Mewtwo Patch (Version 1.0.6[7]) Thread [Updated: May 1st]

[Terotrous]

Updated my post on the previous page with more gifs on Pac-man's grabs. Hopefully that's proof enough that the grab wasn't changed.

Could maybe use a max range grab gif to show (the lack of) grab hitbox changes.

Anyway, I note that the OP has been updated to include hitbox data for Zelda. Did the datafiles get posted?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Use the in-thread search function

I have not been able to find this search function since the forum move back in 2012
Unless you mean Search forums and namesearch, then nvm.

Cause the bar to search for things in the thread you're in specifically has definitely been gone since the move since it used to be where "watch thread" button is.

 

[Yikarur]

Pit's dthrow is unchanged.

 

[Shaya]

I have not been able to find this search function since the forum move back in 2012
Unless you mean Search forums and namesearch, then nvm.

Cause the bar to search for things in the thread you're in specifically has definitely been gone since the move since it used to be where "watch thread" button is.

 

[Ultinarok]

So basically, what's being confirmed is that this patch did almost nothing but nerf Diddy, Sheik and Sonic. No real buffs or changes to most of the cast, and some simple bug fixes and property changes on multi-hit moves. Fair enough, but still kinda disappointing. At least the game is pretty balanced now anyway.

 

[Yikarur]

Lylat Cruise cancel bug seems fixed.
I cannot reproduce the Wuhu Island Boat glitch after thousands of tries by copying multiple Youtube Videos positioning.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

@ Shaya it was suggested earlier but IDK if you saw, but the Wuhu glitch should be moved to general engine changes since Ness wasn't the only character that could do it. (He was just the most well known.)

Also I'm not seeing Marth anywhere in the OP.

 

[Quickhero]

@ Ultinarok Small buffs/nerfs really do make a difference. Marth only got a much more reliable DB (and somehow some better true combos, but we need frame data to confirm how it works lol), but it basically makes him have a much better neutral and make him a lot better. Similarly, we got small nerfs to Diddy that lowered all his current "jank" and reduced it while still making him a great character and easily (one of the) best characters in the game unless something gets discovered.

Don't underestimate the power of small buffs/nerfs, they go far man.

 

[Conda]

Do we have confirmation on how Marth's DB was changed?

 

[exnecross]

So basically, what's being confirmed is that this patch did almost nothing but nerf Diddy, Sheik and Sonic. No real buffs or changes to most of the cast, and some simple bug fixes and property changes on multi-hit moves. Fair enough, but still kinda disappointing. At least the game is pretty balanced now anyway.

Over all it was a pretty good patch.

Good:
Diddy nerf
Sheik nerf
Sonic nerf
Luma nerf (should have been more)
Lucina buff (should have been more)
Kirby buff

Not gonna get into everything though, but most changes were good. The buffs for the mid-to-low tiers were too small though, but I can understand them not wanting to mess with the meta TOO much. It's still early.

 

[Sinister Slush]

View attachment 47721

Not sure if I'm blind or if it's a staff only thing but this is what I see when I click search forum button at the top.

Spoiler

Search everything for one below

Thought maybe clicking or switching some of the things like Most X or relevance would make "search this forum only" or "Search this thread only" would pop up but it didn't.

 

[KingOfPlasma]

Really glad Lylat Cruise was made easier to recover on​

 

[Shaya]

The lack of Marth in OP should be the sign of something, right?
I do have a big titled thing saying "Characters seemingly not changed".
With a few characters not listed, crazy mindgames

I'll reserve from confirming on Marth dancing blade, dthrow **** is a repeat of last patch of confirmation bias.
Yes it seems to work better. God knows how or why and unless people have specific side by side scenarios for someone kind enough to check (I've already asked for some, which came back as indifferent), it's safer to sit back, relax and kill people at 90% a lot more often with a wry smile.

 

[aleckermit]

Clash Tournament's channel is pumping out excellent patch change videos, they're using a wavebird controller to play two versions of the game at once and testing all the moves of each character and waiting for desyncs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtSljkQ_Ndw

 

[GeneralLedge]

On an aside, sweet zombie moses the Reddit threads are giving me cancer. People are still trying to push pacman's grab as 'better than before' and 'definitely higher tier'. People are saying Charizard and Palutena are worse than pre-patch. (BAD TOUCH)

And they're getting upvoted. This is making me dizzy.

 

[Firefoxx]

Lylat Cruise cancel bug seems fixed.
I cannot reproduce the Wuhu Island Boat glitch after thousands of tries by copying multiple Youtube Videos positioning.

Ditto on Wuhu Island stuff here. I'm trying with Lucario (who is supposed to be the character its easiest to do it with) and I'm not getting anything

 

[Alex Night]

They didn't want it in as it wasn't intentional. It's fair to expect this level of polish on their game mechanics coding and designs.

It'd be like if there was a similar technique in Dark Souls - Miyazaki would patch it out as it wasn't intended, and he is a VERY deliberate designer, much like Sakurai.

Please don't start with this... Many people have been over this subject a thousand times with wavedashing and L-Canceling in Melee and Project M. This tech wasn't even game-breaking or made the game not polished. It added depth to a game that is getting less and less depth with each update.

 

[Gatoray]

I think everyone should just wait for the data dump at this point. It's making me anxious reading all these deconfirmed patch change reports. Hopefully the misinformation doesn't spread.

 

[HeavenStar]

I think everyone should just wait for the data dump at this point. It's making me anxious reading all these deconfirmed patch change reports. Hopefully the misinformation doesn't spread.

Same here, though I guess it's only natural for people to speculate whenever anything new comes.

 

[GeneralLedge]

@ LordWilliam1234 : Quote from reddit after linking your Pacman post:

Comparing the pre-updated grab to a pre-updated grab on a different level doesn't prove anything. If you look at those comparisons the grab (WiFi) extends out and lingers for several frames before retracting.

Most obvious way to tell if it is pre/post update: After the update Pac Man's WiFi grab reaches it's maximum distance and immediately retracts. I am sitting here with my 3DS comparing the update to what those videos show and they are clearly not after the update.

What I am not 100% sure about but strongly suspect is that after the update the WiFi reach may have been reduced which combined with it not lingering at it's maximum length further decreases the amount of time his grab animation is out.

Obviously your testing methods are wrong, brah. This guy knows what's up. I'm bald now.

 

[Shaya]

Oh, Yikarur is here.

Yikarur sensei Yikarur sensei, does the Marth Dancing Blade strike true?
(I think someone mentioned Sheik being a good testing candidate at around 40%)

 

[Markus E-bear]

Dr. mario and Mewtwo are now able to wall jump.

Edit: I guess I forgot Dr. Mario could already wall jump.

 

[Thinkaman]

Dr. mario and Mewtwo are now able to wall jump

Dr. Mario could always wall jump.

And I'm having trouble testing Mewtwo in 1.0.5.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I think everyone should just wait for the data dump at this point. It's making me anxious reading all these deconfirmed patch change reports. Hopefully the misinformation doesn't spread.

Agreed. Do we have any idea when the data dump might be?

 

[Jams.]

Not sure if I'm blind or if it's a staff only thing but this is what I see when I click search forum button at the top.

Spoiler

Search everything for one below

Thought maybe clicking or switching some of the things like Most X or relevance would make "search this forum only" or "Search this thread only" would pop up but it didn't.

Not a mod only thing. You seem to be going to smashboards.com/search. What you need to do is just click the search bar when you're current viewing a thread. Hopefully this image provides more context for where the "search this thread only" function is.

Spoiler

 

[Sinister Slush]

I already found it, resume to discussion on patch.

 

[crashbfan]

Diddy's usmash does slightly less knockback, you can see it at 5:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtSljkQ_Ndw

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Okay, there is a difference between the 3DS and Wii U grabs for Pac-man. But only in animation.

On the 3DS, Pac-man's hand is tilted downwards more so it's further in front of him. And the graphic thus appears to be a bit shorter since a chunk of it closer to him doesn't appear, and it appears slightly later (and thus disappears slightly faster). However, aside from that, frame-wise and range-wise it appears to be exactly the same.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Agreed. Do we have any idea when the data dump might be?

I heard that Dantarion is out of town until the weekend.

 

[JohnnyFifth]

Pac Man could definitely not re-grab this quickly prior to the update. Notice how the grab retracts immediately after reaching maximum length instead of lingering like it used to. If you count the dark blue arches in the animation at maximum length you will notice that there are now only 6 dark blue lines instead of 8 like there used to be. This means that the animation time of the move going out takes 1/4 the time going out and back in. That combined with the move not lingering for several frames at the maximum length both make the animation significantly shorter from the first frame to the final frame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYx-uT5h7xU


New animation takes 1.25 seconds to complete from when you first input the grab then holding shield to indicate when the animation is complete. This was measured at 1/4 speed which took 5 seconds to complete. 5/4 = 1.25 seconds. The old animation based off the GIF takes about 2 full seconds to complete.

 

[Firefoxx]

About Marth's dancing blade (using Sheik at 40% and my test dummy) : I tested them side by side on different consoles so there was a lot of confimation bias stuff due to controls but the one thing I can't replicate on the new patch is Side Side Side Side whiffing if you are standing close but not touching. But even replicating that pre-patch was really difficult because it requires precise spacing.

Pac Man could definitely not re-grab this quickly prior to the update. Notice how the grab retracts immediately after reaching maximum length instead of lingering like it used to. If you count the dark blue arches in the animation at maximum length you will notice that there are now only 6 dark blue lines instead of 8 like there used to be. This means that the animation time of the move going out takes 1/4 the time going out and back in. That combined with the move not lingering for several frames at the maximum length both make the animation significantly shorter from the first frame to the final frame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYx-uT5h7xU

My 3DS is still on 1.0.5 and it looks exactly the same as that vid. trying holding shield while the animation is playing, because on 3DS 1.0.5 Pac is holding his hand out for a while before he can actually shield.

Its actually a completely different animation. Not only is the tractor beam shorter on the 3DS, Pac doesn't hold his hand out the same way. On Wii U his 'fingers' are pointing like 85 degrees up while on 3DS his 'fingers' are pointing foward. The tractor beam travels and retracts faster but Pac still holds his hand out afterwards for a while before shielding. On the Wii U the moment the tractor beam retracts fully Pac can shield.

Functionally its still the same grab. (Though the 3DS animation displays the grabs properties more accurately)

 

[Thee Incubus]

This wasnt listed on the first post but can say with 100% certainty that now you cannot go past character select screen if all players are on same team. Before patch you could and it would just turn into a FFA. Used to accidently do this pre patch for stream and now cannot.

I think it got lost but this is a minor change they made I found out last night. I realize it is minor but just so all the new changes are listed, here it is.

 

[Zodiacx10]

little mac can now jump cancel his ko punch out of a dash and he then lunges forward...which is new

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

@ Thinkaman Would you mind checking ZSS dThrow ending lag please if you haven't yet?
It's most likely just me but I nailed the dThrow > uSpecial combo an awful lot today.

 

[Javln Mastr]

...You have no idea how happy I am about the gamer-tag being fixed.

 

[Takezo]

The only certain change for Marth is That Normal (side B[red]) Dancing Blade Combos into Fouth Hit now! ^^ Starting at zero to approx 72%-79%

Lucina's FSmash fully charged will do 2% more now. but I believe this very vaguely depicted in OP ^_^"

Please put this Marth info in OP! thank you!

Edit:Also put marth in OP! xD

@ Shaya

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Also I think I can confirm that DK's charge punch gets to full charge faster. Originally (Wii U 1.02) I counted 172 frames from start-up until the portrait's eyes flash (indicating full charge). Now I count 144.

whats the real time difference between 144 and 172 frames? 1 second?

 

[Terotrous]

whats the real time difference between 144 and 172 frames? 1 second?

Game runs 60fps, so 172 - 144 = 28 frames = half a second

Might not seem like much, but when you're trying to find space to charge the punch every half second counts.

 

[Takezo]

whats the real time difference between 144 and 172 frames? 1 second?

Game is 60 frames per second!
Do the math I cannot! xD

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Game is 60 frames per second!
Do the math I cannot! xD

ok believe it or not I was never much into frame data and did not know this o.o