Mewtwo Patch 1.1.3

[Sonicninja115]

I made a Nair KB guide a while ago. Please check it out in the Metagame thread or community guide.
Chiroz . I made the combo thread. And Nair is really good now, while before it was a bit more unreliable for combos.

So, the newest Nair KB thing I found is FF during Nair to make the opponent fall out right above you, allowing easy combos. I also give an explanation of what you described. Check out the threads, I have done a lot of work in the past few months. Metalex, Meleebrawler and I have done a lot of labbing and such.

And I can confirm that Nair to Usmash is not a new thing.


I have Uair info!

Dtilt-Utilt-Uair is still a 20% true combo

FF Uair-Utilt-Uair is still a 25% true combo

FF Uair-Fair trues

FF Uair-Usmash trues at low Percents.

FF Uair-Dair is a reliable mix-up.

FF Uair-Bair is Still a true combo

It is not a true combo, but FF Uair-Fair-Grounded follow-up seems rather safe.

FF Uair-Uair doesn't kill.

Can someone check FF Uair-Nair?

Oh, use the tip of Uair when landing. It is really easy to hit with now and puts you at an advantage against a shielding opponent.

FF Fair-Usmash doesn't combo.

Dair doesn't true into anything more as of yet. Dair-Utilt-Uair might be a kill combo if a platform is used.

There is more, but I don't have a lot of time.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Try Tipper Uar-Tipper-Uair-Fair. It seems pretty good. And Uair is a good juggling tool now.

Fair OoS doesn't seem too bad.

FF Uair- Nair seems to work

I think Utilt is more viable in general because of Uair buffs.

Dair is much easier to hit through a platform.

Landing back hit of Uair seems to be good for linking a Usmash or Utilt.

It is possible to have a SB with a hibox on a platform and also hit a grounded opponent.

Edit: SB jank, sorry for the dp

 

[Chiroz]

Yea, I think mostly we should be labbing U-Air and N-Air. Specially U-Air since it wasn't buffed or nerfed, it was changed and we should treat it as a new move in a manner of speaking.

It might be placebo, in fact it probably is but I felt like I could attack sooner out of aerial Confusion, can anyone confirm that?

 

[Sonicninja115]

Yea, I think mostly we should be labbing U-Air and N-Air. Specially U-Air since it wasn't buffed or nerfed, it was changed and we should treat it as a new move in a manner of speaking.

It might be placebo, in fact it probably is but I felt like I could attack sooner out of aerial Confusion, can anyone confirm that?

What do you think of Uair and Fair as approach options? I am going to lab tipper Uair combos soon.

 

[GanonPawnch]

Yea, I think mostly we should be labbing U-Air and N-Air. Specially U-Air since it wasn't buffed or nerfed, it was changed and we should treat it as a new move in a manner of speaking.

It might be placebo, in fact it probably is but I felt like I could attack sooner out of aerial Confusion, can anyone confirm that?

Could just be that Fair is slightly faster when attacking out of confusion.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Could just be that Fair is slightly faster when attacking out of confusion.

Can you test confusion follow-ups?

 

[Gimj]

I love how right I was about patch notes. I will be labbing as well for however much free time I have.

 

[Chiroz]

Could just be that Fair is slightly faster when attacking out of confusion.

Ah, you're right, it's probably that, hahahaha. I feel silly now.

What do you think of Uair and Fair as approach options? I am going to lab tipper Uair combos soon.

I haven't labbed U-Air at all. I am at work right now, but I'll lab it tonight. It's hard because I am trying to also lab Cloud a bit.

Have to lab both of my fav chars but not enough free time, hahaha.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Ah, you're right, it's probably that, hahahaha. I feel silly now.








I haven't labbed U-Air at all. I am at work right now, but I'll lab it tonight. It's hard because I am trying to also lab Cloud a bit.

Have to lab both of my fav chars but not enough free time, hahaha.

Can confirm that confusion follow-ups unchanged.

I agree!

Tipper Uair combos and links into itself. I got some pretty amazing strings!

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Ok found a super situational combo for dthrow. True combos in training mode tested on falcon.

You gotta land a dash grab so that your opponent is hanging off the stage and dthrow dtilt....

Jab and utilt also combo from this way.

 

[Chiroz]

Ok found a super situational combo for dthrow. True combos in training mode tested on falcon.

You gotta land a dash grab so that your opponent is hanging off the stage and dthrow dtilt....

Daaaaamn, you could probably true combo this into FF N-Air and instakill any char with a bad horizontal recovery.

RIP Cloud.


Edit: does it only work if the opponent is offstage? Or can it be done out of a dash grab on stage?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Daaaaamn, you could probably true combo this into FF N-Air and instakill any char with a bad horizontal recovery.

RIP Cloud.


Edit: does it only work if the opponent is offstage? Or can it be done out of a dash grab on stage?

Only off stage unfortunately I think it has something to do with how grabs interact on the ledge.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Daaaaamn, you could probably true combo this into FF N-Air and instakill any char with a bad horizontal recovery.

RIP Cloud.


Edit: does it only work if the opponent is offstage? Or can it be done out of a dash grab on stage?

30% on Falco. FF Uair- Uair

 

[Y2Kay]

Yo I'll hit the lab this weekend. Dont go discoverin all the new tech w/o me

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Well it looks like at 100 percent this dthrow on the rdge true combos into fair ^_^. We have a situational kill confirm.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Well it looks like at 100 percent this dthrow on the rdge true combos into fair ^_^. We have a situational kill confirm.

Does it work to cover a standard ledge get-up?

Also, Dtilt-Fair-Nair works better now.

Try Dtilt-Fair-Fair-land-Uair x3? Doesn't true completely but is really good!

0% on Falco. FF Uair-Dtilt-Fair-Nair-Dtilt-Follow-up. There are many more, gist is, FF Uair- Dtilt

Edit:Works on Mario! It is a cast combo!

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Does it work to cover a standard ledge get-up?

Also, Dtilt-Fair-Nair works better now.

Try Dtilt-Fair-Fair-land-Uair x3? Doesn't true completely but is really good!

0% on Falco. FF Uair-Dtilt-Fair-Nair-Dtilt-Follow-up. There are many more, gist is, FF Uair- Dtilt

Edit:Works on Mario! It is a cast combo!

Yeah it's kinda generous since Mewtwo slides so far from his dash grab. Also I think you maybe able to go from nair to grab into the ledge shenanigans.

 

[Sonicninja115]

The long combo is not true per se, but it does link. And FF Uair- Dtilt works on Mario, not the whole combo. However, Dtilt-Fair-Nair is working surprisingly well on Mario.

Oh, the Jab-Utilt-Usmash still works and the pseudo infinite still sorta works.

Dair now trues into grab.

 

[Metalex]

I made a Nair KB guide a while ago. Please check it out in the Metagame thread or community guide.
Chiroz . I made the combo thread. And Nair is really good now, while before it was a bit more unreliable for combos.

So, the newest Nair KB thing I found is FF during Nair to make the opponent fall out right above you, allowing easy combos. I also give an explanation of what you described. Check out the threads, I have done a lot of work in the past few months. Metalex, Meleebrawler and I have done a lot of labbing and such.

And I can confirm that Nair to Usmash is not a new thing.


I have Uair info!

Dtilt-Utilt-Uair is still a 20% true combo

FF Uair-Utilt-Uair is still a 25% true combo

FF Uair-Fair trues

FF Uair-Usmash trues at low Percents.

FF Uair-Dair is a reliable mix-up.

FF Uair-Bair is Still a true combo

It is not a true combo, but FF Uair-Fair-Grounded follow-up seems rather safe.

FF Uair-Uair doesn't kill.

Can someone check FF Uair-Nair?

Oh, use the tip of Uair when landing. It is really easy to hit with now and puts you at an advantage against a shielding opponent.

FF Fair-Usmash doesn't combo.

Dair doesn't true into anything more as of yet. Dair-Utilt-Uair might be a kill combo if a platform is used.

There is more, but I don't have a lot of time.

Cool! Was going to post info about Uair myself but most of it was similiar information, i will however add some additional stuff and true combos (Tested on midweight characters only so far):

With Sweetspot Uair:

ff Uair > Nair > Fair / Bair (36% dmg) (Combos at 10 - 40%)
ff Uair > strong Utilt > fj Bair (28% dmg) (Combos at 0 - 20%)
ff Uair > fj / dj Dair (26% dmg) (Combos at 25 - 75%) (Im counting both the spike and non spike hitbox here)
ff Uair > fj / dj Bair (24% dmg) (Combos at 20 - 70%)
ff Uair > footstool > SBC DJC > Shadowball lock > Free move (works at 0 - 30%)

ff Uair > fj Uair = dj Uair > Fair (Everything except the red mark combos and KO's quite easily at mid percents, gotta test it more though)

With Tipper Uair:

ff Uair > fj Fair (22% dmg) (Combos at 0 - 80%) With sweetspot it works up to about 50% and with sourspot up to 70%

Also, because of the reduced landing lag on Dair it now combos fastfalled on grounded opponents:

ff Dair > JC Usmash (30% dmg) (Combos at 25 - 40%)
ff Dair > fj Fair (27% dmg) (Combos at 25 - 55%)
ff Dair > fj Fair > dj Fair (40% dmg) (combos at 25 - 40%)
ff Dair > fj / dj Uair (24% dmg) (combos at 40 - 70%)
ff Dair > Utilt Tipper > fj Uair (27% dmg) (combos at 25 - 45%)

Also it appears ff Fair > sh Dair (28% dmg) true combos at the 20 - 40 percent range so if your close to the ledge that's a good setup for gimps especially against characters with poor recoveries.

 

[Smasher-LTIMT]

Mewtwo Patch 1.1.3 Changes

Saw that there's talk about this in many threads so it might be good to have discussion regarding Mewtwos changes go here.

Confirmed changes:

F-Smash
Hitbox 0 (non-sweetspot) damage 15.0 -> 16.0
Hitbox 0 size 2.0 -> 3.0

Fair
Hits on frame 7 -> 6
Hitbox moved 1 unit forward
Landing lag reduced, from 18 -> 16.

Nair
Landing Lag reduced 16 -> 13

Bair
Hitbox 0 moved to a different bone, position adjusted, size 5.1 -> 5.5
Landing lag reduced, from 21 -> 17.

Uair
Hitbox 1 damage 9.0 -> 10.0
Hitbox 2 damage 7.5 -> 9.0
All hitboxes KBG 100 -> 97
All hitboxes BKB 0 -> 40
Hitbox 0 size 4.7 -> 5.0
Hitbox 1 size 3.9 -> 4.5
Hitbox 2 size 3.1 -> 4.0
Landing lag reduced, from 16 -> 13.

Dair
Hitboxes moved down one unit
Hitbox duration 2 -> 4 frames
Landing lag reduced, from 22 -> 18.

Confusion
Unknown Grab Box parameters increased (Anyone knows the difference?)

D-Throw
Angle 69 -> 74

Dashspeed increased
From 21st to 12th? As a result of this JC Usmash now also slides much further

Shadowball recoil reduced
Seems to send Mewtwo flying less than half the distance he did before

Dashattack
Animation changed

Shadowball
Size increased slightly (?)

Discuss anything surrounding the new changes! i will update OP as needed.

Sweet :D Been waiting for a Mewtwo Buff (kinda hard to use a Character when you're trying not to die at 50% from Roy's F-Smash). I was able to do different things I couldn't do before Update 1.1.3! Thanks for sharing this, bro ^-^

 

[Chiroz]

Well it looks like at 100 percent this dthrow on the rdge true combos into fair ^_^. We have a situational kill confirm.

This is so good, damn. Did you try following up the D-Tilt into Diagonally FF N-Air? How does it look against chars like Doc, Mac, Falcon, etc?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Cool! Was going to post info about Uair myself but most of it was similiar information, i will however add some additional stuff and true combos (Tested on midweight characters only so far):

With Sweetspot Uair:

ff Uair > Nair > Fair / Bair (36% dmg) (Combos at 10 - 40%)
ff Uair > strong Utilt > fj Bair (28% dmg) (Combos at 0 - 20%)
ff Uair > fj / dj Dair (26% dmg) (Combos at 25 - 75%) (Im counting both the spike and non spike hitbox here)
ff Uair > fj / dj Bair (24% dmg) (Combos at 20 - 70%)

With Tipper Uair:

ff Uair > fj Fair (22% dmg) (Combos at 0 - 80%) With sweetspot it works up to about 50% and with sourspot up to 70%

Also, because of the reduced landing lag on Dair it now combos fastfalled on grounded opponents:

ff Dair > fj Fair (27% dmg) (Combos at 25 - 55%)
ff Dair > fj Fair > dj Fair (40% dmg) (combos at 25 - 40%)

(Adding more in a few minutes...)

Couldn't mewtwo do all of this stuff before the patch?

 

[Sonicninja115]

Fair trues into Dtilt against Mario at 0% to a higher number, and then Fair or even better, Nair.

It also combos into Utilt and Jab. SUCCESS!

 

[Spatman]

no more aerial momentum shift for Shadow Ball. Why this incredible nerf?
I have no words, really... my favourite Mewtwo's gimmick is gone

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

This is so good, damn. Did you try following up the D-Tilt into Diagonally FF N-Air? How does it look against chars like Doc, Mac, Falcon, etc?

The dtilt that I'm getting is popping them ul and I'm not getting any follow ups. Maybe jab will allow me to do something.

 

[Chiroz]

no more aerial momentum shift for Shadow Ball. Why this incredible nerf?
I have no words, really... my favourite Mewtwo's gimmick is gone

Ummm, has anyone tried following a FC Shadow Ball? Is it possible to break a shield if your opponent shields it? It used to have a ridiculous amount of shield stun but we couldn't take advantage of it because of the push back. Maybe now we can.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Ummm, has anyone tried following a FC Shadow Ball? Is it possible to break a shield if your opponent shields it? It used to have a ridiculous amount of shield stun but we couldn't take advantage of it because of the push back. Maybe now we can.

SB is completely safe on shield from any distance. -3ish right next to the opponent. So possibly. Maybe a free grab?

 

[Metalex]

Couldn't mewtwo do all of this stuff before the patch?

Yeah im slightly of tired of testing Uair at this point... have labbed very many hours and posted in the Mewtwo combo thread before the patch, but now because of the new knockback we have lost many combos so im trying out which of the old combos works, which does not and the percentage ranges where it works which is very different from Before. Some new combos are probably possible with the new upair though.

The grounded Dair combos did however not work Before the patch so they are new!

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

So a bit more practice and I am able to follow up the dtilt with utilt or fair. Which gives us a 4 hit combo fair does 26 damage all together.

As for the gimping aspect you can just nar instantly and it creates a weird mix up. I think if they were to air dodge it'd be the worst option. So you have some options if you wver get a grab in the corner and it's a potential kill. It start working at 40 percent and I've gotten jab dtilt utilt to true combo. Fair true combos at 100 % I'm not sure how DI effects this set up.

 

[Chiroz]

SB is completely safe on shield from any distance. -3ish right next to the opponent. So possibly. Maybe a free grab?

Well I meant like before if you did an aerial FC SB to say, someone standing on a platform, the shield damage coupled with the shield stun was so huge that landing an F-Air would break his shield (there was a video of this). The problem is the pushback was just too huge to make this an actual thing.

I am wondering if the reduced push back might allow us to FCSB into DJ F-Air to break shields realiably since FCSB has such big shield stun.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Well I meant like before if you did an aerial FC SB to say, someone standing on a platform, the shield damage coupled with the shield stun was so huge that landing an F-Air would break his shield (there was a video of this). The problem is the pushback was just too huge to make this an actual thing.

I am wondering if the reduced push back might allow us to FCSB into DJ F-Air to break shields realiably since FCSB has such big shield stun.

At the very least it should be safe. SB-DJ Fair shouldn't be punishable.

 

[pikazz]

oh I love this update! mewtwo got alot of good stuff but I just love his speed and killpower of UAir <3

also, this is proberly a placebo effect but I have a feeling that his airspeed is also faster (max speed, not air acceleration or air shift), due how easy to get a 3 true hit combo with FAirs

 

[Metalex]

oh I love this update! mewtwo got alot of good stuff but I just love his speed and killpower of UAir <3

also, this is proberly a placebo effect but I have a feeling that his airspeed is also faster (max speed, not air acceleration or air shift), due how easy to get a 3 true hit combo with FAirs

I have also had a feeling that is the case but im not sure, the reason we can get a 3 hit combo easier might just be cause Fairs startup was reduced slightly but then again 1 frame shouldn't matter so much

 

[pikazz]

if its not his air max speed, its propery his "faster run and dash", due that momentum do carry over into the air when used right if I recall right

 

[420quickscoper]

Some are saying Mewtwo got a weight change

F* that. If he can get a speed change, we can continue ask for the weight change he deserves. He just needs his melee weight back at least. They need to fix his grab and teleport sding too.

Oh, yes, it's a great idea to keep on asking for weight buffs! It's a better idea to wait for buffs that he "deserves" than to work on his metagame!

I hate to say it, but I really despise your negative mindset.

 

[Sonicninja115]

if its not his air max speed, its propery his "faster run and dash", due that momentum do carry over into the air when used right if I recall right

Could that tie in to air speed acceleration? I Don't know if it would increase airspeed, but he should get increased acceleration.

 

[pikazz]

this update is what Mewtwo really needed <3 now he is truely a glass cannon! have many times "used FAir combos" into the deathbound with ease <3

a DTilt at the ledge at 10-30% can easy make 3 FAirs

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Well it took longer than any of the other "bad" characters, but Mewtwo finally got the update he deserves. Looking at the kind of changes he got, this pretty much confirms that there is no way in hell that Mewtwo will ever get a weight buff. So it's time for everyone that is still yelling for a weight change to kiss their fantasies goodbye, once and for all. There is also no way that they will add in a hitbox to the charging animation for shadow ball. There aren't adding in a completely new hitbox. Deal with it.

I'm not gonna claim anything about how these changes will affect Mewtwo's combo game or defensive game, because it'll take time and a lot of experimenting to find out how drastic the changes were. I'll let you guys do that. All I can tell is that down throw still sucks, but I like the reduced landing lag on aerials and increased speed.

All the whining I did this year paid off, so I'm satisfied. This was the kind of patch I was hoping for.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I have also had a feeling that is the case but im not sure, the reason we can get a 3 hit combo easier might just be cause Fairs startup was reduced slightly but then again 1 frame shouldn't matter so much

1 frame makes a bid difference. Since the move combos instead of let's say having a 3 frame gap you get an extra frame. It's pretty huge imo.

 

[Sonicninja115]

There is the possibility that Uair on an aerials opponent leads into new combos. I will look into it.