Multishine: an extensive guide -updated 8/13/10

[Guzzler Guzzler]

So are the gifs gone forever or...?

 

[Stratocaster]

I still have them, they are just frame pictures, not gifs. Feel free to remind me if I don't soon.

 

[Commander]

I still have them, they are just frame pictures, not gifs. Feel free to remind me if I don't soon.

Are you going to reupload the pics?

 

[SpiderMad]

2nd and 3rd frames - very slight lag, no attack or reflection, the jump button can be pressed during these frames, but it won't take effect until frame 4

Conclusion/How to:
1)Hold down on the control stick and press B.
2)Press Y within the next 1/4 of a second,
3)press B EXACTLY 1/12 of a second after pressing Y.
4)Press Y within the next 1/4 of a second again, but not too soon or you'll double jump, though that shouldn't be a problem unless you are super fast.
5)Repeat steps 3 and 4 as long as you can.

Tips
The important motion is from Y to B
The B to Y motion has a wide window, as long as you don't press Y too soon and double jump you'll be fine, but there is only 1 frame for the B input! Thats only 1/60 of a second.

So the jump is buffered to take effect on frame 4 even if you pressed it on frame 2 or 3? What if you pressed it frame 1?

So wait is the Y to B motion a 1 frame (1/60 a second) input or a 5 frame input (1/12)? It mentions both?

 

[Stratocaster]

Yes, it is buffered to take effect on frame 4 (I believe this is only if you use up for jump and not Y or X because of how stick jumping has a buffer window. Frame 1 is too soon.

1 frame window to input B correctly
5 frames for the Y to B motion

Understand the difference?

 

[SpiderMad]

Tap jump has a buffer window? I thought it was only L/R+C-stick up, and I'm not sure if you have to hold the C-stick to get it to buffer the jump or just press it once and it'll save the input for when possible

The Conclusion/How to seems a little misleading, it mentions 1/12 and 1/4, not 1/60: but I'm guessing it's not talking about the frame window just the amount of time you have to wait before you reach the window?

 

[Stratocaster]

Tap jump's buffer window and R+c-stick jump buffer are very different.

Tap jump just gives a little room for error of about 2/3 frames. All this means is that if you are to press up a little too early it will likely still input. It's the same for a dash, except a dash I think only has 1 frame of buffer I think. (This is off the top of my head, but I have done a lot of frame-by-frame study so I think it's accurate). This is unlike the c-stick buffering, which you could hold for much before and it will buffer until the window is open.

BTW you may be confused as to how c-stick buffer works. You must hold shield and c-stick up, and you must go through shield for 1 frame. This doesn't apply to multishining because you cannot shield before the jump, so you cannot use shield + c-stick to buffer jump out of shield. Using up on the control stick is a little more forgiving about going too fast.

I think the how to is pretty clear. I that its 1/12 seconds AFTER, meaning it's an interval and not a window. This thread is 5 years old, and I haven't had any complaints before

 

[SpiderMad]

So if I'm in shield, and my shield gets hit by a falcon punch, at the very first few frames or so of shieldstun I press up on the C-stick: does it trigger the jump way later for me or I still have to be holding it? Same for if I rolled with C-stick or is Jump different?

Does Tap jump always have a small buffer window for things? Like if I input Tap jump 3 frames before my Up-smash ended. Did you say 2/3 frames because frames are relative or something I remember hearing?

 

[Oskurito]

I think the how to is pretty clear. I that its 1/12 seconds AFTER, meaning it's an interval and not a window. This thread is 5 years old, and I haven't had any complaints before

This is most likely about the last video I made lol, I think it all boils down to the fact the my english is not perfect and some of the words I use might not be a 100% accurate xD

 

[Stratocaster]

SpiderMad, you have to hold the C-stick until you are free to move (in your example, until hitstun is over). Don't take my work for it though, try it out. Try buffering a jump after a Falcon Punch. Falcon Punch, then hold L/R the C-stick up and then try it with letting go. You'll see that holding it will work, but if you let go you won't buffer it. It works on the same mechanic as buffering shield. Do an attack, then hold shield and you will shield ASAP. If you let go before you are free then you won't shield at all. It LITERALLY works on the same mechanic because to do the buffer jump you must FIRST shield, THEN jump. It's just you can shield for only 1 frame and barely see it.

I said 2/3 because I was unsure based on what I know. It is generally 3, but if you notice for a shine which doesn't hit anything you cannot input jump and frame 1. Meaning there's only 2 frames to buffer jump. I think it's an exception to the rule that you usually have 3 frames. If you hit with shine for instance, the frames look like this:

1. Hit
2. Hitlag
3. Hitlag
4. Hitlag
5. Hitlag (earliest Up can be inputted to buffer jump on 8)
6. Lag
7. Lag
8+ Jump out any time

I believe it works the same with anything, so if you did a tap jump right before your up smash ended (within 3 frames) then you should jump out the first available frame.

 

[SpiderMad]

Thanks, I tested out Tap jump myself and it seems you're right. You have to hold it though just like with C-stick, but unlike C-stick it'll only last for the 2 or 3 frames. It was 3 frames when I tested with side-b, it ends on frame 40 and I was able to pause on frame 36 and Frame Advance while holding Up to get the jump out on frame 40. I should have known frame 1 of down-b is impossible since you can't hold up on the joystick while you hold down. Debug Menu can't use C-stick so I can't test anything frame wise with that =(

Do you know how this guy was humanly possible to get consecutive MWs with Fox/Falco? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQNOD4cPTBo

Do you have any idea why Melee checks for jump button release to determine short hop a frame earlier than it possibly could have?

 

[Oskurito]

Do you know how this guy was humanly possible to get consecutive MWs with Fox/Falco? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQNOD4cPTBo

lol, I guess is just ridiculously fast thumb speed.

 

[Stratocaster]

There is a code which allows you to use c-stick in develop mode:
(though you can test out what you want without it...)

Normal C-Stick Functionality in Develop Mode [Updated]
-C-Stick additionally provides Master mode functionality while in Develop Mode
[Magus] [AR Codes for this function ported from 1.00 to other versions by StandardToaster]
-C-Stick no longer also toggles fixed camera mode
[Achilles]

AR & Gecko Codes (Top line is code for adding in C-stick attacks and second line is the code for disabling fixed camera)

Version 1.00
0406AD38 38000000
04030024 38000000
Version 1.01
0406AE48 38000000
040300A4 38000000
Version 1.02
0406AE90 38000000
040300A4 38000000
PAL
0406B574 38000000
040305D0 38000000

*Note*
For whatever reason, these codes do not work on Nana.....

Magus authored DOL edits which made the C-Stick provide attacks like normal in Develop Mode. Unfortunately [for competitive play], pressing the C-Stick would still toggle fixed camera mode (along with the attack). I authored these AR codes which removes the C-Stick toggling fixed camera mode, allowing normal versus matches in a competitive manner.

So this will give you the ability to play competitive versus matches with hitboxes/hurtboxes overlayed on top of the characters and a totally normal C-Stick, among other things (See a Debug Menu guide for everything you can do in Develop Mode). Do note that move staling still does not get applied in Develop Mode. Or you could scratch these AR codes and just put them in as DOL edits (I posted these offsets in the DOL Mod Thread)

I'm not sure what the acronym "MWs" is supposed to be, but I'm guesing from the video its Multishine Wavedashes. Double/triple shine really isn't that hard, and waveshining isn't too bad either. These are techniques that take practice, but I can do them and I'm really not super technical or anything. I can multishine wavedash, it's something worth practicing for shield pressure. I'm probably not as consistent as that guy, but once your hands learn the muscle memory and get the rhythm, you'd be surprised what you can do.

I don't know the reasoning behind why the game was coded. I wrote Sakurai about this issue, but he never wrote back (jk)

 

[SpiderMad]

Moonwalks, I've seen top players Moonwalk with Spacies but getting consecutive (two in a row like in the video) I haven't seen anyone else do

 

[Circle_Breaker]

So does anyone use tap jump to multi shine, then? Like just flicking up and then doing downB?

I use it for shine OoS and I can consistently do a single multishine that way, but no more. 2 shines is usually all I feel is very useful for shield pressure but more could be really flashy and intimidating, plus situationally useful. Not sure if I should prioritize it over practicing platform and ledge play, but if the motion is similar to fox's shdl I should learn it anyways.

 

[PCHU]

So does anyone use tap jump to multi shine, then? Like just flicking up and then doing downB?

I use it for shine OoS and I can consistently do a single multishine that way, but no more. 2 shines is usually all I feel is very useful for shield pressure but more could be really flashy and intimidating, plus situationally useful. Not sure if I should prioritize it over practicing platform and ledge play, but if the motion is similar to fox's shdl I should learn it anyways.

I've tried it and gotten a few decent results, but it really depends on how comfortable you are with it.
Sometimes I'll opt for it, but only as Falco since the timing feels a lot more tight as Fox and I sometimes end up firefoxing in practice.

I only slightly prefer it over traditional multishines (B and Y) due to the timing; it feels like I'm always guaranteed 2-3 shines when I do it this way.

 

[Crome]

I still have them, they are just frame pictures, not gifs. Feel free to remind me if I don't soon.

Are the links still broken or is it just me?

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

still broken

 

[Mikkelmann]

Thanks this really helps!

 

[VoltTurn]

Really helpful guide, especially for someone like me who is just now transitioning to falco from sheik. A double shine looks like it could be a relatively practical cross up option on shield

 

[DankLump]

How many frames more do u gain by multishining on the tree?