Q&A Meta Knight: Questions & Answers Thread (Don't make or reply to new threads just asking questions)

[LostinpinK]

I used (and broke) C sticks when I mained Kirby in brawl to space the Bair perfectly. But this game is different : if your Cstick is on smash attacks, using it will block your analog stick. So you can't really space aerials that well with it. A solution is to tap it very quickly, another is to set it to attacks.
Back to topic, should we use it with MK? I'd say no, because Fair / Bair are not really approach options and don't need perfect spacing. Dair can be spaced with tiliting the analog stick down left / down right, same for Uair. Some people need it for RAR Bair though.

TL, DR: No, just use A and flick the analog stick quickly.

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

I have a question in what determines Up-Bs kill %, Is it just based on how heavy the character is? (assuming that Up-b is fresh)

 

[Urameshi_]

does anyone know where i can find the sets between zero and unknown? i've heard it mentioned a lot but can't really find it :l

 

[AyeYoDeji]

Dthrow into shuttle loop is more or less a safebet at almost any %.

However, I have been noticing some players have been able to DI out of the range quite early. I assume this is character related. Does anyone have any idea which characters this is restricted to?

at highish percents if they di away you will not be able to connect shuttle loop.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Yo is there some sort of trick to keeping your Tornado in place while mashing B? I ask because I'll often times try to Nado on someone's shield for shield pressure only to end up lifting up just out of range.

Also after the patch, I seem to see way more 23% Nados now. Is anyone else experiencing this?

 

[Ulevo]

Yo is there some sort of trick to keeping your Tornado in place while mashing B? I ask because I'll often times try to Nado on someone's shield for shield pressure only to end up lifting up just out of range.

Also after the patch, I seem to see way more 23% Nados now. Is anyone else experiencing this?

It's just a timing thing.

 

[Zorai]

Question: what are MK's best customs? I heard he has a side b and down b that can break shields. Which ones are those?

 

[FlamingForce]

The aptly named "Shieldbreaker drill" and "Shield piercer" lol.

 

[Tewks]

Question: what are MK's best customs? I heard he has a side b and down b that can break shields. Which ones are those?

Meta Knight's customs are... interesting to say the least. His default Up B and Neutral B are definitely the best options, while the other specials are debatable. I personally think the shield breaker drill rush (side special 3) is the best option for his side b, since it's a great punishing tool for someone who shields a lot. For down b, I'd say his default cape and the stealth one (down special 3) are his best, since they are a good mixup and punish tool.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

High Speed Drill is your best alternative to Drill Rush. Shield Breaker Drill is lackluster against anyone decent.

Default Cape is still his best cape. The other ones aren't totally useless but I don't find them to be that great. Dimensional Cape as a whole is just a very limited/situational move.

 

[Zorai]

High Speed Drill is your best alternative to Drill Rush. Shield Breaker Drill is lackluster against anyone decent.

Default Cape is still his best cape. The other ones aren't totally useless but I don't find them to be that great. Dimensional Cape as a whole is just a very limited/situational move.

Well wouldn't shield breaker drill give him an unblockable as well as a pretty decent landing option and approach? Especially since most people will probably just try to just shield it, especially shield breaker cape. Also metaknight is terrible against being above someone who is shielding so yeah. And of course we all know he has no solid approach options.

Default cape is a great move because the attack reaches deceptively far. Autocancelled cape is actually pretty decent mobility and great for mindgames, mixups, and possibly landing.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I agree that as a mobility option, default Cape is quite good. As an ATTACK though, the applications are limited.

 

[Zorai]

It's basically his version of a counter really. Except it's obviously used differently.

But yeah I'll definitely be playing more with his shieldbreaker customs.

 

[FlamingForce]

I tested shieldbreaker drill on a CPU once but was entirely unimpressed.

 

[Tewks]

Well wouldn't shield breaker drill give him an unblockable as well as a pretty decent landing option and approach? Especially since most people will probably just try to just shield it, especially shield breaker cape. Also metaknight is terrible against being above someone who is shielding so yeah. And of course we all know he has no solid approach options.

Default cape is a great move because the attack reaches deceptively far. Autocancelled cape is actually pretty decent mobility and great for mindgames, mixups, and possibly landing.

While I do think shield breaker drill is a good option, it is pretty slow and has little to no uses besides breaking shields. I don't use the drill often to begin with, but I do think with testing some good applications for the shield breaker customs will unfold.

 

[Zorai]

I mean it might even be a good landing trap since they can't shield it.

 

[WakerofWinds]

Hey all! Does anyone have any experience transitioning from Brawl MK to Smash 3DS/Wii U MK that can give some tips on how they made the transition or how long it took them? I'm looking to actually pick a character, and while I like MK as a character,it didn't feel "right" the first couple of times I played his newest iteration.

 

[Ulevo]

Hey all! Does anyone have any experience transitioning from Brawl MK to Smash 3DS/Wii U MK that can give some tips on how they made the transition or how long it took them? I'm looking to actually pick a character, and while I like MK as a character,it didn't feel "right" the first couple of times I played his newest iteration.

Watch the way M2K played Meta Knight in Brawl, as well as Ito and Katakiri in Smash Wii U in the video section. Once you can emulate that style, branch off from there and start learning combos.

 

[WakerofWinds]

Watch the way M2K played Meta Knight in Brawl, as well as Ito and Katakiri in Smash Wii U in the video section. Once you can emulate that style, branch off from there and start learning combos.

I'm confused as to how watching M2K play Brawl will aid with transitioning away from Brawl MK. Could you elaborate on what I should be looking for in those videos?

 

[Ulevo]

I'm confused as to how watching M2K play Brawl will aid with transitioning away from Brawl MK. Could you elaborate on what I should be looking for in those videos?

Look at the way M2K conducts himself in neutral, how he spaces, and how he looks for opportunities or openings in his opponents spacing or gameplay. Not all of it is entirely translatable, but a large portion of it is.

 

[WakerofWinds]

Look at the way M2K conducts himself in neutral, how he spaces, and how he looks for opportunities or openings in his opponents spacing or gameplay. Not all of it is entirely translatable, but a large portion of it is.

I don't find playing MK difficult in that way; I've found the transition difficult. It could just be getting used to the engine and animations, though. I'll watch the Ito and Katakiri videos. Thank you.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Is Dash Grab F-Throw to Up B an unreliable kill combo (as in easy to DI) at higher percents? Rarely see people using it in high level play.

 

[ItoI6]

it is unreliable but its so fast that its hard to react to. you have to be sliding forward from a dash grab for it to work as well

 

[Ulevo]

it is unreliable but its so fast that its hard to react to. you have to be sliding forward from a dash grab for it to work as well

Basically this. I find that if down throw to Shuttle Loop isn't working, forward throw will. DI influences it very heavily, but again it is very hard to DI depending on when it is used.

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

What would you say Meta Knight's bad match ups are, and what character(s) would you pick up to cover those bad match ups?

 

[ItoI6]

i dont believe in secondaries, your best character is probably better than your second best at any given matchup. that said you could try diddy or sheik if you wanna cover zss, falcon and sonic, both of them do well against all of the above

 

[W.A.C.]

Question: what are MK's best customs? I heard he has a side b and down b that can break shields. Which ones are those?

Don't use Shield Breaker Drill. Any opponent who realizes you can just roll out of the drill can punish Meta Knight pretty hard. High Speed Drill isn't bad, but it's a very limiting move that's super easy to suicide with and getting a bad read has a lack of good options. Sometimes if I get a bad read with the standard drill, I just drill downwards so I can bounce away from the situation. Not ideal, but much better than getting punished horribly for it. His down special customs suck, but at least one of his down specials gives him more vertical distance and can be safer to land with at times. Overall, I would recommend only bothering with high speed drill if you want to use any of his customs. I hate that custom, but it's his only custom move that isn't bad.

 

[420quickscoper]

So, how do you exactly edge guard with meta knight? I've heard he's got great abilities with that sort of thing. If someone could answer the following questions, that'd be great:

-What should I use to get people offstage?
-What percent should I start edge guarding?
-What moves are important in his edge guarding?
-Can I kill them offstage? If so, is there an easy way?
-What if they get back on the stage? What should I do?

 

[Ulevo]

So, how do you exactly edge guard with meta knight? I've heard he's got great abilities with that sort of thing. If someone could answer the following questions, that'd be great:

-What should I use to get people offstage?
-What percent should I start edge guarding?
-What moves are important in his edge guarding?
-Can I kill them offstage? If so, is there an easy way?
-What if they get back on the stage? What should I do?

1) Back throw, forward smash, down smash, back air, and LCG are typically how you get people off stage.
2) Any % is fine to edge guard with Meta Knight. However, Meta Knight has the benefit of being able to kill most characters off the top while also having good edge guard tools. This means you do not have to specifically aim to edge guard players, and can simply adapt accordingly.
3) Spaced dash grab in to LCG against certain characters; reverse neutral air, down air, and back air off stage; down tilt, forward smash, down smash, Mach Tornado, Dimensional Cape when the opponent is hanging on the ledge.
4) LCG is easy against certain characters. Outside of this, reverse neutral air, down air, and back air are you best options. Reverse neutral air can actually wall of pain certain characters in to the blast zone. Back air is more of a kill secure at higher %. This question is highly character dependent.
5) A lot of times it does not matter so much if you cannot secure a kill if it means you can secure free damage. If letting them back on stage means you can get a grab to a back throw off stage for another edge guard scenario, this is advantageous to you even if it does not result in a kill because it is usually risk free to you and allows you to catch up or extend the lead you already have.

 

[Jeronado]

Is there anything that sets up for Up air chains besides Dash Attack?

 

[LostinpinK]

i dont believe in secondaries, your best character is probably better than your second best at any given matchup. that said you could try diddy or sheik if you wanna cover zss, falcon and sonic, both of them do well against all of the above

Sooooooo you're going MK only from now on? :D

Is there anything that sets up for Up air chains besides Dash Attack?

Down throw can lead into a uair too, make sure to go check the grab 2.0 thread.
But thanks to MK's mobility, you can punish airdodges to start an uair chain.

 

[Pazx]

@ Ulevo what does LCG stand for

 

[CatcherAndTheRai]

@ Pazx It stands for Ledge Canceled Grab. When you dash grab an opponent near the ledge and slide off the stage/ledge with them. It sets up footstool possibilities and such.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

I play Kirby but need help on the Metaknight matchup. I played a Metaknight in tournament the other day and realized I had no clue how to approach/handle the matchup. As Metaknight mains what're your suggestions on the matchup against meta knights who know what they're doing?

 

[Ulevo]

I play Kirby but need help on the Metaknight matchup. I played a Metaknight in tournament the other day and realized I had no clue how to approach/handle the matchup. As Metaknight mains what're your suggestions on the matchup against meta knights who know what they're doing?

I'll be honest, I've never played a competent Kirby before. I hardly ever see anyone play him. My gut feeling tells me that Meta Knight slaughters him, but I am not at liberty to say. What does the Kirby boards say.

@ ItoI6 @Katakiri @ Fye @ ZTD | TECHnology @ warionumbah2

 

[KingDaiGurren]

9

I'll be honest, I've never played a competent Kirby before. I hardly ever see anyone play him. My gut feeling tells me that Meta Knight slaughters him, but I am not at liberty to say. What does the Kirby boards say.

@ ItoI6 @Katakiri @ Fye @ ZTD | TECHnology @ warionumbah2

Most are saying its pretty even but weighs heavily on who is the agressor. Neither has an edge in terms of using their multi jumps but both are susceptible to each other off stage. It really depends on who has the upper hand in the match and apparently can go either way

 

[Fye]

The only Kirby I play is my little bro (but he's not that good, so correct me on anything wrong). From what I've played, it seems Kirby barely out-spaces MK. He needs to be super on point to keep MK out. Once MK's in, there' s little Kirby can do. It's also kind of hard for Kirby to land because his only move to get back is down air, and MK's up tilt (and maybe Shuttle Loop?) beats it. He also has a lot of safe things against Kirby because of how slow Kirby is comparatively. I don't think the matchup's even at all, but it's not completely lopsided. Your main goal should always be to keep him out, and don't throw out anything punishable.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'll be honest, I've never played a competent Kirby before. I hardly ever see anyone play him. My gut feeling tells me that Meta Knight slaughters him, but I am not at liberty to say. What does the Kirby boards say.

@ ItoI6 @Katakiri @ Fye @ ZTD | TECHnology @ warionumbah2

We win this MU, it's just not as free as many would believe.

The neutral is annoying because Kirby does outrange us and has slightly better tools for walling us out. His Smashes come out reasonably fast and have surprisingly potent reach for a character of his frame.If you aren't keen on powershielding you have to be patient then. As @ Fye stated, once we actually do get in, Kirby has little answers. His close range game is pretty mediocre and his ground speed is lacking, giving us a bit of an edge there.

The thing that really tips the MU in our favor for me is the punish game. Kirby has strings and reliable Smashes that you need to look out for. But our strings are devastating on Kirby. Although Shuttle Loop out of shield is really strong in this MU, I woudl rather try to keep it fresh around 80-90 + because our combos into Shuttle Loop will kill him around that percent. I also find it very easy to chain Up Airs on him at lower percents due to his floatyness .It's not very difficult to rack damage on him and Tornado punishes on lightweight characters are really brutal.

Off stage game is pretty even. It's really hard for both characters to actually force the other in a truly bad situation when both of them have a bunch of jumps. Our recovery is better but it's not really a big advantage here. It just means we get more room to mess up.

However, I also feel like we have an easier time landing. Our Dair is more reliable for deterring approaches and our Dimensional Cape gives us a more reliable way of mixing up our landings since Kirby's mobility is lacking. While Kirby has Stone, it's a huge commitment and extremely punishable when not used correctly.

If I had to toss a ratio on it, I'd say 60:40 our favor. Kirby wants to do a lot of the same things we do, but just not as well. But he's not totally free. Kirby punishes hard if you're careless and walls out pretty well. Not letting Kirby have Tornado should also be a priority but Metaknight punishes Mach Tornado quite well. But due to the fact that its a massively damaging punish, you'll want to be sure to just avoid that scenario anyway. But even so, our punish game is superior and we have more advantageous states outside of neutral (which is pretty lackluster for both sides anyway). I typically, camp this one out pretty hard and mix in spacing tools. F-Tilt is pretty useful in this MU. Once we've established a strong lead and have to make Kirby approach, this MU gets kind of rough for him. The whole MU is really awkward and boring though. It's just a bunch of baiting.

 

[warionumbah2]

If they think its even more time the MK is getting impatient due to how dead the MU is, Kirby will always have to work harder than us since our mid range/ground game is better by a large margin.

The differences between our edgeguarding capabilities is significant, ledge trumping into bair sounds like a good option to catch MK off guard but other than that you won't be touching us off stage while we have disjoints in our aerials and better aerial mobility.

If you recover from the air MK will punish your landings back to back, Kirby's throws deal more damage but MK gets much more out of it. Compared to Kirby's 10% throws MK can get +20% on average.

Stone = Free shuttle loop. MK can prevent Kirby from touching the ground, Utilt obliterates all his aerials.

Edit: Real talk who plays customs with MK? Katakiri does and that's it, MKs custom meta came to a complete stop tbh. While Kirby mains focus more on customs since he doesn't get bopped that hard in customs. I never played this in customs tho.

 

[W.A.C.]

In the vanilla matchup, yeah, 60:40 sounds about right. But what about custom moves Kirby? Some of his customs are great alternatives to his standard moveset.