Mario Kart gets ranking system that brawl should of had?

[EpitomeX]

Hey guys

http://au.wii.ign.com/articles/849/849925p1.html

Fifth paragraph

"As part of the new network mode, Nintendo will be making use of the Wii's Channel interface in yet another unique way. We're not sure of the specifics, but it seems that you'll be able to install a Mario Kart Channel to your Wii hub to view world rankings as well as your own records." (if you don't wish to read the whole thing, here it is)

Now IGN isn't sure of 'specifics' on this issue, but if it were true could we possibly pass judgement on Nintendo as having lost the plot?

Why on earth would they omit some sort of ranking system from brawl and then go on and put it in a game like Mario Kart Wii which (as proclaimed by Reggie Fils-Aime) allows first time players to beat experienced players.

Thoughts?

 

[WolfCypher]

I'm not trolling, but I gotta ask...Brawl without online ranking: does it matter?!

 

[NoNessNoProblem]

i might get Mario Kart now

 

[pirkid]

I wa sgetting MK anyways.

But that is strange. Maybe they don't have enough time? Or their jsut plain lazy, now that's it done to go back to it?

 

[blayde_axel]

Or maybe... they just didn't want a ranking system... anonymity = Brawl.

 

[EpitomeX]

I'm not trolling, but I gotta ask...Brawl without online ranking: does it matter?!

I was implying that it would have been more appropriate to have an online ranking system with brawl, as it has a larger competetive following than mario kart.

Can you deny this?

 

[blayde_axel]

Ok, so this is coming from the Iwata Asks interviews. Sakurai didn't want a ranking system to alienate "noobs" from playing online. It would intimidate them from ever going online because they'd see... well, for this example, "Gimpyfish," or a lot of other pros always at the top, and they'd never want to play because they'd never win against them.

Thus only a certain niche of players ever on Wi-Fi. Check it out yourself.

 

[Zek]

I don't agree with Sakurai's reasoning at all, but I am glad that there isn't a ranking system. People take random online games way too seriously when they know their rank is on the line. It brings out the worst in people.

 

[WolfCypher]

Of course not. I believe Mario Kart DS had something similar to an ranking system. It wasn't a leaderboard, but it did supposedly try to match people in one ranking with others in the same ranking and it never worked the way it was supposed to.

Well, if I had to guess why Brawl doesn't have a ranking system/leaderboard and Mario Kart will, it would be...Sakurai said he wanted to make Brawl as casual as it was competitive, and that a ranking system would turn-off newcomers and casual gamers. Obviously the people making Mario Kart Wii are the exact opposite, give gamers a ranking system to make it as competitve as possible, knowing everyone's going to play regardless if you're an on-again off-again gamer or a heated gamer. So, two different games with two different 'directors' that have two different ways of looking at online play.

 

[EpitomeX]

Ok, so this is coming from the Iwata Asks interviews. Sakurai didn't want a ranking system to alienate "noobs" from playing online. It would intimidate them from ever going online because they'd see... well, for this example, "Gimpyfish," or a lot of other pros always at the top, and they'd never want to play because they'd never win against them.

Thus only a certain niche of players ever on Wi-Fi. Check it out yourself.

So why don't they go play someone around their own level?

And if it's the ranking that intimidates the noobs, I don't see how putting a ranking system in mario kart is any different, there will still be a top 100, therefore there will still be 'high' ranked players to be intimidated by, regardless if it required any skill to attain the rank.

I don't really think there is much evidence to suggest that ranking systems discourage noobs from playing. Noobs are around in all online games, ranked and unranked. Besides there is always 'unranked servers' where they could go to learn the ropes and build up confidence to engage in ranked play.

Is there actually any substantial argument against the inclusion of a ranking system in brawl?

 

[blayde_axel]

http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/ssbb/vol3_page1.jsp

Found the article.

By the way, if Sakurai was developing Mario Kart, I'm sure there wouldn't be a ranking system, but he's not. There are different minds making Mario Kart with different opinions. And if what Reggie says is true, then newer players and rub elbows with the hardcore, so it wouldn't make much of a difference in this game.

And I would copy and paste exactly what he said, but for some reason, Smashboards isn't letting me...

 

[Yukichu]

It's Nintendo. We should be happy we have online at all.

 

[WALUWEEDGI420]

they could just as easily start a brawl channel and have online tournaments and stuff.

 

[Tugboat]

Hopefully there will at least be an "invisible" ranking system, matching you up with players with around your rank, otherwise noobs/really young kids will end up getting destroyed half the time and not have fun.

 

[PanzerOceania]

I was implying that it would have been more appropriate to have an online ranking system with brawl, as it has a larger competetive following than mario kart.

Can you deny this?

i think these people would have something to say to you.

http://www.mariokart64.com/

honestly have you been under a rock? there has been a SMK competitive scene since before there was even a smash bros game.

http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/ssbb/vol3_page1.jsp

Found the article.

By the way, if Sakurai was developing Mario Kart, I'm sure there wouldn't be a ranking system, but he's not. There are different minds making Mario Kart with different opinions. And if what Reggie says is true, then newer players and rub elbows with the hardcore, so it wouldn't make much of a difference in this game.

And I would copy and paste exactly what he said, but for some reason, Smashboards isn't letting me...

don't listen to reggie, it's all propaganda and hype, they are just trying to suck new people in by saying "look, it's a steering wheel" it's still just mario kart, Reggie talks out his ***, we should know this by now "brawl for christmas" FAIL.

Nintendo of America has no say in anything.

 

[Baka_Shade]

I don't agree with Sakurai's reasoning at all, but I am glad that there isn't a ranking system. People take random online games way too seriously when they know their rank is on the line. It brings out the whiny racist 3-year-old in people.

Spoiler

Quotes don't count as characters?

 

[Proven]

Really, the main focus for rankings in Mario Kart would come from time trial modes. Think about that.

 

[Digital Angel]

I wa sgetting MK anyways.

But that is strange. Maybe they don't have enough time? Or their jsut plain lazy, now that's it done to go back to it?

How ironic coming from someone who can't take one second to correct a blatant typo.

 

[d-Rishain-g]

oops. double post

 

[d-Rishain-g]

online Ranking systems are bad for tournys. I command saurkari for keeping the localized play strong.

 

[S2]

The problem with Nintendo's rankings/records thus far is how they handle disconnects.

When someone disconnects in a Nintendo made Wifi game, the winner doesn't get a win. The loser gets a loss, but oftentimes that's not very helpful.

The mindset of someone who D/Cs because he is going to lose is usually this, they are robbing someone else of a win (ie being a poor sport).

Try playing MK:DS or ZeldaH online, half your games will end up with D/Cers. They are willing to eat the loss, to keep you from getting a win.

Some players aren't malicious, but simply quit online games when it hits the point where they can't win.

Anyone who plays, say Warcraft 3 or Starcraft will tell you that most games end before you've destroyed the entire opposing army. People leave when the game is basically over.
Nintendo needs to fix this issue by making sure the winning player gets a win even if everyone else leaves.

 

[Cubemario]

I don't care about rankings, but I will say that they matter more in brawl then mario kart. In mario kart luck always comes out on top.

I'm buying mario kart anyway, mario kart is fun, and it's the only game my dad will play with me anyway.

 

[boxelder]

All ranking does is encourage padding glitching, and all sorts of lame *** behavior. And then it rewards it.

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

And not to mention on how this ranking system isnt gonna determind whos "really" who anyhow.Iam gald the system isnt in Brawl.The dudes that work hard,snake the hell outta tracks by memory,learn every shortcut and such are gonna be out-shadowed by people who are gonna have mulitple Wii's to gain unfair advantages from those people anyhow.So,wtf? Unless your in a personal online server that tracks your wins/loss ratio vs buddies or whatever,Mario Kart Wii is gonna be like Brawl in the end of the day.Rank anit gonna mean #@!$.Those that played other online games with ranking systems should know better than that. :embarrass

 

[Cubemario]

Though looking more in depth to this ranking system. It's going to ruin the online. People will be disconnecting left and right. The online is going to be just like mario kart DS.

*facepalm*

 

[Thinkaman]

Smash is too sensitive to lag for online rankings to have any real validity at all...

 

[Cubemario]

Rankings don't have any validity at all anyway. Well not any nintendo would put out. All it'll do is encourage people to disconnect.

 

[DRaGZ]

Maybe this will allow for Brawl to download a rankings channel?

I reeeeeeally hoped for a ladder system in Brawl, but I'm okay with it either. But it would be so much sweeter with a ladder system.

 

[staindgrey]

The problem with Nintendo's rankings/records thus far is how they handle disconnects.

When someone disconnects in a Nintendo made Wifi game, the winner doesn't get a win. The loser gets a loss, but oftentimes that's not very helpful.

The mindset of someone who D/Cs because he is going to lose is usually this, they are robbing someone else of a win (ie being a poor sport).

Try playing MK:DS or ZeldaH online, half your games will end up with D/Cers. They are willing to eat the loss, to keep you from getting a win.

Some players aren't malicious, but simply quit online games when it hits the point where they can't win.

Anyone who plays, say Warcraft 3 or Starcraft will tell you that most games end before you've destroyed the entire opposing army. People leave when the game is basically over.
Nintendo needs to fix this issue by making sure the winning player gets a win even if everyone else leaves.

Mhmm. Perfect example was in Madden '08:

My REAL record, as I kept track: 32-4

My Nintendo WiFi record somehow: 8-13

Somehow, someway, when I would be leading before the second half started and my opponent disconnected, I would get a loss. I don't know how. But it killed me because it seemed that because of my lame record, I kept getting put against lower quality opponents, and soon enough the online function wasn't fun for me at all. None of my friends owned Madden on Wii- they all had 360- and only 8 out of 32 people I played- an even 1/4- were man enough to take the loss. One game I even came back from 35-10 at half, went into overtime at 38-38 and broke away on a counter run for the touchdown, only to have the game freeze at the 10yd line and that oh-too-familiar screen come up saying I've lost connection with my opponent. I could've D/Ced when I was down at half, but I kept going. Then he couldn't man up and eat his loss. THAT'S why I hate online.

Anyways, off of the football rant... I like the fact that there's no ranking system in Brawl. Even though I'd like to see how I fare in the smashing world, due to the apparent lag problems, I'm probably only going to play wifi in the central to southwest Ohio region anyway, and I'll probably know my opponents. So, I don't need a ranking to tell me how good I am- my common opponents will remind me every time we play.

 

[EpitomeX]

i think these people would have something to say to you.

http://www.mariokart64.com/

honestly have you been under a rock? there has been a SMK competitive scene since before there was even a smash bros game.

No, I haven't been living under a rock though perhaps there is a very large one in front of your monitor, because you failed to see that I was commenting on the size of the community not its existence or age.

 

[SirroMinus1]

why do you care all it means is that who ever is number 1 plays the most. its better to get your name up in tournaments anyway

 

[EpitomeX]

why do you care all it means is that who ever is number 1 plays the most.

Not if they use the Elo rating system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

I agree that there is advantage to getting a name for yourself by winning tournaments, but lets forget personal glory for a minute and look at the bigger picture. A well working ladder system would promote Smash Brothers as a game with the capacity to be very competetive, thus officials over at the WCG or other big time tournaments might take interest and offer smash players opportunities to win large cash prizes at big time tournaments.

Not to mention the convenience of an online ranking system. Say you are a talented smash player but live in an area where there are no tournaments/ you are unable to get to tournaments that are worth your time. By having an online ranking system you create an accessible AND competetive element in the game, providing those hitherto inconvenienced players with the opportunities that everyone else has.

 

[Rhubarbo]

To people that say rankings don't matter: It gives you some inscentive to actually play longer! When there are rankings you try harder after each match and strive to win. If you're worried about d/c-ing, the penalty for d/c-ing would be an automaic 5 losses on your record.

Now, Nintendo might have done a wise decision not to include rankings because they are turning ALL (every single one of them) their games into n00b friendly games. Do not deny this. Go play Super Mario Galaxy. Brawl its self is an example of this because recovery is made as easy as viewing the You Must Recover Update...press ^B.

If I'm a novice, I'll probably rank low and get turned off. Rnaking were ommited for the n00b. You may defend the decision of Nintendo excluding rankings, but I bet if I go back to August and ask you the exact same question, you'd tell me something else. You can't be in denial my friends!

 

[Deleted member]

I don't care if SSBB have Rankings or not.
what counts is the lagfree online mode.Tourneys and Rankings can be made by this forum.

 

[Rhubarbo]

I don't care if SSBB have Rankings or not.
what counts is the lagfree online mode.Tourneys and Rankings can be made by this forum.

Do you know how difficult that would be. That's a logistical nightmare! Lobbies would have also been appreciated!

 

[Deleted member]

Do you know how difficult that would be. That's a logistical nightmare! Lobbies would have also been appreciated!

Sites like this exists already.So forget pls the forum method xP

 

[Flame 326]

personally i dont care if there is a ranking system or not even tho it wood be cool..though i cant wait for the ranks of mario kart XD but i guess ranks wood have been cool if they set it up so good players only face other good players like in .....halo XD. ssbb ftw

 

[GaryCXJk]

To people that say rankings don't matter: It gives you some inscentive to actually play longer! When there are rankings you try harder after each match and strive to win. If you're worried about d/c-ing, the penalty for d/c-ing would be an automaic 5 losses on your record.

Rankings just made me stop playing online games.

First of all, rankings mean "doing all to keep yourself on top", meaning, cheating. It really doesn't help if you're a casual player. There is always 50% chance that you'll be pitting against either a cheater or a competative player who studied the advanced techniques.

Also, how advanced a system is, it will never be able to distinguish between a deliberate and an accidental disconnect. So either that player will not get a penalty when that player should, or that player does get a penalty when that player shouldn't.

To add to that, it wouldn't work with Sakurai's disconnection solution, where the disconnected player gets replaced by a computer-controlled character.

So seriously, online ranking is hell for online gaming.

 

[bayonettrials]

Maybe this is the secret technology people are talking about...

Wasnt developed for brawl, but will be used in brawl.

Ring any bells?

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

they should have just had the option/submenu of ranked or unranked matches within the 'Play Anyone' mode. That woud have given the 'noobs' what exactly what Sakuria intened and the ranked would have given those who wanted to take it a step further the option to (names, records, 'rivals'). This is what I don't understand, other games have done this for years so it should have been easy to implement...