Marth Stage Selection by matchup?

[menotyou135]

So I play marth, and I understand things like "Pick FD vs spacies for chain grab" and "Avoid Dream land against floaties," but I was hoping someone could give me a better answer on some of the more intricate aspects of stage selection and why those things are the case. For example, what if I can't pick FD vs a spacie because they banned it or DSR? Are there instances where Dreamland is good (I have heard it is good against roy)? What about CPing a falco who is very lazer spam heavy vs CPing a falco who is very aggressive? What about lesser known matchups like ice climbers and pikachu? What maps should I ban vs various characters in a 2/3 set?

Currently, I simply try to go FD against spacies, who almost always ban, but I don't know whether yoshi story, BF, or FoD are better and I have heard mixed opinions like "Go yoshi to avoid laser spam" or "Avoid yoshis because they combo the **** out of you" from good players. Against all other characters I try to pick Yoshi story, which is almost always banned. When it is banned, I go for Pokemon stadium vs peach and jiggz, fountain of dreams vs Falcon, and pretty much just wing it vs all other characters.

I made a similar post for PM since the maps are different if you would like to check that one out as well here: http://smashboards.com/threads/marth-stage-selection-by-matchup.399898/

 

[Rlagkrud]

rather than looking for textbook best stages, it says a lot more if you find out the stages you like.
textbook best stages are given you play everything textbook perfectly, which is not the case.
find out your strengths and see how stages affect these strengths.
if you excel in movement, choose a wider stage like FD, PS, DL
if you excel in applying a lot of pressure in smaller areas, choose YS, BS, FoD
etc.
etc.
that's how you should choose stages, not because some guide told you so.

 

[menotyou135]

rather than looking for textbook best stages, it says a lot more if you find out the stages you like.
textbook best stages are given you play everything textbook perfectly, which is not the case.
find out your strengths and see how stages affect these strengths.
if you excel in movement, choose a wider stage like FD, PS, DL
if you excel in applying a lot of pressure in smaller areas, choose YS, BS, FoD
etc.
etc.
that's how you should choose stages, not because some guide told you so.

The thing is that I am not trying to do everything just like a guide. I just want more information so that when I do choose a stage, I have a better informed opinion of which one will play to my strengths. It isn't that I want to blindly follow what someone else says, but that I want to be able to make a decision that is based on knowledge that I do not have yet.

For example, in the PM version of this thread, someone pointed out that Fountain of Dreams is a map that is not so bad against fox because of the high ceiling. I didn't know before that the ceiling was high so this information is going to be able to help me in the future. Another example is that the same poster pointed out that WarioWare's weird platform design makes it harder to edgeguard since there are more options for them, so if I want to beat a character who I need to edgeguard a lot, I shouldn't pick that stage, which is something I had not considered.

 

[KevJames]

Marth on FD vs. Spacies
You want to go here because Marth has a much better dash-dance and wavedashing game than both spacies. FD being simply a straight horizontal stage, the spacies have no other ways of approaching you. They cannot use platforms to get above or below you. The lack of platforms also allows Marth to juggle spacies well, especially when they have no jump, since they cannot fall/tech onto a platform. Their recoveries are also very limited because if given the option vs Marth, spacies will recover high onto the top platforms.

 

[menotyou135]

Marth on FD vs. Spacies
You want to go here because Marth has a much better dash-dance and wavedashing game than both spacies. FD being simply a straight horizontal stage, the spacies have no other ways of approaching you. They cannot use platforms to get above or below you. The lack of platforms also allows Marth to juggle spacies well, especially when they have no jump, since they cannot fall/tech onto a platform. Their recoveries are also very limited because if given the option vs Marth, spacies will recover high onto the top platforms.

Yes, but spacies veto FD 95% of the time in 2/3 sets, and I can only CP here once in 3/5 because of DSR. What do I do when FD isn't an option? (which is the vast majority of the time.

 

[Sleepy Driz]

Think about why they beat you and use that as your motivation for counterpicking. If you were stuck in shield because they were all over you, pick a bigger stage like Stadium or Dreamland to slow the pace of the match down and let you abuse your movement more. If they projectile camped you, pick a smaller stage like FoD or YS.

 

[krazyzyko]

CP to FD or YS
Ban DL

Marth stage tier list:
FD
YS
PS
BF
FoD
DL

 

[Mijah]

Stage selection should be based on your personal and character strengths vs your opponents personal and character strengths. Marth specifically can abuse lower platforms by poking through with fsmash, utilt, and sh aerials. Dreamland has platform heights that cannot be tipper fmashed through. Vs faster falling characters (spacies specifically) FD allows for chaingrab setups. Thats the common consensus and everyone knows this stuff - the character strengths.
I feel you should choose stages more based on your personal strengths vs your opponents strengths/play style. If a falco is very happy to laser spam/camp you and you aren't comfortable with ducking and powershielding lasers, a stage with platforms will allow you to avoid lasers as well. Personally, i love FoD as marth because the moving platform heights allow for alot of mixups with tippered tilts, smashes, and waveland grabs, however i also take into account that falco has alot of similar strengths on FoD with his utilt and aerial mixups. it comes down to a judgement call, do I feel that I can exploit the benefits of this stage better than my opponent can?
You need to analyze each sounterpick situation without allowing earlier experiences to effect your decision.
In each game, as you are counterpicking, ask youself: Do i want more room to run around/run away? Do i want my opponent to have less room? Do i want to exploit my opponents poor recovery? Do i want to reduce the advantage they gain from their good recovery by taking them to yoshi's? Do I benefit more from platforms, or does my opponent?

 

[Plebiscuit]

I feel like this is something there should be a guide for, and if there isn't one already, somebody should get on that.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

If you want a guide, you can go through 2/3 and 3/5 sets of the best Marth mains and just observe their tendencies, not unlike what Tafokints did for M2K v. Mango with articles like these: http://meleeiton.me/2014/07/17/tafostats-how-mew2king-lost-at-stage-select/
http://www.meleeitonme.com/tafostats-a-deeper-look-at-mango-and-mew2king/

Good commentary will discuss the process behind these counterpicks as well. Sometimes it's more difficult to do this with M2K and PPMD because of them switching character,s but you'll still need to look at more than just PPU to get a good idea of your preferred choices.

For a 'textbook' guide, study the facts and type/write them down.
For good advice, read the good threads that discuss these things (including this one).
Use both methods.

 

[MistFist]

if they ban FD, pick the stage your most comfortable with. at low levels do it like that. once you get better then start thinking a bit more about where to go. hope i helped

 

[lizardwuke]

thank you, i am a marth main and needed this

 

[CanBeatAnyFaux]

Yoshi's is almost always a good pick(even vs Falco)
PS is great on Neutral Transformation, so learning hwo to play on the other ones is advised
Fountain is pretty good vs Fox and real bad vs floaties. I find it mostly preference.
Never pick Dreamland
Battlefield is alright, not as easy to tipper platforms as Yoshi's but is good if you like it.
Don't blind pick spacies to FD, if you can't chaingrab and they like lasers you're not gonna have a very fun time

 

[Ladder]

personally I don't really like yoshi's I feel my combo game stays mostly the same while my opponents combo game is better.
Also I'm not that greatest at scrambles and prefer having room to move around so I can set up for pokes and intercept approaches easier