Mario's Got New Moves?

[TomH]

Here is my problem with adding the F.L.U.D.D. move. I think that doing anything that dates their games is a bad idea. I thought the idea of having Sheik/zelda together was stupid because obviously multiple LoZs would come out after smash came out, none of which would include a storyline where zelda turned into sheik. Mario has been in over 60 games, and in ONE of them he had the FLUDD device. The thing is, mario galaxy will be coming out in a month and every one of us will be thinking "why the hell is mario carrying around a reverso vacuum that shoots out water instead of air?" by the time that smash comes out. Fortunately we dont quite have that short term of memory, but it is still stupid to date mario to a specific one of his games, that was not even one of his more popular games. I mean, at least Ocarina of Time was generally considered to be the best zelda (other than maybe the new one).

The thing that is the worst about all this is that unlike the sheik/zelda thing, which is not that big of a deal because they can just get rid of sheik, with mario they will have to completely change his moveset again in the next smash. Its a guaruntee that the game after brawl will not include this move. I mean, im all for changes in game mechanics, but i think that at least the non broken veteran smashers should have their special moves left alone (i mean, go ahead and change how they work, just make them the same actual move). And if they arent left alone, you'd think that at least with Mario, they could come up with something that wouldnt date him...

A lot of people are expecting certain things to stay the same. Mario fanatics are hoping for the same mario that they had in melee and in the original smash. Tweak the moves and how they throw people, give him new enemies, and leave his special moves alone.

 

[maxpower1227]

Actually, all of his other B moves have been confirmed on the Dojo through screen shots and video. Check SamuraiPanda's thread to see.

Seconding this. I just saw the cape in the NW Trailer

 

[PIT_IS_BACK]

He could just randomly pull it out like the Wario Chopper.

 

[Metal B]

"why the hell is mario carrying around a reverso vacuum that shoots out water instead of air?"

"Who the hell is this Pit?" "Who the hell are the Ice Climbers?" "Who the hell is Dr. Wright?" "Who the hell is zhis Devil" etc.
SSB is not only about now games. Also there are the Trophies, who explain the Charakters , Moves, Items and Stages.

 

[maxpower1227]

Here is my problem with adding the F.L.U.D.D. move. I think that doing anything that dates their games is a bad idea. I thought the idea of having Sheik/zelda together was stupid because obviously multiple LoZs would come out after smash came out, none of which would include a storyline where zelda turned into sheik. Mario has been in over 60 games, and in ONE of them he had the FLUDD device. The thing is, mario galaxy will be coming out in a month and every one of us will be thinking "why the hell is mario carrying around a reverso vacuum that shoots out water instead of air?" by the time that smash comes out. Fortunately we dont quite have that short term of memory, but it is still stupid to date mario to a specific one of his games, that was not even one of his more popular games. I mean, at least Ocarina of Time was generally considered to be the best zelda (other than maybe the new one).

The thing that is the worst about all this is that unlike the sheik/zelda thing, which is not that big of a deal because they can just get rid of sheik, with mario they will have to completely change his moveset again in the next smash. Its a guaruntee that the game after brawl will not include this move. I mean, im all for changes in game mechanics, but i think that at least the non broken veteran smashers should have their special moves left alone (i mean, go ahead and change how they work, just make them the same actual move). And if they arent left alone, you'd think that at least with Mario, they could come up with something that wouldnt date him...

A lot of people are expecting certain things to stay the same. Mario fanatics are hoping for the same mario that they had in melee and in the original smash. Tweak the moves and how they throw people, give him new enemies, and leave his special moves alone.

How many games had Diddy using peanut popguns or rocket packs? In how many games did the Princess pull turnips from the ground or use a frying pan? Yoshi has only had angel wings once, and not since 1991. Mario has only used a cape in one (non-Smash) game that I know of... again, back in 1991. I could probably go on.

 

[bluethree]

dair always hits people below you. The tornado can't be a dair.

uair is always able to hit above. Ditto.

Unless there's a new move (air smashes?) or it's his bair, the only logical thing I can think of is that it's his down b in the air.

 

[Mr fN LeON]

I think dis flood attack is gonna be so cheesy nd easy to use which is good since I like to use mario

 

[Justin Wiles]

Maybe it's his neutral A... like, if you tap A once, it's his Sex Kick, and if you hold/rapidly tap A, it turns into the tornado?

 

[JLoc]

i dont know if this been said already but I'm sure its his ariel down -B move. a special to a standard move don't make sense to me. Maybe certain(or all) character(s) will have a extra move while in the air, but still having the 4 set. that seem to make the most sense.

 

[maxpower1227]

Some, maybe. DEFINITELY not all characters.

Though I do wonder about Kirby having a different down-B on the ground now.

 

[Bowserlick]

Maybe the down B functions completely different on land and airborne with some characters. Sakurai posted on the special move update that some moves would behave differently on the ground and in the air.

"To enjoy more of the depth of special moves, try holding the button down longer to charge up attacks, rapidly pressing the button repeatedly, or tilting the Control Stick while doing the moves. You might also want to try them in midair.

Surprisingly, there’s a variety of hidden uses for many of them. "

This opens up a way to add more specials to the game. Perhaps now DK's down B finlly does something in the air.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

I think it's awesome. I really enjoyed Mario Sunshine, a worthy follow-up to Mario 64. Even before that, Delfino Plaza looks to be one of the best stages in the game to boot.

It's funny actually, people have suggested FLUDD stuff for Brawl, some even going as far as an entirely seperate Mario dedicated to FLUDD stuff. Not many people took it seriously though, and here we go getting punched right in the face like the RED the Trainer situation....I don't know how much more my face can handle...

 

[Masque]

Say so long to Mario's 3rd recovery boost, and say hello to one of the most imbalanced edge-guarding techniques this series has ever seen!

EDIT:
I forgot to mention that this gives HUGE room for a Poltergusted Luigi. Also, it breaks the boundaries on who can and can't be changed. I assume we all thought that only clones would be altered right? Well, I guess we're wrong. (At least I was, anyway.)
And I really don't mind the change because I could never recover at all using the Mario Tornado.

I dunno about "imbalanced" just yet. Remember: the move does NO damage whatsoever, and we do not yet know how far the F.L.U.D.D. can propel someone at any given strength. Also, the move could just as easily misfire on occasion in the form of Rocket/Jet F.L.U.D.D., sending MARIO flying instead. I will reserve judgment until we see it in action.

My thoughts exactly about Luigi, though! And this update certainly opens up the possibility for a whole slew of changes to different movesets. Something to consider about Fox: in his SM update, Sakurai says that his Reflector "perfectly reflects projectile weapons", but makes no mention of its damaging capabilities. Has Sakurai implemented the ultimate nerf--NO DAMAGE SHINE?! :bigthumbu

interchangeable B Moves!!!

ZOMG I wish! I remember discussing such a prospect a while back: swappable movesets, akin to the Pokémon series. Sure, it could lead to some disputes among Smashers, but it would certainly add to the variety.

 

[Leobenmc]

OOO Just thought of some ideas guys. Hear me out.
*clears throat*

We now know that from this Update that there is a difference between Pressing A, and Holding A.

What if the Mario Tornado is what happens when you Hold A in the Air?
What if this "Standard Combo" idea extends to air combat as well? I don't know...

Or

We now know that from this Update, gliding can be activated by rapidly change direction on the control stick to get into a glide...what if you're not a gliding character. Then can it do a new aerial? Like spinning the Wiimote in Super Mario Galaxy performs a spin attack, will doing a quick left-right activate Mario's spin attack?


And I think the FLUDD acts like Wario's Chopper.

 

[Bowserlick]

Different effects for some B moves depending if a character is landborne or airborne makes perfect sense.

First this opens up the ability for some characters to have more than four B moves. Fans have been clamoring for diagnal B moves, but this makes more sense. A diagnal B move is too similar to a side B move. Maybe DK will do something int he air when you press Down B.

Second, this limits some moves to the ground or air, which could be a way to balance things out. It seems that Mario's Fludd has the potential to be cheap. Sure it has only knockback, but does that mean it could push like Fox's reflector making recovery moves useless.

By only being able to use this while grounded and in a set position, it could only be used for two things. Edge guarding and defense (because he can sheild while using it). It would become an offensive move if he could jump and spray. He could short hop and hose his oppenent right of the edge (potentially).

Third, the Mario Tornado is mostly an aerial move. It has limited use on the ground. So one move is strictly used in the air and one on the ground.

 

[JPW]

Cool thing to see Mario using Fludd, but it looks like he's going to lose a special move, so he can get the uppercut. Cause we've seen him use the uppercut in the trailer. So maybe it's some combo deal or the fireballs have finally been ditched and Mario is a fighter now.

Now I wonder what are the chances of Luigi using his Vacuum. I could be right.
Vacuum Sucker for Luigi's final Smash.

Looks like anyone canc be changed and Sakurai and his team are doing their best to make them different from their original melee movesets.

After all we don't want all our veterans to be exactly the same as their melee counterparts. We might as well just be playing Melee instead of Brawl.

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

Cool thing to see Mario using Fludd, but it looks like he's going to lose a special move, so he can get the uppercut. Cause we've seen him use the uppercut in the trailer. So maybe it's some combo deal or the fireballs have finally been ditched and Mario is a fighter now.

Now I wonder what are the chances of Luigi using his Vacuum. I could be right.
Vacuum Sucker for Luigi's final Smash.

Looks like anyone canc be changed and Sakurai and his team are doing their best to make them different from their original melee movesets.

After all we don't want all our veterans to be exactly the same as their melee counterparts. We might as well just be playing Melee instead of Brawl.

I dont think he loses it...u just have to perform it differently...

 

[cccck]

this has most likely been said but... it could be like Samus's missiles

"Tilt the Control Stick down and press the B Button to charge up..."

so if you "smash" it, Mario Tornado?

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

this has most likely been said but... it could be like Samus's missiles

"Tilt the Control Stick down and press the B Button to charge up..."

so if you "smash" it, Mario Tornado?

since when do u tilt down to use Samus' missles? :X

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

since when do u tilt down to use Samus' missles? :X

wait...forget what I said XDDDD

 

[cccck]

since when do u tilt down to use Samus' missles? :X

... i tjust like Samus' missiles other then samus is a side move, and this is a down one, happy now?

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

... i tjust like Samus' missiles other then samus is a side move, and this is a down one, happy now?

yeah I figured out what u meant like 30 seconds after LOL srry (^^)v

 

[cccck]

yeah I figured out what u meant like 30 seconds after LOL srry (^^)v

.. ok then.. oh well no harm down.. i thought you mind that it was a down move and not a side move...

 

[Eight Sage]

I doubt it, we've already seen his old Neutral Air attack, though doesn't mena things couldn't have been moved around again.

I think if anything it could be his new Up-Air.

But wasn't his up-B this:

I'm with those who say that it's his aerial down-B

Also, I'm glad that old characters get new moves! and up-B's are different on air! Awesome

Link could charge his spin attack on the ground, and don't in the air. Just like Mario's F.L.U.D.D

 

[Zauron]

TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR:

We have confirmed the following moves already in trailers and updates, so we know the Tornado can not have taken these away:

Up+B
Fireball
Cape
Down Smash
Air-Nuetral-A
Air-Up-A
Air-Forward-A

We know the Fludd is now Down+B.

The only logical conclusion is that either the Tornado is also Down+B but in the air (unlikely, given that in the past even B moves that are different on the ground or in the air are still very, very similar) or its the only mid-air A move we had not seen up to this point - his Air-Down-A (likely, since Sakurai even hints at this heavily and we've only ever seen the Tornado in the air at this point).

As to the question of different suits for Mario - also unlikely, given Sakurai's early comments about how hard it is to balance different characters. This would mean Fludd Mario is just a clone with a different move, like Doc, and Sakurai is aware that no one wants this.

How does he pull the Fludd out temporarily just for his Down B? Hello? Any of you PLAYED this game? Peach's Toad and Umbrella? Link's Bow, boomerang, and bombs? Kirby's Hammer and Sword? There's tons of examples already of characters suddenly having an item that came out of nowhere, its not weird.

I'm 95% certain that Fludd works in the air as well like any other Down+B, and the Tornado is now his air-down-A attack, while the rest of his moves have already been shown to be intact the way they were before (except his Up+B seems to have better range now). Only question remaining in my mind is if Fludd will somehow help with recovery when used in the air like the Tornado could.

 

[kirbykid]

TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR:

We have confirmed the following moves already in trailers and updates, so we know the Tornado can not have taken these away:

Up+B
Fireball
Cape
Down Smash
Air-Nuetral-A
Air-Up-A
Air-Forward-A

We know the Fludd is now Down+B.

The only logical conclusion is that either the Tornado is also Down+B but in the air (unlikely, given that in the past even B moves that are different on the ground or in the air are still very, very similar) or its the only mid-air A move we had not seen up to this point - his Air-Down-A (likely, since Sakurai even hints at this heavily and we've only ever seen the Tornado in the air at this point).

As to the question of different suits for Mario - also unlikely, given Sakurai's early comments about how hard it is to balance different characters. This would mean Fludd Mario is just a clone with a different move, like Doc, and Sakurai is aware that no one wants this.

How does he pull the Fludd out temporarily just for his Down B? Hello? Any of you PLAYED this game? Peach's Toad and Umbrella? Link's Bow, boomerang, and bombs? Kirby's Hammer and Sword? There's tons of examples already of characters suddenly having an item that came out of nowhere, its not weird.

I'm 95% certain that Fludd works in the air as well like any other Down+B, and the Tornado is now his air-down-A attack, while the rest of his moves have already been shown to be intact the way they were before (except his Up+B seems to have better range now). Only question remaining in my mind is if Fludd will somehow help with recovery when used in the air like the Tornado could.

Right off the bat you assume too much.

Logically, Brawl is breaking the rules and making new ones.

And if you've noticed, Sakurai is trying to make Brawl more VISUAL. This means things won't pop out from nowhere (or disappear into nothing) if it can be helped. Have you noticed fox's blaster and reflector are on his costume now. Have you noticed Links shied is present when he's in the air now.

There are a lot of possibilities. Don't close off just yet.

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

Right off the bat you assume too much.

Logically, Brawl is breaking the rules and making new ones.

And if you've noticed, Sakurai is trying to make Brawl more VISUAL. This means things won't pop out from nowhere (or disappear into nothing) if it can be helped. Have you noticed fox's blaster and reflector are on his costume now. Have you noticed Links shied is present when he's in the air now.

There are a lot of possibilities. Don't close off just yet.

hmm? what do u mean that links sheild is present when he's in the air?

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

speakking of which...isnt it kind of sad for link that he can only jump anytime in smash...but never in his own games unless he goes off a cliff? LOL

 

[Leobenmc]

Dair for Mario Tornado does make sense, since the Tornado really is an improved version of the previous Dair Drill Kick.

 

[the grim lizard]

I like this update because it's really our first demonstration that the characters really will be different. At first I didn't believe Sakurai when he kept saying it over and over...The characters seemed to retain most of their Melee moves, but this...It shows that he's telling the truth. What's to come is even more exciting, now.

 

[Rx-]

FLUDD = Super Gimp, better than Fox's shine. You get hit with it while your coming back, you're done for. Mario should have good lag after using this move to at least make it more risky.

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

Dair for Mario Tornado does make sense, since the Tornado really is an improved version of the previous Dair Drill Kick.

tru.......

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

FLUDD = Super Gimp, better than Fox's shine. You get hit with it while your coming back, you're done for. Mario should have good lag after using this move to at least make it more risky.

Fox Shine???

 

[Vividice]

TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR:
How does he pull the Fludd out temporarily just for his Down B? Hello? Any of you PLAYED this game? Peach's Toad and Umbrella? Link's Bow, boomerang, and bombs? Kirby's Hammer and Sword? There's tons of examples already of characters suddenly having an item that came out of nowhere, its not weird.

Mario wears the FLUDD on his back. It is attached to a belt on Marios waist as you can clearly see on the first screenshot of the dojo update.

And yes this is really strange compared to pulling out a bow, umbrella or hammer:

1. Some things are pulled out/used in the way you could probably use them in RL (e.g. wearing a bow on the back, carrying an umbrella)
2. Some are pulled out more like in a comic --> Kirbys Hammer and these vanish directly after performing the move.

And pulling out a device which is allmost as large as Mario from nowhere equiping it with a belt and start pumping .... hm this seems way more weird. Yes even in an Mario/Nintendo Game.




An btw you shouldnt think of FLUDD Mario like a second character, it would be more like exactly the same character just with an equiped item or without it and thus resulting in modified abilities like Samus-->Zamus.

Based on the assumption there would be Mario with FLUDD and a Mario without one you could probably
a) Change this in the Game like pulling it out permantly (by button combination) or just droping it like Samus drops her Suit to become Zamus
or
b) Make a little choice in the character selection screen if you want it added or not.


This possibly could affect/concern other characters as well like Links arrows etc.

 

[Darkfur]

I think the fact that Sakurai is willing to give old characters new moves effects my opinions as such:

1. It is my opinion that Luigi may have his Poltergust now.

2. It is my opinion that the possibility of Gannondorf having a new move set just skyrocketed.

3. It is my opinion that it wouldn't be unlikely to change a certain princesses down B... Though it's still possible they will make a separate character slot for the Sheika.

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

Mario wears the FLUDD on his back. It is attached to a belt on Marios waist as you can clearly see on the first screenshot of the dojo update.

And yes this is really strange compared to pulling out a bow, umbrella or hammer:

1. Some things are pulled out/used in the way you could probably use them in RL (e.g. wearing a bow on the back, carrying an umbrella)
2. Some are pulled out more like in a comic --> Kirbys Hammer and these vanish directly after performing the move.

And pulling out a device which is allmost as large as Mario from nowhere equiping it with a belt and start pumping .... hm this seems way more weird. Yes even in an Mario/Nintendo Game.




An btw you shouldnt think of FLUDD Mario like a second character, it would be more like exactly the same character just with an equiped item or without it and thus resulting in modified abilities like Samus-->Zamus.

Based on the assumption there would be Mario with FLUDD and a Mario without one you could probably
a) Change this in the Game like pulling it out permantly (by button combination) or just droping it like Samus drops her Suit to become Zamus
or
b) Make a little choice in the character selection screen if you want it added or not.


This could affect/concern other characters as well like Links arrows etc.

there's only one thing thats even weirder than pulling the F.L.U.D.D. out of nowhere

 

[MetaKnight'sSword]

I think the fact that Sakurai is willing to give old characters new moves effects my opinions as such:

1. It is my opinion that Luigi may have his Poltergust now.

2. It is my opinion that the possibility of Gannondorf having a new move set just skyrocketed.

3. It is my opinion that it wouldn't be unlikely to change a certain princesses down B... Though it's still possible they will make a separate character slot for the Sheika.

tru...but if that the case for ur third opinion they'd probably put in Impa from OoT with the same moveset as Sheik

 

[Fanewgie]

I call it now: Luigi's down special will get a Poltergust face-lift (pulling as opposed to Mario's pushing) and it will link seemlessly into his exploding uppercut, coming to be known as the Luigi Death Combo.

 

[Froilen]

Great, now the DK b+down move could be a hard clap with an expansive wave, or sonic boom, maybe a spike.

 

[drewdizzal]

Maybe the down B functions completely different on land and airborne with some characters. Sakurai posted on the special move update that some moves would behave differently on the ground and in the air.

"To enjoy more of the depth of special moves, try holding the button down longer to charge up attacks, rapidly pressing the button repeatedly, or tilting the Control Stick while doing the moves. You might also want to try them in midair.

Surprisingly, there’s a variety of hidden uses for many of them. "

This opens up a way to add more specials to the game. Perhaps now DK's down B finlly does something in the air.

yes what i have been saying all along thank you bowserlick.

Different effects for some B moves depending if a character is landborne or airborne makes perfect sense.

First this opens up the ability for some characters to have more than four B moves. Fans have been clamoring for diagnal B moves, but this makes more sense. A diagnal B move is too similar to a side B move. Maybe DK will do something int he air when you press Down B.

Second, this limits some moves to the ground or air, which could be a way to balance things out. It seems that Mario's Fludd has the potential to be cheap. Sure it has only knockback, but does that mean it could push like Fox's reflector making recovery moves useless.

By only being able to use this while grounded and in a set position, it could only be used for two things. Edge guarding and defense (because he can sheild while using it). It would become an offensive move if he could jump and spray. He could short hop and hose his oppenent right of the edge (potentially).

Third, the Mario Tornado is mostly an aerial move. It has limited use on the ground. So one move is strictly used in the air and one on the ground.

the fludd would be **** cheap in the air. the only logical way to implement the tornado is to make it the down b in the air since thats the only way everyone uses it, for recovery.