Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[Admiral Pit]

While I like the voice, I'm still sad that the Palutena player isn't great. Not to be overconfident, but I think I'd probably be better after an hour of playing. But again, the game is still young. Oh well.
Anyways, I like the voice so far, but still wanna hear the others, including what she calls the wing attacks and light pillar. Oh, and her victory pose voices. I must hear those (and Pit's) as well!

 

[FloatingMew]

While I like the voice, I'm still sad that the Palutena player isn't great. Not to be overconfident, but I think I'd probably be better after an hour of playing. But again, the game is still young. Oh well.
Anyways, I like the voice so far, but still wanna hear the others, including what she calls the wing attacks and light pillar. Oh, and her victory pose voices. I must hear those (and Pit's) as well!

Agreed, and it seems Palutena only says the move every other time... never knew that. So... This may be a stupid question... The voice clips in her trailer are the exact ones being used in the game when she attacks right?

 

[Hydde]

Custom moves should be definitely legal in tournies. Im seeing already some characters that improve a lot solely from customs.

This will be awesome for tournies.

On the other hand, its kind of sad that them are not permitted in for glory

 

[FloatingMew]

Custom moves should be definitely legal in tournies. Im seeing already some characters that improve a lot solely from customs.

This will be awesome for tournies.

On the other hand, its kind of sad that them are not permitted in for glory

Are they permitted in For Fun?

 

[meleebrawler]

Are they permitted in For Fun?

No, only with friends.

 

[FloatingMew]

No, only with friends.

Sucks, why Sakurai, WHY?

 

[Admiral Pit]

Agreed, and it seems Palutena only says the move every other time... never knew that. So... This may be a stupid question... The voice clips in her trailer are the exact ones being used in the game when she attacks right?

I think they are. It's pretty good, so let's hope the rest of her pretty voice will be great. <3

@ Hydde Agreeing. And Palutena's one of the big ones since it opens the door to a "speedy" Palutena playstyle through Jump Glide and Super Speed as opposed to a camp-stopping style of the default one. Customs have to become a thing! D:

 

[Banjodorf]

Sucks, why Sakurai, WHY?

Something about them being "Overpowered or unbalanced." Which is funny because most of the special moves seem either useless or incredibly niche. There are a few key ones like Meteor Bombs that seem awesomely useful though.

He should've just said he wanted "With Anyone" to be a "jump in and play" experience, without having to worry about stuff like custom moves your opponent might have. I'd have bought that rather than "they're too OP", because most of them definitely aren't.

 

[Hydde]

Something about them being "Overpowered or unbalanced." Which is funny because most of the special moves seem either useless or incredibly niche. There are a few key ones like Meteor Bombs that seem awesomely useful though.

He should've just said he wanted "With Anyone" to be a "jump in and play" experience, without having to worry about stuff like custom moves your opponent might have. I'd have bought that rather than "they're too OP", because most of them definitely aren't.

All of this indeed.

 

[NinjaLink]

Something about them being "Overpowered or unbalanced." Which is funny because most of the special moves seem either useless or incredibly niche. There are a few key ones like Meteor Bombs that seem awesomely useful though.

He should've just said he wanted "With Anyone" to be a "jump in and play" experience, without having to worry about stuff like custom moves your opponent might have. I'd have bought that rather than "they're too OP", because most of them definitely aren't.

Meteor bombs have more weaknesses than you might think.

 

[Burigu]

is broken

Edit: Fixed it on my own

Before anyone bash me about this I am going to clarify I know how to speak spanish, that said OMG! the spanish narrator is terrible! I am glad english is always present in the games. This video was horrible, yes we heard her english voice but the camera and the awful way the user keep spamming Counter, I bet I could have played better than him just based on my experience in the demo and the experience of 15 years playing this series behind my back.

Right now I am not really concerned about customs being allowed or not, my first priority is to have and enjoy the game, maybe along the way I can challenge some of you with customs on, I was planning in maining Palutena either way and by maining I mean playing well with all of her options, but I have to say I have become a fan of her default specials

 

[Neo Zero]

I totally agree; I've been waiting for it to happen for a while now lol

the typical stickied threads I see are a social thread, video thread, matchup discussion, and moveset/a detailed guide to the character. *cough*we have a video thread already*cough* and that matchup thread idea that you had earlier could probably serve well as a sticky!

It's kind of hard to make a guide yet since most of us haven't played the game though

Stickied yours, the Q&A and Aero's thread (Aero's is more a placeholder until a proper moveset thread is made)

I would like to but I am not a mod so this is in your capable hands

Being a mod technically means I'm more like a janitor. It just helps most mods like being community leaders as well, but we all encourage you guys to work together to make a wonderful community too.

Incidentally, I'll eventually be making a new social thread, since all the speculation socials are getting closed down for the most part.

 

[Admiral Pit]

If we get a new social thread, it'll be time to upgrade the name, but to what? Is there a hot spring or other reference we can use?
And I like how much cleaner the Palutena boards are. Let's hope we continue to do this.

 

[Jae]

Is there no "player list" thread for Palutena yet?

 

[Burigu]

Stickied yours, the Q&A and Aero's thread (Aero's is more a placeholder until a proper moveset thread is made)

Being a mod technically means I'm more like a janitor. It just helps most mods like being community leaders as well, but we all encourage you guys to work together to make a wonderful community too.

Incidentally, I'll eventually be making a new social thread, since all the speculation socials are getting closed down for the most part.

O well I didn't mean to say you have to do everything, I was talking about sticking threads and that arrange stuff, of course I will help keep this place clean and tidy, I like being in this comunity and I actively try to do it a better place

Also wouldn't be cool to have Skyworld, Underworld and Forces of Nature themes of this new uptade for the 3ds?

My biggest fear is that Kid Icarus Uprising is an "old" 3ds game now so not sure if we will get some love.

If we get a new social thread, it'll be time to upgrade the name, but to what? Is there a hot spring or other reference we can use?
And I like how much cleaner the Palutena boards are. Let's hope we continue to do this.

It is natural, since speculation is over most people left or are gathering on the Group section, fine by me it is not like we dealed with tons of trolls here, we were always really lucky

 

[Hydde]

More matches from Shockwave 2:

Vs. Pwing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2xOQ79yhFk&list=UUuBhMqosgW-ECZjJZ9pv0Dg

Vs. Bwett - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N74JlkuLoVs&list=UUuBhMqosgW-ECZjJZ9pv0Dg

Vs. Zeph - (first game) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_amUJsBvkco&list=UUuBhMqosgW-ECZjJZ9pv0Dg

Wow wow! nice footage right there!.

It seems i was not totally wrong when i said that palu was goign to have a difficult time against "in your face " opponents like sheik and mac.

You could notice the difficultties he had dealing with little mac ground game. I suppouse that one of the main problems with this kind of fighters.. is that palu's auto reticle is VERY unsafe on use because how fast they can close up to you, bait a reticle and punish. But at the same time you could not go gung ho against little mac because he just have too many good and strong ground attacks and smashes is not even funny.

IN the villager game, the guessing game with his proyectiles was easier because of the wind up they have, but with sheik it was a different story that turned more into a guessing game than anything with those needles, in short the barrier was not effective.

I would be interestuing to see how plautena players develop their game to deal with this situations... because i can see plautena having a lot of troubles with this kind of characters.

 

[Maraphy]

Incidentally, I'll eventually be making a new social thread, since all the speculation socials are getting closed down for the most part.

Can I ask, what's the reasoning behind this? :Z i've been seeing this happen on all the boards and i'm not really understanding it

it kinda makes some character forums seem barren

 

[Hydde]

One thing i would like to aggregate on my previous post.

In those kind of matches were reticule and barrier are like a surplus...is where other custom moves could enter into the equation.

 

[Tristan_win]

If we get a new social thread, it'll be time to upgrade the name, but to what? Is there a hot spring or other reference we can use?
And I like how much cleaner the Palutena boards are. Let's hope we continue to do this.

I always find it so interesting to see what culture gets developed around a character board. If you guys are serious about improvement I suggest looking at the Ness forum. It's very organized and well put together to the point that I want a excuse to go back to visit. What's also important but to a lesser extent is for the people who get their threads sticky to be either dedicated members of the community or moderators. The reason why I think this is because it better guarantee the longevity of the thread that requires regular original post updates and there's nothing worst then having a thread unsticky because the author quit. It's the sign that the forum is dying, the same can be said about forum shrinkage but that's just a unstoppable effect of time.

To be blunt if I look past some of the years of experience I have talking to some of the Sheik boards members (something really hard to do) I currently like this forum more and when smash4 comes out I will want to support you guys as much as I can because of how awesome you all so far seem to be.

Also I think there's a overwhelming majority of you that likes anime and I think that's just swell =)

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Also I think there's a overwhelming majority of you that likes anime and I think that's just swell =)

You don't say. . .

 

[Admiral Pit]

One thing i would like to aggregate on my previous post.

In those kind of matches were reticule and barrier are like a surplus...is where other custom moves could enter into the equation.

I know Fireworks would be good, and Jump Glide for recovery. Honestly those 4 specials (or Explosive Flame) will be my main build. We'll see what happens, but I know I want more than 1 Palutena build to not only keep some players guessing, but for the sake of versatility... Even if that means making use of Heavenly Light somewhere.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

I know Fireworks would be good, and Jump Glide for recovery. Honestly those 4 specials (or Explosive Flame) will be my main build. We'll see what happens, but I know I want more than 1 Palutena build to not only keep some players guessing, but for the sake of versatility... Even if that means making use of Heavenly Light somewhere.

Yeah the 2/3/2/3 build is the one I've been using since the beginning. It's really strong for a lot of match ups.

There are times though where you'll want the reflector or counter.

I would consider using Heavenly Light in doubles honestly. In a 2 v 1 situation, no hitstun means you don't care if it hits your partner so much as it is important to build up the enemy and then someone fish for a KO blow.

Edit: In case people don't know, the 2/3/2/3 build is Explosive Flame, Glide, Super Speed, Fireworks

 

[Tristan_win]

@ TsuKiyoMe Wait you already have the game? Can you test something real quick then, could you see if you can dash grab out of super speed?

Edit: Thank you for the quick response!

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

@ TsuKiyoMe Wait you already have the game? Can you test something real quick then, could you see if you can dash grab out of super speed?

No, I have played a fair amount though on juiceDoom/Max Ketchum's game.

I just was the guy who actually sat there and tried to figure out Palutena while everyone else dismissed her as garbage. I did a fair amount of research on her (you can find it on Reddit, most people here seemed to dismiss my initial findings)

I'm almost positive you cannot grab as the only options I remember are Dash Attack and Jump out of Super Speed. Considering Grab is macro'd to prioritize Attacks over Grabs in anything except a neutral situation or holding left/right, I do not think it'd be possible (unless holding a direction matters).

I will ask NinjaLink to test it though. He was kind enough to reconfirm my suspicions that Fireworks were Invulnerable on startup.

Feel free to ask me any other questions though.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Yeah the 2/3/2/3 build is the one I've been using since the beginning. It's really strong for a lot of match ups.

There are times though where you'll want the reflector or counter.

I would consider using Heavenly Light in doubles honestly. In a 2 v 1 situation, no hitstun means you don't care if it hits your partner so much as it is important to build up the enemy and then someone fish for a KO blow.

Edit: In case people don't know, the 2/3/2/3 build is Explosive Flame, Glide, Super Speed, Fireworks

I may use Counter in one of my builds, if I can develop a "powerhouse" Palutena or something of the sort, or one to counter powerhouses and use their power against them.

No, I have played a fair amount though on juiceDoom/Max Ketchum's game.

I just was the guy who actually sat there and tried to figure out Palutena while everyone else dismissed her as garbage. I did a fair amount of research on her (you can find it on Reddit, most people here seemed to dismiss my initial findings)

I'm almost positive you cannot grab as the only options I remember are Dash Attack and Jump out of Super Speed. Considering Grab is macro'd to prioritize Attacks over Grabs in anything except a neutral situation or holding left/right, I do not think it'd be possible (unless holding a direction matters).

I will ask NinjaLink to test it though. He was kind enough to reconfirm my suspicions that Fireworks were Invulnerable on startup.

Feel free to ask me any other questions though.

I'd also want to ask if Heavenly Light neutralizes some projectiles, and if it does, how strong of projectiles? I'm sure each of her custom specials will have its own use, and I don't think Heavenly Light is gonna be used much.

 

[Locuan]

I just was the guy who actually sat there and tried to figure out Palutena while everyone else dismissed her as garbage. I did a fair amount of research on her (you can find it on Reddit, most people here seemed to dismiss my initial findings).

Game has been out for 2 weeks now in Japan? And already people are labeling characters as good or bad. Well it is to be expected.

I have more general questions though. Seeing as tilt attacks are powerful but slow, when did you find yourself using those moves? Simply as punish tools, spacing tools, or both? Any examples?

 

[Tristan_win]

No, I have played a fair amount though on juiceDoom/Max Ketchum's game.

I just was the guy who actually sat there and tried to figure out Palutena while everyone else dismissed her as garbage. I did a fair amount of research on her (you can find it on Reddit, most people here seemed to dismiss my initial findings)

I'm almost positive you cannot grab as the only options I remember are Dash Attack and Jump out of Super Speed. Considering Grab is macro'd to prioritize Attacks over Grabs in anything except a neutral situation or holding left/right, I do not think it'd be possible (unless holding a direction matters).

I will ask NinjaLink to test it though. He was kind enough to reconfirm my suspicions that Fireworks were Invulnerable on startup.

Feel free to ask me any other questions though.

Thank you for the quick response! It would be great if Ninjalink would be willing to test this for us but something else you could suggest to him would be to test for jump cancel grabs. So far they haven't been confirm yet and if they are in the game then Palutena could bypass not being able to grab normally out of super speed.

edit: For those who want to watch as much Palutena as possible I suggest looking up this on youtube

スマブラ3ds パルテナ Which means: Super smash bro 3ds Palutena

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

I may use Counter in one of my builds, if I can develop a "powerhouse" Palutena or something of the sort, or one to counter powerhouses and use their power against them.




I'd also want to ask if Heavenly Light neutralizes some projectiles, and if it does, how strong of projectiles? I'm sure each of her custom specials will have its own use, and I don't think Heavenly Light is gonna be used much.

Don't worry about labeling builds or having builds preset. You can change everything on the fly via CSS. Just change the moves based on the matchup. The only reason I even picked up Palutena (I have never played KI:U) is because I'm a firm believer that more options/tools makes the character better and more enjoyable as they have less weaknesses to worry about.

As far as Heavenly Light goes, it doesn't stop projectiles as far as I can recall. Most of the findings I found you can find in Ninja Link's custom move video for Palutena. I slipped in a bunch of info in the video if you actually are willing to sit through all of it. Things like approach setups, ways to go under stages, etc.

Game has been out for 2 weeks now in Japan? And already people are labeling characters as good or bad. Well it is to be expected.

I have more general questions though. Seeing as tilt attacks are powerful but slow, when did you find yourself using those moves? Simply as punish tools, spacing tools, or both? Any examples?

Don't listen to labels on who is good/bad. Play the game. Formulate your own opinion. That's why I still played Palu even though people were saying she wasn't good when I first arrived at my friend's place.

As for tilts, primarily for spacing. Dashing away, pivot FTilt is a good spacing tool. Up Tilt is phenomenal and awesome out of Glide, Air Dash, FAir for a string. DTilt is good for people who can't sweet spot the edge easily.

They're not the best tilts but they have uses.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

I'm almost positive you cannot grab as the only options I remember are Dash Attack and Jump out of Super Speed. Considering Grab is macro'd to prioritize Attacks over Grabs in anything except a neutral situation or holding left/right, I do not think it'd be possible (unless holding a direction matters).

In D1's character analysis he shows you can cancel the dash attack out of superspeed to grab

http://youtu.be/G-obKyD8LOg?t=48m

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

In D1's character analysis he shows you can cancel the dash attack out of superspeed to grab

http://youtu.be/G-obKyD8LOg?t=48m

Good catch. I forgot when we were going over that on D1's stream. So there you have it.

Edit: After rewatching NinjaLink's video again I feel like an idiot.

I even say myself that you can do any option you could do out of a dash. /facepalm

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

now all we need to do is figure out a way to shield out of super speed to make it absolutely op... just imagine shield/spotdodge/attack/grab/cross-up being all available from super speed

 

[Tristan_win]

Super speed is now amazing and now I think Palutena could be better then mid tier.

That's all I wanted.

 

[Admiral Pit]

@ TsuKiyoMe
Don't worry. I saw and definitely enjoyed the vid, especially with the silly Super Speed and "going under the stage" silliness. I want that in one of my builds, and see how many ppl call it OP'd, or just tease players with it. Like I said, she's gonna be a fun character, but definitely one that takes time to get used to mainly because you gotta get used to each of her specials to completely master her.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

now all we need to do is figure out a way to shield out of super speed to make it absolutely op... just imagine shield/spotdodge/attack/grab/cross-up being all available from super speed

That would be glorious but I don't think it's going to happen.

 

[Locuan]

Don't listen to labels on who is good/bad. Play the game. Formulate your own opinion. That's why I still played Palu even though people were saying she wasn't good when I first arrived at my friend's place.

As for tilts, primarily for spacing. Dashing away, pivot FTilt is a good spacing tool. Up Tilt is phenomenal and awesome out of Glide, Air Dash, FAir for a string. DTilt is good for people who can't sweet spot the edge easily.

They're not the best tilts but they have uses.

Regarding the first point, I agree. It is just worth noting how quickly people can jump to conclusions.

As for the questions I asked, interesting. I will have to test it out once I get the game then. It should take a while to get used to.

 

[Tristan_win]

So Palutena might have a good aggressive and zoning game (Her dash attack is little mac caliber if you ask me) but now that I'm really looking at her I can't help but notice she doesn't have any particular strong kill moves. It's fantastic she has dair for spiking and I know uair can kill but I can't remember a time beside landing a uair near the top of the screen where Palutena has killed normally before 120%.

I haven't look deeply into her killing powers yet but that could prevent her from being high tier.

 

[Starbound]

According to Aerodrome, the bottom portion of USmash (the 16% hit) kills everyone by 130%. This was before vectoring was found though so it may not be totally accurate.

I've seen a lot of people use Uair a lot with her for killing, but I have no idea why.

In general though, everyone dies super late in this game due the combination of vectoring, ledge mechanics and huge blast zones. I saw a livestream where Rosalina (fourth lightest character in the game) survived well into the 100%s (I think like 140) before getting KOed. So a lack of killing power is a problem for most of the cast, not just Palutena.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Wow wow! nice footage right there!.

It seems i was not totally wrong when i said that palu was goign to have a difficult time against "in your face " opponents like sheik and mac.

You could notice the difficultties he had dealing with little mac ground game. I suppouse that one of the main problems with this kind of fighters.. is that palu's auto reticle is VERY unsafe on use because how fast they can close up to you, bait a reticle and punish. But at the same time you could not go gung ho against little mac because he just have too many good and strong ground attacks and smashes is not even funny.

IN the villager game, the guessing game with his proyectiles was easier because of the wind up they have, but with sheik it was a different story that turned more into a guessing game than anything with those needles, in short the barrier was not effective.

I would be interestuing to see how plautena players develop their game to deal with this situations... because i can see plautena having a lot of troubles with this kind of characters.

I think Sheik is manageable for Palutena, but Little Mac makes my brain hurt; if I can learn to consistently gimp him, it should be doable. I know I do get opportunities, so it's a matter of execution.

 

[meleebrawler]

Is there no "player list" thread for Palutena yet?

Has anybody ever commented on your avatar after Project X Zone came out?

 

[Neo Zero]

Can I ask, what's the reasoning behind this? :Z i've been seeing this happen on all the boards and i'm not really understanding it

it kinda makes some character forums seem barren

Sorry about the delay, replying on my phone never works well so I aited till I was home.

It kind of ties into my joking janitor comment earlier. A lot of forums were very cluttered when speculation was still a thing, and socials are no exception. It's more to give a clean slate for everyone who's coming here post speculation to be able to chill and do their own thing without feeling intimidated by a 200+ page thread, as well as make it easy for discussion to be post speculation. After all, every social before was a thread made to support a character into making it into Sm4sh, and a lot of the discussion you'd see early on reflects as such.

Also, some cool stuff I tested out earlier

-I'm sure everyone is aware of the multi hitting move spikes, like the Greninja and MK video's. Palutena has this in both Uair (can be used to similar effect to Greninja's Uair, though spacing the spiking portion to hit without the finisher is very hard) and Nair (this one is much less useful). Both are pretty much located throughout the move up until the point where it ends. For best effect, land the 2nd last hit it seems
-Down Throw is amazing. This might of been said before, but you can combo Fair, Uair (Dthrow Uair is a REALLY good kill option), Nair and Bair. Hitting the Bair is REALLY tough though, you basically have to dash forward and instantly RAR the aerial for it to combo. When you do though, it's 17% of pure bliss that can lead to an edge guard/gimp. Sadly, Dair I could never get to be a true combo no matter how hard I tried
-Speaking of Down Throw, something I've been trying is this nifty little string at low percents
Down Throw>FF Fair>Jab>Regrab>Down Throw>FF Fair>Jab (This ones really tough to hit, probably easier to just dash grab)>Regrab>Down Throw>Bair.

Any Dthrow to Aerial is a true combo, but the rest is all string based. Feels so good to get it though. Look forward to testing it out more when I have two copies on hand.