Match-up Discussion 5 - Wolf

[Sky Pirate]

WOLF

Advantage/Disadvantage: -1​

Deceptive hitboxes, a Dsmash that rivals Metaknight's, and an auto-camp feature?
Some people say he can out-camp us.
How should we play against him?​

We need the following information:​

-STAGES-
"Best" starters for Oli:
"Worst" starters for Oli:
"Best" counterpicks for Oli:
"Worst" counterpicks for Oli:

Notable "move beats move" situations:

Opponent's primary tools:
How we can deal with opponent's primary tools:

Anything else:
(This section includes gimmicks, minor notes, and anything else that isn't covered)

Don't restrict conversation to just these points.
These are just guidelines to help discussion.
Discuss!​

 

[Sky Pirate]

Okay, about Wolf:

1. Can we actually regrab him after a Dthrow at 0% or can he DI out? What's the best combo for him (most damage)?

2. How does his Bair affect us? What can it beat out?

3. Where can we latch pikmin to actually rack damage?
It kind of seems that you can latch whites onto a certain part of his head and it avoids the bayonet.

4. I tried just slowly approaching with powershielding and Fsmashing against Holmes when he was spamming Blaster, but I was playing like crap that day and couldn't play effectively enough to test it. Thoughts on this approach?

5. How does Lylat affect Wolf? Where should we pick and where should we avoid?

 

[Seagull Joe]

I think this matchups even at higher levels of play. I keep trading games with Logic now (Though he usually wins game 3's).

Olimar can Dthrow 2x>Usmash>Uair (We can DI the Uair or avoid it Pikmin dependent I think). Our Dthrow wrecks Olimar, but our usual ability to tech chase with Dthrow when Olimar is still feet up isn't as good because Olimar's instinctively GRAB GRAB GRAB.

Wolf's spaced aerial's are a nightmare for Olimar because almost all are very hard to punish.

What stages is Olimar bad on exactly?

 

[Sky Pirate]

People usually say PS2, Frigate, Rainbow Cruise, and Brinstar are "bad" for Olimar, but it's actually REALLY match-up dependent.

EDIT: Also, Port Town if you have a troll for a TO or something.

 

[Dnyce]

People usually say PS2, Frigate, Rainbow Cruise, and Brinstar are "bad" for Olimar, but it's actually REALLY match-up dependent.

EDIT: Also, Port Town if you have a troll for a TO or something.

EDIT2: Also, with the exception of metaknight, any stage with a ledge to grab if you have a troll for a TO or something.

*fixed*

I'll go on ahead and say I support everything Seagull says.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

PTAD isn't that bad of a stage for Olimar and any wolf that would take Olimar there is a moron. It's definitely worse for wolf than it is for Olimar. But it's never legal so who cares, lol. Wolf should be taking Olimar to smashville. Frigate and RC aren't good picks for wolf in this matchup. Neither is PS2, imo. Uhh stick to basic stages. I don't know a whole lot about solid wolf picks, though.

 

[Seagull Joe]

PTAD isn't that bad of a stage for Olimar and any wolf that would take Olimar there is a moron. It's definitely worse for wolf than it is for Olimar. But it's never legal so who cares, lol. Wolf should be taking Olimar to smashville. Frigate and RC aren't good picks for wolf in this matchup. Neither is PS2, imo. Uhh stick to basic stages. I don't know a whole lot about solid wolf picks, though.

Wolf is very good on Port town. Wolf's Dthrow would put Olimar in the worst position possible...Offstage where he can't tether recovery .

 

[Deleted member]

I love going to Port Town with Wolf, actually. It's not bad for him at all.

How is Olimar on Norfair?

 

[Sky Pirate]

Olimar is actually really good overall on Norfair, IMO.
It's Uair heaven, he has three tether options for each side, and his pivot grab covers entire platforms.

Dunno how he does against Wolf there, though.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Olimar is bad on Norfair, lol. You should definitely take him there if you feel comfortable. I hadn't thought about it. The three tether options on each side aren't a big deal, the sections are small so the opponent is always going to be in your face, uair heaven doesn't matter because the opponent is always going to be in your face, and pivot grabs don't matter because the opponent is always going to be in your face.

And even though Olimar can't tether on the floating phase of ptad, using the road to get back on stage is easy, as long as the Olimar knows what he's doing. I didn't know wolf was good on it though. Seem to be a lot of misconceptions about both of our characters, haha.

 

[Llumys]

I know this isn't much of a contribution, but I feel like I should say something anyway. I've never played any highly skilled Wolf mains, but since the bayonet on his blaster makes it fairly easy for him to out-camp us, wouldn't we have a much better chance of succeeding if we just play aggressively? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Olimar be able to do fairly well if he keeps up aerial pressure and not allowing the Wolf to keep a safe distance spacing his bairs properly?

 

[Sky Pirate]

Would it really be wise to challenge a character like that in the air?

I wish I knew his match-up better. We have a decent Wolf in Austin, but he never goes to smashfests or anything. :<

 

[Sky Pirate]

Wolf's spaced aerial's are a nightmare for Olimar because almost all are very hard to punish.

How should we deal with them, then?
Just screw with their spacing with random hyphen Usmashes or something?

It does kind of seem that we COULD camp at long-range, but it's kind of hard because of the bayonet. The rate of fire on his blaster does seem kind of slow, though.

And which neutrals does Wolf prefer, anyway?

 

[Dnyce]

Using broken grab, Olimar can grab a perfectly spaced bair on shield. Wolf can shine if he buffers it, but I'm not sure how we get jewed by grab armor.

 

[kelumhi]

The rate and distance (while jumping) we can throw pickmin is greater then his blaster. the only thing we need to watch for is his reflector and him killing our pickmin. He doesn't have enough speed to punish a full back hop B-forward if he is shooting his blaster as long as you fast fall.

 

[Dabuz]

Dnyce, whats this thing called broken grab? (Sorry, but i haven't' kept up with metagame lately)


Secondly, the best way to play this MU is to be aggressive, wolf has a very good pressure game on the defensive olimar, but our fair actually beats a lot of wolf's moves and is safe. Purples are the only thing that stops wolf's camping so i find don't like to throw more than a pikmin at a time as a distraction. On the ground, wold has two great mixups, fsmash and grab, at fsmash range, he can grab us if we try to wait for the fsmash or he can run in and dsmash if we try to react with our smash or pivot grab. And if he fsmashes and we predicted grab, our smashes will be outprioritized except for yellow fsmash, and our grab with be broken. Wolf can't handle olimar at a spacing just outside dsmash because his attacks are too slow compared to olimar. I prefer to throw wolf up at any % greater than 40%, just because he is extremely susceptible to all of olimar's juggling tools, ESPECIALLY uptilt .


For stages, i suggest olimar tries to get BF round one, if that is striked, go to SV, and if not that, i would actually say PS1. If lylat is somehow on the list, that gets first priority. For CPs, i say lylat/ halberd, then castle siege. The choice of either lylat or halberd just depends on what stage you feel will be more effective, generally, the campier a wolf, the better lylat is.. Ban FD, stage is annoying to fight wolf on.

 

[D Who?]

This post failed. It contributed nothing but useless two cents. Sorry for wasting post

 

[Greward]

huh i dunno, i never had problems in this matchup... the best wolf player in europe is T and i didnt have a hard time against him
it's really that difficult to have it as -1?

 

[Dnyce]

Dnyce, whats this thing called broken grab? (Sorry, but i haven't' kept up with metagame lately)

Ummm... tl;dr shield grabbing, I really don't want IC/DDD mains to know so you won't see me posting about it here anytime soon

 

[RichBrown]

Dabuz is pretty much on point with what he said

I wanna add that if you dashgrab-dthrow, you can follow up with dair, then Usmash or something

Cute little mixup

Also nice for when you grab wolf at the edge at low percent

I don't really know this MU very well I think I've lost to every wolf I've ever played lol