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Plunder

Smash Ace
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862
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If you don't believe me, look it up.
I don't, but I've studied game development and have coded outside of classes a LOT. I've continued coding outside of classes and a lot of the stuff I've learned was actually done independently. We never delved into the uses of enums, we never looked into creating game menus that responded to controller input, we were never taught how to make the game fullscreen, change volume, or any basic settings that any game would have, we never looked into searching algorithms, and dozens of other things. The class I took was bare-bones to get me to the basics, and then we were encouraged to go as far as we wanted from there. That led to some people with games where you mash a button to win, or some people with decently complex games for a one-man operation. I know what the industry is like (I've talked extensively about the industry with the dad of one of my best friends, who has made multiple games over the past 30 years and used to be the CTO at a gaming company), and while I still need work experience, my dad has taught me how to code well and how to properly comment.


I actually try to find non-wiki sources first, but you are dodging around my answer to your situation. Even if I don't disagree with the definition of glitch, wobbling is still an exploit (not necessarily a glitch). Stunlock is common in a lot of games; if you need proof, look up WOW Stunlock or Stunlock speedrun and you'll come up with plenty of instances. It's not a fault in the game's code as it's executing as expected, it's a fault in the design.

---

Your last post seemed less like a rebuttal to wobbling and more trying to personally insult my skills as a coder, while never seeing any of my code or knowing my skill level.
Nah sorry but I think you need to look it up, it is a language, it's in the acronym and the entire meaning. That point is a great example of you being a hypocrite about what you just said at the end there. It had nothing to do with anything on topic, it was a very poorly thought out attempt to discredit me based on nothing....which you are wrong about anyways, again. Same thing happened over in the Official FAQ thread when you responded to a question I was asking. Should have just let someone else answer it instead of interjecting quickly with an answer that was not accurate at all.

This has gone away from the topic, way too far at this point (sparked mostly by you tying to re-define what a glitch is and argue the point). So I agree it should end.

If you want you can have the last word. I wish you luck in your studies and any internships or full employment thereafter. I can give you a bit of advice though - Acting like a "know-it-all" in the work place especially with those that have more experience and knowledge to offer will not get you far. In fact It's really dangerous and counter-productive to not admit that something is beyond your knowledge or skills, or deny help from those that fill in those gaps. I remember all the way back to college working on senior projects with people like that, it's the worst.
 

Dolla Pills

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
894
Location
Connecticut
I thought the glitch part was where the cat guy makes a bunch of blue hexagons come out real fast and it goes *blip blip blip blip blip*
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Nah sorry but I think you need to look it up, it is a language, it's in the acronym and the entire meaning. That point is a great example of you being a hypocrite about what you just said at the end there. It had nothing to do with anything on topic, it was a very poorly thought out attempt to discredit me based on nothing....which you are wrong about anyways, again. Same thing happened over in the Official FAQ thread when you responded to a question I was asking. Should have just let someone else answer it instead of interjecting quickly with an answer that was not accurate at all.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/145176/is-html-considered-a-programming-language
http://infospace.ischool.syr.edu/2012/04/05/why-html-is-not-a-programming-language/
http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2013/12/15/why-is-html-not-a-programming-language/

Just the first few results on a quick google search. I wasn't trying to discredit you in either thread (I apologized in an edit on this thread before your next post and liked the correction by #SplitsOnTrees as I assumed that they wouldn't make a character state for auto-cancelling as I thought it just went back to the normal landing animation and learned something).

This has gone away from the topic, way too far at this point (sparked mostly by you tying to re-define what a glitch is and argue the point). So I agree it should end.
I'm not trying to redefine a glitch (I was only using that as a reason not to use Wikipedia), I'm comparing a glitch and an exploit (two different things).

If you want you can have the last word. I wish you luck in your studies and any internships or full employment thereafter. I can give you a bit of advice though - Acting like a "know-it-all" in the work place especially with those that have more experience and knowledge to offer will not get you far. In fact It's really dangerous and counter-productive to not admit that something is beyond your knowledge or skills, or deny help from those that fill in those gaps. I remember all the way back to college working on senior projects with people like that, it's the worst.
I apologize if I came across like that, but if I don't know something, I usually just look it up. I failed to do that with the FAQ forum and am sorry for misinformation, but I'd never felt it before and figured that I woulda noticed it after 2 or 3-ish years of competitive play. I still think I'm right about the wobbling thing and know I'm right about HTML, but hey, maybe I'll look back at this thread in 5 years and be like "who the heck does this Spak guy think he is?" I'l just live and learn as I become more proficient in programming.

Aaanyways, back to Melee. How's Pikachu going?
 
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Plunder

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Messages
862
Location
Port Royal
NNID
1337-7734-8008
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/145176/is-html-considered-a-programming-language
http://infospace.ischool.syr.edu/2012/04/05/why-html-is-not-a-programming-language/
http://inventwithpython.com/blog/2013/12/15/why-is-html-not-a-programming-language/

Just the first few results on a quick google search. I wasn't trying to discredit you in either thread (I apologized in an edit on this thread before your next post and liked the correction by #SplitsOnTrees as I assumed that they wouldn't make a character state for auto-cancelling as I thought it just went back to the normal landing animation and learned something).


I'm not trying to redefine a glitch (I was only using that as a reason not to use Wikipedia), I'm comparing a glitch and an exploit (two different things).


I apologize if I came across like that, but if I don't know something, I usually just look it up. I failed to do that with the FAQ forum and am sorry for misinformation, but I'd never felt it before and figured that I woulda noticed it after 2 or 3-ish years of competitive play. I still think I'm right about the wobbling thing and know I'm right about HTML, but hey, maybe I'll look back at this thread in 5 years and be like "who the heck does this Spak guy think he is?" I'l just live and learn as I become more proficient in programming.

Aaanyways, back to Melee. How's Pikachu going?
Pikachu is going really well, almost too well because no one knows the MU and there are no other Pikachus. And compared to my previous main of GnW....well I think we all know the tremendous gap there.

Man I keep getting drawn in...

Spak...Jesus H.... you aren't right about HTML. It literally is a language. It's not by definition a programming language but ANYONE WHO CODES HTML KNOWS THIS AND I NEVER SAID IT WAS. it does requires coding, debugging and integration with many programming languages....You seem to really want to die on this hill with the point that it's not "a language" (which I'm guessing you keep meaning PROGRAMMING language), I never said it was by definition a programming language, so are you arguing with yourself? It makes no sense. Again the L literally stands for language.


And let's say we we're able to be a fly on the wall at the programming, assets, graphics, and QA meetting right after they discovered the Freeze Glitch and Wobbling glitch.

They would bring it up and it would be all categorized under "Bugs/Glitches to be fixed" part of the briefing/meeting or PP presentation. It would be brought up like this "It appears that there are two glitches concerning the ICs that were caught in play testing. You can grab and freeze a player indefinitely, and you can also infinitely grab and essentially 0-death any character"
They would ask the leads what they recommend, and then the proper tasks would be divided among the programmers and asset teams to work together to find the source of the problem and fix it. On their physical docs and email conversation there will undoubtedly be referrals to both as glitches or bugs and commenting in the code to certain lines, loops, object, or subroutines that could be the source. Design flaw is too broad and internally I can tell you that programmers and other CS skill related workers don't say things like "Oh man we got to fix that design flaw, etc, etc"
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
So, ftilt/dtilt is the glitch, or is pummel stun a glitch? Should breaking out of grabs be made super easy to combat this? Lol. Funny thing is, at low% mashing out virtually always works. And if you're getting grabbed above low%, and you play smash competitively, you should be used to dying.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Pikachu is going really well, almost too well because no one knows the MU and there are no other Pikachus. And compared to my previous main of GnW....well I think we all know the tremendous gap there.
I'm glad to hear you're enjoying Pikachu!

Spak...Jesus H.... you aren't right about HTML. It literally is a language. It's not by definition a programming language but ANYONE WHO CODES HTML KNOWS THIS AND I NEVER SAID IT WAS. it does requires coding, debugging and integration with many programming languages....You seem to really want to die on this hill with the point that it's not "a language" (which I'm guessing you keep meaning PROGRAMMING language), I never said it was by definition a programming language, so are you arguing with yourself? It makes no sense. Again the L literally stands for language.
I thought that if we were talking about programming and languages were brought up, we would be referencing a "programming language". I guess that was my bad.

And let's say we we're able to be a fly on the wall at the programming, assets, graphics, and QA meetting right after they discovered the Freeze Glitch and Wobbling glitch.

They would bring it up and it would be all categorized under "Bugs/Glitches to be fixed" part of the briefing/meeting or PP presentation. It would be brought up like this "It appears that there are two glitches concerning the ICs that were caught in play testing. You can grab and freeze a player indefinitely, and you can also infinitely grab and essentially 0-death any character"
They would ask the leads what they recommend, and then the proper tasks would be divided among the programmers and asset teams to work together to find the source of the problem and fix it. On their physical docs and email conversation there will undoubtedly be referrals to both as glitches or bugs and commenting in the code to certain lines, loops, object, or subroutines that could be the source. Design flaw is too broad and internally I can tell you that programmers and other CS skill related workers don't say things like "Oh man we got to fix that design flaw, etc, etc"
Fair enough and I don't have the industry experience to know how people talk to each-other in the real world, but even if it's quick and easy to call it a glitch while working on it, that doesn't change the fact that it's actually an exploit. Would you call chaingrabbing a glitch, since it's a guaranteed 0-death with Shiek on some characters or Pika's chainthrow on spacies a glitch? It's poor game design (as is wobbling), but I would hardly call it a glitch. I'm not sure if they would take it out if they could and I'm not sure if it was logged during testing and they knew about it, but I do know that they left it in either way and ICs wouldn't be nearly as balanced without wobbling.

Also, quick question: do asset teams and coders work closely in the industry? You made it sound like they work together to solve the problem, while wobbling could be easily solved by having a condition for Nana's AI to be neutral if Popo is grabbing.
 

Plunder

Smash Ace
Joined
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Messages
862
Location
Port Royal
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So, ftilt/dtilt is the glitch, or is pummel stun a glitch? Should breaking out of grabs be made super easy to combat this? Lol. Funny thing is, at low% mashing out virtually always works. And if you're getting grabbed above low%, and you play smash competitively, you should be used to dying.
ACE I'm glad you aren't working on any games.

It's quite simple they didn't account for the fact that there are 2 ICs that can be de-synced. They would need to alter the global coding and rules for grabs concerning ICs and this vulnerability. They could add in a subroutine to check for ICs, if they are desynced, etc and the set a flag for to either not allow both to act, or to allow mashing to release from the grabbed party. Or just simply not allow the spare IC to do anything while a grab is confirmed.

At a lowest level there is always a part of the code (or even between assets) that leads up to a "design flaw" or "oversight". At the lowest levels it is a bug/glitch/exploit/vulnerability that needs to be corrected.

Do you honestly believe it would be left in if discovered? The answer to that pretty much sums up everything about this whole discussion.


I'm glad to hear you're enjoying Pikachu!

I thought that if we were talking about programming and languages were brought up, we would be referencing a "programming language". I guess that was my bad.


Fair enough and I don't have the industry experience to know how people talk to each-other in the real world, but even if it's quick and easy to call it a glitch while working on it, that doesn't change the fact that it's actually an exploit. Would you call chaingrabbing a glitch, since it's a guaranteed 0-death with Shiek on some characters or Pika's chainthrow on spacies a glitch? It's poor game design (as is wobbling), but I would hardly call it a glitch. I'm not sure if they would take it out if they could and I'm not sure if it was logged during testing and they knew about it, but I do know that they left it in either way and ICs wouldn't be nearly as balanced without wobbling.

Also, quick question: do asset teams and coders work closely in the industry? You made it sound like they work together to solve the problem, while wobbling could be easily solved by having a condition for Nana's AI to be neutral if Popo is grabbing.
Yes I would agree with what you are saying about wobbling, it would be easy to fix and would probably only involve the OOP, AI, and game engine teams (probably not the physics engine or any other programming teams). But the Freeze Glitch I was also talking about as well, that might take a bit more collaboration and trial and error (if they wanted to allow the spare IC to do stuff still during a grab confirm). I think there is absolutely no way both of the ICs glitches would be left in, especially considering how Nintendo and HAL run their QA and their past pedigree. < That is my opinion, but I'm like 99.99999% sure about it.

And as for the industry every place is of course different. The best work places are those that have everyone in-house, and don't have much separation between the different fields / specialties. Most don't do it in all house anymore, so you have to out-source CGI, graphics, design, coding (there are so many different sub-types), video, etc. That is a nightmare because so much gets lost in translation, communication is slow, and everyone at different places have different work ethics and approaches. Some places have people that translate problems between fields and specialties, the worst trend nowadays is that most programmers and CS people are used and abused (not hired in house and mostly freelance for projects then are let go). Most of the really successful places I imagine have a lot of crossover, people constantly learning other specialties over time and become experts in many fields as well as being able to understand problems that aren't in their typical skill-set. THese places also want to retain their employees and give them security, that experience and ability to have chemistry with a team for a long time is priceless and efficient.
 
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Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
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Earth
Yes I would agree with what you are saying about wobbling, it would be easy to fix and would probably only involve the OOP, AI, and game engine teams (probably not the physics engine or any other programming teams). But the Freeze Glitch I was also talking about as well, that might take a bit more collaboration and trial and error (if they wanted to allow the spare IC to do stuff still during a grab confirm). I think there is absolutely no way both of the ICs glitches would be left in, especially considering how Nintendo and HAL run their QA and their past pedigree. < That is my opinion, but I'm like 99.99999% sure about it.

And as for the industry every place is of course different. The best work places are those that have everyone in-house, and don't have much separation between the different fields / specialties. Most don't do it in all house anymore, so you have to out-source CGI, graphics, design, coding (there are so many different sub-types), video, etc. That is a nightmare because so much gets lost in translation, communication is slow, and everyone at different places have different work ethics and approaches. Some places have people that translate problems between fields and specialties, the worst trend nowadays is that most programmers and CS people are used and abused (not hired in house and mostly freelance for projects then are let go). Most of the really successful places I imagine have a lot of crossover, people constantly learning other specialties over time and become experts in many fields as well as being able to understand problems that aren't in the typical skill-set. THese places also want to retain their employees and give them security, that experience and ability to have chemistry with a team for a long time is priceless and efficient.
Oh, I completely agree that Freeze Glitch would be taken out in a heartbeat. HAL tried to take out every glitch they could find (the boomerang superjump and shadow glitch come to mind, and stuff like the Black Hole, yo-yo, and Freeze glitch made it through testing). Wobbling might have been left in, though... Depends on who the higher-ups were, what they thought of the technique, and how pressed for time they were to release the game. Also, thanks for the info! The only facility I've had the pleasure of touring is Epic's HQ in the town next to mine (for a C++ summer class) and while they do have numerous offices around the world (3 are localization and licensing copies of Unreal Engine, 2 are dedicated to Unreal Engine development, ChAIR is devoted to game development, and HQ does Unreal Engine and game development), a majority of their projects are in-house. It was also the coolest work environment I've ever seen, but I won't elaborate too much on that. I'm hoping to eventually get an internship there, but it'll be REALLY hard to get a spot. If I work my butt off and learn as much as I can, I might be able to get a spot in a few years. But I won't get a spot by staying up until 1:30 AM on Smashboards, so I'll say good night and be back in the morning.
 

Plunder

Smash Ace
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862
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That wasn't the answer I was expecting, lol. I'm also glad your opinion matters so little. The word glitch just doesn't seem appropriate.
The trolling and 5th grade jokes are getting tired, I just ignore most of them. You're basically just repeating things I've already said at this point, but I guess some people take the "5 year old" approach to the Internet. Probably works on others on here, not me though. So troll away to your hearts content, it's actually kind of entertaining to watch.

Oh, I completely agree that Freeze Glitch would be taken out in a heartbeat. HAL tried to take out every glitch they could find (the boomerang superjump and shadow glitch come to mind, and stuff like the Black Hole, yo-yo, and Freeze glitch made it through testing). Wobbling might have been left in, though... Depends on who the higher-ups were, what they thought of the technique, and how pressed for time they were to release the game. Also, thanks for the info! The only facility I've had the pleasure of touring is Epic's HQ in the town next to mine (for a C++ summer class) and while they do have numerous offices around the world (3 are localization and licensing copies of Unreal Engine, 2 are dedicated to Unreal Engine development, ChAIR is devoted to game development, and HQ does Unreal Engine and game development), a majority of their projects are in-house. It was also the coolest work environment I've ever seen, but I won't elaborate too much on that. I'm hoping to eventually get an internship there, but it'll be REALLY hard to get a spot. If I work my butt off and learn as much as I can, I might be able to get a spot in a few years. But I won't get a spot by staying up until 1:30 AM on Smashboards, so I'll say good night and be back in the morning.
Well what makes me so sure both would be taken out is that they would probably find a singular solution that would be able to eliminate both problems since they are related to grabbing and the spare IC being able to act.

Instead of wasting time trying to keep one problem in and the other taken out, would be more efficient and cost/time effective to squash both.

But really even beyond that at a casual level when the higher ups think about this game, even the possibility of having one grab lead to a kill...that's not something I think they'd want in the game. Far less heinous glitches were taken out, and even a lot that didn't even need to be taken out or fixed (ones that made the game more unbalanced).
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
The trolling and 5th grade jokes are getting tired, I just ignore most of them. You're basically just repeating things I've already said at this point, but I guess some people take the "5 year old" approach to the Internet. Probably works on others on here, not me though. So troll away to your hearts content, it's actually kind of entertaining to watch.
I've always been that 5 year old with 5th grade level jokes bruh, I'm so ahead of my time my parents haven't met yet :denzel:

http://youtu.be/KhsOW-_TwfU

But seriously, I actually help newcomers to melee. I'm the number one contributor to helping aspiring melee Ganon mains in the world. I've written most of the guides for melee Ganon. EVERY TOP GANON takes my advice very seriously without question. You play forum games and argue with people over things that don't matter. And get mad! Lol. You might want to try the age jokes and maturity jokes on someone else.

x|-<
 

Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
Premium
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I failed my Programming and Logics class few semesters ago, wasn't really hard except for the final, which is what killed me. :/

Never doing that **** again.
 

Positive

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Messages
1
Location
London
So today, I went to my second ever melee tournament, Kickstart 5 (UK). I've only been playing melee (and smash bros for that matter) for about 3 months, so when I found out that I had been randomly chose to be in the same pool as Armada and would get an opportunity to play him, you can imagine my excitement/terror. The day comes, I play the pre-tourney friendlies, the usual thing. When the pools start, I play my games, putting off my bout with the god that is Armada for as long as possible, but inevitably it comes to be my turn. We sit down, he asks if I want to just go battlefield (to which I accept), I play my heart out (he's pissing around with a Sheik, not punishing anything and randomly throwing out F-smashes) and even manage to take his first stock(!!!)... before being JV-3'd. I'm pretty pleased however; after all, how many unranked melee players can say they've played a God and taken a stock?! At this point, he thanks me for the game, and unplugs his controller. I call after him making sure he knew this was a tournament set, he tells me that it was, and leaves anyway. I'm confused; what about the rest of our set? I'd seen him playing 2 games with everyone else in the pool, so I was certain he knew the format. Anyway, he didn't return to the setup for the rest of the wave and I recorded the set as 2-0 in his favor. It was only later when I complained to another smasher that I had only got the 1 game with him that they pointed out that leaving a set unfinished and not returning in the pool wave counts as forfeiting and disqualifying yourself from the set. Therefore, on a technicality, I have beaten the best melee player in the world.
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
So today, I went to my second ever melee tournament, Kickstart 5 (UK). I've only been playing melee (and smash bros for that matter) for about 3 months, so when I found out that I had been randomly chose to be in the same pool as Armada and would get an opportunity to play him, you can imagine my excitement/terror. The day comes, I play the pre-tourney friendlies, the usual thing. When the pools start, I play my games, putting off my bout with the god that is Armada for as long as possible, but inevitably it comes to be my turn. We sit down, he asks if I want to just go battlefield (to which I accept), I play my heart out (he's pissing around with a Sheik, not punishing anything and randomly throwing out F-smashes) and even manage to take his first stock(!!!)... before being JV-3'd. I'm pretty pleased however; after all, how many unranked melee players can say they've played a God and taken a stock?! At this point, he thanks me for the game, and unplugs his controller. I call after him making sure he knew this was a tournament set, he tells me that it was, and leaves anyway. I'm confused; what about the rest of our set? I'd seen him playing 2 games with everyone else in the pool, so I was certain he knew the format. Anyway, he didn't return to the setup for the rest of the wave and I recorded the set as 2-0 in his favor. It was only later when I complained to another smasher that I had only got the 1 game with him that they pointed out that leaving a set unfinished and not returning in the wave counts as formfitting and disqualifying yourself from the set. Therefore, on a technicality, I have beaten the best melee player in the world.
Honest mistake by Armada, and you didn't do anything wrong, but I'm surprised you didn't say you wanted your second match! Star struck? Anyway, had a TO witnessed, he had better put armada in losers bracket.
 
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Masteroki

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 22, 2016
Messages
74
This is random but I would love to see more character specific round robins, the captain falcon round robin was so good and literally every player there got me hype.
 

Sempai

Smash Ace
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Apr 9, 2007
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614
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Wildwood/St.Louis, MO
This is random but I would love to see more character specific round robins, the captain falcon round robin was so good and literally every player there got me hype.
Yah but its falcon, everybody likes watching falcon, I dont think everybody wants to watch fox, peach or jiggs dittos XD
 

Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
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Yah but its falcon, everybody likes watching falcon, I dont think everybody wants to watch fox, peach or jiggs dittos XD
Fox dittos can be pretty hype if both players are REALLY good, if they low level then never mind lol.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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That was probably the highest level fox dittos ever. Mango and Alex19 had been paying a ton of dittos up to that point... And what do you know, mango beat Armada in fox dittos and Alex beat silent wolf.
 

GenNyan

Smash Ace
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574
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Florida
Falco dittos can be pretty sick. And on top of that, we've got a lot of really good falcos at the top now, so its really up in the air as to who would win. But thats just me being a biased falco main.

If its an exhibition and there's no money involved, people (probably/hopefully) won't play lame, so I think Luigi, Ganon, Marth, Mario, and even Samus dittos would end up being pretty hype.

Lots of players just dont like fox tho, thats what Im referring to. But yah did u see GF of Genesis 3 XD, thats hype ****.
Well you don't necessarily need to please everyone all the time, these would probably just be one-off events.
 

GenNyan

Smash Ace
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Cause people get bored and do stuff for cheap entertainment.
How much entertainment can you actually get from taking a site down? You are literally preventing yourself from seeing their reactions. People are stupid.

also I blame Plunder Plunder and Spak Spak because of their hacking skills
 
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Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
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How much entertainment can you actually get from taking a site down? You are literally preventing yourself from seeing their reactions. People are stupid.

also I blame Plunder Plunder and Spak Spak because of their hacking skills
hell if I know lol. People do like to do dumb things.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
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Someone's probably going to hack GameFAQs and nobody will notice.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
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Did anyone actually check the FaceBook page?
This is their description on the about page:

Nigerian Cyber Army
We Hack for Cause
We do the Right things
We are United

And they are a "ethical hacking" group, although ethical hacking is trying to hack someone's stuff with their permission (usually on a private server so it doesn't effect the population's accessibility) so that they don't get hacked for real. Since they actually hacked a live site, I'm guessing that they tried to literally translate something and didn't know that "ethical hacking" is already a term that is frequently used. Either that or I've misunderstood the term "ethical hacking" for a few years.

EDIT: Also, what does it mean by "YOu Just got STAMPED"? I'm not sure what getting STAMPED is (unless I'm a letter/bill and someone is paying for my travels).
 
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Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
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Las Vegas, NV
3DS FC
1075-1816-9029
If the "Nigerian army" whatever a legit group. Why a gaming website? What political value does Smashboards have? Lol
 
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