Marth Vs. Sheik troubles

[MrSplean]

I keep getting punished when I attack (offensively/defensively). He'll shield (as sheik) and grab me after whatever I throw, ie neutral air. I watched a video by Ken where he was showing that you could dash through a grab after the L-cancel, but it doesn't seem to work even if I do it perfectly.

I know spacing is probably the key, but if I tried any kind of dash dancing or try forcing him to approach, he just spams needles.

Any thoughts on what I can do? Thanks.

 

[Xyzz]

If they shield your attacks, throw out grabs instead.

 

[MrSplean]

Ya, I'm sure it's all in the mix-ups. It's just frustrating. Thanks.

 

[LotoSage]

My battle buddy is a Shiek main, and I play Fox, who unlike Marth, has a rather small grab range compared to Shiek. What I do is I run in as if I'm about to attack, wavedash back to bait out a reaction, and then smack him. Try that.

 

[MrSplean]

That's pretty good. How do you play each reaction (like if he keeps sheilding, or throws a grab etc.)

 

[rpotts]

I keep getting punished when I attack (offensively/defensively). He'll shield (as sheik) and grab me after whatever I throw, ie neutral air. I watched a video by Ken where he was showing that you could dash through a grab after the L-cancel, but it doesn't seem to work even if I do it perfectly.

I know spacing is probably the key, but if I tried any kind of dash dancing or try forcing him to approach, he just spams needles.

Any thoughts on what I can do? Thanks.

Sorry, but you're not doing it perfectly if it doesn't work you because it definitely works. Land a fair as close to the ground as possible, L cancel, then dash away or past them as soon as possible. Against Sheik you should probably dash in and get behind her since her grab range is long enough to catch you retreating.

Wait until Sheik approaches you and dash dance grab. It's totally fundamental to Marth's game.

If they shield your attacks, throw out grabs instead.

This. Attack - Shield - Grab = Rock - Paper - Scissors.

 

[MrSplean]

Thanks. I'll have to keep practicing. Any idea how to deal with the needle spamming? I usually hang on the edge or jump over them, but it puts me in a bad position because I'm approaching on his terms.

 

[rpotts]

Jump and waveland onto a platform. Practice moving around on platforms against computers or by yourself. You want to be able to evade the needles on reaction then quickly navigate the stage to avoid getting stuck on a platform in shield or something.

Also, they can't spam needles if you don't give them the space to do it safely.

 

[MrSplean]

I don't have any problem beating him on platform levels, it's just fd I can't beat him on. And he insists on playing that level primarily.

 

[Esther]

try and focus on getting him off the stage, while Marth has one of the best Edgeguards shiek has one of the most punishable recoveries : D

 

[MrSplean]

That's very true. I have a hard time punishing the off stage recovery. Is it best to wait and hit shiek after she lands? Any time I go for off stage or edge camping, it feels pointless because of the recovery invincibility frames she has.

 

[Esther]

Okay, so when he recovers with Up B onto stage just simply run up to him, cancel run with crouch then forward smash. If he lands on the ledge wait for him to get back up onto the stage then sit back see what type of stage recovery he is doing and just forward smash. c: it may seem kinda repetitive but Marth's air game vs sheik isn't so great due too shieks Up-B invincibility.

Also when fighting him on the stage try dash dancing often, cause Sheik's moves have a bit of lag time especially his dash attack and forward smash.

Let me know if you need anymore helpp d;