Maybe we can get Sakurai to make another balancing patch...

[Mr.ケイ]

This is a thought I had, what if we as a community banned together to spam Nintendo with demands for one last and final character balancing patch to incorporate changes to allow for more combo potential to characters who need it. Just think about it, they've already shown us that they've been listening to us since they host annual Smash tournaments now. And we also know they are capable of doing a patch.

To set some ground rules to the changes we want:
1. No changes involving the mechanics or physics of the game...and by this I mean no asking for L-canceling or wave dashing. Sakurai himself even stated in a recent Q&A that he doesn't want to add techs like that, and to ask him to do so would eliminate any chance we have of getting anything fixed.
2. Changes should only involve stuff like knock back, damage, shield damage, hit boxes, frames (start up, cool down, and hits)...an example would be like adding range to Marth's sword or reducing the knock back of Marth's down throw to allow for easier follow ups.

Lets work together to come up with the changes we want beforehand and then send them to Nintendo via their mailing address (found on their website), and any other means (excluding anything illegal).

I understand any skeptics out there that doubt that this would even be possible, and to that I say be a little more optimistic, if we fail we fail, what's the worst that can happen?

 

[Mr.ケイ]

Here is an example of what I mean...

~Captain Falcon~

-Change D-air to only spike:

• Change non-spiking hit into weaker spiking hit. BKB and KBG of 10b/100g, and 8% damage instead of 40b/100g and 14%.

-Decrease the power of U-throw:

• Decrease the BKB and KBG to 70b/90g (frame 1-11) and 55b/85g (frame 12-13) instead of 80b/110g (frame 1-11) and 60b/100g (frame 12-13).

Changing hit spike is actually a change I'd like to be made across the board for nearly all spiking move.
Decreasing the BKB (base knock back) and KBG (knock back growth) will decrease how far his U-throw sends you, and since it has a trajectory angle of 85°, it can set up nicely for a follow up like F-air, but is not a guaranteed follow up.

These changes I imagine are simple changes for the developers to make and would not change the dynamic of casual play either, only improve on competitive play. I whole-heartedly believe we can convince them to apply these changes if we give them the changes we want, and keep them relatively simply.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

~Kind Dedede~

-Increase the power of U-tilt:

• Change the BKB and KBG to 60b/110g instead of 50b/80g (do it for both hit boxes).
• Change the damage to 14% and 11% instead of 12% and 10%.

-Increase the power of F-tilt:

• Change the BKB and KBG for frames 23-23 to 45b/195g instead of 30b/190g.

• Change the damage of frame 23-23 to 4% instead of 3%.

-Increase the power of F-air:

• Change BKB and KBG to 20b/95g instead of 15b/90g.

• Change damage to 13% instead of 12%.

-Increase the power of B-air:

• Change BKB and KBG to 35b/92g instead of 30b/88g.

-Change spike box of D-air to only a spiking hit (except for ground-target-only):

• Change non-spiking hit to a weaker spiking hit. BKB and KBG of 20b/90g instead of 20b/100g, keep damage the same.

-Decrease the power of D-throw:

• Change the BKB and KBG to 60b/72g instead of 70b/82g.

-Increase the power of F-throw:

• Change the BLB and KBG to 88b/98g (frame 1-11) and 40b/165g (frame 12-13) instead of 70b/80g (frame 1-11) and 30b/150g (frame 12-13).
• Change damage to 7% (1-11) and 5% (12-13) instead of 6% (frame 1-11) and 4% (frame 12-13).

These changes revolve around giving power to tilts and aerials to give DDD more air dominance and KO potential, without changing any of his smashes, which is the go to move for noobs. Increasing the power of F-throw give him a KO option, and decreasing power for D-throw gives him a window to follow up with an aerial.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

~Donkey Kong~

-Reduce the cool down of F-tilt:

• Remove 4 frames of cool down.
• Reduce the cool down of U-tilt:
• Remove 4 frames of cool down.

-Reduce the start up of D-tilt:

• Remove 1 frame of start up.

-Increase the power of non-spiking hit box of F-air:

• Change the damage of frame 21-22 to 16% instead of 13% for non-spiking hit.

-Increase the power of U-air:

• Change the BKB and KBG to 36b/94g instead of 32b/90g.

-Change spike box of D-air to only be a spike:

• Change non-spiking hit into a weaker spiking hit. BKB and KBG of 30b/90g and 10% instead of 20b/90g and 13%.

-Increase the power of grab pummels:

• Change damage to 3.1% instead of 2.1%.

-Decrease power of D-throw:

• Change BKB and KBG to 50b/45g instead of 60b/50g.

The changes here I'd like to see for DK is primarily in his tilts by making them a bit fast and more viable in spacing. Also his F-air non spiking hit would be a KO move as well as U-air. And just like Captain Falco, he was hits to his D-air that don't spike, and they should be changed to weaker spikes. Increase pummel damage and decreased D-throw power gives him a better grab game.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

~Duckhunt~

-Decrease power of D-throw:

• Change BKB to 60 instead of 70.

-Increase the power of the can:

• Change BKB and KBG to 44b/112g instead of 40b/110g (Trick shot)
• Change BKB and KBG to 44b/102g instead of 40b/100g (High-Explosive Shot)
• Change BKB and KBG to 44b/122g instead of 40b/120g (Zigzag Shot)

Lowering the power change of D-throw improves his follow up options. And slightly raising the power of the can makes it easier to KO with it.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

~Falco~

-Increase the power of D-tilt:

• Change BKB and KBG to 60b/100g, 40b/ 92g, and 40b/92g instead of 50b/90g, 35b/88g, and 35b/88g.

-Reduce the cool down of N-air:

• Remove 4 frames of cool down both in air and 2 in landing.

-Reduce the cool down of F-air:

• Remove 6 frames of cool down both in air and 4 in landing.

-Extend the duration of the spike box of D-air:

• Change frames to 15-20 instead of 16-18 (spike), and 21-30 instead of 19-30 (non-spike).

-Decrease the power of D-throw:

• Change BKB and KBG to 50b/ 95g instead of 60b/110g.

Raising the power of his D-tilt (all 3 of the hit boxes) to this degree will make it a much better KO move. Decreasing the cool down of his N-air and F-air gives him better approach options. Extending the spiking hit of his D-air makes spiking easier and more practical. Finally Lowering the power of his D-throw allows for better follow up.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

~Fox~

-Decrease the power of U-throw:

• Chang BKB and KBG to 65b/95g instead of 75b/110g.

Changing his U-throw to being weaker gives him a follow up option akin to that of Melee Fox's U-throw U-air.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

That's a septuple post! And I thought my double posting habit was bad.

Anyway, spamming Nintendo's social network feed and then giving specific balancing instructions won't really work. This is a problem they'll have to notice themselves, and as developers, I'm sure they have. Now it's up to the development team to decide if balance patches are worth the effort.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

Yeah, I didn't think through the multiple posts that much...

I'm just saying that we as a community have been asking for a game with more combos and balance, but have done little to nothing to make it happen. The other thing is that Sakurai said he has no plans to make another balancing patch, now if that is true, there's no way it will happen if we leave it to the developers. If we want it to happen, we have to take the initiative to make it happen, and I'm spitballing ideas.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

Yeah, I didn't think through the multiple posts that much...

I'm just saying that we as a community have been asking for a game with more combos and balance, but have done little to nothing to make it happen. The other thing is that Sakurai said he has no plans to make another balancing patch, now if that is true, there's no way it will happen if we leave it to the developers. If we want it to happen, we have to take the initiative to make it happen, and I'm spitballing ideas.

Nintendo isn't the kind of company to release a game, then make a bunch of changes after launch. We were lucky to get the initial patches in the first place.

I think competitive play for the newest games will be fine. Let's see how they do at Apex and Evo. From what I've experienced so far, matches are exciting to watch and fun to play.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

Nintendo isn't the kind of company to release a game, then make a bunch of changes after launch. We were lucky to get the initial patches in the first place.

I think competitive play for the newest games will be fine. Let's see how they do at Apex and Evo. From what I've experienced so far, matches are exciting to watch and fun to play.

I definitely agree we should wait and see Apex, but I'm also saying the community should get more involved in how the Smash games are made, because there are several characters who heavily lack combos, and some design choices to certain moves that are just bad.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

I definitely agree we should wait and see Apex, but I'm also saying the community should get more involved in how the Smash games are made, because there are several characters who heavily lack combos, and some design choices to certain moves that are just bad.

A lot of people forget that this is a casual party game turned competitive. Though I'm not saying that to offend the competitive scene.

Sakurai said it himself, you can play competitively if you want, but it won't ever be the main focus of the game. Now, with Nintendo of America supporting Smash as an esport, we could potentially see more competitive elements in future games. Don't expect anything too drastic though.

As for the community providing input... I say just leave it to the top members of the community and the developers. Remember when Sakurai was doing interviews and one of them got mistranslated? Remember the rage? Yeah... It's hard to communicate with creators sometimes. It may also be hard for them to communicate with us. There's a language barrier, a cultural barrier, a demographic barrier, and more when it comes to this series.

The future of Smash is in good hands. We'll see this community continue to grow in the future. However, we won't get anything too advanced or technical any time soon.

 

[Mr.ケイ]

That is true, but that shouldn't stop up in trying to communicate...we have to start somewhere.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

That is true, but that shouldn't stop up in trying to communicate...we have to start somewhere.

We already have started. Like I said, with NoA supporting Smash as an esport, we might get more competitive infuence in the next game. Don't expect a Project M-like result out of Nintendo though.

 

[Golden Sun]

You sir are one very informational person
what we really need nerfed:
Dthrow to Uair