Melee retirement age & How long will Melee be thriving competitively?

[Cool]

I honestly feel like anyone can play Melee and that it will live forever.

 

[Bones0]

C'mon Bones.

When Brawl came out it was beating Melee. The people that thought that would continue/last and Melee would fade away were short-sighted, they were wrong. That's about as simple and straightforward as it gets, can't explain it in any simpler terms.

Almost everyone, at least to an extent, was worried Melee would die. So unless you're saying everyone was short-sighted, idk what you're arguing. Just go read some threads from that time period. Hell, even the doc covered this topic. I hate to bring join dates into arguments but yours is pretty indicative of your naivety on the community's history.

 

[kingPiano]

Almost everyone, at least to an extent, was worried Melee would die. So unless you're saying everyone was short-sighted, idk what you're arguing. Just go read some threads from that time period. Hell, even the doc covered this topic. I hate to bring join dates into arguments but yours is pretty indicative of your naivety on the community's history.

I know the history, not every one was afraid Melee would die (I certainly wasn't). If you're looking to throw insults based on empty assumptions or start an argument you can PM me. Continue on this thread and I won't bother wasting time to respond.


.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

C'mon Bones.

When Brawl came out it was beating Melee only cause it was new but it didn't offer what Melee could. The people that thought that would continue/last and Melee would fade away were short-sighted, they were wrong. That's about as simple and straightforward as it gets, can't explain it in any simpler terms.

I believe that I was the FIRST person to say that Brawl was going to be terrible compared to melee and that in the future Melee would still be the preferred game (for tournaments)

I was saying this based off trailers for Brawl alone.

I got a LOT of hate for it back in the day.... but it's refershing to see that I was completely right about Brawl.

I was hoping smash 4 would learn from Brawls shortcomings... I actually thought it was going to be smash 64-esque but I was sadly mistaken.

 

[Massive]

I know the history, not every one was afraid Melee would die (I certainly wasn't). If you're looking to throw insults based on empty assumptions or start an argument you can PM me. Continue on this thread and I won't bother wasting time to respond..

Being personally worried is not the same as the community being worried.

Keep in mind that with the exception of M2K, Brawl killed the original pantheon of smash gods.

Let that sink in for a minute. The best players at the time thought brawl had killed melee and quit.

I personally watched several communities of smash players dissolve, and close friends leave the scene forever.
A lot of people thought large scale competitive melee was over, that it would be relegated to side events like smash 64 was (at the time), and that we had our heyday.

Brawl nearly destroyed this community, and saying anything other than that is clear evidence that you either weren't paying attention at all or are in serious denial.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

^^ Very good point.

If it weren't for Brawl we might see PC Chris playing at the same level as Armada / Mango if he had never given up on playing SSBM at an extremely high level.

 

[kingPiano]

Being personally worried is not the same as the community being worried.

Keep in mind that with the exception of M2K, Brawl killed the original pantheon of smash gods.

Let that sink in for a minute. The best players at the time thought brawl had killed melee and quit.

I personally watched several communities of smash players dissolve, and close friends leave the scene forever.
A lot of people thought large scale competitive melee was over, that it would be relegated to side events like smash 64 was (at the time), and that we had our heyday.

Brawl nearly destroyed this community, and saying anything other than that is clear evidence that you either weren't paying attention at all or are in serious denial.

Or perhaps it's clear evidence that my local scene still supported Melee and I didn't have a sheep mentality?

To those that left the scene and gave up. That's exactly what I just said and both of you seem to be offended by it, desperately wanting to force an argument (it seems you didn't properly read my initial comment correctly, Bones took it off into a weird tangent and now you are paraphrasing things I never even implied). The majority initially were short sighted and allowed others to influence their opinions. It shows that they didn't really have the commitment to stick it out anyways, you both seem to be taking my observation very personal for some reason. To me it was obvious that Melee would comeback, Brawl was so atrocious and was such an obvious devolution of the series. All the locals I played Melee with hated Brawl.

PC Chris quit because it didn't take much to nudge him into making that decision, same with Ken and Azen. They all had tired of Smash in general, Ken was tired of melee long before Brawl came about. All the other veterans stuck it out and eventually helped usher the revivals of Melee because they saw that the game still offered something Brawl couldn't and that tons of others were still as passionate as they were about it. This brought in new blood and new gods which every competitive game needs. Even if Brawl had not ever come out PC and Ken would have been dethroned as the game evolved, having the same exact people dominate the top spots FOREVER would have actually killed Melee in itself. You need people like Mango, Axe, AmsA, DJ Nintendo, Armada, Leffen, Shroomed, etc to actually keep the game alive and thriving.

 

[Massive]

Or perhaps it's clear evidence that my local scene still supported Melee and I didn't have a sheep mentality?

Your local scene isn't a microcosm of the national scene, nobody's is. People who supported melee and only melee at brawl's release were in the extreme minority at the time. Almost every major player tried to play brawl for varying periods of time and gave up. Some of them went back to melee and revived it.

To those that left the scene and gave up. That's exactly what I just said and both of you seem to be offended by it, desperately wanting to force an argument (it seems you didn't properly read my initial comment correctly, Bones took it off into a weird tangent and now you are paraphrasing things I never even implied).

I'm not trying to force any argument, and neither is bones (most of the time). We are getting offended because you are posting **** like this:

The majority initially were short sighted and allowed others to influence their opinions. It shows that they didn't really have the commitment to stick it out anyways, you both seem to be taking my observation very personal for some reason.

People desperately wanted brawl to be competitive. Those of us there from early in melee's inception remember how long it took before we discovered advanced tactics, everyone who was anyone wanted to discover them and be one of the first technical players in a new game. Many of us gave brawl some serious effort trying to unlock and understand it, but to no avail. Calling those people short-sighted and lacking commitment because the game failed to have any depth is not only unfair, it's insulting.

To me it was obvious that Melee would comeback, Brawl was so atrocious and was such an obvious devolution of the series. All the locals I played Melee with hated Brawl.

Again, your local scene is not a microcosm of the national scene. Your experiences are uniquely yours and you cannot pass judgement or make blanket statements based on only that experience.

All the other veterans stuck it out and eventually helped usher the revivals of Melee because they saw that the game still offered something Brawl couldn't and that tons of others were still as passionate as they were about it.

My main point of contention is that very few veterans "stuck it out". Many of them tried very hard to make brawl awesome and failed, then came back to melee. If there was some "veteran core" of melee players left when brawl was released there would've still been large scale tourneys with both brawl and melee during that time, but it's pretty easy to see that melee tourneys of any size didn't return until after a nearly year-long dormancy.

 

[Jestar]

Brawl nearly destroyed this community

You have my permission to lightning kick anyone who calls Brawl a sequel to Melee.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

2007 baby

http://smashboards.com/threads/who-else-is-nervous-about-brawl-potentially-sucking.97393/

My epic thread that led to my online notoriety.

 

[kingPiano]

Your local scene isn't a microcosm of the national scene, nobody's is. People who supported melee and only melee at brawl's release were in the extreme minority at the time. Almost every major player tried to play brawl for varying periods of time and gave up. Some of them went back to melee and revived it.

I'm not trying to force any argument, and neither is bones (most of the time). We are getting offended because you are posting **** like this:

Again, your local scene is not a microcosm of the national scene. Your experiences are uniquely yours and you cannot pass judgement or make blanket statements based on only that experience.
.

When did I ever say anything concerning the national scene? You keep ranting about the national scene and my local scene being different. Yes thank you captain obvious, the "majority" of smashers embarrassingly jumped on the Brawl bandwagon... I've already said this, so what's your point? I never said my local scene or even my opinion was a reflection of the national scene. In fact this whole time I've said the opposite.

Good lord at this point you are arguing against yourself. If you are insulted by the word "short-sighted" well I can't help you there, that just a matter of being over-sensitive. But there were people like Dylan and I that knew that Brawl was a joke and that Melee would obviously come back. Like I said in my area the majority wanted to continue with the superior game; Melee, I didn't give a crap about the national scene at the time or even the larger regional scene. They all eventually came to their senses and actually I can pass judgement because like Dylan, I wasn't short-sighted and I actually supported Melee during the Brawl era.

 

[Squire]

This thread used to be cool.

 

[Jestar]

Considering competitive Zelda (the original one for NES) is still a thing..... yeah Melee isn't going anywhere.

This right here. Eventually the scene will get smaller and disappear from the spotlight and major tournaments because time keeps moving and nothing lasts forever, but it will never truly die.

The only thing that could really "kill" it is if Hal Laboratory came back and made a "real" sequel to their master piece. Or get a new director with a desire to bring back a Melee like smash.

A guy once said that you can keep the director and change the whole team and get a completely different game. (He made a pretty sick article talking about how Melee wasn't an "accident" in the competitive area and was really intended the whole time or something like that. Wish I could find it again.)

It's scary how accurate that statement is.

64 and Melee were made by Hal, Brawl and 4 were not. The director is the same for all the games. Look at how different the first 2 play compared to the later 2.

At the end of the day, as long as there is even just the smallest amount of people dedicated to keeping the game alive, no matter how small the scene is, it will never die.

Want proof? Melee expanded and improved 64 in nearly every way possible. There is almost no reason to play 64 outside nostalgia when Melee is an option yet 64 is still played to this day competitively.

tldr: Time will eventually remove Melee from the spotlight and major tournaments, but it will never truly die.

This thread used to be cool.

Hey it's the guy with the Mario trigger! Good to see you again!

I skimmed through the first page to see how cool it used to be like you said. Definitely some good stuff there.

 

[Spak]

64 and Melee were made by Hal, Brawl and 4 were not. The director is the same for all the games. Look at how different the first 2 play compared to the later 2.

You made some good points, but this part isn't exactly true. Melee and 64 were made by Hal, Brawl was made by a combination of Hal and Sora, and Sm4sh was made by Sora and Namco-Bandai, so Brawl was made by Hal as well.

 

[Jestar]

You made some good points, but this part isn't exactly true. Melee and 64 were made by Hal, Brawl was made by a combination of Hal and Sora, and Sm4sh was made by Sora and Namco-Bandai, so Brawl was made by Hal as well.

Game arts was the main developer for Brawl. I believe Hal helped with music and giving the brawl development team the melee development tools, but they didn't do much else, if anything else.

And where did I say Smash 4 was made by Hal?

 

[Spak]

Game arts was the main developer for Brawl. I believe Hal helped with music and giving the brawl development team the melee development tools, but they didn't do much else, if anything else.

And where did I say Smash 4 was made by Hal?

OK, I wasn't sure how much Hal did what because a lot of companies did at least some work on it, but I remembered Hal was at least in part of the production process. Also, I wasn't saying you said Sm4sh was made by Hal. I was just clarifying the developers of the games.

 

[Jestar]

OK, I wasn't sure how much Hal did what because a lot of companies did at least some work on it, but I remembered Hal was at least in part of the production process. Also, I wasn't saying you said Sm4sh was made by Hal. I was just clarifying the developers of the games.

We all learn something new.

And I probably should've included the other developer names but I just assumed everyone knew who they were and because I thought it looked better that way.

It's all good at the end of the day though.

 

[Squire]

Hey it's the guy with the Mario trigger! Good to see you again!

Sup

 

[Jestar]

Sup

Your profile picture makes that response perfect.

 

[dietsnapple89]

I thought I was done with Melee in 2009 because alot of people either moved onto Brawl or just left the scene. So I left too. I only recently came back, and honestly I feel better as a player now than back then even though I played a lot more back in the day, and I am older than 25. Thank Samox for making the documentary, which helped attract a lot of young players to Melee. Its given me a reason to return to melee, which has always been my favorite multiplayer game of all time. Although, life obligations will not allow me to play as much as I want now, I can still see myself going to monthlies and some occasional smash fests as long as people keep holding them in the future. I think I'll stop when I know I can no longer compete with the youngbloods(35+ maybe?)

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

Melee will never be dead. There was always a large following for the entire series.

I've been playing a very old and not very popular or mainstream game and it is still going sting after 15 years. There aren't very many people playing but it still has servers with 50+.

Smash is just to big to ever go extinct.

 

[JohnnyDelMidwest]

Melee isn't going away. It has been obsolete for about six years now and the only thing fueling it is the obsessive nature of its fanbase. Unless the obsessive melee community stops being obsessive, it will be around forever.

 

[kingPiano]

Melee will never be dead. There was always a large following for the entire series.

I've been playing a very old and not very popular or mainstream game and it is still going sting after 15 years. There aren't very many people playing but it still has servers with 50+.

Smash is just to big to ever go extinct.

I wish Worms 2 still had US servers :'(

I really miss ninja rope matches

 

[Spak]

It has been obsolete for about six years now and the only thing fueling it is the obsessive nature of its fanbase.

I wouldn't use the word "obsolete" until an official game with a higher skill cap and gameplay that is nearly as fast and technical comes out.

 

[GONZLAMM]

reflexes do not lower with age. reflexes actually INCREASE with age. they start to taper off around age 50-60+. science. and i think if were ever going to move competitive gaming into the spotlight we need to move away from this notion of being too old to play video games. there is no such thing as being too old. thats a scruby mindset. for the first time in human history we have large groups of the human race that dont need to get jobs or contribute to society in anyway. the idea that everyone needs a job and to start a family and buy a house is an old school idea that only hurts people burys others in debt. we dont live on farms anymore. you dont need to get up everyday as a child and work your fathers land or your family STARVES TO DEATH. society is so rich right now that people can choose to live life through their ambitions rather than conform to an outdated idea of "growing up". we have competitive poker for christ sakes. esports is coming and it will be bigger than any sport event. games have taken over the world.

 

[Jestar]

the idea that everyone needs a job and to start a family and buy a house is an old school idea that only hurts people burys others in debt.

I agree with this soooo much.

Seems like everyone thinks you need/expects you to have kids or you become some sort of failure.

You don't need to have kids to be happy or successful.

If staying single or having a girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse and not having any kids makes you happy, that's all that matters.

I hate kids. Never wanted them, never will.

Having them would ruin my life.

And I'm not gonna destroy my life just to "fulfill" an old mentality that doesn't apply to me.

The same applies to esports.

If you can make a living on it and enjoy doing it, why stop and get a "real job" that you'll hate just to fill a mentality that doesn't apply to you?

Look at those people on YouTube who get millions of views on the videos they make and are making tons of cash.

And people tell them to stop and get a "real job"?

I challenge those people to compare their year end income with them.

Then ask them and the you-tubers how much they enjoy their jobs.

Who has the happier life?

 

[kingPiano]

reflexes do not lower with age. reflexes actually INCREASE with age. they start to taper off around age 50-60+. science. and i think if were ever going to move competitive gaming into the spotlight we need to move away from this notion of being too old to play video games. there is no such thing as being too old. thats a scruby mindset. for the first time in human history we have large groups of the human race that dont need to get jobs or contribute to society in anyway. the idea that everyone needs a job and to start a family and buy a house is an old school idea that only hurts people burys others in debt. we dont live on farms anymore. you dont need to get up everyday as a child and work your fathers land or your family STARVES TO DEATH. society is so rich right now that people can choose to live life through their ambitions rather than conform to an outdated idea of "growing up". we have competitive poker for christ sakes. esports is coming and it will be bigger than any sport event. games have taken over the world.

 

[Spak]

for the first time in human history we have large groups of the human race that dont need to get jobs or contribute to society in anyway.

Not sure if I dig that mindset... I feel like having a reliable source of income at least until you can safely transition to a full entertainment or e-sports occupation is a good idea. If you listen to accounts of youtubers before they got popular, a lot of them had jobs and just did the whole making videos thing as a hobby. This might change over time as the average age of youtube stars might start getting younger (merely a hypothesis with little data to back it up), but I feel like doing e-sports or internet entertainment full-time isn't really a safe occupation at the moment... I wouldn't put all of my eggs in one basket if the basket breaking could cause me to not have a main source of income and lose pretty much everything.

 

[Squire]

we have large groups of the human race that dont need to get jobs or contribute to society in anyway.

This is a joke right? Like, you're not actually trying to justify sitting on your ass and doing nothing for anyone your whole life, right?

the idea that everyone needs a job and to start a family and buy a house is an old school idea that only hurts people

You don't need a family, sure, I can dig that. But you're not seriously suggesting that you can just opt out of the working world because you're a fan of Melee, are you?

society is so rich right now that people can choose to live life through their ambitions

Walk outside of your house, man. A ten second internet search says 14.5% of Americans live below the poverty line. 14.3% of Americans suffered from starvation last year. This isn't just wrong, it's completely insulting.

I didn't realize you lived in Candy Land, where everyone can just play video games for a living and we don't need an infrastructure because... we're... rich?.. or something?

 

[kingPiano]

This is a joke right? Like, you're not actually trying to justify sitting on your *** and doing nothing for anyone your whole life, right?



You don't need a family, sure, I can dig that. But you're not seriously suggesting that you can just opt out of the working world because you're a fan of Melee, are you?



Walk outside of your house, man. A ten second internet search says 14.5% of Americans live below the poverty line. 14.3% of Americans suffered from starvation last year. This isn't just wrong, it's completely insulting.

I didn't realize you lived in Candy Land, where everyone can just play video games for a living and we don't need an infrastructure because... we're... rich?.. or something?

Squire I think your words might be wasted. After initially saying something like "reflexes do not lower with age. reflexes actually INCREASE with age. they start to taper off around age 50-60+. science." it seemed quite apparent everything that followed was going to be candy-land facts and opinions.


So yea, how bout them Melees. Woo :O

 

[Squire]

 

[Jestar]

Once again, another perfect response.