Mother's Boys - The Ness and Lucas FAQ

[Earthbound360]

IMO, the Yo-Yo Spike isn't very reliable. It only works when their edge invincibility frames wear off. But once you see that, go for for a Yo-Yo Spike!! It's worth a try and it couldn't hurt you.

No it doesnt. It works at more times than that.

 

[FireKirby7]

No it doesnt. It works at more times than that.

What, for edgeguarding? I just assumed, but does it hit during invin. frames? I never used YYS so I don't know much about it. Nor have I seen much others use it.

 

[Earthbound360]

The yo-yo can spike if you hang it and they ledgedrop or if they happen to get hit during that one frame in vulnerability during any basic ledge action. Also, it can spike those who dont auto-sweetspot like Sonic and Wario.

 

[FireKirby7]

Ooh. That's good to know.

 

[xoxokev]

For some reason, I notice that if you charge your yo-yo hanging off the ledge, your opponents will get popped up when they hit it. From most video's (EXCEPT THIS ONE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJHtfk8gK1U) I noticed it spikes for usmash when the yo-yo leaves the ground, and for dsmash when the yo-yo is returning to Ness. Any suggestions for a reliable yo-yo spike?

 

[PKSkyler]

so the yo yo spikes when you release it, or you hit um a certain way?

 

[xoxokev]

so the yo yo spikes when you release it, or you hit um a certain way?

I don't really know the exact mechanics of it, I think it only works when the opponent DI's into the stage after being hit with the yo-yo

 

[FireKirby7]

so the yo yo spikes when you release it, or you hit um a certain way?

Both hitboxes will pop them up, they just gotta be next to the ledge.
Or it can be bad DI.

 

[Noa.]

Does Ness tend to do well against big characters? Like DK and King Dedede. I want to know what matchups I should use Ness in.

 

[Aevin]

You mean Ness or Lucas? Personally, I think both boys do equally well against the larger characters, although I prefer Ness against Dedede and Lucas against DK. Ness's PK fire has cool potential against the waddle-dees, since you can get the fire pillar to execute without actually hitting your opponent. Lucas's can do that too, of course, but it's not nearly as cool. In DK's case, I think Lucas's faster moves are better for poking him out of his attacks. Still, I think either boy is a good match-up for big characters.

Also, absorbing Waddle-doo beams = <3

I should prob'ly update this old thing ...

 

[Earthbound360]

Lol Aevin's finally back. Nice new avy.

 

[Noa.]

Hmmm, so they do well against them? What are some of Ness's other good matchups. I would like to start using Ness in tourneys, cause he's so fun to use.

 

[Aevin]

I can't speak for everyone, but I like Ness against the space animals (because they're easy to spike and can't chase him out away from the stage much). Ness does badly against characters with multiple jumps and awesome recoveries that can keep poking him further from the stage until he's out of recovery range. Metaknight's a nightmare, and I personally have trouble with Kirby for the same reason.

 

[thesage]

Um what? Kirby is a problem because of his bair. DI can get you out of grab combos.

Falco has the advantage on Ness. Ness beats Fox though.

 

[Morrigan]

Peach - Ness
... many disadvantages, either. Her HORIZONTAL vertical recovery is incredible with her floating move, however her jumps are very short and her vertical recover isn't that great.

Minor error

 

[deaF mutE]

my opinion: lucas is a gay twist of ness

 

[Shaky]

What are the differences in the jabs of Ness and Lucas in terms of range and frames?

 

[FireKirby7]

Ness's jabs have more range than Lucas's jab. Slightly more.
Ness jab first hits on frame 3.
Lucas jab first hits on frame 2.

I like Lucas's jab more cuz of it's jab cancel properties. Does more damage too.

 

[Earthbound360]

And it has amazing priority and better knockback.
Ness' can jab lock tho.

 

[ViceGrip]

lucases jab hits BEHIND him wtf. Too good. Lucas has a slightttly better ground game than Ness just cause his jab, fsmash, and ftilt are better. other than that i wouldn't trade yoyo's or utilt/dtilt for lucas's stuff.

 

[Levitas]

Ness's jab hit behind him in melee, too.

The difference is that when lucas's 1st jab hits from behind, he pulls you in front of him to hit you will all three jabs, lol

I would definitely take ness's usmash, utilt, and dtilt over lucas's. For sure.

EB360, lucas's dtilt can jab lock, so I don't really see that as much of a plus.

Shaky, I'll add full jab data for both characters here in a sec.

Ness's jab
jab1:
hits on 3
duration 19
hitlag 5
blockhitlag 5
blockstun 0
sound on 3
holding a hits on 3 + 9N (N is an integer for incrementing the number of hits)

jab2:
Earliest start is jab1 frame 5
hits on 4
duration 20
hitla 4
blockhitlag 5
blockstun 0
sound on 4

jab3:
Earliest start is on jab2 frame 6
hits on 7
duration 30
hitlag 5
bockhitlag 7
blockstun 0
sound on 7

Lucas's jab
jab1:
hits on 2
duration 19
hitlag 5
blockhitlag 6
blockstun 0
sound on 2
holding a hits on 2+18N (N is the incrementing number again)

jab2:
Earliest start s on jab1 frame 7
hits on 4
duration 21
hitlag 5
blockhitlag7
blockstun 0
sound on 3

jab3:
Earliest start s on jab2 frame 8
hits on 7
duration 30
hitlag 6
blockhitlag 7
blockstun 0
sound on 5

 

[Xeedoc]

Amazing job.
I never saw anything about Ness on Lucas boards.
'Course i prolly didnt look hard enough.
<3 Ness and Lucas
(No homo/pedo)

 

[Earthbound360]

This was unstickied from the Lucas boards for not being updated enough.

 

[Morrigan]

Last edited by Aevin; 08-11-2008 at 08:20 PM.

 

[Xeedoc]

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr253/xeedoc/brawlzz.jpg

Thought you guys would enjoy some Texture Hacks.

 

[xoxokev]

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr253/xeedoc/brawlzz.jpg

Thought you guys would enjoy some Texture Hacks.

LOL 2 good!

 

[alexh714]

Pretty impressive guide. At first I thought it was a bad idea to put Lucas and Ness under the same guide. but it came out quite good comparing one to another. Also, Ness' back aerial its quite amazing while moving forward. You guys should try. It should work at least once or twice, because your opponent might not be expecting it.

I love Lucas' back aerial!!! It almost looks like a bicycle kick! haha. Its really fun to run after your opponent after you send' em flying, turn around, jump and perform a back aerial. I compare Lucas' back aerial to Ness' down aerial and I rather like Lucas' because it's a little faster. Just sharing my thoughts.

 

[Levitas]

last update was a LONG time ago. I'm unstickying this one in favor of ref's more recent guide.

 

[BAMF]

I'm not positive but lucas' fsmash seems to have a situational sweet spot I've caught people in rolls generally when they roll away where the stick seems to gain more distance than normal and a sweat spot like some kind of disjointed hit box. I've seen it ko at 70-80%

 

[Brinzy]

I believe Lucas's Fsmash is always disjointed and that there could've been DI involved to KO your opponents at that damages. Since they're rolling, they probably held the stick to the left or right, and that caused the Fsmash to send them almost completely horizontally, which would be why they died early.

 

[BAMF]

oh yea that makes sense than, so than the disjointed-ness wouldn't count as having a tip spot?