burn a flag, and when someone says "Hey bro, that's rude, maybe don't do that at my social event?", reply with "OMG IT'S JUST A PIECE OF FABRIC GET OVER YOURSELF."

If it wasn't significant, they wouldn't be going out of their way to do it, nor would they care when asked to desist!

Honestly its a great analogy, and I share the same pet-peeve as you do.

But some will say the surrendering can't be compared to the magnitude of the analogy, as a National flag is very sacred for most compared to a victory screen.

But its all up to perception, some players don't care for the victory screen, some do. I wouldn't give two ****s for somebody burning another country's flag in front of me, but I'd think its immature. If it were my country's flag I'd be pretty frustrated.

I perceive the victory screen as a form of prestige, seeing it taken away from me when deserving it. Is enough for me to disrespect the player I'm playing with.

 

[Luco]

It bugs me as well to some extent, but I like to think the other person means nothing by it.

It's just hard to tell is all. At the end of the day I prefer the 'game' and victory screen, but I don't think I could bring myself to be mad or even treat someone differently because of it. =3

 

[Judo777]

Not in disagreement or anything, just curious - what is the opinion people have on the act of the winner pausing upon winning a match or taking a stock, like so?

Who would possibly do such a thing???







For real tho mine was on accident......



Also unfortunately honor went out the door when the "play to win" slogan became accepted.

 

[memk]

Man this thread is nothing but a bunch of new kids complaining about saving time when they themselves haven't done anything to test this.

 

[Green Spiny]

I agree, it's disrespectful to LRAS. But really, alll No Contest means is "I don't need to see the victory screen, it's no contest that you won this one." Still, it's disappointing to spectators, winners wanting to see that screen, and most importantly, it disables replays. It's worth that one extra second during setup to disable pause.

 

[Ticker]

Spectators don't care about seeing the winning screen, they care about watching the match. They know that when that one player lands that killing blow and the opponent pauses, quits, and shakes his hand, they know who won.

 

[danzibr]

I used to play a guy in MtG who would concede when he thought he couldn't win. Very irritating.

 

[Teshie U]

Who would possibly do such a thing???







For real tho mine was on accident......



Also unfortunately honor went out the door when the "play to win" slogan became accepted.

I remember that incident. The way the TO handled it was pretty cowardly. While you were the crowd favorite and probably would have won with pause off, you did actually break the rules and should have forfeit automatically.

IIRC, you paused during the first hit of a multi-hit move that can be teched/DIed to avoid death.

As harsh as it may sound, people who no contest or pause have technically broken a rule and should be punished as such. Its really just up to the TO not to be a pansy about enforcing their own rules.

 

[Ticker]

It's also up to the player who was paused on whether he wants to enforce the rule

 

[Johnknight1]

Uh, no. Its extremely rare to go to a tournament where even half the setups have live recording. Many MAJOR tournaments have live recording on one setup, but a major tournament probably has over a dozen other setups with no equipment to record at the tournament,

Pause should be off and no contesting isn't a reason to DQ someone, but it should be noted that people can and will abuse the ability to destroy evidence of their failures.

If you really want to prevent the recordings of these failures, then don't fail by not turning pause off.

No Johns.

 

[Teshie U]

It's also up to the player who was paused on whether he wants to enforce the rule

Enforcing rules is actually not up to the player. TOs and refs are supposed to do that. Most of us are nice guys, but some people will abuse that to gain unfair advantages.

If you really want to prevent the recordings of these failures, then don't fail by not turning pause off.

No Johns.

Most pause rules state that if pause happens to be on for some reason, punishment is only warranted for the person pausing. If you mash like crazy and press buttons that you shouldn't, YOU should be careful with the rules.

I use wiimote and I have a pause button that cant be disabled. Think of how much stress I'm under man.

 

[Radirgy]

Rage Quitting is being a bad sport but on the upside by keeping in Rage Quitting we get to make fun of those who do it.

 

[Thinkaman]

Enforcing rules is actually not up to the player. TOs and refs are supposed to do that. Most of us are nice guys, but some people will abuse that to gain unfair advantages.

This.

The rules system should not encourage players to manipulate opponents for leniency under any circumstances. While rare in this context, this only leads to harassment and should not be allowed to manifest at all.

 

[The Slayer]

I find it childish in both ways. Yes, abusing the pause and quit function just so one's matches won't be recorded or "deny" ones victory screen is quite immature and disrespectful. On the other hand, the victor(s) raging over TOs and players speeding up the process for matches and the defeated party's inevitable loss is just making them look salty and a sore winner. Unless there's a clear rule to say you can record these matches to the console or not, it's hard to be disrespected from a no contest screen when it can go both ways.

 

[Thinkaman]

raging over TOs and players speeding up the process for matches

Ahhhh stop saying this!

It takes longer! How many times does this need to be said?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Ahhhh stop saying this!

It takes longer! How many times does this need to be said?

Maybe copypasta the thing you posted in the ruleset thread.

 

[Asdioh]

Just post video evidence if you want to convince people side-by-side, if possible.

 

[The Slayer]

Ahhhh stop saying this!

It takes longer! How many times does this need to be said?

It's actually shorter than 3-4 seconds. Either way, I still don't see it being a huge hassle than what most people make it out to be in this thread. But I guess there's something I don't know.

 

[Thinkaman]

By what? Two seconds? Either way, I still don't see it being a huge hassle than what most people make it out to be in this thread.

It's not a hassle so much as a really transparent excuse for rude behavior.

"Dude, I'm just saving you time. I'm just really committed to getting to the next match, and every second counts."

"Uh, it takes longer..."

"........dude, it's only like 2 extra seconds!"

 

[The Slayer]

It's not a hassle so much as a really transparent excuse for rude behavior.

"Dude, I'm just saving you time. I'm just really committed to getting to the next match, and every second counts."

"Uh, it takes longer..."

"........dude, it's only like 2 extra seconds!"

If your pride is hurt when someone denies your little victory screen, then that's a mental issue of yourself than anything.