Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[Emblem Lord]

If you find that your opponent starts to shield your jabs then just grab after the SHFFL. Remember to mix it up.

And I only really talked about shield stabbing in one part of my article.

BTW Falco is the king of shield pressure and shield stabbing. His offense allows him to take advantage of it and he has the tools to constantly pressure his opponent.

 

[knightpraetor]

ya you're right if they are shielding the jab that implies that they weren't trying for an initial shield grab..but even so, it almost feels like they are reacting to the jab (which is impossible to do in time no?)

with the amount it fails to work for me...like i feel like 2/3 jab attempts get grabbed..i must just be being too predictable...but i guess this makes me tend to roll away more..i probably play too conservatively...i'll work on it sometime..right now i can't play melee...just 64 online

no one around

 

[CIFP]

I'm having trouble wavedashing out of my shield. I almost only shield with R, so do I need to learn to wavedash with L. It seems like an extremely useful technique, especially with Marth. Please let me know if you have any tips on what to do with my fingers.
Also, I've been practicing SHing into a Fair and then wavelanding instead of the second Fair. Does anyone use this and are there any solid applications?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ok. So, Battlefield. I love battlefield, and I do extremely well on it no matter which matchup. I will always counterpick battlefield, idk why I think I just feel comfortable on it. At first I was always told "Yoshi's Story! Pick Yoshi's Story!" But I just feel constrained there, and uncomfortable.

Now, against Sheik. I always counterpick battlefield on sheik's and do much better, if not winning against most. People always tell me that battlefield is death for marth against sheik there, but I tend to do much better.

Is it just me, or is battlefield good for fighting shieks?

 

[Emblem Lord]

I do very well vs Shieks on Battlefield.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I'm glad to hear that, but do you know of any specifics that make it easier for me and you to do well vs sheiks on BF?

 

[knightpraetor]

battlefield is my favorite stage as well, i rarely counterpick yoshi's story...for me battlefield seems to have just enough space to dashdance into things while still knowing that tippers are going to kill


as for strategy there vs sheik..the matchup is mostly about getting her into the air above you...though throwing her off helps a bunch too...shrugs...i really don't have too much of a problem with her air game here..it's just you really have to watch for the grabs...meh...i don't really think vs sheik is that much different than vs other char on battlefield...though i prefer to stay grounded a lot more....pokes and dashdance grabs work well. I like to play a little more conservative most people die on this lvl due to a mistimed fair that gets shielded. personally given the choice i would hope to make sheik commit first before trying air moves..but then if sheik gets some needles that forces me to approach so then i space a few aerials to get her to react

 

[CIFP]

Ok, I just asked this and no one responded, so I'll give it one more shot.
I'm having trouble wavedashing out of my shield. I almost only shield with R, so do I need to learn to wavedash with L. It seems like an extremely useful technique, especially with Marth. Please let me know if you have any tips on what to do with my fingers.
Also, I've been practicing SHing into a Fair and then wavelanding instead of the second Fair. Does anyone use this and are there any solid applications?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

wavelanding is good for mindgames...and just practice with wavedashing out of shield.

 

[Randizzle]

I actually usually wavedash,shield, and wavedash out of shield with only l, but it's easier if you swtich between r and l. Wavelanding is really useful since you can often then space yourself for a fsmash or a grab afterwards.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Randizzle, stop following me lol.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ok, thanks guys. I have another question. Is it just me, or is Falco harder than fox to chaingrab? And if he is harder to chaingrab, what makes him harder?

 

[Dark Sonic]

I think Falco can get more DI out of the throw than fox. Have you noticed that he moves farther foward during the chaingrab than fox could. I think it might have something to do with his weight.

Speaking of chaingrabing, my friend has figured out how to shine me out of my chaingrab. Is there any way to avoid getting shined while keeping the chaingrab going? He normally gets the shine out at about 24-27% so I can't uptilt yet and I don't have time to dash dance. Any suggestions?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Falco is slightly harder to chain grab. I think it's either because he falls faster or because he is heavier then Fox.

Space animals can't shine out of CG's at low percents. You just aren't fast enough.

Practice, so you get faster.

 

[pockyD]

27-28 is about the percent they can shine out =\

 

[FrostByte]

IMO, sh fair to waveland won't do you much good. You will get shieldgrabbed before you can waveland. If you space yourself well, you will give away your free grab by wavelanding. If you hit your opponent, you could probably techchase with it, you will however give up a combo opportinity by not using another aerial

Falco is harder to chain grab due to his heavier weight. The lag time after the uthrow is greater, making it harder to catch up to him

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I wasn't refering to the wavelanded f-air actually making contact, just as a trick as you get closer.

 

[Emblem Lord]

They can't shine out if Marth is fast enough. Anyway once they get to that percent you should probably start using utilts anyway.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I just wanted to say, the Marth boards are looking pretty dang good. Compared to the amount of spam in other boards, we're good. I can always come here, come to this thread and get my questions answered pretty thoroughly. People are toning down on making new pointless threads for the most part, and I feel like I know most of the posters here are reliable and i can trust them for advice. There's not too much flaming anymore either. Not to mention the fact that we have a guide coming to us soon. I just wanted to congratulate us all on being more organized and smart about our posting. Props to EL as well for organizing stuff.

 

[Omni]

Just for future reference, Marth can chaingrab Falco and Fox 0% to death. There is no shining out of it if done perfectly.

If Fox/Falco DI's left or right, you can chase after them with a JC grab. If they don't DI at all, pivot jc grab takes care of that. If Fox DI's to the left or the right around 60-65%, you get an auto forward smash tipper but that's not a 0-death combo. At the percents where Fox/Falco can start to jump out of the chaingrab, you follow their DI with a "soft" up-air making sure you don't hit them with the tip. You can usually regrab after. Uhm, yeah... that's it.

 

[JesiahTEG]

if you pivot your grab while your chaingrabbing them, doesnt that mean you dont need to JC it? Cuz your standing anyways right?

 

[knightpraetor]

ya, the 0-death is pretty hard to do..but ya one day i was bored and just practiced it in training mode....di away at high damage requires fair follow up, i think with nontipped fairs..but i cna't remember..

anyways, more importantly, question: so i heard that marth can tip shffl fair a shield to run in grab? but i seem to have trouble doing it on marth? does it not work on marth or sheik because fo the long grab range?

edit: so that's not true it seems...no fair to grab unless the opponent is slow

or maybe just on people with smaller grab range than you so they can't shieldgrab you?

and another question...CC sheiks at low damage when you are on the ledge...can your ledgehopped dair hit them if they space well? it's common to CC to a dtilt..wondering what the best response is if you expect this..air dodge on...wavedash to shield grab if they are spaced far? and dair if they are close?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Fair to dash in grab if your opponent doesn't expect it. Mix it up with other actions after a shielded fair to keep them guessing. No tactic is infallible. That's why you have to change up your strats and your follow ups to your actions.

As for a CCing Shiek near the ledge. Well, I usually mix it up with rolling from the ledge, doing a normal get up form the ledge, ledge attack, ledge jump, etc. The basic stuff pretty much. Nothing too fancy. If she is right near the ledge I would just roll. And do a few ledge dropped edge hogs to mix it up.

 

[knightpraetor]

i thought it was meant as guaranteed..so it's just as a mind game..not a bad idea..anyways, thanks for the advice..i have another random question, but it's not marth related..fox can't upthrow to upair mario because of the sex kick..is the same true for mario and luigi? wasn't sure...maybe their stun time or fly distance makes it easier

 

[dark_dragon8]

I have a question Emblem Lord(I hope it hasn't been asked! Sorry if it has)

We all know that the up+B has different distances when you switch from up+B and up diagonally+B, but when Marth does his reverse dolphin slash, is the range different using either dolphin slash? For example, if I want to hit an opponent with the most amount of range from that dolphin slash, between up+B and up and diagonally away+B, which will give the most range (if any)?

 

[Emblem Lord]

dark dragon8: I usually don't go for hits with the up b unless it's with the sweet spot and I want to kill. But a diagonal up B has more horizontal range then the normal up B. Vertical range is the same. The amount of area his sword covers is the same, it's just his trajectory that changes allowing him to hit more horizontally.

knightpraetor: Certain characters have less stun time when they are attacked then others. That's what allows them to get out of combos sooner.

 

[dark_dragon8]

dark dragon8: I usually don't go for hits with the up b unless it's with the sweet spot and I want to kill. But a diagonal up B has more horizontal range then the normal up B. Vertical range is the same. The amount of area his sword covers is the same, it's just his trajectory that changes allowing him to hit more horizontally.

knightpraetor: Certain characters have less stun time when they are attacked then others. That's what allows them to get out of combos sooner.

Very cool. I thought of another questions now lol. With the up+B and diagonal up+B topic, what about the opponent's trajectory once hit, do the attacks send the opponent at the same angle?

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm fairly certain that a non sweetspot hit with either up b will have the same knockback. But the sweetspot hit of a diagonal up b has far more knock back then a normal up b.

 

[dark_dragon8]

Thanks a lot Emblem Lord!

 

[4BDN_Skillz]

I just want to know on how any of the smashers here kno how to take care of a fox that relys on shining to win the game. I would get some tactics to beat the fox then he would just figure it out in a match or two. Like any thing you guys do to take care of this problem if you have it.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

lol, emblem lord, your work is cut out for you.

 

[ArcNatural]

The only time a fox can really shine a Marth is if you have fallen below the stage. If your horizontally recovering from a good distance or recovering from above the stage you shouldn't really ever get shined.

If they try to shine you from the frront or slightly above you, you can usually time an over B or a fair to interrupt them. If they try to shine when your below the stage my only suggestion really is to up ASAP as it is pretty difficult to shine Marth's upB. Once he picks up on these things though, your gonna have to change it up.

If he is constantly throwing you off and shining you, you need to vary your recoveries. Don't double jump right away, fastfall then double jump to upB, upB right away, etc. Just don't make your recovery predictable.

 

[4BDN_Skillz]

Thank you Arcnatural, your advice is really worked in some ways. Iam even forcing the fox to change his ways a little.

 

[Silver Sytos]

Allright, I'm decent enough at cging. What I do is somehow get a grab, knee attack, then upthrow, and either press left/right and grab again depending how he di's. It worked well at low % and when he got to higher % I started with the utilting/fsmashing. The problem is now instead of di'ing away (which was always a bad idea) he DI's towards me. So at low % he either tries to DI to my back or just barely in front, and its a bit of a guessing game, since its so hard to tell when they DI on top of you whether they'll land in front or behind.

What are ways to help continue my cg? How do you continue cg if a fox/falco DI's towards/slightly behind you?


Also, I was thinking about trying how to pivot grab, but I have no idea how that works. Can someone explain it please?

 

[Randizzle]

At low percents, there's really no trick to it that i know of. it just takes a lot of practice (and some luck) in learning how to differentiate between grabbing in front and grabbing behind when he DIs really close to you. Towards the high chain grab percents (around 30+), you can try pivot grabbing if he continues to DI towards you. Sometimes you can also try utilts. If you hit with the tip (happens only at higher end of the cg percents) that gives you more grabs, if not, your opponent will fall and you'll get a chance to tech chase.

Pivot grabbing is basically like doing one iteration of dash dancing (the pivot) then grabbing. You're grabbing as marth is pivoting. This can help you control the spacing for grabs sometimes.

 

[Silver Sytos]

So pivot grab is different from dd grab?

I'm thinking now that DD grab is slower because you dash forward, then back, and there are a few frames after you reverse where you have to wait before you can input a grab, while a pivot grab IS the going "back" after an initial dash? So you dash one way, then return the stick to neutral, and grab? Do i have the idea down as in why the pivot grab is faster?

i'm still kinda confused on how to pivot grab though.... Can you go through the control stick motions?

I'd be incredibly helpful if someone made a video tutorial on pivots :O

 

[ppa0]

i been trying to practice with marth lil bit, and was wonderin, when you do a shffl Fair, what attack is the best to follow it out with, i guess what im trying to say what attack is the best tou use afterwards that doesnt have that much lag, so just incase you miss with the Fair and the attack you dont have that much lag so your opponent doesnt have much time to punish you for it

 

[BishopTS]

@ silver sytos http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=97822&highlight=pivot+grab

@ ppa0
If you tip the fair it sends them upwards leading to a ken combo, a spike, or another f air. If you don't tip it, it sends them flying horizontally leading to a f smash or f tilt. These are just a few options open to you. You can figure out what works best for you.

 

[ppa0]

sorry for the double post but i couldnt edit my post, i also wanted to know if i would do a shffl Fair, and i did hit, which would be the best attack to follow it up into a combo,

 

[LaserBust]

Ppa0.. If youve spaced yurself properly and shffled the fair correctly your oppenent shouldn't have many options to punish you. If yur close in due to lack of spacing then instead of Shfflin a Fair, try double fairin instead as many players tend to let go of their shield after the 1st one every once in a while. Also you can waveland a Fair so if your think your out of shieldgrab range but not out of attack range then waveland backwards. But yea, just try to space yurself properly and allways get that Lcancel in there and your should be fine agaisnt most characters.