Q&A Meta Knight: Questions & Answers Thread (Don't make or reply to new threads just asking questions)

[Bonk!]

Down throw is a tool that I believe should really only be used to get reliable follow ups like Up-smash and Shuttle Loop. Going for things like B-air locks off of Down throw just seems very unreliable in tournament play, even more than footstool combos.

If you wanna go for B-air locks just do it off of Dash attack > full hop U-air. It's always guaranteed and very difficult to DI against Dash attack.

 

[Amadeus9]

The tech has situational use but if your opponent knows about it, it will never be worth it. Can usually be escaped just by doing jump > airdodge. Some fighters get boned by dthrow bair more than others, though.

 

[busken]

On a random note, I'm in school right now on smashboards. What a life lol

 

[Mr.Dreamland]

Hello, Im Mr.Dreamland, a main of King Dedede, Kirby, and Meta Knight. I have been in love with the Kirby series ever since I was a kid and have tried my very hardest to translate that love to smash ever since the 64. Ive tried to main all of the Dreamland characters in every game and have tried to learn as much as I can, although I was not able to go to tourneys until Smash 4 arrived. And Im really into how they designed the cast in this game. I have a dream, as we all do, to become the world's best dreamland main. And to be recognized by the top players of the world. All because I love how fun this game truly is. I hope to learn alot from this Meta Knight thread. Thank you for your time and allowing me to be here.

 

[busken]

_________ lol

 

[Zonez]

Hello, Im Mr.Dreamland, a main of King Dedede, Kirby, and Meta Knight. I have been in love with the Kirby series ever since I was a kid and have tried my very hardest to translate that love to smash ever since the 64. Ive tried to main all of the Dreamland characters in every game and have tried to learn as much as I can, although I was not able to go to tourneys until Smash 4 arrived. And Im really into how they designed the cast in this game. I have a dream, as we all do, to become the world's best dreamland main. And to be recognized by the top players of the world. All because I love how fun this game truly is. I hope to learn alot from this Meta Knight thread. Thank you for your time and allowing me to be here.

I don't think this is a question. If you want to post in the questions thread, ask a question like "How do I uair combo?" That's the type of question you ask in the questions thread.

 

[Mr.Dreamland]

I don't think this is a question. If you want to post in the questions thread, ask a question like "How do I uair combo?" That's the type of question you ask in the questions thread.

Im sorry for that, won't waste time like that again. However I do have questions that may double as opinions but I do wonder.
1. Is Dair or Nair better for edge guarding? I know that dair has less lag but nair seems to cover more space
2. Is it possible to jab lock with any of Meta Knight's moves? If so, what?
3. Does side B confirm off of anything notable?
4. Does Meta Knight have an out of shield option?
These are things Im truly trying to figure out but would like an opinion

 

[eclipsis17]

1. Both have their place, Dair sends at a worse angle and doesn't last nearly as long. Nair lasts a lot longer, also the back hit has a larger disjoint. Give Bair a go also.

2. Down Tilt jab locks in the early and mid percents. These are very easy to set up off of falling Bair and sets up nicely for kill combos.

3. I don't believe so.

4. Grab, Nair OoS, Dair OoS and Up B OoS will be your most common offensive options out of shield. Bair is situationally good too.

 

[Ghostbone]

The reason why this doesn't work because RaR b-air doesn't true combo unless you do it immediately, and if you do it immediately you have to buffer the b-air and a buffered b-air will always get 3 hits no matter how quickly you fast fall. You need to RaR jump then wait a split second to b-air jab lock and on characters with quick aerials they can easily escape and on fastfallers if they DI d-throw it will never work.

I mean this isn't true

If they don't DI you technically have time to SHFF bair and only get two hits while still getting the combro from d-throw.
(though of course they'll just DI away)

3. Does side B confirm off of anything notable?

If you know they're going to air-dodge you can use side-b.
Though there aren't really any situations that you couldn't just punish the air-dodge with up-b instead.

 

[busken]

No, you're wrong. It doesn't work they can still air dodge even though that would be stupid just like how they wouldn't di d-throw

 

[Ghostbone]

....Go try it in training mode.

The combo counter is accurate at low %s because hitstun cancelling doesn't come into affect until higher knockbacks.

You only have to wait like 3-4 frames into your SH to be able to FF during your bair and land before the 3rd hitbox comes out.

 

[Ulevo]

You cannot. With proper DI you do not have enough time to position yourself before they can act.

 

[Bonk!]

While it is NOT a true combo at low percents. Most players would not airdodge immediately after Down throw because that would result in landing lag. The biggest factor here is frame data of aerials. Like if you Down throw a Luigi there typical reaction is gonna be N-airing immediately which will beat our B-air. I'm not sure if you can simply jump out of B-air's way, but other than that this "string" is more of a 50-50 than anything.

 

[Amadeus9]

Luigi ' s nair won't beat our bair if you do a simple turnaround instead of a rar... turnaround is faster anyways

 

[Ulevo]

Neither of those options work. Your opponent can aerial, air dodge or jump just by DIing away, and there is no point where there would be a DI mixup becauae they should never be DIing towards Meta Knight. Even if you hit them, which you should not be able to, they can tech or tech bounce an aerial. Your opponent could even autocancel an aerial during the early frames and buffer a shield.

 

[Amadeus9]

Do you not understand the concept of a "mix-up"

 

[Ulevo]

Do you not understand the concept of a "mix-up"

Yes I do. I take it you do not understand this mix up is not very effective.

 

[Amadeus9]

#notveryeffective

 

[Ulevo]

#notveryeffective

What is your point? You believe that because a G&W made multiple mistakes in a split second decision that this makes you correct?

 

[busken]

D-throw rar b-air jab lock doesn't work for the reason ulevo listed above. Its not viable unless you are playing a scarecrow and every character can escape. However, d-throw rar autocanceled b-air does work and will always hit regardless of their DI. But i wouldnt combo with b-air as i like keeping it fresh for ledge trumps and edgeguards. One viable mix-up is dash attack FH u-air back air if they are behind you but again they can tech it. Ultimately, i would rarely combo with b-air unless i know my opponent like never techs. Plus it for doesnt even do the most dmg at low percent from d-throw

 

[Amadeus9]

Y'all are talking out your ass. You lose absolutely nothing for attempting it, and you potentially gain a stock advantage if it works. Obviously you wouldn't do it all the time, but if your opponent expects an up smash and you do this, then what the hell, hey, you're up a stock.

 

[Ulevo]

The only benefit Meta Knight had for doing that in that specific instance is the G&W could not dodge the incoming dash attack, which led to the kill. Ironically its signicantly worse then just down throw to up smash, which would have put him in the same kill range. He would have had no chance to DI the follow up, or react out of it, and no chance to DI the dash attack, which he also decided to not do. It would have meant Meta Knight would have had to fish for a dash attack, but this is hardly a disadvantage given that none of that should have worked.

Again, there is no circumstance or reason as to why G&W should have DI's in or not DI'd at all. All doing so does is increase Meta Knight'a follow up options. He clearly flubbed or is not familiar with the match up.

 

[Amadeus9]

I don't understand how you think having your opponent in a jab lock at the right percentage for a combo is the same thing as just having the right percentage. Jab lock = guaranteed followup. Guaranteed followup = stock.

 

[warionumbah2]

but again they can tech it.

The window where you can tech FF Bair(1st and 2nd hit not the ****ty 3rd hit) is small tho.

 

[Ulevo]

I don't understand how you think having your opponent in a jab lock at the right percentage for a combo is the same thing as just having the right percentage. Jab lock = guaranteed followup. Guaranteed followup = stock.

It is not. But if you cannot viably land your opponent, who knows how to DI your set ups, into the jab lock, pondering that question suddenly becomes irrelevant.

 

[Mettie7]

Ulevo If you lose nothing for at least attempting it, what harm have you done to yourself? None. If anything you get some percent which is better than no percent.

 

[Bonk!]

Nobodys perfect????????Also???????

 

[Amadeus9]

Nobodys perfect????????Also???????

Ulevo just can't comprehend he's the only perfect smash 4 player

 

[Zonez]

Is this the Q&A thread?

 

[Furret24]

Is this the Q&A thread?

Yes.

 

[Bonk!]

No this is Patrick.

 

[Ulevo]

Ulevo If you lose nothing for at least attempting it, what harm have you done to yourself? None. If anything you get some percent which is better than no percent.

No. What you lose has to do with opportunity cost.

In that same situation, against a player who knows how to DI in this match up, that jab lock will not happen. By going for the back air, you will net 7% and your opponent gets out for free. Meanwhile if you down throw to up smash, he cannot DI or get out, you gain positional advantage, and it is much harder for him to DI the impending dash attack that will start the death combo. Even if you landed the back air, your opponent just needs to hold away and it will mess up the dash attack 1 start to the combo. You could use dash attack 3 or up tilt 2, but those also have different % ranges because of height and angle variances.

Like, this is very simple. 1: It does not combo. 2: If they DI away and jump it fails. 3: If they DI away and air dodge it fails. 4: If they DI away and aerial it will likely trade or fail. 5: If they tech, it fails. 6: If they mash A, they will tech bounc an aerial, you take damage, and it fails. 7: If you land the back air and jab lock them, if they DI your follow up and you use the incorrect one, it fails.

Good mix ups entail 50/50's. If Sheik down throws you, you are either taking damage and potentially dying for choosing option A, or dying for choosing option B. At no point should this be working against competent players who have Meta Knight experience.

 

[Bonk!]

competent players who have Meta Knight experience.

Good one.

 

[Ulevo]

Good one.

You think it is that farfetched? Players I regularly practice against know how to get out of these follow ups. Over time this character is only going to get more popular and refined, and players are going to have to adapt to him in tournaments. This stuff will not work at that point.

 

[Amadeus9]

You sound like a non mk main rn. "All you have to do is di and it dunt work lol meta knight is suck"

Also you don't know what the **** you are talking about with regard to whether or not you bounce in a tech situation. Mashing A doesn't get you out. I don't know where you got that idea. If you bounce (which has to do with how close you are to the ground when hit... if you time it right it will never happen) then you're out anyways. It has nothing to do with the comboed player's inputs.

 

[Ulevo]

I have explained all I need to as to why this is not something you should viably rely on. If you want to continue to rely on it then by all means do so.

 

[Amadeus9]

Holy **** you really are something rofl

 

[Ulevo]

Also you don't know what the **** you are talking about with regard to whether or not you bounce in a tech situation. Mashing A doesn't get you out. I don't know where you got that idea. If you bounce (which has to do with how close you are to the ground when hit... if you time it right it will never happen) then you're out anyways. It has nothing to do with the comboed player's inputs.

Also.

 

[Amadeus9]

That only works on attacks that bounce you so hard you go airborne... which only happens with bair if you bair them too close to the ground. Tumble falls don't bounce you they only knock you down. If you understand this, pondering bounce techs is irrelevant.

 

[Ghostbone]

Lmao wtf is going on.

Players will try DIing in d-throw every once in a while, if they DI in and you go for dash > up-smash, some characters fall out or don't get hit or whatever.
If they're consistently DIing away and you get dash attack followups > nair/nado/whatever from d-throw then they'll probably try DIing in.
This is a legitimate mix-up option for those situations.

People don't DI perfectly every time lmao, and if you're consistently mixing up your followups, they won't know where they're supposed to DI. (it might surprise you Ulevo, but players of other characters don't spend their days on the MK boards learning exactly which angle to DI d-throw at which %s to avoid the worst followups)
Knowing how you can punish specific options from your opponent (DI, air-dodge, jump) is very useful even if that scenario doesn't come up often, the threat is important to have. If you don't learn d-throw > bair lock (WHICH TRUE COMBOS IF THEY DON'T DI AWAY) then you're just limiting your own options.

But to prove my point, i'll just wait until Abadango or Leo pull it off in a top level game.