• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

matchup thread!

kevinw0w

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
279
Location
Texas A&M
The below list is completely tentative so let's discuss/debate!

edit 12/2/14 (first 3.5 update)
DK from favorable to even
DDD from even to favorable
Pit from unfavorable to even
ZSS from unfavorable to even
Zelda from unfavorable to even
Link from unfavorable to favorable
Wolf from even to unfavorable

Favorable

:link2:
:wario:
:luigi2:
:peach:
:bowser2:
:yoshi2:
:falcon:
:ganondorf:
:ness2:
:ike:
:marth:
:rob:
:samus2:
:ivysaur:
:olimar:
:sonic:
:pikachu2:
:gw:
:snake:
:dedede:


Even

:dk2:
:roypm:
:toonlink:
:mario2:
:diddy:
:lucario:
:squirtle:
:charizard:
:falco:
:pit:
:zerosuitsamus:
:zelda:


Unfavorable

:fox:
:wolf:
:lucas:
:popo:
:metaknight:
:kirby2:
:jigglypuff:
:mewtwopm:
 
Last edited:

Shrug

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Springfield, IL
I disagree with your categorization of the ICs matchup. Spacing with bairs and occasionally poking in with a fair works pretty well for me to split them up. Once it's down to SoPo, he's really easy to edgeguard with bairs and fairs. Also, I'm pretty sure the matchup was in Sheik's favor in Melee, so I don't see what leads you to switch that around here.

Also, I very minorly disagree with Game & Watch being favorable for Sheik. When he gets me off the stage, it seems like he has a lot of tools to keep me off (d-tilt for the ledge, f-smash/up smash for landing on the stage). However, I feel like Game & Watch is at that perfect combination of weight and floatiness for Sheik's combos to flow pretty easily. Could you expand on why you put Game & Watch in the favorable category?

Also, I think the Falco matchup is fairly even. Falco dominates on-stage mostly, but I find gimping and edgeguarding Falco to be fairly easy.

Thanks for opening this thread. I'd love to hear what others think about some of these matchups.
 

Zekk

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
180
Is it just me or does shiek do really well against Yoshi
 

kevinw0w

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
279
Location
Texas A&M
I disagree with your categorization of the ICs matchup. Spacing with bairs and occasionally poking in with a fair works pretty well for me to split them up. Once it's down to SoPo, he's really easy to edgeguard with bairs and fairs. Also, I'm pretty sure the matchup was in Sheik's favor in Melee, so I don't see what leads you to switch that around here.

Also, I very minorly disagree with Game & Watch being favorable for Sheik. When he gets me off the stage, it seems like he has a lot of tools to keep me off (d-tilt for the ledge, f-smash/up smash for landing on the stage). However, I feel like Game & Watch is at that perfect combination of weight and floatiness for Sheik's combos to flow pretty easily. Could you expand on why you put Game & Watch in the favorable category?

Also, I think the Falco matchup is fairly even. Falco dominates on-stage mostly, but I find gimping and edgeguarding Falco to be fairly easy.

Thanks for opening this thread. I'd love to hear what others think about some of these matchups.
I have yet to fight any ICs, but the matchup is in IC's favor in melee, iirc.

G&W isn't one I'm too familiar with either. I duo main sheik and ivy, and I usually just go ivy against G&W's because I think the matchup is easier for ivy. One of the main reasons I think sheik wins though, is because of G&W's atrocious tech rolls. I kind of agree with you regarding the offstage game, but I think sheik can edgeguard G&W just as easily.

yeah, the matchup is even in melee, so I can't remember why I switched it here. I've changed it now.

Thanks for your input!
 

Shrug

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Springfield, IL
Wow, just checked the ICs matchup in Melee, and you're right. It's in IC's favor. That's pretty surprising to me. I guess it's because Sheik has trouble doing anything with grabs because either she'll grab Nana on accident or she'll grab Popo, and Nana will hit you.

You make a good point about G&W's tech rolls and edgeguardability.

I definitely agree with Zekk that Sheik vs. Yoshi is really good for Sheik. The grab game against Yoshi is really good, and if you can catch Yoshi double jumping, then you basically take the stock.
 

NickLeo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
80
Location
Wellington, FL
I'm not too sure if the ivy matchup is even
Sheiks needles go straight through razor leaf cutting off ivy's best approach tool and from their gets combo'd hard in the neutral.
Sheiks baiting and punish game is much stronger and once ivy is off stage, either a needle or dropping nair will destroy her tether
 

Captain Faceroll

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
173
I disagree with your categorization of the ICs matchup. Spacing with bairs and occasionally poking in with a fair works pretty well for me to split them up. Once it's down to SoPo, he's really easy to edgeguard with bairs and fairs. Also, I'm pretty sure the matchup was in Sheik's favor in Melee, so I don't see what leads you to switch that around here.

Also, I very minorly disagree with Game & Watch being favorable for Sheik. When he gets me off the stage, it seems like he has a lot of tools to keep me off (d-tilt for the ledge, f-smash/up smash for landing on the stage). However, I feel like Game & Watch is at that perfect combination of weight and floatiness for Sheik's combos to flow pretty easily. Could you expand on why you put Game & Watch in the favorable category?
ICs is one of sheik's worst matchups in melee :/

I think sheik destroys g&w. He's just at such a convenient combo weight for everything sheik would want to do. Also he gets chaingrabbed really easily even if they di well. And since he's light he dies super early to up-airs and the like. If you are getting hit by his d-tilt you need to sweetspot the ledge better. I used to have the exact same problem with him just spamming d-tilt on the ledge, but I got better at timing my invincibility and shino stalling and he can't do anything anymore.
 
Last edited:

Shrug

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Springfield, IL
Could you elaborate on the ICs matchup or direct me to a more thorough explanation of the matchup? I'm not an experienced player. I play regularly with an ICs main, and I don't feel like it's that bad for Sheik. It's a bit rough since grabbing usually isn't an option, but splitting them up and then edgeguarding SoPo is fairly easy, I think.

Thanks for the advice on G&W's dtilt!

Does anyone know much about the Charizard matchup? I think it might actually be in Sheik's favor. In my experience, comboing Charizard is especially easy. Does Charizard have something that balances this out?
 

Captain Faceroll

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
173
Could you elaborate on the ICs matchup or direct me to a more thorough explanation of the matchup? I'm not an experienced player. I play regularly with an ICs main, and I don't feel like it's that bad for Sheik. It's a bit rough since grabbing usually isn't an option, but splitting them up and then edgeguarding SoPo is fairly easy, I think.
I'm not the greatest sheik player out there, so I don't mean to imply that I know everything :)

But basically a lot of sheik's game is based off of her grabs. That's effectively nullified vs. ICs because if you grab one the other one will just hit you out of it (think trying to grab some1 in a doubles match 2v1, you won't actually be able to get the throw off)

So once we establish that going for grabs is not the greatest idea, what do you have left? Well you can do your standard f-air spacing or dash attack approaches, but both of those are shieldable or easily CC'd. Not to mention iceclimbers are kind of small especially when crouching. So if you go in and they CC a move they have a lot of options with which to hurt you. Mainly downsmash spamming, but they can do other things against you, like grab.

And that leads to arguably the worst part of the matchup. SOPO by himself has a chaingrab against sheik 'til around 100%... which means if you mess up your already limited options, you'll be punished and punished hard.

That on top of the fact that ICs out-range sheik with their hammers, especially in this game where their hammer hitboxes have been adjusted a bit, means that sheik will have a bad day.

It's not impossible, but you have to play very safe and smart. It's possible you're just better than your friend and that's why you're winning. I've definitely beaten ICs before in PM, but they weren't very stellar. If he doesn't know about the chaingrab the matchup is a lot easier to deal with.
 
Last edited:

Shrug

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Springfield, IL
Thanks a lot for the post. It was very helpful! I guess the way you have to approach the matchup is just really not fitting for how Sheik is usually played. He definitely has chaingrabs on me, but I just keep out of his grab range with bairs until I find an opening usually.

Once you get it down to SoPo, I'd still contend that it's at least even. SoPo has chaingrabs, but Sheik gets her grab game back, and edgeguarding is pretty easy once Nana is out of the picture. Your post definitely gave me a better idea of why this matchup is not in Sheik's favor, though.

One other thing about the matchup that I've noticed is that using needles to disrupt ICs' recovery is especially helpful. Sometimes, hitting Nana ends up screwing up an up b, causing Popo to die as well. And even if Popo makes it back, the needles usually end up keeping the less recovery-savvy Nana from recovering.
 

Captain Faceroll

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
173
Yeah the matchup seems to include a lot of needle camping and very good f-air spacing. But the power of sheik is that even in her bad matchups it's still doable :)
 
Last edited:

foxygrandpa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
414
Location
Long Island
sheik loses to ICs because on top of her not dealing with the separation well, she can't contest the space control in the neutral as well as some other characters. Also, dthrow chain grabs sheik, even with only sopo. It did in melee at least, but I must admit I have not seen anyone play with ICs against me.
I dont understand why you would think that she has an even matchup against falco? Its not as bad as fox I mean, but its still slightly disadvantageous for sheik, because of her lack of a proper neutral. Its probably slightly in falcos favor.
I think that she has much more even matchups than she does favorable. Pit, ness, donkey kong, toon link, ROB, g&w, and olimar, are in no way advatantageous for her. They are most likely even. She does well obviously, but theres nothing specifically about sheik that allows her to win those matchups. She doesnt play off any weaknesses like she does to captain falcon.
Samus definitely loses to sheik. Her high priority attacks make samus' poke game slightly obsolete. This was a similar situation in melee.
Sonic vs sheik is terrible for sonic. His attacks have horrendously low priority compared to sheiks, even though they are fast. Sheik can beat sonic with neutral airs and back airs very easily, and pretty much nullify all of his attempts at approacing with spin attacks or aerials.
How does sheik lose to lucas? Lucas is good, and capable of dominating the neutral, but not as effectively as fox can. He is still susceptible to sheik's normal strategy, tricking into unfavorable conditions.
I think the mario matchup might be slighty in marios favor, because of sheik's inability to effectively approach from the air and get passed his fireball spam, but I havent played too many marios.
I feel as if the pit matchup is really strange, and slightly in pits favor, coming from a pit secondary and a sheik main. Pit just beats her in everything, other than her up b being invincible. Its probably slightly in pits favor, but still extremely doable.
Meta knight beats sheik. My training partner plays a very good metaknight, and I have a lot of experience in this matchup. He controls the stage too well for sheik to play favorably, similar to fox. Its still not impossible, but slightly in his favor for sure.
Link is probably in his favor. He can chain grab sheik at low percents using dthrow. He limits sheiks ground options easily with projectile walls and can easily camp sheik, who doesnt have too great of an approach. However, once you are up close, you can pressure him very well, and its very hard for him to get out. Its his grabs that are the real problem. Chain grabs, and at higher percents, dthrow into dair is rough.

I have a lot of experience with sheik, as she's been my main for as long as remember.
And for the record, ICs for sheik is terrible. I secondary fox in melee specifically for ICs and jiggs. If you havent been dthrow chained, you're not playing a very capable ICs. They should be able to somehow grab you. If you're set on doing the matchup though, its not too impossible if you can platform camp them and space them out. As with anyone else, dont let them back onstage once theyre off.
 

kevinw0w

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
279
Location
Texas A&M
sheik loses to ICs because on top of her not dealing with the separation well, she can't contest the space control in the neutral as well as some other characters. Also, dthrow chain grabs sheik, even with only sopo. It did in melee at least, but I must admit I have not seen anyone play with ICs against me.
I dont understand why you would think that she has an even matchup against falco? Its not as bad as fox I mean, but its still slightly disadvantageous for sheik, because of her lack of a proper neutral. Its probably slightly in falcos favor.
I think that she has much more even matchups than she does favorable. Pit, ness, donkey kong, toon link, ROB, g&w, and olimar, are in no way advatantageous for her. They are most likely even. She does well obviously, but theres nothing specifically about sheik that allows her to win those matchups. She doesnt play off any weaknesses like she does to captain falcon.
Samus definitely loses to sheik. Her high priority attacks make samus' poke game slightly obsolete. This was a similar situation in melee.
Sonic vs sheik is terrible for sonic. His attacks have horrendously low priority compared to sheiks, even though they are fast. Sheik can beat sonic with neutral airs and back airs very easily, and pretty much nullify all of his attempts at approacing with spin attacks or aerials.
How does sheik lose to lucas? Lucas is good, and capable of dominating the neutral, but not as effectively as fox can. He is still susceptible to sheik's normal strategy, tricking into unfavorable conditions.
I think the mario matchup might be slighty in marios favor, because of sheik's inability to effectively approach from the air and get passed his fireball spam, but I havent played too many marios.
I feel as if the pit matchup is really strange, and slightly in pits favor, coming from a pit secondary and a sheik main. Pit just beats her in everything, other than her up b being invincible. Its probably slightly in pits favor, but still extremely doable.
Meta knight beats sheik. My training partner plays a very good metaknight, and I have a lot of experience in this matchup. He controls the stage too well for sheik to play favorably, similar to fox. Its still not impossible, but slightly in his favor for sure.
Link is probably in his favor. He can chain grab sheik at low percents using dthrow. He limits sheiks ground options easily with projectile walls and can easily camp sheik, who doesnt have too great of an approach. However, once you are up close, you can pressure him very well, and its very hard for him to get out. Its his grabs that are the real problem. Chain grabs, and at higher percents, dthrow into dair is rough.

I have a lot of experience with sheik, as she's been my main for as long as remember.
And for the record, ICs for sheik is terrible. I secondary fox in melee specifically for ICs and jiggs. If you havent been dthrow chained, you're not playing a very capable ICs. They should be able to somehow grab you. If you're set on doing the matchup though, its not too impossible if you can platform camp them and space them out. As with anyone else, dont let them back onstage once theyre off.
I originally had the Falco matchup to be in his favor, but it's considered even in melee.

I have yet to play against a good Pit, TL, ROB, or Olimar, so I can't comment too much on those as of now.

I think Ness is in Sheik's favor just because of her superior range and Ness being super easy to edgeguard/gimp. Imo, DK is also in Sheik's favor because she wins the neutral and DK has a hard time with Sheik's pressure and getting out of combos. G&W and MK are two that I've played a fair amount, but I like the matchup with Ivysaur better so I'll admit that I don't know too much about those two matchups.

I can agree with your opinion on Samus and Sonic. Haha, I just think Lucas is a crazy good character and the only Lucas mains I've played against are very good.

I've played against tons of Marios, but none were particularly good. I can agree with that though, fireballs are just a very annoying projectile.

The only Link I've played against is Aerolink, and he beat me pretty bad. At the time I just thought he beat me because he's a much better player, but I can agree with the matchup being in his favor. The other real annoyance I had was his boomerang. It can hit confirm into anything including a dair, and it can stop combos/free him from a grab if you get hit by the returning version.

Thanks for your input!
 

Shrug

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Springfield, IL
Does anyone have experience with the Zelda matchup? I've only played against Zelda a few times, and I agree that it's probably unfavorable. The thing is, I am having trouble figuring out exactly what she's doing that tilts the matchup in her favor. It seems like Sheik's superioir mobility would help her out at least somewhat, but Din's fire limits her movement options significantly. This makes avoiding Zelda's strong fsmash, fair, bair, or whatever much more difficult. Could someone who has experience with the matchup explain what has worked for them against Zelda?
 

foxygrandpa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
414
Location
Long Island
Does anyone have experience with the Zelda matchup? I've only played against Zelda a few times, and I agree that it's probably unfavorable. The thing is, I am having trouble figuring out exactly what she's doing that tilts the matchup in her favor. It seems like Sheik's superioir mobility would help her out at least somewhat, but Din's fire limits her movement options significantly. This makes avoiding Zelda's strong fsmash, fair, bair, or whatever much more difficult. Could someone who has experience with the matchup explain what has worked for them against Zelda?
I think its doable on triangle courses like battlefield, but Ive found it kind of difficult on smashville and final destination. strong platform movement seems to be the best option against her. And even though that dins limit mobility, dont be afraid to just clash with the dins and make them disappear
 

Shrug

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Springfield, IL
Thanks for the tips, foxygrandpa (wonderful name, btw). I might be able to practice with a Zelda main fairly regularly in the near future, so I'll give those a try.
 

Kolbin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
36
Location
Houston
Everyone seems to agree on Samus being favorable but can someone explain? I'm fairly new to Sheik and a friend of mine is missile camping on stages like FD making approach crazy hard for me. What's the best options in this scenario?
 

Prynne

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
115
@ Kolbin Kolbin

I personally would respond with an equal or greater number of needles. Then once one of them gets through to actually hitting Samus, dash, shield and continue with needles until you can approach with a dash attack or nair (or something) safely. Chances are they won't really be expecting you to approach if you needle at them. At least this is my best guess. I can't say I'm entirely qualified to give this response. But try it out and if it works, all the better.
 
Last edited:

Kolbin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
36
Location
Houston
Thanks for the help, I studied up a bit on it. It's hard to charge needles on FD while this is going on but I think I have a better grasp on the matchup now.
 

foxygrandpa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
414
Location
Long Island
Thanks for the help, I studied up a bit on it. It's hard to charge needles on FD while this is going on but I think I have a better grasp on the matchup now.
If you can get close to samus and pressure her with jabs, she's pretty helpless. She relies on jabs to distance herself and sheik's jabs beat hers. Also, she could get grab combod by sheik in melee, i dont really know if she can now.
 

Kolbin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
36
Location
Houston
That's good info, on a personal note, my friend is pretty grab-happy and Samus's grab is crazy punishable. So that's a plus.
 

ChrisTehAwesome

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
5
My buddy plays a lot of ivysaur and I'm actually having some trouble despite what it says here. How do you deal with razor leaf dash attacks or up smashes? Also find it hard to punish because of ivys nair. Also hard to DI in the air because there's up smash on top and up b on the side.
 

Shrug

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Springfield, IL
Does anyone have some insight on the Link matchup? I don't have enough experience to have an opinion on it myself, but I'd be interested in knowing what makes it unfavorable.
 

Captain Faceroll

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
173
Coming from linktown (Chicago), where we have 4 or 5 link players, I'd say I have a relatively good knowledge of what happens in the match up.

Honestly I think it's in Sheik's favor, but you have to play very well. Link's projectiles, mainly boomerang, are really hard to overcome in neutral. You can hit them away or powershield, sure, but that puts you in a disadvantageous position and the Link player able to retaliate. It requires a very delicate balance of patience and choosing your approaches wisely. The main thing I think about in this matchup is you need to optimize your punishes as much as possible. Link doesn't have a great OOS game, so if you're able to pressure him safely, you should do it.

My main idea is to try and get a grab and do combos off of that. You need to be aware though of his nair breaking things up and him doing a grounded up-b if you get sloppy. Link has a great punish game on sheik as well, so you have to be careful you don't mess up. His down throw chains into many things. He'll probably d-throw -> u-tilt -> u-tilt until you're at a percentage where he can u-air or d-air you for the kill after a new d-throw. It kind of sucks, but this matchup is honestly a little fun. Both characters destroy each other if they get something going, so it's all about playing the neutral correctly.

I think Sheik has the edgeguarding game and punish game up on link, but he definitely has the upperhand when it comes to neutral (boomerang pls).

Ask any specific questions if you want, I play a variety of links each with their own differing playstyles.
 

Shrug

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Springfield, IL
How much do you use needles in the Link matchup? IIRC, needles beat boomerang (correct me if I'm wrong here). Is this the best way to deal with it other than dodging?

When it comes to edge guarding, when Link uses up B, is it worth trying to challenge it with a bair, or is it too difficult/impossible to hit Link before up b hits Sheik?

As for his tether, how should I deal with that? I haven't played against very many characters with tether recoveries, but I've seen other players grab the ledge to force the tetherer to jump up after tethering the ledge. From there, they usually jump up and hit the tetherer with an aerial. Is this the optimal way to deal with them, or does Sheik have something else to deal with Link's tether?

Sheik doesn't have very good aerial mobility, so getting juggled by up tilts or up smashes seems like it's a problem. Should I hold on to my double jump and take some percent until he hits me a bit higher? That would give me the opportunity to jump away, but I don't know if taking that percent is really the best way to go in that situation.

In the few times I have played Links, I've had a lot of trouble when I'm holding the ledge, and he is standing up there waiting to do his up b. Any advice on dealing with this situation?
 

Captain Faceroll

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
173
How much do you use needles in the Link matchup? IIRC, needles beat boomerang (correct me if I'm wrong here). Is this the best way to deal with it other than dodging?

When it comes to edge guarding, when Link uses up B, is it worth trying to challenge it with a bair, or is it too difficult/impossible to hit Link before up b hits Sheik?

As for his tether, how should I deal with that? I haven't played against very many characters with tether recoveries, but I've seen other players grab the ledge to force the tetherer to jump up after tethering the ledge. From there, they usually jump up and hit the tetherer with an aerial. Is this the optimal way to deal with them, or does Sheik have something else to deal with Link's tether?

Sheik doesn't have very good aerial mobility, so getting juggled by up tilts or up smashes seems like it's a problem. Should I hold on to my double jump and take some percent until he hits me a bit higher? That would give me the opportunity to jump away, but I don't know if taking that percent is really the best way to go in that situation.

In the few times I have played Links, I've had a lot of trouble when I'm holding the ledge, and he is standing up there waiting to do his up b. Any advice on dealing with this situation?
I always wavedash back and charge needles in every matchup. It acts as a weird counter pressure creator. As far as needles beating boomerang, I don't know. But if your Link knows how to do things, he won't throw it straight at you, so you won't always be able to needle it anyway.

You can do the classic ledge drop rising b-air to hit him before he starts his up-b. If you just refresh your invincibility it doesn't matter where he is in his up-b animation.

As for tether recoveries, if they're tethered, you just hold onto the ledge and wait for them to come back and then slap him. If link is holding on, you can also fall and nair him, but that's less safe and holding onto the ledge until he jumps up is guaranteed.

Depends on the situation, but normally in circumstances like that you want to try and get towards a platform or a ledge in order to escape getting tilted over and over. If double jumping will let you do either of those things, then it's probably a good idea to do so. If you double jump only to get tilted again, it wasn't very useful and therefore not a good plan.

If any1 is ever just standing there, refresh your invincibility and then ledgehop slap them. If you time it correctly you'll still be invincible whilst slapping them, so they can't trade or hit you. If you want to relieve pressure, but not overextend, you can always just shino stall until they back off.
 
Last edited:

HRR2b23

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
134
Location
Lost in the Water Temple
3DS FC
2535-4498-3108
Does anybody have experience with the Meta Knight matchup? I've been having issues recently winning that one as Sheik. They have basically been going hyper aggressive on me and I can't do enough with needles to prevent him from getting in and starting a combo on me, and I'm also finding it extremely difficult to get back to the stage once I'm off. Shield grabs aren't really reliable on his approaches either since his dash attack can just go past me. I've had success with this MU as Marth, but I'm much stronger as Sheik overall so I want to get this one down, any help would be appreciated!
 

ThreeSided

Smash Ace
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
600
Location
USA, CT
Does anybody have experience with the Meta Knight matchup? I've been having issues recently winning that one as Sheik. They have basically been going hyper aggressive on me and I can't do enough with needles to prevent him from getting in and starting a combo on me, and I'm also finding it extremely difficult to get back to the stage once I'm off. Shield grabs aren't really reliable on his approaches either since his dash attack can just go past me. I've had success with this MU as Marth, but I'm much stronger as Sheik overall so I want to get this one down, any help would be appreciated!
I have issues with metaknight too. If I understand this correctly, he's basically a character that is so horribly derailed by crouch cancelling that the PMBR had to make him otherwise outrageous to keep him balanced.

So, yeah. There's your answer I guess.
 

Shrug

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Springfield, IL
Just a quick note on the Zelda matchup: using needles to nullify Din's Fire seems very helpful. To me, the matchup is pretty difficult, but if you can maintain a distance where Zelda is afraid to use Din's Fire but isn't close enough to hit you with Nayru's Love, fsmash, etc., then you should be able to make something work. It's not an undoable matchup, but it seems like a matchup in which you are going to get run over if you don't know what you're doing (I guess that's the case for a lot of matchups, but it's especially true here).
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
SheikxPuff is fine if you don't play Sheik like Sheik. Don't get baited into attempting shield grabs, and don't attempt approaching with them or risk getting KO'd through rest. Take Puff to a stage with plenty of platforms, and utilize good movement to block Puff out with fall-through N-airs from platforms and space with b-airs against Puff's likely aerial approaches. Kill off of the ceiling through U-air, and don't bother relying on grabs as you normally would.

It's an odd matchup to say the very least, but you have to play it in a manner you wouldn't normally do with anybody else. Puff makes you play her game as the goal, so Sheik's go-to MO through grab setups will prove to be much too risky. Just use Sheik's gigantic hitboxes on N-air/B-air to keep her out, and good movement to keep rest at bay.

Just a quick note on the Zelda matchup: using needles to nullify Din's Fire seems very helpful. To me, the matchup is pretty difficult, but if you can maintain a distance where Zelda is afraid to use Din's Fire but isn't close enough to hit you with Nayru's Love, fsmash, etc., then you should be able to make something work. It's not an undoable matchup, but it seems like a matchup in which you are going to get run over if you don't know what you're doing (I guess that's the case for a lot of matchups, but it's especially true here).
Not particularly true. 'Dealing' with Din's Fire is what a Zelda player wants you to do. Similar to the Puff matchup, and especially true of this one, Zelda wants you reacting in a certain fashion. Yes, Sheik has a low-risk way to put out Din's Fire, but if Zelda can place these in a manner such that you as a Sheik player put yourself in a position of risk to do so, then Din's Fire is very much directly working to Zelda's advantage. Sheik can be in two places at any time during any matchup; not in a position where she can grab or set up for F-air, or in grab range to set up for F-air or something other, and a Zelda player will do what they can to manipulate your movement such that you're only in a position to deal with her options if they want you to be.
 
Last edited:

shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
2,596
Location
Laval, QC
3DS FC
4742-6323-2961
Does anyone know much about the Charizard matchup? I think it might actually be in Sheik's favor. In my experience, comboing Charizard is especially easy. Does Charizard have something that balances this out?
How iz charizard in Sheik's favor? Nearly every week, I get knocked out of bracket by a Charizard player. I just can't seem to deal with his dash attack and d-throw tech chases. Moreover, once he jabs you in the air, it's just a matter of utilt/usmash, down B, nair/Side B and you're gone. If you have any tips I'd love to hear them.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
i think sheik beats or goes even with the rest of the cast. i think sheik loses to kirby pretty much outright for MU reasons. i think fox and mario probably beat her slightly but that's mostly on the merit of being better flawless characters than anything MU specific. everyone else feels pretty manageable imo
 

OrangeJuice

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 4, 2014
Messages
23
Location
Long Island
NNID
Biastoise
I've been having trouble with Ness, for whatever reason. Find it hard to approach because of projectiles and if i get close, I am in danger of getting easily sheild grabbed. I just recently started using Sheik though because I like switching characters every so often when I get bored of one, but I really want to commit to Sheik. Any tips?
 

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
Learning to powershield doesn't hurt, and you can guarantee that a Ness player is looking for a throw followup to PK Fire. Plan around that. As for the problem with getting shield grabbed, that's a global problem that's going to bite you no matter what character you're going up against. Improve your movement, play on reaction, and attack when necessary, not just to score a hit. Use needles more on approach. Your projectile isn't anything to ignore, and will open up a lot of grab opportunities and F-air setups through D-Tilt > Fair and whatnot.

Picking the right stage will also play well into your character choice. Against Ness specifically, Battlefield might be a safer choice than, say, Final Destination. Some way to avoid PK Fire will present itself with more cover. Sheik's also got the options available to deal with an off-stage Ness, just don't challenge his recovery on reaction, or you'll get blown up by it. Get out there and deal with him as soon as you can to mitigate that risk.
 

CE55N4

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Northern Virginia
Wolf, ftw. My buddy mains him and I beat him 17 times out of 20 but it's close every time. Maybe it's because he knows my play style since we play each other a lot but do you guys have any advice on making this match up not so close?
 

Captain Faceroll

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
173
Wolf, ftw. My buddy mains him and I beat him 17 times out of 20 but it's close every time. Maybe it's because he knows my play style since we play each other a lot but do you guys have any advice on making this match up not so close?
Tech chasing wolf is pretty free, so I'd suggest getting that down really well. Edgeguarding him is also pretty easy. Run off nair beats his side b, and needles beat everything. You can also just sit at the ledge and spam downsmash if they have to up b to the ledge
 

CE55N4

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
9
Location
Northern Virginia
Tech chasing wolf is pretty free, so I'd suggest getting that down really well. Edgeguarding him is also pretty easy. Run off nair beats his side b, and needles beat everything. You can also just sit at the ledge and spam downsmash if they have to up b to the ledge
Whoa thanks for the fast response! Ok cool, I will focus on implementing these strategies. Thanks man!
 
Top Bottom