MM's worst Matchups in order of horribleness?

[MERPIS]

Also, who wins between Olimar and Mega Man?

 

[CopShowGuy]

Mario, Sheik, and C. Falcon are my top three worst in order from worst to better.
I think Mega Man can beat Olimar. Olimar is better at tacking on incremental damage, but Mega Man is better at sealing the KO.

 

[Mythzotick]

This is just me, but imo, I have...

>>>>>

Some people may disagree with me, but I don't think Mario is as bad as the other 3 are. Although, a good Mario can **** you up hard if you let him do his thing.

CopShowGuy I think the mu is even after more experience and watching this match up. His speed and combo game isn't to be slept on, but he kind of has a harder time dealing with lemons and our other projectiles compared to the ones I've mentioned above me. Plus, his disadvantage state is really REALLY BAD even compared to Fox; who's also a fast faller with an exploitable recovery like Captain Falcon is, but doesn't have it as bad Captain Falcon does.

 

[Sleek Media]

>>

Take your pick for the #3 spot. Everyone sleeps on Link because there's like two good ones in the world, but he eats our neutral and edgeguards the crap out of us. The others are self explanatory, though surely some chucklehead will come in and proclaim that we demolish Bayo because "pellets are better than her killing us off two combos" or whatever.

Oilman is even-ish, probably slight advantage in Mega's favor. Metal Blade rescues an otherwise disastrous MU.

 

[MERPIS]

>>

Take your pick for the #3 spot. Everyone sleeps on Link because there's like two good ones in the world, but he eats our neutral and edgeguards the crap out of us. The others are self explanatory, though surely some chucklehead will come in and proclaim that we demolish Bayo because "pellets are better than her killing us off two combos" or whatever.

Oilman is even-ish, probably slight advantage in Mega's favor. Metal Blade rescues an otherwise disastrous MU.

Pellets are better than killing us off two combos X3
Also, wouldn't TL also be here since link is here? It's about time some body recognized mewtwo as a bad MU tho.
As for olimar. The pikmin will bring the fallen metal blade back to olimar. That's something to be really scared of if the metal blade in left alone on the field.

 

[Mega-Spider]

The one is a very volatile MU that can switch on a moment's notice from my experience. Though, that could be because I'm not a fan of the MU. I think it's even, but again, can switch at a moment's notice.

is one that's frustrating since his kill options are more reliable and his advantaged state is better than ours. Not to mention, he can reflect stuff. That's never fun.
is one that I've grown to hate more and more the more I play it. While Mario is outranged by us and his Fireballs aren't that useful against us, having a reflector, gimping tool for us when we're off stage, and having high damaging combos makes things scary. Not to mention, U-Smash. ****ing hate how insulting that move is.
in a league of her own. I mean, "shooting pellets in neutral" will only get you so far. Not to mention, she combos us pretty badly, can gimp us, and of course, Witch Time. Yeah, not fun, especially when we're behind. Bayo's advantaged state is amazing.
is the MU I have the most experience with in out of all these characters I'm listing. This is still a pretty awful MU, because we're combo food and Shine is there, making things way harder for us. Not to mention, U-Smash and all kinds of crazy stuff.
should be self-explanatory. Our neutral is practically non-existent against her.

There are other MUs that can give Megs trouble, like , and , but I don't have much experience in the Pikachu MU to really say much about it.

 

[Sleek Media]

Also, wouldn't TL also be here since link is here?

TL is tough, but Link is actually worse for Mega because of his aerials, boxing, and edgeguarding. Specifically, his zAir and nAir beat pellets and your fAir/bAir, making it very difficult and risky to try and pressure him to prevent him from getting a bomb. Once he gets one, you can really only respond with a held metal blade. He has all kinds of shenanigans with aerials and catching/throwing it again when it bounces off your shield. He can combo you out of the explosion reliably, and he hits HARD. Offstage, dAir/nAir->upB covers your recovery completely if you can't jump directly on the stage. Jab mixups can do huge damage or end stocks, and good luck if he makes a read, which he has plenty of conditioning tools for. At least you can zone TL a little and abuse his lower weight. Link is one of those characters where you need to maintain absolute perfect spacing at all times while also looking out for zAir.

 

[MERPIS]

Can anyone here give me insight on villager vs MM?

 

[Diamond Octobot]

What has been said so far is pretty much on point.

My order would be : > >
Don't get me wrong, Mario can be reaaaaly hard, but a good Falcon can just start wrecking you out of nowhere. And he has a Kill Fthrow, something Mario lacks. Mario also can't kill you as long as you stay out of USmash Range, but his BAir can take stocks. Then again, it's personal, so it won't reflect our current state in the Meta.

Villager will usually be unable to hit you with projectiles, since lemons are a thing. But if you let him get close, his Fair/Bair will hurt you. A lot. Just don't lose yourself and hit every SideB he could toss at you with a lemon / MB or shield it. If he ever gets a tree out, make sure to keep him at bay and get rid of the tree. His axe eats lemons if I remember well.
When recovering, try going up, as a Bowling Bowl to the face is never good to take. If Villager is offstage, he'll usually cover himself with a Lloid Rocket. Contesting it isn't that useful, so jumpp over it and prepare a DAir. you can also just jump and FAir away if you feel like it. Just remember that he can still FAir you after a SideB. His recovery is easy to exploit, so watch where he goes and punis accordingly.

Just make sure to never give him free FSmashes (the move is bad enough like that) or Leaf Shield through (Huge hitboxes are huge), crouch under his Slingshot every once in a while and catch Slingshot landings with Top Spin/Slide. That and challenging his UTilt isn't useful.



Special mension goes to , as he can eat lemons all day and still take stocks to careless players with a DownB, anUAir, aFtilt or an Usmash.

 

[MERPIS]

Ganon? Naw, surely you's jestin'.

 

[Sleek Media]

bops . Villager mains have told me it's their worst MU, or at least a contender. Hold a metal blade and he can't use lloyd rockets. Pellets beat slingshot. Crash bomb flushes him out from behind the tree. You gotta play smart, but if you do, this is your best high tier MU.

 

[MERPIS]

bops . Villager mains have told me it's their worst MU, or at least a contender. Hold a metal blade and he can't use lloyd rockets. Pellets beat slingshot. Crash bomb flushes him out from behind the tree. You gotta play smart, but if you do, this is your best high tier MU.

must be some pretty terribad villager mains if they think mega man is worse than mewtwo, meta knight and fox.

 

[Sleek Media]

must be some pretty terribad villager mains if they think mega man is worse than mewtwo, meta knight and fox.

MD/VA power ranked, but yeah. Probably just some scrub. Nice contribution.

 

[MERPIS]

MD/VA power ranked, but yeah. Probably just some scrub. Nice contribution.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Mewtwo is easily Villager's worst though. He doesn't have to worry about lloyds due to lmao shadow ball and reflector, He can out space villager quite easily with even fair, dtilt is insanely useful in this MU as villager is floaty and dtilt to fair to fair works really well, Mewtwo's mobility gets past almost any wall Villager tries to set up, and at kill percents villager doesn't really have much to fend off Mewtwo's throws, fair, and up smash. Dair really screws villager over, shadow ball shenanigans are nightmares, but the one big problem for mewtwo in this MU is the fact that, if villager can pocket a maximum shadow ball, mewtwo is pretty much dead at 0% because dthrow to shadow ball becomes a thing.

 

[Sleek Media]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Mewtwo is easily Villager's worst though. He doesn't have to worry about lloyds due to lmao shadow ball and reflector, He can out space villager quite easily with even fair, dtilt is insanely useful in this MU as villager is floaty and dtilt to fair to fair works really well, Mewtwo's mobility gets past almost any wall Villager tries to set up, and at kill percents villager doesn't really have much to fend off Mewtwo's throws, fair, and up smash. Dair really screws villager over, shadow ball shenanigans are nightmares, but the one big problem for mewtwo in this MU is the fact that, if villager can pocket a maximum shadow ball, mewtwo is pretty much dead at 0% because dthrow to shadow ball becomes a thing.

wut

 

[MERPIS]

wut

Villager can't get past shadow ball too well, it either out prioritizes or Mewtwo can out spam him.

 

[Mythzotick]

Ganon? Naw, surely you's jestin'.

This just in.

Apparently, is now an unwinnable match up for since King Dedede is too fat and max rage dash attack kills us at 10% for no reason other than... "shenanigans".

That is all.

 

[MERPIS]

This just in.

Apparently, is now an unwinnable match up for since King Dedede is too fat and max rage dash attack kills us at 10% for no reason other than... "shenanigans".

That is all.

SURELY YOU'S JESTIN'

 

[Sleek Media]

Villager can't get past shadow ball too well, it either out prioritizes or Mewtwo can out spam him.

Why is pocket not a factor here? Mega isn't even supposed to use uncharged mega busters because of what a potent kill option it becomes when pocketed. It's not hard at all to react to shadow ball and pocket it, and it's MUCH stronger than mega buster. I can see annoying him with uncharged shadow ball on occasion, but slingshot beats it if you try to camp with it.

 

[Megamang]

Villager also abuses m2's weird/faulty ledge snap hard. In return, m2's blistering speed and powerful, disjointed aerials are a problem for villager trying to return to neutral. They both do very well in advantage.

Confusion can reflect close range slingshot and outright kill villy, especially vs bair. but m2's big body is an easy target for Villager's bullet hell, and a well placed slingshot wont reflect into villager if you space/time it specifically.

Its just annoying for m2, nothing horrific. But I switch to Megaman for it, since mega kinda ****s on villager pretty brutally since almost nothing goes through pellet barrage, while mega's blade/leaf shield cut through lloyds and crash bomber deters lloyds and trees.

Villager is slow and bad at defending himself in the air. Dair is pretty damn scary for him, itll cut thru balloons and kill him early. Bair is also deadly offstage.

Villager can edgeguard mega pretty well as well, so generally the neutral winner will win the match. Fortunately Mega has a significant edge in neutral; and villager has to convincingly win it to get a real gimp going.


Offstage, USE RUSH EACH TIME YOU GET HIT ASAP, youll gain height. Jump when you know for sure you wont lose the jump to a slingshot.

Leaf shield is decent, loses to pocket tho. But villy has a slow grab, so abuse your shield + dash grab + pellets for a better ground game than his, then make his life hell with bair and uair if and when the match shifts to an air v air or even air v ground match.

---

Mega's worst MUs? Thats probably Fox, Mewtwo, campy Lucario...

If a Luc knows the matchup and refuses to die to bair or a metal blade setup, eventually his aura sphere will cut through all your zoning... Then you have to approach through it, and his now huge normals, and its tough. You win hard if you can get a gimp or a blade to utilt early.

 

[MERPIS]

Why is pocket not a factor here? Mega isn't even supposed to use uncharged mega busters because of what a potent kill option it becomes when pocketed. It's not hard at all to react to shadow ball and pocket it, and it's MUCH stronger than mega buster. I can see annoying him with uncharged shadow ball on occasion, but slingshot beats it if you try to camp with it.

Except it doesn't matter here and pocket is useless when you have a reflector.
Also, with the speed of the shadow balls, sling shot isn't beating anything.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Uhhh... No matter what kind of reflector you may have, Pocket is always something you should think about. Yes, Mewtwo can reflect back Shadow Balls, but do you seriously think that the Villager player won't be careful about his own timing ? He will, and you might just be better off slmply avoiding it since it's slow. Even with a reflector's health, Pocket has got pretty good frame data, so Villager should be able to pocket a Shadow Ball again it it was reflected and he is at a good distance.

But since this isn't supposed to be a Villager thread, I'll stop here. Shadow Ball isn't the focus of the Villager-Mewtwo MU anyway.

Oh, and about Ganondorf being scary...

Both of these guys are good, so yeah. TheOne/GanonTheBeast still lost through.

 

[Megamang]

> Hey, the megaman boards are actually active!


> None of it is related to Megaman.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Hey, it could have been, but we simply went off tracks. Why don't you try anwsering the OP ?

 

[Mordecai Hazard]

I'm a Mega Man main, and I really don't have any hard time fighting any characters. Maybe Rosalina.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Shiek, fox, greninja. Speed characters, ugh. If they can get in fast, and keep up pressure, it's a nightmare (ZSS, falcon [somewhat], pikachu, and the above)

Olimar pretty much gets invalidated by maintaining max pellet range and overdosing him on vitamin C. Megaman does what villy wants to do, but better. Mew two is such a big hit box that he should have trouble getting in, dodge shadow ball and stay mobile while on the defensive, back throw is great for sealing stocks.

 

[Megamang]

Greninja can be abused by pellets because he has no fast aerials except bair. His recovery is also somewhat exploitable. Retreat into pivot ftilt if he jumps at you in neutral.

Maybe its just easy for me because I have a pocket Greninja for the m2 MU, but I think his slow aerial options are enough for us to win. DI away and up from any throw, dont airdodge uthrow, or airdodge much at all really.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

I wish I had vids. The greninja I have trouble with never approaches with aerials other than nair, instead he'll empty hop a lot and then run in for grab or dash attack, unless he lands the nair, in which case he does lots of footstool combo shenanigans. He also likes to sit back sometimes and chuck the small shuriken a bunch to mess with my grounded zoning, then, when I go airborne he runs in under me to go for u tilt/smash/air.

 

[Sleek Media]

Shuriken camp actually gives us a lot of trouble. We can't safely approach, or approach at all without letting him get under us or getting within range of a combo starting nAir. Not the worst MU, but certainly a bad one.

 

[Rush 2112]

Small to somewhere medium shurikens can be cancelled with pellets and if he charges longer, jump and diagonal blade. Or stay back and chuck LS. It's not that hard.

 

[Megamang]

Mega also effectively edgeguards greninja.

And fair being faster than his fair is actually pretty troublesome for greninja.

Dont shield if he is grounded, shield if he is aerial. He cant quite tomahawk effectively, though he can kinda do the mixup by landing in dashgrab/fair 50 50 range.

His slow startup is a nightmare vs pellets.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Small to somewhere medium shurikens can be cancelled with pellets and if he charges longer, jump and diagonal blade. Or stay back and chuck LS. It's not that hard.

Small shurikens also out range pellets, and have short enough end lag that jumping over them can be punished if you don't get a read on the greninja. Diagonal blade is projected enough at that distance to be easily dodged or power shielded. Leaf shield, same problem, too slow. Landing close with an aerial results in shield grab, spacing aerials for max range results in getting dash grabbed. I think you're seriously underestimating good greninjas.

Mega also effectively edgeguards greninja.

And fair being faster than his fair is actually pretty troublesome for greninja.

Dont shield if he is grounded, shield if he is aerial. He cant quite tomahawk effectively, though he can kinda do the mixup by landing in dashgrab/fair 50 50 range.

His slow startup is a nightmare vs pellets.

Megaman does ok edge guarding greninja, but greninja still has enough tools to mix up recovery, neutral b or counter to stall in the air, side be for quick horizontal movement, and his up b is really good too, despite being vulnerable.

The greninja I fight only uses fair as part of a combo or string. He uses nair or RAR nair to approach from the air, or he fakes aerial approach with empty hop and runs in for dash grab.

I usually try to power shield everything, I'm not sitting in shield on the ground. Tomahawking is more dependent on player skill than it is on character, but he typically doesn't tomahawk, he's more inclined to empty hop, fast fall, and run in for grab. I usually try to keep myself airborne to a degree, to avoid getting grabbed and strung with up airs or footstool shenanigans.

True, he has a weakness to pellets, and also leaf shield when it's around megaman, but those don't really kill effectively. I usually don't have too much trouble wracking up %, but he's fast and the player himself is really good at mixing up movement and recovery.

For reference, my region has roughly 180 active players, the greninja in question is the rank 15, I'm rank 58.

 

[Rush 2112]

Small shurikens also out range pellets, and have short enough end lag that jumping over them can be punished if you don't get a read on the greninja. Diagonal blade is projected enough at that distance to be easily dodged or power shielded. Leaf shield, same problem, too slow. Landing close with an aerial results in shield grab, spacing aerials for max range results in getting dash grabbed. I think you're seriously underestimating good greninjas.

Even if his outranges ours, they still cancel out. Negating his camping. 0 danger. And we can slowly move forward to close the gap will negating his. A simple jump straight up and down can dodge any shuriken and nobody has an advantage unless you are already within range, in which case you shouldn't jump.

MB and LS will stop him from camping because he has to react to it. It doesn't need to do anything other than that to be effective. The situation is changed from him safely camping then you look for your opening. You don't just jump right at him and fall into his trap.

If someone is camping you the goal is to get them to stop, not to turn it into a hit or your advantage, and everything I described can do that. Yes, they can mix things up but so can we. Jumping over a shuriken is not a guaranteed hit for Greninja or anybody else. It's the same argument I've heard about a Villager shooting Lloyd and punishing a jump over it with slingshot. Things don't happen in a vacuum. It's a dynamic situation and there are many things you can do besides a head on attack. The options you listed will result in a hit, but those aren't the only options.

And yes, I have played a good Greninja that tried to camp me.

 

[Savajho]

I think is a pretty bad matchup for
A lot of his moves can negate pellets, MM is too slow on the ground to punish with other moves than Uptilt, Upsmash oos (those two can't punish anything if the opponent has a proper spacing) and pellets and he can't just run under yoshi's eggs like fox or sheik.

I might be biased because i don't have a lot of experience against yoshi, but this is what makes the matchup very hard for me.

 

[CopShowGuy]

We have a good Yoshi in my scene. I rarely beat him. Best I've learned is to NOT engage him in close combat. Nothing we have is faster than his decent options. If you're in close and can't KO Yoshi, get out of there!

 

[Mythzotick]

I think is a pretty bad matchup for
A lot of his moves can negate pellets, MM is too slow on the ground to punish with other moves than Uptilt, Upsmash oos (those two can't punish anything if the opponent has a proper spacing) and pellets and he can't just run under yoshi's eggs like fox or sheik.

I might be biased because i don't have a lot of experience against yoshi, but this is what makes the matchup very hard for me.

One thing to remember in the mu is that Yoshi has a terrible grab game since his grab has slow start up and end lag, almost no reward from throw, and doesn't have a kill throw. In a game where shielding is really strong, that's a big deal. He does have his down-b as an answer which does break shields, but if you can bait it, that can be a huge punish.

He also lacks any true ranged and disjointed attacks plus, air shooter/uair beats his down-b along with spark shot/u-smash.

I'll give you that it's an extremely annoying and grinding match up, but Yoshi doesn't win the match up. At worst, it's even; which is what I currently think it is right now.

IIRC, Funkermonster has a ton of Yoshi match up experience playing as so maybe he knows more on the specific details and little things on how the match up is played out.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

Even if his outranges ours, they still cancel out. Negating his camping. 0 danger. And we can slowly move forward to close the gap will negating his. A simple jump straight up and down can dodge any shuriken and nobody has an advantage unless you are already within range, in which case you shouldn't jump.

MB and LS will stop him from camping because he has to react to it. It doesn't need to do anything other than that to be effective. The situation is changed from him safely camping then you look for your opening. You don't just jump right at him and fall into his trap.

If someone is camping you the goal is to get them to stop, not to turn it into a hit or your advantage, and everything I described can do that. Yes, they can mix things up but so can we. Jumping over a shuriken is not a guaranteed hit for Greninja or anybody else. It's the same argument I've heard about a Villager shooting Lloyd and punishing a jump over it with slingshot. Things don't happen in a vacuum. It's a dynamic situation and there are many things you can do besides a head on attack. The options you listed will result in a hit, but those aren't the only options.

And yes, I have played a good Greninja that tried to camp me.

I think you're still misunderstanding the point here, he isn't just sitting back and camping all game, he's camping long enough that I have to move in. Throwing MB or LS from a distance to stop the camp temporarily is all well and good, but its just as easy for him to short hop over them and keep shurikens flying as it is for me to jump over the shurikens. The game goes nowhere if we just throw stuff that's easily dodged back and forth so someone has to approach. The range and speed of shurikens means, unless I want a six minute projectile stalemate, I have to approach, but as soon as I get close enough to become a threat he switches to an aggressive, combo centric playstyle. The options that he can choose for his mixups are safer than ours. Also, pellets may cancel out shurikens, but the timing of them is wonky, every second or third one will slip through in the gap between pellets.

 

[MERPIS]

This is about bad MU's not greninja.

 

[CanadianMegaMan]

That's why I'm talking about the MM v greninja MU? Unless you actually don't want discussion about the MU's, in which case you could have googled "bad megaman match ups ssb4" for a general list made by pro megas instead of making a thread.

 

[Funkermonster]

I think is a pretty bad matchup for
A lot of his moves can negate pellets, MM is too slow on the ground to punish with other moves than Uptilt, Upsmash oos (those two can't punish anything if the opponent has a proper spacing) and pellets and he can't just run under yoshi's eggs like fox or sheik.

I might be biased because i don't have a lot of experience against yoshi, but this is what makes the matchup very hard for me.

In my own scene, we have tons who play Yoshi and he's very common to play against. Having experienced it a good number, I honestly believe Yoshi is either even or in our favor it at 6:4. Most of the time, all you need to do to beat Yoshi is just shield a lot and it exploits his two main weaknesses: his kill options are pretty poor and his neutral game is below average. His grab itself is atrociously laggy (if you spotdodge it, MM's Utilt basically gives you a free kill) and he has low reward from it, no combo throw nor a kill throw/death conversion. Even though he has great Air Mobility, Yoshi can't approach Lemons safely because he has very few safe moves on shield (of all his aerials, only his 16F fair is safe, which can still be stuffed by our own Fair or Bair) and all of our Aerials tend to outspeed and/or outrange his. Outside of these, he only has 3 other anti-shield options, but as long as you know the weakness of each move they can easily be countered when you know they're coming:

Egg Lay: Its better than his normal grab by being B-Reversible and he can trap you for extra damage, but its even slower (21F), he can only deal 1/2 damage to you inside the egg, and he can't get any followups since you get invincibility once escaping it.

Yoshi Bomb: Can break your shield if he baits you (most Yoshis usually do it after a Jab or Grab Release) but is highly punishable if it fails. It also has low priority and can just be challenged outright with Uair or Usmash

Dair: His best anti-shield move, and deals a ton of damage if you get hit by it. Even then its very unsafe on shield and usually doesn't enough damage to break you

Yoshi also has a hard time killing us despite his high damage output, again due to his inability operate against shields as well as lacking a consistent kill confirm. Meanwhile, we can edgeguard him pretty well with Bair (which breaks his Double Jump Armor at 73% with the 3rd & last hit) and Metal Blade kill confirms still work wonders against him. He's OK at killing our landings with Uair/Usmash if he has rage and is alright at edgeguarding, but that's about it. He's also probably one of the easiest characters to Kameme combo: being an air-based character who needs to approach from the air as well as his giant nose.

Imo, the only thing Yoshi has over us is being much better at racking up damage, combo breaks with DJ armor and Nair, and the mixup potential he has with eggs. But in the end, I feel MM still has more overall control of the matchup, and imo Yoshi in general just isn't scary as long as you have an understanding of the character: his tools just aren't consistent or reliable enough to be a threat.

I don't have it on me, but I believe Sky Williams made a MU chart awhile back (I believe I found it from his Twitter account) and also put as a -1 for Yoshi himself, if that says anything.