Match-Up Discussion #31! Link

[Pierce7d]

Alright. I'm actually pleased that the Link Boards aren't going to just roll over and die after such posts, because I think Link is a relatively good character, with some blazing weaknesses, and such a horrible recovery to fall rate, it makes him garbage.

Marth advantages
Marth outranges link, and Link's Ftilt comes out too slow to deter Marth's Fair.
Link cannot reliably use grab, because missing the grab results in a Smash attack punish.
Marth completely owns link in the air, especially from the sides.
Link's projectiles are easily perfect shielded (or regularly shielded in the instance of bombs) and do not pose a significant problem.
Marth's dtilt poke is too fast for Link to deal with by anything on the ground, except a risky grab.
Marth can easily gimp Link the moment he's off the stage.

Link Advantages
Link's Zair is good to deter Marth's spacing
Link has projectiles.
Link has good kill power, and Marth is light
Link is heavy, to counteract his poor recovery, and it is tricky to knock him off the stage.
It is hard to juggling Link because his Dair is so effective.
Link's Usmash punishes Spot dodging, and when used with DACUS, can also punish RDing.

Most of this match, Link will throw projectiles at Marth, but Marth will penetrate quickly. Link will then use Hootshot. After Marth gets in that, link has problems. His jab is good, but it loses to Marth's shield, or fully spaced dtilt. Link has few answers to a closer ranged Fair. Once Marth penetrates Link's projectile and Zair range, it's hard for Link to respace, being much slower than Marth. Marth can then proceed to knock Link off the map, especially with Dancing Blade and Dolphin Slash out of shield as tools. From there, Marth can edgeguard Link to death, or for significant damage, if the Link's DI is good.

70:30 Marth

 

[Swordplay]

Most of those points are true but I'll mention a few more things before putting this to rest.

You probably don't play Link so you probably don't know how his meta game as evolved over the past few months.

There are 4 things you mentioned that I will point out and leave at that.

1.

If you shield a bomb and Link is at moderate spacing, prepare for your sheild to get shreded. (Not broken but weakned) Links have found a way after a bomb has been blocked to put tremendous pressure on marths shield by catching the bomb with an attack that auto cancels in the air and following it up with another attack. If your shield is already weak, you do not want to shield bombs because your shield will probably end up broken. Survive the mini onslaught and punish him.

2.

Your also right Links jab is good. Actually Link can and will jab cancel. It may be the only time you ever see him attempt a grab or aggressive spin attack when not OoS.

3.

Juggling Link is easier than you think. Most Links will be afraid to dair because of its huge end lag. Links will rely on throwing bombs down at the ground to make you move giving him room to land. Links Nair and bair have good priority so they may try to fast fall these moves. Link fast SUPER FAST when he fast falls so they are just trying to catch you off guard. You have the ability to punish this.

4. Most importantly......the pivot boost....

Last but not least you mentioned re spacing? We have found that Link has one of the best if not THE best Craq Walk/Pivot boost in the entire cast of brawl!!!!! If you ever come across a good Link, you will realize that he uses Pivot boosting and Craq Walk a lot and it helps his spacing greatly. You may think Link has trouble re spacing but many of the Links at the pro level have become experts with these AT's and respacing has become much easier for them.

 

[DSP]

My thoughts on the matchup (playing it regularly on a fairly decent level since Brawl has come out):

As long as Link makes good use of his grounded attacks with their large (and laggy) hitboxes, he MIGHT be able to keep Marth at bay. But one mistake, and he's all over you, dealing damage like it's no one's business (Instant 21% after two successive dtilts, up to 25%-ish with fair into Dancing Blade, and that's just the tip of the Falchion, pardon, iceberg.). Getting around those projectiles is pretty easy for Marth, and even if they hit him, it's not that bad because they rarely can be followed up with anything. Combining the projectiles with the Zair might annoy Marth, especially because Link has pretty much the only Zair in the game that can deal good damage (10%).
Ground game: 6-4 Marth.
Air game is just pure ****. Marth throws out those hitboxes like there's no tomorrow, he might even be able to hit you after you airdodged through one of his fairs by simply doing another one. All of Link's aerials are risky enough to do, except Bair, which might indeed catch the enemy off guard, but in return has no real priority over any of Marth's moves. Nair is nice to get him off you at higher %s, but is by no means as good as it was in Melee. If Marth gets you up in the air, you have to DI and airdodge perfectly to return to the ground safely.
Air game: 7-3 Marth.
This leaves us with something like 65-35 Marth, but considering Link's "recovery" (lulz) and Marth's excellent gimping, we should make it 7-3.

Might be biased / wrong. If so, I apologize.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I believe Pierce does play Link, or at least he used to.

 

[Pierce7d]

If you shield a bomb and Link is at moderate spacing, prepare for your sheild to get shreded. (Not broken but weakned) Links have found a way after a bomb has been blocked to put tremendous pressure on marths shield by catching the bomb with an attack that auto cancels in the air and following it up with another attack. If your shield is already weak, you do not want to shield bombs because your shield will probably end up broken. Survive the mini onslaught and punish him.

Let's not forget Marth has the infamous Dolphin Slash out of shield, with invincibility frames on start-up. If you catch the bomb and throw an aerial at our shield, we will cut you hard with our UpB from shield, and take no damage.

My thoughts on the matchup (playing it regularly on a fairly decent level since Brawl has come out):

As long as Link makes good use of his grounded attacks with their large (and laggy) hitboxes, he MIGHT be able to keep Marth at bay. But one mistake, and he's all over you, dealing damage like it's no one's business (Instant 21% after two successive dtilts, up to 25%-ish with fair into Dancing Blade, and that's just the tip of the Falchion, pardon, iceberg.). Getting around those projectiles is pretty easy for Marth, and even if they hit him, it's not that bad because they rarely can be followed up with anything. Combining the projectiles with the Zair might annoy Marth, especially because Link has pretty much the only Zair in the game that can deal good damage (10%).
Ground game: 6-4 Marth.
Air game is just pure ****. Marth throws out those hitboxes like there's no tomorrow, he might even be able to hit you after you airdodged through one of his fairs by simply doing another one. All of Link's aerials are risky enough to do, except Bair, which might indeed catch the enemy off guard, but in return has no real priority over any of Marth's moves. Nair is nice to get him off you at higher %s, but is by no means as good as it was in Melee. If Marth gets you up in the air, you have to DI and airdodge perfectly to return to the ground safely.
Air game: 7-3 Marth.
This leaves us with something like 65-35 Marth, but considering Link's "recovery" (lulz) and Marth's excellent gimping, we should make it 7-3.

This

You cant just call powershielding the solution for every projectile problem. The fact is, his projectiles may not be as good as some others, but they're **** annoying and can rack up damage.

You're right. Fox's lasers, PKThunder, Charged Link arrow shot (which should be jumped over) PKFreeze, PK Flash, thrown items and item based projectiles (Fire Flower, Curry, Cracker Launcher) should not be attempted to be perfect shielded.

Everything else, yeah, powershield.

 

[Swordplay]

O i know marth can dolphin slash OoS. I do it all the time. and its a viable option in that case

I thought this matchup was anywhere in between a 6-4 7-3 range......

Marth has the advantage in every situation in this matchup except spacing. Once you get past zair, marth throws out those quick moves and it is over.

K i'm done arguing this match up.....cya

 

[6Mizu]

Used correctly and link's projectils can be a REAl f-ing pain for marth.....
so thats why i think its 60:40 or in a few cases 55:45.