Mario's Moveset: Breakdown & Discussion (Session 21: Super Jump Punch + Customs)

[HeroMystic]

No replies to my post, so lets move on.

Session 05: Forward Tilt

Forward Tilt Frames: f5-f6
Forward Tilt Damage: 7%

Discussion on F-Tilt can begin now.

 

[Darrman]

Ftilt. I don't use it much. It's got a bit of ending lag, and the damage is low. I guess it hits a somewhat decent way forward?

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Ftilt is amazing. Use it more.

 

[smasher1001]

It's got more range than d-tilt if I'm not mistaken, it can be tilted up mid or low, other than hitting someone on the ledge i don't see a point to angling it down (does low have a chance to trip a target maybe?) Downsides are it def has more ending lag than your other similarly quick actions(prob to account for the bit of extra range) and that as far as i'm aware i don't see it comboing into anything. Overall A spacing tool, but there's a faster option in jab if you dont need the range f-tilt has comparatively.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

You can angle the move low to shieldpoke, up to stuff a predicted jump. It doesn't combo into anything, but it combos out of certain spacing tools such as bair. It's useful for stuffing attempted punishes in a way that jab can't compare.

 

[BSP]

I know in Brawl the Ftilt's knockback numbers depended on how you angled the move, albeit very slightly. I wonder if it's the same in Smash 4.

I use the move as jab+. If you need the range and can afford a bit more cooldown, go for it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

F-tilt is one of Mario's most consistent OOS options for things that aren't in shieldgrab range and most reliable combo enders after B-air. Sometimes you have to utilize your ground options to be efficient, and F-tilt is generally numerically reliable terms of range and speed. Don't use it at really low percents when it's unsafe on hit, but other than that a F-tilt on the ground here and there sometimes might be what you need to gain control.

 

[HeroMystic]

(does low have a chance to trip a target maybe?)

I know in Brawl the Ftilt's knockback numbers depended on how you angled the move, albeit very slightly. I wonder if it's the same in Smash 4.

There's no additional modifiers to F-tilt no matter what the angle.

F-tilt (high)
Frame  5- 6:     7%         8b/100g (KO@ 263%) 361°
Max Damage:     7%

F-tilt (normal)
Frame  5- 6:     7%         8b/100g (KO@ 263%) 361°
Max Damage:     7%

F-tilt (low)
Frame  5- 6:     7%         8b/100g (KO@ 263%) 361°
Max Damage:     7%

F-tilt is one of those moves I need to add to my game more. On it's own, it's pretty forgettable. It does less damage than a jab combo and the recovery is undesirable. However, it's strengths cannot be ignored. It's our best spacing tool on the ground, our highest damaging tilt, and sometimes you can get away with landing two F-tilts if your opponent is out of his jab range.

While it's a move that is somewhat just there on it's own, in combination with the rest of Mario's moveset it's pretty valuable. You'd rather jab, or N-air, or grab when facing forward, but when those options aren't optimal, F-tilt is there to back you up and it'll often lead into those more rewarding options. It's there to let your opponent know you won't allow them to dance around grab/jab range.

Hoping this gets a damage buff.

 

[smasher1001]

Now that you guys mention it, i do use f-tilt out of landing aerials when other options just wont reach sometimes,or as you said to let them know you wont let them move around grab/jab range.

 

[HeroMystic]

Session 06: Down Smash

Down Smash(Front) Frames: f5-f6
Down Smash(Front) Damage: 10%

Down Smash(Back) Frames: f14
Down Smash(Back) Damage: 12%

Discussion on D-Smash can begin now.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Okay for covering reckless inward rolls given the back hit is a fairly strong kill move. Can be used to hit characters off the ledge. Otherwise there are very few situations where D-smash is better than most of Mario's moveset. Unless you're trying to get a KO however, you are typically better off going for tilts or grabs when going for punishes, especially since D-smash is pretty unsafe on block in this game.

 

[smasher1001]

Pretty much agree with A2ZOMG on this. It's occasionally a useful KO move near ledges or for covering rolls towards you, and you can combo into it from dairs pretty often(this is a reasonable but situational kill combo) but unless going for the kill you could just combo into a grab or tilt instead for better reward. And while it's an exceedingly fast smash for the startup, it lasts quite awhile leaving you open if you don't hit. So generally save it for knocking people off the ledge since the angle it sends them at can be useful in that way, or for kos near the ledge at higher percents sums it up.

 

[Darrman]

The down smash. I almost never use the attack. It's punishable with bad ending lag, and does pitiful damage for the danger. 10 damage?! And that's for a SMASH. The knockback isn't spectacular, even with the semi-spike angle, so it's poor at killing. It does come out quickly, frame 5 is very fast for a smash. Although I don't do so myself, @ A2ZOMG , has a point with roll-punishing due to quick startup and ok knockback. Back hit is difficult to land due to Mario needing to get his feet behind him. That's my view.

 

[mario123007]

Okay for covering reckless inward rolls given the back hit is a fairly strong kill move. Can be used to hit characters off the ledge. Otherwise there are very few situations where D-smash is better than most of Mario's moveset. Unless you're trying to get a KO however, you are typically better off going for tilts or grabs when going for punishes, especially since D-smash is pretty unsafe on block in this game.

Back in Brawl, it was a very reliable punishing move, but it was weakened in Smash4, it still can dealt some damage, for the ones who isn't good at grabbing, this could be a move for you. But of course we don't recommend you abusing this move.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

I personally like his other smash attacks more. This move has decent power when Mario has his legs on the latter half, but the startup KO power is not impressive at all. To be honest, it's pretty sad to see this move's KO power nerfed. In Brawl this move was my go-to for KOing an opponent. Now it pales to the U-Smash and F-Smash KO power. It has decent range, but it's slow and I normally can't use it because of its below average speed. I rarely get a KO from this move. If anything I use it as an OOS option.

 

[mario123007]

I personally like his other smash attacks more. This move has decent power when Mario has his legs on the latter half, but the startup KO power is not impressive at all. To be honest, it's pretty sad to see this move's KO power nerfed. In Brawl this move was my go-to for KOing an opponent. Now it pales to the U-Smash and F-Smash KO power. It has decent range, but it's slow and I normally can't use it because of its below average speed. I rarely get a KO from this move. If anything I use it as an OOS option.

I used to love that move in Brawl when I was a C stick maniac, but at the 3DS, I feel this move somehow has less range, knockbacks, but this move can still punished your opponent from behind though.

 

[A2ZOMG]

To some extent I sorta like that Dsmash got nerfed just so that people would abuse it less. It realistically wasn't a good move even back in Brawl outside of Mario having rewarding combos into it.

Though it is rather annoying how pointless the move is.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Back in Brawl, it was a very reliable punishing move, but it was weakened in Smash4, it still can dealt some damage, for the ones who isn't good at grabbing, this could be a move for you. But of course we don't recommend you abusing this move.

I cry a little everytime I think about how great this move was in Brawl. It did 15% in Brawl. Uncharged. Now it does 14% FULLY charged. Sakuraaaaiiiii...
My mournings aside, I mainly use it to punish rolls and landings. It's probably Mario's best punish tool except for maybe back air. Jab, Jab, down smash is a combo I like to do sometimes.

 

[mario123007]

I cry a little everytime I think about how great this move was in Brawl. It did 15% in Brawl. Uncharged. Now it does 14% FULLY charged. Sakuraaaaiiiii...
My mournings aside, I mainly use it to punish rolls and landings. It's probably Mario's best punish tool except for maybe back air. Jab, Jab, down smash is a combo I like to do sometimes.

I often do Up Smash these days, only some minor chance that I will use down Smash.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I often do Up Smash these days, only some minor chance that I will use down Smash.

Up smash is easily his best smash attack and one of his best in general, but that's for later.

 

[HeroMystic]

Up smash is easily his best smash attack and one of his best in general, but that's for later.

Actually!

Session 07: Up Smash

Up Smash Frames: f9-f12
Up Smash Damage: 14%

Discussion on U-Smash can begin now.

 

[Kisatamura]

Since the hitbox on USmash starts from behind Mario, it starts up almost as fast as DSmash if it hits from behind Mario. Otherwise, the intangibility on Mario's head makes this a good move for anti-air purposes. It's horizontal range is pretty iffy though if it hits in front of Mario.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Huh. Well ****. I sure hope somebody picks up that phone.
My clairvoyance aside, I, as I've said, find up smash to be one of Mario's better moves, and without a doubt his most reliable KO move. Whereas landing a forward smash will probably require a good read, up smash is significantly faster and honestly, not that much weaker. As @ Kisatamura has already said, Mario's head is invincible, which makes it great for stopping aerial approaches. Probably going to get a lot of your KOs from this move. Be warned though, the hitbox is pretty bad.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The 1 frame hitbox duration nerf to Usmash means it can't hit directly in front of Mario that well anymore. Just a side note.

Still Mario's best Smash in terms of safety and options covered. People have to space fairly carefully whenever your back is turned given the decent range and speed. Usmash oos should be abused for that reason. Also does 14 damage, which is pretty big in this game.

If you're feeling confident, this can be used to punish ledge stands as well. Important to remember given most people will eventually choose to grab the ledge instead of land next to Mario.

 

[Darrman]

Easiest kill move. Fsmash can be blocked, Fair is situational, and people won't let you grab by the time Bthrow kills. I know Mario's head is invincible, but I've never noticed it kick in. The damage is respectable, and fairly quick. Has roles in low percent chains as well, finishing the Utilt spam sometimes. The up smash is one of Mario's best moves. Use it!

 

[meleebrawler]

Easiest kill move. Fsmash can be blocked, Fair is situational, and people won't let you grab by the time Bthrow kills. I know Mario's head is invincible, but I've never noticed it kick in. The damage is respectable, and fairly quick. Has roles in low percent chains as well, finishing the Utilt spam sometimes. The up smash is one of Mario's best moves. Use it!

If you never trade hits with any jump-ins aside from very disjointed ones, you know the invincibility is doing it's job.

Edit: It's just the mere fact that it's the intangibilty type of invincibility that makes it hard to notice, compared
to someone like Mr. Game & Watch, where attacks CAN contact but do nothing. Attacks just flat out can't
touch Mario's head when he's using Usmash.

 

[TriTails]

Hoping this gets a damage buff.

Oh no. Luigi's F-tilt does 8%, and there is some sort of hidden rule in both bros, for moves that Luigi cloned from Mario, Mario can never get a damage output bigger than Luigi. It must at least be the same or below .

Kidding. Hoping that (And Luigi's) get some damage buffs too, but it's rather unlikely.

Anyway, U-smash, as others have said, is your best anti-air tool. It does 14% (Somewhat big compared to D-smash, don't you think?) and sends enemies perfectly up, meaning DI will has less chance on saving their butt. It also hits on F9 from behind, and F12 in the front, so it's fairly quick. Though, the range is rather small, so you don't want to clash with swords or something here.

Best killing tool Mario has overall, and is also a good punishing tool and OoS option. Though, as usual, don't spam it. You'll just get your butt kicked, and be way more unpredictable (No arguments on how good it is though).

 

[BSP]

If you never trade hits with any jump-ins aside from very disjointed ones, you know the invincibility is doing it's job.

Edit: It's just the mere fact that it's the intangibilty type of invincibility that makes it hard to notice, compared
to someone like Mr. Game & Watch, where attacks CAN contact but do nothing. Attacks just flat out can't
touch Mario's head when he's using Usmash.

Piggybacking off of this, I don't think there's any Dair that Mario can't beat with Usmash with proper timing. G&W's key might trade, but he's still getting hit.

Agree with what everyone else has said. I also want to point out that on the receiving end of Mario's Usmash, it's quite annoying if you're trying to land with a character without any quick burst mobility options like Monkey Flip or something. Stale moves aren't as bad in this game as they were in brawl, so consider using Usmash to keep slamming people into the air.

 

[Xeze]

Piggybacking off of this, I don't think there's any Dair that Mario can't beat with Usmash with proper timing. G&W's key might trade, but he's still getting hit.

Agree with what everyone else has said. I also want to point out that on the receiving end of Mario's Usmash, it's quite annoying if you're trying to land with a character without any quick burst mobility options like Monkey Flip or something. Stale moves aren't as bad in this game as they were in brawl, so consider using Usmash to keep slamming people into the air.

Link and Toon Link's Dair trade as well, at least I remember Link doing so.

 

[HeroMystic]

Due to the incoming patch, we'll be staying on U-Smash until we can verify Mario's changes.

 

[HeroMystic]

Session 08: Forward Smash

Forward Smash Frames: f15 - f17

Forward Smash (Sweetspot) Damage: 17.85% (High), 17% (Normal), 17.51% (Low)
Forward Smash (Sourspot) Damage: 14.7% (High), 14% (Normal), 14.42% (Low)

Discussion on F-Smash can begin now.

 

[A2ZOMG]

In this game, you really shouldn't think of F-smash as a ranged punish most of the time given it honestly doesn't have that great range with the removal of reverse step mechanics. It's better to think of it as a move that you bait people with in close to mid range when you expect them to commit to a move. That being said, does great damage and kills quite early, so for those hard read situations, it's pretty rewarding. Also use this move whenever you block things like Pikachu D-smash, ledge attacks, sometimes against people who try Jab cancel pressure.

You can angle the move, which you can use the downwards version to punish people on the ledge, and both angled versions kill very slightly earlier.

 

[HeroMystic]

It should be noted that F-Smash hits the entire cast hanging on the ledge. It's your optimal punish after a trump.

 

[Darrman]

The forward smash, Mario's strongest move at 17% damage sweet. The range is decent for Mario's standards, and can kill quite early. Sub-100s are possible on lightweights near the ledge. The main drawback is the startup. Frame 15 equates to a quarter-second, so quick players can block it. But if someone does a long, punishable move like an air dodge (22 frame landing lag IIRC), then Fsmash them away! High risk, high reward.

 

[Odeclas]

It should be noted that F-Smash hits the entire cast hanging on the ledge. It's your optimal punish after a trump.

question about this one, do you have to angle it down?

 

[mario123007]

question about this one, do you have to angle it down?

When you perform Forward Smash by and, right when you release, quickly tilt theto(Depending which side you face at), Forward Smash withcan't change the angle...I think. Got ahead and try it out

I dare say Forward is one of the moves that Mario buffed the most, back in Brawl this was a move that nailed Mario down. However, I feel that his range is somehow a bit small. I have a hard time to punish opponents with this move...

 

[HeroMystic]

question about this one, do you have to angle it down?

Yes, you have to angle it down for it to hit people on the ledge.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Bait their grab > Fsmash is Mario's oldest trick and still works on high level players to this day.

 

[mario123007]

Yes, you have to angle it down for it to hit people on the ledge.

But when they are on ledge, they are invincible at the first moment, what is the best time to punish? I always miss...

 

[HeroMystic]

But when they are on ledge, they are invincible at the first moment, what is the best time to punish? I always miss...

1. They are vulnerable for the 1st frame of grabbing the ledge.
2. Regrabbing the ledge without landing on the stage (or hitting your opponent) leaves you completely vulnerable.
3. Some characters have extremely poor ledgesnapping mechanics and F-Smash will hit them before they can (ROB, Falcon, Mac, or anyone with their Up-B reversed).