Monty Python's Flying Mafia - SCUM VICTORY, Vult/Doop win the game!

[ranmaru]

Spak You are wishy washy with the gheb lynch scenario. You were also wishy washy with Fandan when I scumread him, which I dislike. Ryu just is easier to catch with made up scumreads.

 

[ranmaru]

Dooplissity Pretty likely. I don't know his read on Nabe, would need to re-read that. I would lynch Spak first though.

 

[Spak]

the people not on Gheb lynch were {Gheb, Kouse, Spak, Nabe}

That's why I said probably. It does make Nabe look kinda sketch, but at the same time the Kouse lynch doesn't make sense to me and I have to consider the possibility that someone set up the non-lynch pool so that Nabe and I would turn against each-other.

I don't like that you use the drugged state as a reason not to judge Ryu.

Sorry, I wanted to participate but was drugged so my judgement was clouded. I can confirm that post is judging Ryu

I feel keeping a vote on kouse was not doing any good and you wanted to keep it, and only until xiivi replaced did you remove the vote. There was also only 1 vote on him.

2; Gheb and I had votes on him, which was more than Ryu when you were asking for assistance.

Spak You are wishy washy with the gheb lynch scenario. You were also wishy washy with Fandan when I scumread him, which I dislike. Ryu just is easier to catch with made up scumreads.

I was wishy washy about the Gheb lynch because I was wishy washy on my Gheb read. I'm wishy washy on your Fanny read because I'm wishy washy on my Fanny read. I usually have super strong opinions on one or two slots and not on much else when I don't already know people's alignments.

I don't know his read on Nabe, would need to re-read that.

Pretty null, increasing scumminess the longer that he isn't here. You wouldn't need to re-read that if you actually read the reads you asked for.

 

[ranmaru]

Don't get snippy with me. If you said it that way I would actually remember a stance rather than 'I hope to see more of nabe'.

 

[Spak]

Don't get snippy with me.

Read your last 5 posts directed to me and tell me you didn't start the snippiness lol.

 

[Spak]

Rebooting my computer for updates, will be back in a bit.

 

[Dooplissity]

Dooplissity Pretty likely. I don't know his read on Nabe, would need to re-read that. I would lynch Spak first though.

Why?

 

[ranmaru]

Because spak is more suspicious to me than nabe at the moment, who I have a null read on. That is all. I am willing to listen to what you have to say on Nabe.

 

[Dooplissity]

I think I've pretty much said it. Is there anything you would want clarification on?

 

[Spak]

Because spak is more suspicious to me than nabe at the moment, who I have a null read on.

So what's your big case on me? I kinda wanna know after you instantaneously shift me from town to scum with no solid explanation. Also, you never answered my question from #394.

 

[Vult Redux]

vote: nabes to start off the Day

Nabes did you shoot Xivii

although i must admit Spak is a tempting wagon at this point and I might switch. interestingly, I have the similar concerns - with both of them. Both had been really passive D1.

I haven't done a full re-read yet, but his waffling on the Gheb wagon on page 8 is bizarre. He says he prefers it or Kouse, then says that he wouldn't go for it unless he had to and goes Ryu. Now that we know Gheb was town, it feels a lot like he was avoiding being on what he knew was a ML.

I also noticed his strange attitude toward the wagon (iirc I hinted at it too) but I didn't want to say anything because I was scared you would unvote Gheb and go back to Nabes. <_<

though i should qualify that this would have been a much bigger red flag for me if gheb weren't scum. I was banking on a Nabe-Gheb team at that point. But even with a gheb town flip I'm not a fan of those posts.

woah wait what the **** is this

the people not on Gheb lynch were {Gheb, Kouse, Spak, Nabe}

From your point of view, if there's one on and one off, you should be on the obvscum Nabe.

even I never expected this from you.

 

[ranmaru]

Spak Answer in #401. I just generally noticed some odd things from your slot over time. The wishy washiness on Fandango, you holding your vote on Kouse until Xiivi was replaced (having your vote on ryu in spirit does not count), that's it. From today, I agree with Doop that your actions don't line up with what you are saying here. I said there was 1 vote on Ryu and I could have used your support on that but you insisted on staying on Kouse, which did nothing since he was most likely awol. That's it.

 

[ranmaru]

Vote: Spak

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ran can you tell me your reasoning and step by step why a mass claim was considered by you?

 

[ranmaru]

I'll out that information later on in the day. Cool with waiting?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unvote

No l-1s

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll out that information later on in the day. Cool with waiting?

Before 48s til deadline at least

 

[ranmaru]

Red Ryu, what is your read on me now?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Null til I reread interactions

 

[ranmaru]

Alrighty then.

 

[ranmaru]

@#HBC | Nabe Get in here.
Fandangox Get in here.

This is going a bit too slow for my liking.

 

[ranmaru]

That's why I said probably. It does make Nabe look kinda sketch, but at the same time the Kouse lynch doesn't make sense to me and I have to consider the possibility that someone set up the non-lynch pool so that Nabe and I would turn against each-other.

None being on the wagon would mean Spak and Nabe, 1 on and 1 off would mean... One on the gheb wagon and Nabe in your perspective. So tell me, what is your analysis of this 'someone' that set you up. Who do you think it could be and why. Then tell me why it prevents you from looking at Nabe.

 

[Spak]

Spak Answer in #401.

Doesn't answer my question:

I feel he would be a bit more transparent as scum.

What makes you say that?

The wishy washiness on Fandango

Me not being sure about one slot when only 1/3 are confirmed from my PoV

you holding your vote on Kouse until Xiivi was replaced (having your vote on ryu in spirit does not count)

Kouse was a more likely lynch than Ryu until the replacement. We had more votes (Nabe unvoted Ryu and Gheb and I were both on Kouse), and that was why I wanted to stay on Kouse until it became unviable, then I would switch to Ryu

that's it.

Wow. Kinda weak tbh.

From today, I agree with Doop that your actions don't line up with what you are saying here. I said there was 1 vote on Ryu and I could have used your support on that but you insisted on staying on Kouse, which did nothing since he was most likely awol. That's it.

Nice restatement of the point two quotes above and acting like it's another point.

So tell me, what is your analysis of this 'someone' that set you up. Who do you think it could be and why. Then tell me why it prevents you from looking at Nabe.

I think that someone could have set us up because the NK makes no sense otherwise. Other than getting people going after Kouse to look bad or trying to set up a 1 on 1 off situation in which there are only two people off (assuming both are town in this scenario), what reason would scum have to lynch a slot who has been inactive and has a replacement who's rusty at Mafia? Can you give me one good explanation (other than the standard cop-out scream for WIFOM) for why the least active player in the game was shot last night?

You seem to be intent on killing me today, Ran, and I'm not quite sure why. All of your reasons for suspecting me as scum are garbage and either you're getting misled into a hard tunnel and I've somehow set you in a blind fury or you're not as good at playing scum as I would expect you to be. If it's the former I suggest you snap out of it and find scum, and if it's the latter I hope you are killed after my flip (a combo of you and Ryu already having me at L-1 first day of the phase makes my future look pretty grim).

 

[Vult Redux]

Spak: Okay first off Defen's post about Ran's push on Kouse made a lot of sense to me. The replace was sudden and unexpected, but I do recall the slot said they'd be VLA. After that Spak has been mostly active, but hasn't had much direction in the thread. His case on Kousebound is pretty weak, he's assuming Kousebound is not posting because he's newbscum. Kousebound hasn’t posted enough for people to suggest the slot as anything other than a non-policy lynch, yet two people are pushing this slot. Null - Scumlean.

do you still feel this way about Spak?

I think that someone could have set us up because the NK makes no sense otherwise. Other than getting people going after Kouse to look bad or trying to set up a 1 on 1 off situation in which there are only two people off (assuming both are town in this scenario), what reason would scum have to lynch a slot who has been inactive and has a replacement who's rusty at Mafia? Can you give me one good explanation (other than the standard cop-out scream for WIFOM) for why the least active player in the game was shot last night?

you assuming the mafia did the kill?

 

[Spak]

you assuming the mafia did the kill?

Yes, because the bodies would pile up far too quickly if we had two possible night killers, the game would end far too quickly. Having Mafia NKs and another killer (aside from maybe a dayvig) in a 9-person game makes no sense balance-wise.

 

[Spak]

EBWOP: Replace the second comma with an and.

 

[Vult Redux]

Yes, because the bodies would pile up far too quickly if we had two possible night killers, the game would end far too quickly. Having Mafia NKs and another killer (aside from maybe a dayvig) in a 9-person game makes no sense balance-wise.

maybe...

in any case, assuming the kill is mafia, I don't think it was to set you up. I've seen wackier kills before and we're not really sure what information they have. I also don't know what a fake cop is. but I digress.

err that was my polite way of saying that I don't like this defense on your part.

 

[Spak]

maybe...

in any case, assuming the kill is mafia, I don't think it was to set you up. I've seen wackier kills before and we're not really sure what information they have. I also don't know what a fake cop is. but I digress.

err that was my polite way of saying that I don't like this defense on your part.

So you think that Mafia just killed an inactive player for the fun of it? I don't see that realistically happening.

Also, don't kill me until deadline. I have a sister role (I'm not sure who has it) that I could give out the name of. It might be useful to confirm a slot as town in MyLo/LyLo or to narrow down the list to two in a CC situation. Or it could just be a conversation starter that makes town start cooking with gas.

Thirdly, I think I remember Nabe saying he'd be V/LA until Tuesday in the social.

 

[Vult Redux]

I read the game while it was going on, but I need to go back and re-analyze the slot; apparently I remember him being around more than you do. I think that the Gheb wagon probably has one scum in it, but town is so disorganized that they just went for the easiest lynch. I think the Gheb wagon was a bad move and Ryu would have been a better lynch.

So do you think Nabe-Ryu scumteam?

If you think both scum are on the Gheb wagon, then that leaves Fand, Ran, me, Doopliss. If you were to guess, who's Ryu's partner?

Personally, reading the wagon again... I don't see anything of concern about it other than Nabes. Fand's vote was justfied, I knew well before that I didn't like Gheb and actively searched for other players that expressed similar concerns. Those were Ryu and Doopliss, and their timing on the wagon matched their reads iirc. The only outlier is Ran, who deadline hammered.

 

[Vult Redux]

ironically gheb's assessment post-lynch that the wagon was town-driven... makes sense in retrospect.

i'm a little embarrassed honestly

 

[Vult Redux]

Thirdly, I think I remember Nabe saying he'd be V/LA until Tuesday in the social.

oh okay i guess we'll know fur sure tomorrow

 

[Spak]

So do you think Nabe-Ryu scumteam?

If you think both scum are on the Gheb wagon, then that leaves Fand, Ran, me, Doopliss. If you were to guess, who's Ryu's partner?

Personally, reading the wagon again... I don't see anything of concern about it other than Nabes. Fand's vote was justfied, I knew well before that I didn't like Gheb and actively searched for other players that expressed similar concerns. Those were Ryu and Doopliss, and their timing on the wagon matched their reads iirc. The only outlier is Ran, who deadline hammered.

Possibly Nabe (I'll determine that when he gets back), possibly Fanny (I re-read his slot and I think his questioning of Defen at the start seemed to be him not reading her responses at all and just trying to pressure the noob, his timing for activity seems too convenient and too far in-between, and he hasn't ever been in the spotlight because he's applied pressure then left). Leaving for a game of League, be back soon.

 

[Fandangox]

do you still feel this way about Spak?

Yes. Specially after Doopliss' #400.

 

[Fandangox]

I'm going to level with you all. I faked my townread of Ran's (mostly the content) D1 to see how he would react, I thought town ran would call me out on that, that said what I said there wasn't really a lie, I do think Ryu vs Ran is town vs town.

I don't know what to think of Nabe.

 

[Fandangox]

Spak give me your thoughts on Ryu and Nabe.

 

[Dooplissity]

I don't know what to think of Nabe.

Can I get more detail on this? It really bothers me how much Nabe has slid under the radar while others have the main spotlight. We can't keep brushing him aside.

 

[Fandangox]

Can I get more detail on this? It really bothers me how much Nabe has slid under the radar while others have the main spotlight. We can't keep brushing him aside.

I mean what else can be said, most of what I remember is your arguments with him about his playstyle with ultimately are useless and this is how I remember Nabe playing. He's like J except he doesn't get started in D2. He ignored my question D1 but that also doesn't mean anything since he's Nabe.

Spak, Nabe, and maybe Vult would be the directions I'd go with. And Vult is only cause I can't still grasp the dude. Ryu seems to be misguided Townie, a lot of what Ran has done has me suspect him, but his play ultimately seems townie with actual scumhunting intent. Then there's you which I already said have mostly been on the same wavelenght.

 

[Spak]

Spak give me your thoughts on Ryu and Nabe.

My opinion on Ryu is here:

My main concern is that when someone has asked you for a read this game, you've given mostly whimpy gut reads and then have pretty much no evidence to support said reads. Then, when you're further questioned on them, you've given pretty bad reasoning that only looks at one aspect of a person's play, not the whole picture. You seem to be picking and choosing what you see in certain people to fit your read list, not analyzing slots so that you can place them on your list appropriately.

His play hasn't changed that much since D1, so my read on him hasn't either.

I've never played with Nabe, but I'll take his playstyle by his word. If he doesn't put in more work tomorrow (when he's supposedly off of his V/LA) and the rest of the phase as promised or doesn't respond to Doops' accusations well, he'll be a scum lean in my opinion.

 

[ranmaru]

I don't think there's anything suspicious about Kouse at this stage. He's just trying to get a feel for the game like I am by watching what other people do, and it's not entirely unreasonable to think that your level of activity could be being used to pass yourself off as town when you're not. I don't necessarily agree with his suspicions, but it seems to be the way a smart person would hide.

Let me talk about this. This is not suspicious, but I'll go into why I feel it's null, in depth. One, she defends Kouse by relating with him, which is understandable as a newbie. The second part, reads as slightly malicious. Supporting the reasoning while disagreeing with the suspicion, like I don't see a reason other than to sort of, indirectly attack me. I read it as null because I can't genuinely tell if she genuinely thinks that or is abusing being a newbie to support kouse while slightly talking me down.

Next, Spak's replacement reads were pretty weak. He never really gave a read on Vult early day, and his read change was to town lean on vult much later in the day when I ask for updates. His read on Fandan is weak, his read on me is alright, although it's easy to say 'meta, he's holding his ground, he's honest'. His only in-depth read is Kouse, who is awol.

Spak uses his own newbie game to compare to Kouse, which I don't think is fair as each person is unique and they react differently than others based on their own world view. #238 (Also, I was the one who said 'no one was suspicious of me' in response to his accusation of me) I think Spak tunneled Kouse too far, and wasn't looking to develop other reads with his vote. Since, Kouse was Awol, he elected to keep his vote on 'sir who isn't here' until he was replaced. To me, I think ScumSpak was intent on keeping his vote on a for sure easy lynch, instead of putting his support in Ryu's direction, which I greatly needed at the time. Him waiting for Xiiivi to be replaced in was too late for me. Him quoting his reasoning instead of re-phrasing shows he doesn't genuinely believe it in his heart, and has to quote his explanations when asked. Meaning, they are made up, and they are hard to explain on the spot. He has done this twice already toDay, and it shows his reads remain steady, and aren't static (changing). Our reads should usually change and not just stay in the same place. I can't believe he genuinely believes Ryu is scum without considering other reasoning, such as his reaction to my pushing D1.

Next, his thoughts do not line up with the wagon scenarios he proposes. Neither one (1 on and 1 off, or all off) is reflected in his reads. His only scumread is Ryu. He agrees with Doop that Nabe would be sketchy due to this, but he then states that the reason he has not considered it was because he was weighing the options of scum killing in such a way to set him and Nabe up. Seeing his defense, I don't like it. He didn't actually answer my questions, and needed prodding from Vult. He never answered why it prevented him from considering Nabe, the original problem. To me, it feels like he was only asking questions about the wagon investigation to seem townie, instead of genuinely thinking about it and actually using it to find who is scum on and off the wagon, because of this fear that scum may have set him up.

Overall, Spak's reads were weak at the start, and only focused the hardest on Kouse. He stayed on Kouse even through being AWOL, when he could have used his vote to support the Ryu push which he is on toDay. He doesn't seem to summarize his original reasoning, which leads me to believe he made them up and would rather quote them again and again. Finally, his reads does not line up with his scenarios of the Gheb wagon having 1 scum 1 off or none at all.

 

[ranmaru]

I think this is the best option toDay.