most underrated character in the game?

[Dry Bones]

i think it's primarily Yoshi versus Wario for most underrated character in brawl. really, i find yoshi to have good power, workable range, fast, heavy, and with a good projectile. the only bad thing i can think of is his somewhat unorthodox recovery...

what do you folks think?

 

[Red_Fog]

I'd have to agree with you. Yoshi ain't half bad. Hell, he's not bad at all. He's certainly able to hold his own against many of the more popular characters and I usually end up doing pretty good with him. Plus, u just gotta love when u manage to just grab the edge by throwing an egg. Most nerve racking thing I've ever done in this game, and the most desperate. Ok, well maybe not the most desperate, but still pretty cool. But, I'll agree wtih u and say that Yoshi is totally underrated

 

[Yoshi King]

Yeah, I'd say Yoshi has to take the cake. Most people are rating him as a lower tier character, when in reality he only has one awful matchup (against Zelda), and does fairly well against/doesn't have as much trouble against the rest of the cast.

 

[abit_rusty]

I'd give Yoshi the benefit of the doubt (that he's got potential) because I used to underrate Wario horribly, now he's become a pretty formidable secondary for me. Maybe I should check out Yoshi next... >.>

 

[Zench]

gah, who cares wich characer we use as long as we pown others sass.. there are way to manny topics on this subject

 

[ducky285]

Yoshi is cool and all but he has a few things going against him

- Lack of priority. It's bad. Against anyone with superior range or disjointed hitboxes, Yoshi will get eaten up. His b-air and down-b are likely the best priority moves he has and a lot of characters can hit him right through them.

- Not a lot of good matchups and quite a few bad ones. It looks like Olimar, Bowser and Ganon are the only characters who are at a disadvantage. Most characters have an advantage over our little green dino, especially the ones that are currently being used the most (Marth, Toon Link, Snake., MK etc...)

- Lack of reliable KO moves. He's not as bad as MK or Sonic but he only has a few kill moves and have to space them properly most of the time. It's hard to land a kill move with Yoshi against a skilled player.

- Below average recovery. It's not horrible but it's nothing to write home about. It's easy to intercept/edgeguard and it's about as good as Mario's Cape in Melee.

- Lack of a "edge". Yoshi does nothing exceptionally well. He's rather well-balanced but nothing about him stands out. There are many characters who have one or two things they can do better than any other character but sadly Yoshi lacks that.

Now I LOVE playing Yoshi because he's fun but I'm probably not going to have him be my #1 main. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from using him but knowing your character's weaknesses allows you to formulate a game plan. To be effective with Yoshi you have to play smart. For example, if you try to rushdown on Marth you WILL get murdered. He outranges, outprioritizes and outpowers you. However, Yoshi has a projectile, which is always handy against Marth.

 

[Calixto]

I wouldn't say he's lacking in KO moves. All his smashes, his Uair and his Fair are all good finishers (the aerial ones not so much on the characters with disjointed hitboxes).


Additionally, he's also one of the heavier characters in the game (last I checked, which was a while ago actually) while still retaining much of his mobility.

 

[ducky285]

F-smash is hard to land
D-smash isn't a KO move until like 180% and that's without DI :/
U-smash is good
F-air is best used as an edgeguard or spike. Who uses this on the stage anyway, especially for KOs? It's slower than f-smash!
U-air rules but has a narrow hitbox.
You forgot n-air, which is quick but doesn't kill until higher percentages

So yeah, I think he lacks reliable KO moves.

And Yoshi is in the third heaviest class along with Wolf and Wario. Not bad.

 

[Meta Dude]

Yoshi does nothing exceptionally well. He's rather well-balanced but nothing about him stands out.

probably the only thing i agree with.

 

[bigman40]

F-smash is hard to land
D-smash isn't a KO move until like 180% and that's without DI :/
U-smash is good
F-air is best used as an edgeguard or spike. Who uses this on the stage anyway, especially for KOs? It's slower than f-smash!
U-air rules but has a narrow hitbox.
You forgot n-air, which is quick but doesn't kill until higher percentages

So yeah, I think he lacks reliable KO moves.

And Yoshi is in the third heaviest class along with Wolf and Wario. Not bad.

Then you are one who does not like a challenge. I can land most of those as long as I can setup my opponent for it. Nothing is easy to land except Mk with his super speed smashes. I'll admit, the f-air is horrible compared to melee, but it shouldn't be used unless you know you can hit it.

You forgot down B also. It kills at 120%

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

You forgot down B also. It kills at 120%

I hope you mean the ground version, the air version doesn't kill until the 140-160% range depending on altitude, not to mention it has crappy priority. Almost every high tier can use a U-Tilt/Uair and beat it out.

Ducky got it right, he has few good matchups out of 35 characters but at the same time he's like the "Old Mario" of Brawl in terms of balance and priority- which is ironic since Mario now completely sucks in Brawl.

So to answer the question I DO believe he's the most underrated character in the game. He isn't Gannon and Mario bad, but he isn't Toon Link good either.

Then you are one who does not like a challenge.

It's not that people don't like a challenge, its just that people call a character's weakness where they see it. A good character can still be "challenging" to use.

And yes, I main Yoshi so I understand where you're coming from.

 

[Sharky]

F-air is best used as an edgeguard or spike. Who uses this on the stage anyway, especially for KOs? It's slower than f-smash!

It auto-cancels, therefore it's definitely useable.

I'd also like to point out what this guy said:

gah, who cares wich characer we use as long as we pown others sass.. there are way to manny topics on this subject

C'mon now guys, this is like the 7th thread or something crazy like that on this topic. >.<

 

[acojan]

I didn't know warrio was underrated ----- well i love using underdogs.
thats why i use yoshi and ness and zelda in melee but i just stuck with her in brawl ....

Aside from that -- yoshi is incredibly fun to play and he makes a lot of noise and has the most annoying taunt in the world..... i love people who annoy the crap out of their enemies .... i love the special DJ as well which is probably why i also lourve ness....

 

[cobaltstarfire]

F-smash is hard to land
D-smash isn't a KO move until like 180% and that's without DI :/
U-smash is good
F-air is best used as an edgeguard or spike. Who uses this on the stage anyway, especially for KOs? It's slower than f-smash!
U-air rules but has a narrow hitbox.
You forgot n-air, which is quick but doesn't kill until higher percentages

So yeah, I think he lacks reliable KO moves.

And Yoshi is in the third heaviest class along with Wolf and Wario. Not bad.

You can make up for the narrow hitbox with the fact that you can do a second Uair immediately after the first one if you happen to miss.

It's a little annoyign that a lot of his attacks do lack priority, and it's been the hardest thing for me to adjust to.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yoshi can't jump out of shield, his recovery isn't good, and his grab sucks. Basically his defense sucks pretty badly. Those few factors alone prevent him from getting high on the tiers.

 

[???????]

I'd say Mario is often underrated more so than either Wario or Yoshi; even if Mario was considered high tier there's a good chance that people still won't use him because he's seen as average rather than all-around or well-rounded. Yoshi is a little underestimated but he does have some major issues; besides defense, Yoshi offensive primarily relies on his aerials and the fact that his recovery is mostly based on his mid-air jump does not put him in particularly good standings. Yoshi is a good character and he has a lot of good tricks up his sleeve but I don't have any particular opinion on Yoshi.

*I think Wario is very good just a bit slow and short ranged (I play him a lot like Jigglypuff)*

 

[Gindler]

Yoshi can't jump out of shield...oh boo hoo, I secondary ness and don't jump out of shield with him either cause I usually don't just hide in my shield, you can always powershield or sidestep instead, the only thing I'll hide in my shield for is MKs tornado and they always expect to shield stab since a full tornado will hit any character but yoshi.

I do love yoshi's speed to weight ratio. Heck he's slightly faster than TL but is still relatively heavy so he can take a beating and still make the comback, and yes yoshi does make alot of annoying sounds during the fights, every attack he has makes some kind of rubbery sound effect. Oh and yeah the juggernaut frames during his second jump pwn and can screw up peoples spikes while you can still do a rising Uair or whichever you choose.

But yeah yoshi definetly is more of a balanced character so if you just want a slow powerhouse or a fast wimpy light character yoshi definelty isn't for you.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Yoshi can put on the pain for a number of reasons.

1. He's a ****ing dinosaur

2. He can poop someone three sizes larger than his entire body



But seriously. His priority isn't THAT bad. It's fairly standard, and trading hits isn't what Yoshi is good for anyway.

Whoever said he didn't have any KO moves is mistaken. Even a Nair off the edge will KO at reasonable percentages. And his ability to edge-guard is exceptional, so even if he DIDN'T have some pretty solid smashes, he still has the ability to kill with relative ease.

He's physically balanced. Considering his solid weight, his speed is exceptional.

His unorthodox timing and hit-frames works to his advantage. This is because while any good Yoshi player will eventually master the unusual approaches and use them naturally, opponents will have a difficult time adjusting at first. After playing 5 Metaknights or Toon Links, throwing in a Yoshi will mess with someone's head.

People think he's lower tier because his learning curve is pretty steep, and he requires some fairly advanced techniques to be effective against other characters' naturally simplistic and seemingly superior move-sets.

Time, of course, will be the deciding factor, but I suspect that there will be a respect for Yoshi's surprising effectiveness developing before long.

 

[???????]

Those are good points and I do believe Yoshi is a good character but I cannot come up with any particular opinion on Yoshi (His true potential in Brawl’s metagame isn’t completely clear right now and most people will simply stereotype from Melee).

 

[goodkid]

^^
Yoshi has some potential, he isn't the best, but he is not too shabby.

 

[Nocher]

I just like him, he is one of those characters who, once you try him out for five minutes, if you like him, you are incapable of playing anyone else. It is pathetic in a way, but it is what makes a new Yoshi player join our ranks. He has no need for tiers because everyone will stereotype him whether he is good or not. His attacks are almost as unorthodox as the main character in the manga/anime BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBo, Bobobo in his uncanny ability to use seemingly random attacks to destroy foes. Also, unlike other characters, which when i visit the boards all they talk about is new techniques that are already known by even a novice like myself, Yoshi has much to be discovered and mastered. Once it is all harnessed, he will be respected as a wonderful charactor that will rise to power among the characters (but will still be stereotyped into lower tier <_<)

 

[Beast_mode]

I completely agree with Nocher. Yoshi is the only character I can seem to play. I've tried many times to play another character (as a secondary of course, I'll never give up Yoshi), but it's difficult. I'm aware that many characters out prioritize him, but it just doesn't seem to matter all that much. I personally love playing Yoshi defensively, as he seems built for it. His pivot grab tends to shut down aggressive players, when you learn how to use egg toss you can hit characters from just about anywhere, and his bair is brutal (although that can definately be used offensively too). Plus he's really fast, but at the same time, pretty heavy and tough to KO. And, as mentioned in previous posts, he's so god**** cute, it's sickening.

 

[Nocher]

hey, if you are looking for a good secondary, try out ness or lucas. their double jump is similar to yoshi's and ness has about the same style and floatiness. i tried them and liked them as a secondary because they couter yoshi's weaknesses *cough cough zelda cough*

 

[Pierce7d]

A) Yoshi is underratered, but still not high tier.

B) Mario is retardly underrated. His Utilt, Uair, and fireball are all nasty moves, and his mindgames are beast if you know how to play him (this is coming from a Marth main)

C) His upB is underrated

D) I'd say most of the people on this board don't know how to use FLUDD or Cape properly

E) At first Sheik was underrated really badly. Now I realize that Shiek is still broken, just not as broken as Melee.

 

[Nocher]

there really arent any bad characters in this game. all the bad characters are just underrated (maybe not ganon) just with unknown talent. they did a good job destroying the metagame part of the game although there are still overpowered and overrated chars, noone is bad.

i also agree that mario deserves a high place on the tier list (which i hope will be annihilated but will not becaue people want to be f***-tards and choose whatever character is said to be good instead of actually trying out charsfor what fits their style. tier lists are bad for the smash community.)from experience against a really good mario.

 

[Gindler]

True, mario's cape is the most ****ing annoying thing in the game to me. I go for a Bair and he turns me around making me look stupid, and secondarying ness (as nocher mentioned, he's a popular secondary for yoshi mains) he can cape my recovery and turn me around, so the cape is still to be feared to some characters but is surely annoying to all. I tried secondarying mario like i did in melee but he just plays so different, I might have to look into him again and work on the new cape timing.

But anyhoo this is a yoshi thread, as far as I can tell, Wario, mario, ness (everyone thinks lucas is sooooo much better), and of course yoshi are uberly underrated as of now.

 

[Fabrian]

Yoshi is an anti spam character with with his egg roll priority XD... I really don't think he has that low of a priority. It's pretty underestimated in my eyes.

 

[Nocher]

however, they are some of the best chars once you train enough. everybody just wants instant gratification instead of long term results. this kind of thinking caused the great depression.

 

[Fabrian]

however, they are some of the best chars once you train enough. everybody just wants instant gratification instead of long term results. this kind of thinking caused the great depression.

Unlike other games I think every character in this game has a potential to be great if not good at high peak levels of SSBB gaming.

 

[Nocher]

exactly what i have said in almost every one of the hundreds of topics on this leave this topic alone i have expressed it enough!! tiers do not matter because of the new char system

 

[doom dragon 105]

he has craptasic priority. he lacks K.O. moves and his double jump is a double edge sword. some times i could help but i also can screw you over being too big. the only reason people loseis because he moves weird and no one knows how to play him

 

[Gindler]

Ha, craptastic? I've cancelled out many tilts and a few smashes with yoshi's jab, his JAB!!!
Not to mention most of his aerials have good priority as well and will beat out alot of other aerials.
Yoshi also has excellent tilts, some even say his ftilt is disjointed (not sure what that means exactly but others have said that), his Dtilt is fast and has some good knockback, and his Utilt has some good reach to it and puts them in perfect position for an Uair kill.
Oh and if you're creative enough you can easily cancel the DJ with an egg toss or egg lay attack.
True, it's nice having the advantage in fighting experience cause not too many people have played a good yoshi and he does move "wierd".

 

[salaboB]

some even say his ftilt is disjointed (not sure what that means exactly but others have said that)

A disjointed hitbox is one that will hit an opponent but attacking it will not hit the user. Swords are an excellent example if you want one that makes sense, if someone swings a sword at you and you smash it with a hammer, you've stopped their swing with your attack but you haven't done any damage to the person wielding the sword.

An attack that isn't disjointed would be something like Yoshi's fsmash, where if you smack his head with an attack of your own that has higher priority you not only stop his attack but hurt him as well. If his ftilt is disjointed it doesn't really make sense (Since his tail is kinda attached to him), but it would be an advantage.

 

[Nocher]

he has craptasic priority. he lacks K.O. moves and his double jump is a double edge sword. some times i could help but i also can screw you over being too big. the only reason people loseis because he moves weird and no one knows how to play him

What a f***ing generalization. First of all, why does everyone believe his double jump to be a weakness, yes, it is weird, but for players that love yoshi, they liked its unique style from the beginning, bad priority, ha. He has some of the most useful canceling moves his jab can cancel out almost anything but a sword or Pikmin. He may be big, but he is fast and has a good survival rate. He is incredibly fast for his weight. If he moves weird, why is that bad? So what if that is the only reason anyone loses, they should get over it and adapt. Also, I wouldn't underestimate any character in this game especially Yoshi, for their smashes and K.O. moves. He has great moves use to K.O. people, no one chooses to accept that they are, in fact, kill moves. Every point you have made is wrong and if you would like to debate further, please go ahead. i dare you to try and match my intellect.

 

[goodoldganon]

Too be underrated you need to have a lot going for you, but no one seems to realize it. The Ice Climbers were underrated in Melee. Until I'm proven otherwise, Yoshi is a mediocre character. (Though not the games worst. Even if he is, at least he is still useable unlike most low tiers in Melee.)

 

[Xebenkeck]

What a f***ing generalization. First of all, why does everyone believe his double jump to be a weakness, yes, it is weird, but for players that love yoshi, they liked its unique style from the beginning, bad priority, ha. He has some of the most useful canceling moves his jab can cancel out almost anything but a sword or Pikmin. He may be big, but he is fast and has a good survival rate. He is incredibly fast for his weight. If he moves weird, why is that bad? So what if that is the only reason anyone loses, they should get over it and adapt. Also, I wouldn't underestimate any character in this game especially Yoshi, for their smashes and K.O. moves. He has great moves use to K.O. people, no one chooses to accept that they are, in fact, kill moves. Every point you have made is wrong and if you would like to debate further, please go ahead. i dare you to try and match my intellect.[/QUOTE]
I agree completely

 

[Nocher]

thank you for agreeing with me on that point, and i appreciate all of the topics on this, but let us leave it alone until we can actually have one of those despised tier lists.until then, let this topic lie. whenever someone posts in a topic like this as an idiot, i will just post the following,

leave and let die

(btw goodoldganon, if you had taken time to read all the stupid topics on this, you would realize how good yoshi actually is, there fore he is underrated)


end topic

 

[pidgey14]

I wish that the people would actually read the Yoshi topics, but they are so idiotic, thinking minor things are such a huge problem and also think that Yoshi's advantages do not match it.

 

[Nocher]

as i have said, they dont bother looking that their arguments have been refuted already


btw,

leave and let die