Mario's Moveset: Breakdown & Discussion (Session 21: Super Jump Punch + Customs)

[mario123007]

1. They are vulnerable for the 1st frame of grabbing the ledge.
2. Regrabbing the ledge without landing on the stage (or hitting your opponent) leaves you completely vulnerable.
3. Some characters have extremely poor ledgesnapping mechanics and F-Smash will hit them before they can (ROB, Falcon, Mac, or anyone with their Up-B reversed).

okay... they often gets back to stage right after they get to the ledge, so I need to see if they regrab the ledge or not.

 

[HeroMystic]

If you ledge trump them, that greatly increases the chance of them regrabbing the ledge if they fear a Ledge-drop > B-air from you.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Don't throw this one out too casually because of how slow it is. Mainly reserved for reads or punishes. I like to down throw, bait an air dodge, then forward smash them if they do. Other than that, meh.

 

[mario123007]

If you ledge trump them, that greatly increases the chance of them regrabbing the ledge if they fear a Ledge-drop > B-air from you.

Ledge trump? You mean when they grab the ledge you go and steal the ledge, and they will regrab the ledge? Quite a hard tech for me to do but I'll try it out.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Ledge trump? You mean when they grab the ledge you go and steal the ledge, and they will regrab the ledge? Quite a hard tech for me to do but I'll try it out.

Just simply grab the ledge while they're already on it. They'll be booted off and prime for back airing.

 

[mario123007]

Just simply grab the ledge while they're already on it. They'll be booted off and prime for back airing.

You do the stage knockback KO... I can't remember what is that called... when you hit your opponent to the side of yhe FD stages and they will bounce away and KOed... what that called? Edge guard?

 

[MarioMeteor]

You do the stage knockback KO... I can't remember what is that called... when you hit your opponent to the side of yhe FD stages and they will bounce away and KOed... what that called?

Stage spiking, although that's not what I was referring to.

 

[mario123007]

Stage spiking, although that's not what I was referring to.

Nah, stage spiking needs a great timing and technique. So what were you refering?

 

[BSP]

Remember that Fsmash's flame is transcendent. With good timing, you can beat a lot of attacks with it, despite its low range. As XeroXen said, do not sleep on the move's leanback. It in combination with the transcendent Flame = punishing people for throwing out attacks that aren't disjointed. IE you're expecting a jab war -> Fsmash is great for tagging people's hands or outstretched limbs.

 

[mario123007]

Remember that Fsmash's flame is transcendent. With good timing, you can beat a lot of attacks with it, despite its low range. As XeroXen said, do not sleep on the move's leanback. It in combination with the transcendent Flame = punishing people for throwing out attacks that aren't disjointed. IE you're expecting a jab war -> Fsmash is great for tagging people's hands or outstretched limbs.

That's right, timing is always the key.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Nah, stage spiking needs a great timing and technique. So what were you refering?

Going off of what Mystic was telling you about: Ledge trump back air. When you take the ledge from somebody, which causes them to bounce behind you, and you back air them. Fatal to characters with bad horizontal recovery.

 

[mario123007]

Going off of what Mystic was telling you about: Ledge trump back air. When you take the ledge from somebody, which causes them to bounce behind you, and you back air them. Fatal to characters with bad horizontal recovery.

Oh, I tried it a lot. But to some characters have great recovery, they always come back...
Sometimes stage spikes are even more fatal, but requires a good tech and timing.

 

[HeroMystic]

Session 09: Grab & Pummel

Grab Frames: f6-f7
Dash Grab Frames: f7-f8
Pivot Grab Frames: f9-f10

Pummel Frames: f16
Pummel Damage: 3.25%

Discussion on Grab & Pummel can begin now.

 

[Kisatamura]

Mario's pummel isn't anything special (Other than it's relatively slow speed), but it's good for what it's worth: either making other moves fresh or adding on damage.

Mario's grab animation isn't uber fast like his jab, but it's quick regardless. It's ending lag isn't too bad but it still can be punished if you miss.

His grab range is short for Mario, but the pivot grab range is much better. It may be worth it to use pivot grabs up close if your opponent keeps on staying out of Mario's immediate range.

 

[MarioMeteor]

He has a 3% pummel, and that's always nice. Not particularly fast, so don't spam it. Mario's grab range is rather pitiable, but as Kisatamura said, his pivot grab range is much better. His dash grab is actually useable now, so yay.

 

[mario123007]

Grab is pretty standard. Pummel, not bad. Can throws be discussed right now?

 

[HeroMystic]

Session 10: Down Throw

Down Throw Damage: 5%
Down Throw Knockback Angle: 68°

Discussion on D-Throw can begin now.

 

[Xeze]

Down throw is Mario's main tool for initiating combos (just like for a lot of the cast), due to its low knockback. You can follow up with u-tilt, u-air (higher percentages), short hop d-air or up-B. With the exception of up-B, you can usually follow up with more options after the first one.
It also sets up for one of my favorite killing options: d-throw->u-air->f-air (props to HeroMystic for that thread).

 

[mario123007]

Session 10: Down Throw

Down Throw Damage: 5%
Down Throw Knockback Angle: 68°

Discussion on D-Throw can begin now.

That quick...?
Down throw is always a good move to start up the up tilt combo. Or do a Up B combo.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I like using down throw to goad the opponent into thinking I'm going to combo them so that they air dodge, and punish them with a smash attack or an actual down throw combo.

 

[mario123007]

I like using down throw to goad the opponent into thinking I'm going to combo them so that they air dodge, and punish them with a smash attack or an actual down throw combo.

If my opponent are at high percentage, I might just do a Up Smash. Near edge, back throw them.

 

[HeroMystic]

It should be noted that D-throw below 10% is usually a bad option due to lack of hitstun. Most characters can powershield or n-air you.

If you d-throw below 10%, your best option is Up-b, jab, or shield.

If you have over 100% rage, the knockback is strong enough where it becomes a safe option.

 

[ccthirteen]

Hi there. Mostly new to Mario, here (at least in Smash 4). Tested him yesterday against my friends Mewtwo. I had some issues making down throw work well for me especially at low percents. Hindsight 20/20, is it more advisable to use dthrow at mid to high percents and stick with something like uthrow at low percents to set up a combo?

Mid percent I didn't have much trouble chaining attacks after dthrow.

 

[meleebrawler]

Hi there. Mostly new to Mario, here (at least in Smash 4). Tested him yesterday against my friends Mewtwo. I had some issues making down throw work well for me especially at low percents. Hindsight 20/20, is it more advisable to use dthrow at mid to high percents and stick with something like uthrow at low percents to set up a combo?

Mid percent I didn't have much trouble chaining attacks after dthrow.

Mewtwo is really light so you're not going to get many Utilts off of Dthrow.

 

[mario123007]

It should be noted that D-throw below 10% is usually a bad option due to lack of hitstun. Most characters can powershield or n-air you.

If you d-throw below 10%, your best option is Up-b, jab, or shield.

If you have over 100% rage, the knockback is strong enough where it becomes a safe option.

I often D throw them whenever I can, above 50% the knockback will make the gap too big for me to to do an up tilt combo, sometimes I will get countered, n-aired.
Actually, above 100%, my punish option is D smash when my opponent is behind me, or Up Smash when opponent is about to land. Or just simply back throw them.

 

[HeroMystic]

This is to answer @ ccthirteen but must be stated to everyone.

D-throw > U-tilt is a BnB combo for beginners but honestly it's pretty overrated. Best used against fast fallers, but as your skill gets better, you'll often bypass the D-throw > U-tilt threshold with other combos and gaining reward with good reads.

D-throw is much more valuable at mid percents than low percents. Use D-throw > U-tilt when it's optimal but it's a bad habit to rely on it. You definitely want to convert it into a better string (such as U-air juggles) instead of letting it end with more U-tilts. It's honestly a pretty weak combo and doesn't offer much stage control.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Especially since it only does 11%, so it's really not all that worth it.

 

[HeroMystic]

It's best to look at D-throw > U-tilt as a set-up, rather than a combo in of itself.

 

[mario123007]

It's best to look at D-throw > U-tilt as a set-up, rather than a combo in of itself.

set-up? What does set-up mean?

 

[HeroMystic]

Set-up means setting up a situation where you have positional advantage over your opponent.

D-throw > U-tilt puts your opponent above you and gives him limited options. He can try to aerial, jump away, air dodge, or do nothing. This is a set up where your opponent is forced to react in order to get out of a bad situation, and if you cover his option with your own (if he jumps away, Mario's U-air covers that option), that gives you even more reward through that set-up.

 

[mario123007]

Set-up means setting up a situation where you have positional advantage over your opponent.

D-throw > U-tilt puts your opponent above you and gives him limited options. He can try to aerial, jump away, air dodge, or do nothing. This is a set up where your opponent is forced to react in order to get out of a bad situation, and if you cover his option with your own (if he jumps away, Mario's U-air covers that option), that gives you even more reward through that set-up.

Thanks for the explain! I will try it out!

 

[Darrman]

Combo-combo-com-bo, combo combo com-bo.... The down throw is Mario's best combo move. The Dthrow-Utilt is BnB for him, as I'm sure we all know. Then it can follow up to Uairs, Nairs and Up Bs... The main problem is it's nearly useless at 0. Not enough hitstun.

 

[Kisatamura]

Dthrow to dtilt is another stylish string option.

 

[HeroMystic]

Session 11: Up Throw

Up Throw Damage: 7%
Up Throw Knockback Angle: 90°

Discussion on U-Throw can begin now.

 

[mario123007]

Gosh, Up throw, never used that except in Sudden Deaths. How can that move utlized as a combo start up?

 

[meleebrawler]

Gosh, Up throw, never used that except in Sudden Deaths. How can that move utlized as a combo start up?

When Dthrow or Fthrow don't work, and you're not close enough to the edge to use Bthrow. Generally a last
resort throw to start potential juggles when nothing else works, like many other Uthrows.

...Could it be better for combos at low percents against light characters?

 

[Xeze]

At 0% up throw is the best option against many characters, specially against fast fallers, to follow up with aerials.

 

[HeroMystic]

U-throw D-air F-air is the sexiest combo in the game and everyone will treat you like the best Mario in the world.

 

[smasher1001]

U-throw D-air F-air is the sexiest combo in the game and everyone will treat you like the best Mario in the world.

It's true, people see this and they're like OHHHHHHHHH!!!

On a side note, if you're vsing a mac and grab him in the middle of the stage, the fact that he doesn't like to be in the air is a good choice if you can't throw him off the stage or combo him :D

 

[A2ZOMG]

U-throw on fastfallers at 0 is optimal either for U-smash/D-air followup. Also the best throw against Shield Shulk.