Matchup help: Ness

[Trogdorbad]

Hey, so as the title says, I need help in the Ness matchup. He's kind of a general problem for me, but especially with Deeds. Any tips on how to deal with him?

 

[Ludiloco]

Really I think Ness is not a particularly difficult matchup for D3, just a difficult character to play against in general until you know fully what he does.

Any particular thing you're struggling with? A bit of insight into your problems will go a long way.

You should know that due to D3's fast falling speed you can DI down out of the downthrow fair combo at early %. After that your best bet is trying to use your jumps to float away. If you can avoid PK fire, you will be able to avoid most of Ness's combo setups and I think that's a big key to victory in the matchup. Especially because PK Fire and Thunder are Ness's only real way of removing the distance between you and him.

There are several situations where Ness does demand a lot of respect, and you need to be careful about punishing him. When Ness is on the ledge facing inward, don't go over there. Even if he has the lead, use your hammer and poke at him until he drops his guard for a big punish. You do not want to give up the back throw for the easy win, that's how to lose the Ness MU 101. Inhale is also a very handy tool in this scenario.

When Ness is recovering deep, unless your tech skills are really good it's not worth it to go out there and punish him. You will likely get smacked by PK Thunder 2, which will stage spike and kill you most of the time (which is why I said be careful unless your tech game is on point). HOWEVER, this can work to our advantage because running into something with PK Thunder 2 greatly limits the distance it travels. If you're up a stock, you can go down there and after hitting you Ness will likely just fall to his death.

For what it's worth as well, Gordo is reflected by PK Thunder 1 but technically clanks with it. If you manage to aim just right and hit the PK thunder before Ness can wrap it around, it will disappear and Ness will go into special spiral, ending his stock. Probably not the best technique but relatively safe if you're on the stage and I have cheesed out a win with it before.

 

[Trogdorbad]

Really I think Ness is not a particularly difficult matchup for D3, just a difficult character to play against in general until you know fully what he does.

Any particular thing you're struggling with? A bit of insight into your problems will go a long way.

You should know that due to D3's fast falling speed you can DI down out of the downthrow fair combo at early %. After that your best bet is trying to use your jumps to float away. If you can avoid PK fire, you will be able to avoid most of Ness's combo setups and I think that's a big key to victory in the matchup. Especially because PK Fire and Thunder are Ness's only real way of removing the distance between you and him.

There are several situations where Ness does demand a lot of respect, and you need to be careful about punishing him. When Ness is on the ledge facing inward, don't go over there. Even if he has the lead, use your hammer and poke at him until he drops his guard for a big punish. You do not want to give up the back throw for the easy win, that's how to lose the Ness MU 101. Inhale is also a very handy tool in this scenario.

When Ness is recovering deep, unless your tech skills are really good it's not worth it to go out there and punish him. You will likely get smacked by PK Thunder 2, which will stage spike and kill you most of the time (which is why I said be careful unless your tech game is on point). HOWEVER, this can work to our advantage because running into something with PK Thunder 2 greatly limits the distance it travels. If you're up a stock, you can go down there and after hitting you Ness will likely just fall to his death.

For what it's worth as well, Gordo is reflected by PK Thunder 1 but technically clanks with it. If you manage to aim just right and hit the PK thunder before Ness can wrap it around, it will disappear and Ness will go into special spiral, ending his stock. Probably not the best technique but relatively safe if you're on the stage and I have cheesed out a win with it before.

I wasn't aware of being able to fast fall out of the d-throw>fair combo, so that'll help

One of my biggest issues seems to be the ever-prevalent PK Thunder spam - at least in my area, if you're above a Ness player, they're gonna start shooting PK Thunder at you to juggle and build percent. I wasn't aware that you can shorten the distance PK Thunder 2 goes by taking the hit, so that helps. Otherwise I was mostly aware of the biggest issues and counters - thankfully, Dedede can survive the back throws even at somewhat higher percents due to his weight, but I know to avoid being grabbed by Ness at high percents.

 

[Putuk]

One interesting thing to note is that his FAir has several hitboxes, a few for 1 damage and the final one for 3. A gordo will still hit him before that one's out. I once fought a Ness who tried to make me PK Stay Away from him by jumping and FAiring, since it's quick and has decent range, limiting my approach options.

And if you're a huge badass, you could try to inhale PK Thunder when he recovers.

 

[Aki]

And if you're a huge badass, you could try to inhale PK Thunder when he recovers.

I'm so going to try that now.

Edit: nvm

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

One thing I have found that you can use against Ness is that it is difficult for him to grab the ledge when recovering. Often, he will land right on the stage, whether because his double jump which ignores the ledge, or because PKT2 is hard to aim, so charging up a jet hammer or smash attack in anticipation has gained me some early KOs, which were crucial to the match for me.

 

[drumdog]

Most of my matchups with ness have actually been plagued by his mobility compared to d3. However, if you're able to stay out of the pk fire range and you can keep it cool, the gordo spams can be pretty damn effective. Should be use as if you're yoshi, ledge stalling in melee. After they bum rush(usually with dash attack) just shield, d throw and go for a nair fair or uair. Happy Hunting

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Most of my matchups with ness have actually been plagued by his mobility compared to d3. However, if you're able to stay out of the pk fire range and you can keep it cool, the gordo spams can be pretty damn effective. Should be use as if you're yoshi, ledge stalling in melee. After they bum rush(usually with dash attack) just shield, d throw and go for a nair fair or uair. Happy Hunting

Hmm, this is an interesting strategy. I have always found that the best method to fight ness is to get up close and personal. The area just outside of his grab range is ideal, so that way he doesn't have time to use any of his specials before you hit him with something, and Dedede easily outranges his ground attacks. I haven't tried camping, so I don't know if that is effective, but I figured I might as well put my strategy here as well.

 

[shrooby]

Generally, try to avoid bumping old-ish threads. Unless an old thread becomes relevant again for some reason.
For organization's sake, please bring any further discussion of the Ness match-up here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/general-match-up-discussion-thread.388795/