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Miiverse post for melee physics

kiw1

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
106
Well, since nintendo said at e3 that they take suggestions from the community, why we dont try to create ONE post and "yeah" it up? Sadly only people with a wii u can do it, but we might as well just try, though we should do it in a short time period so it gets more attention.

Thoughts? especially im not even sure if we should manage "wavedash" (the old air dodge would be enough) or l-cancelling (do they even know what it is?)
 

kiw1

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
106
well im atlking about ONE post to do this and not just be vocal on miiverse, i think its more important to do 1 big post on miiverse that gets many votes + comments, the thread you mentioned is like "hey would be cool if you do this"
 

MasterOfKnees

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Why would we want to go backwards instead of forward? I'd much prefer we get a new style of gameplay.
 

FalKoopa

Rainbow Waifu
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Well, I'd rather have the new physics and not Melee physics again.

C'mon, who doesn't want Project: M 2? :p
 

Tweezer Salad

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
185
Why would we want to go backwards instead of forward? I'd much prefer we get a new style of gameplay.
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have something new too as long as it plays good. But for all we know they could be taking the lazy way out and just copy pasting an existing smash bros game style, and if they are, at least make it like Melee's. No one would complain.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have something new too as long as it plays good. But for all we know they could be taking the lazy way out and just copy pasting an existing smash bros game style, and if they are, at least make it like Melee's. No one would complain.
I would complain, and many more would probably too. Remember, the haters are always more vocal than the supporters. Some of us actually prefer Brawl's style over Melee's, though I'd like to see them get the best of both of those games' engines and fuse them together to become the best of both worlds. Make it so it is decently fast, but don't make that speed rely on L-cancelling or wave dashing, the farther away such techniques are from the game the better imo.
 

kiw1

Smash Apprentice
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Apr 14, 2013
Messages
106
well sorry but brawl was gameplay wise a step back and not further, so if they got more influence by brawl than melee its not really a step forward
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
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21,181
well sorry but brawl was gameplay wise a step back and not further, so if they got more influence by brawl than melee its not really a step forward

Holy crap guys, he's right! All those years we were having fun was just some weird form of hypnotism!
 

MasterOfKnees

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well sorry but brawl was gameplay wise a step back and not further, so if they got more influence by brawl than melee its not really a step forward
It's not even opinion that the engine has evolved, it's fact. Brawl's engine is a much refined version of Melee's, and thus it's evolution, a step forward. If it had gone back to the N64 engine it'd have been a step backwards, but they instead developed Melee further in the way they wanted to. That's evolution, aka moving forward, whether it moved in the direction you wanted to is another question and is entirely subjective, and thus can't be stated as a fact.
 

kiw1

Smash Apprentice
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Apr 14, 2013
Messages
106
No knockback stacking + tripping is evolving? what the hell? the engine got for a fighting game worse so its NOT evolving in a good way
 

Renji64

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Brawl players are delusional if they think SSBB was a step forward I would prefer a style greater than melee and brawl but maybe a melee mode at the most so it can still be competitive.
 
Joined
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I'm really sick of these ridiculous and sarcastic responses to people who want Melee physics. The reason why is that as soon as someone hears Melee they get some negative stigma about it; I believe it is because they really don't know anything about Melee Physics besides wavedashing. The Melee physics engine consisted of:

1. Momentum Transfer: Any momentum gained by movement on the ground or air is carried over when you go ground-to-air and vis versa. When you run and jump, the momentum stays with you. When you airdodge into the ground, the momentum carries you over. This is what made wavedashing possible. In SSB64 and Brawl running did not allow you to carry your momentum over. In Brawl this created limited approach capability and just did really make sense. If I see Sonic run then jump he should fly, not cancel all of his momentum with a barely passable leap.

1. Variable shielding: Depending on how much pressure you applied to R or L triggers (Or press Z) the shield in Melee would either be compact or large and transparent. The regular shield was good for taking solid hits while the larger shield was good for preventing shield pressure since it pushes you away after hit. It was also used for some ledge grabbing tricks against certain characters when they recovered.

3. Dash Dancing: Extremely important spacing tool. It was in the original E For All demo for Brawl. Great for mind games, Tech chase, spacing, pivot grabs, whatever. I really don't need to explain this mechanic.

4. Meteor Canceling: Pressing jump at the right time after being hit by some meteor attacks allow you cancel out the downward momentum and a flash would appear. There were some true spiked that you cannon meteor cancel out of, but I feel that the meteor cancel should be universal, just harder to do at higher percentages. This would have been useful in Brawl against Falco's ridiculous chain grab to spike game.

I feel like these minor additions would be very useful to the game. All you people bashing Melee for little things don't even know what the hell you're talking about half the time. Do yourself a favor and take a trip to the Melee section once in a while. There are sticky threads that tell you all about the game in detail.
 

MasterOfKnees

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No knockback stacking + tripping is evolving? what the hell? the engine got for a fighting game worse so its NOT evolving in a good way
It's evolving and moving forward nonetheless, whether you like it or not. Tripping is a new addition, it sucks, but it's still evolution. As I said, doesn't matter if the game is steering the direction you want it to, it's moving forward nonetheless, because it isn't copying the past.

Anyways, I'm pretty much done discussing this, don't want to deal with all the super aggressive Melee fanboys that are incoming.
 
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It's evolving and moving forward nonetheless, whether you like it or not. Tripping is a new addition, it sucks, but it's still evolution. As I said, doesn't matter if the game is steering the direction you want it to, it's moving forward nonetheless, because it isn't copying the past.

Anyways, I'm pretty much done discussing this, don't want to deal with all the super aggressive Melee fanboys that are incoming.

Your definition of evolution, while accurate, is very vague. Evolution isn't merely defined as a blind step forward; it's adaption. As the characters gain more tools to use, as should the engine, not take away from it. Tripping as an attack mechanic is good, randomly tripping as you are running or doing an attack for no reason, is a great step i the wrong direction.

Edit: http://kotaku.com/no-more-tripping-in-the-new-smash-bros-513187770 let's leave the theory to Darwin.
 

Saiko

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
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It's evolving and moving forward nonetheless, whether you like it or not. Tripping is a new addition, it sucks, but it's still evolution. As I said, doesn't matter if the game is steering the direction you want it to, it's moving forward nonetheless, because it isn't copying the past.

Anyways, I'm pretty much done discussing this, don't want to deal with all the super aggressive Melee fanboys that are incoming.
Change for the sake of change shouldn't be an ideal to hold on a pedestal especially considering your sense of "evolving" does'nt seem good in and of itself for the game if you at all try to justify tripping. Don't fix what ain't broke, yeah? In that sense I would be more than happy if the new Smash distanced itself from Brawl mechanics but it doesn't mean I want a Melee 2.0. Just something that can take advantage of what Smash has to offer in its fundamental core mechanics.
 

Spelt

BRoomer
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Feb 6, 2009
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11,841
Your definition of evolution, while accurate, is very vague. Evolution isn't merely defined as a blind step forward; it's adaption. As the characters gain more tools to use, as should the engine, not take away from it. Tripping as an attack mechanic is good, randomly tripping as you are running or doing an attack for no reason, is a great step i the wrong direction.

Edit: http://kotaku.com/no-more-tripping-in-the-new-smash-bros-513187770 let's leave the theory to Darwin.
omg why haven't I seen more of your posts?

endless amusement.
 

Gardex

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1. Variable shielding: Depending on how much pressure you applied to R or L triggers (Or press Z) the shield in Melee would either be compact or large and transparent. The regular shield was good for taking solid hits while the larger shield was good for preventing shield pressure since it pushes you away after hit. It was also used for some ledge grabbing tricks against certain characters when they recovered.

3. Dash Dancing: Extremely important spacing tool. It was in the original E For All demo for Brawl. Great for mind games, Tech chase, spacing, pivot grabs, whatever. I really don't need to explain this mechanic.

4. Meteor Canceling: Pressing jump at the right time after being hit by some meteor attacks allow you cancel out the downward momentum and a flash would appear. There were some true spiked that you cannon meteor cancel out of, but I feel that the meteor cancel should be universal, just harder to do at higher percentages. This would have been useful in Brawl against Falco's ridiculous chain grab to spike game.

I feel like these minor additions would be very useful to the game. All you people bashing Melee for little things don't even know what the hell you're talking about half the time. Do yourself a favor and take a trip to the Melee section once in a while. There are sticky threads that tell you all about the game in detail.
The removal of variable shielding can be blamed on the hardware.
There are no analog buttons on the Wiimote, Nunchuck and Classic controller. This probably caused the removal of the analog shielding because they wanted all of the control schemes to be able to do the same thing.

Dash dancing is still in Brawl, although trickier and more limited because of tripping(and less useful simply because of how the game is played).

You're flat out wrong about meteor canceling. It's possible to meteor cancel every single "spike" in Brawl that I know of. In other words: Spikes don't exist in Brawl, only meteor smashes. The term "spike" is still used, though.
Falco's CG to spike is hardly scary for most characters.
 

Latias

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
415
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CO
They decided on not doing melee physics, according to an interview it's between brawl and melee.
 
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