Official Mario Enigma Machine [1.1.1] Patch Notes

[thehard]

Uh can someone explain the changes to airdodges? I think I understand that back rolls have one less i-frame but the value that got changed for airdodges I've never seen before?

Ex:

 

[DanGR]

Before we all start playing toon link can someone test to make sure the shieldstun changes apply to projectiles?

 

[Valamway]

Doesn't work vs. projectiles. Also risky because Bowser isn't Sheik and has actual endlag. Grapplers need strong shields.

Attacking does work against most projectiles.
Powershielding takes care of transcendent ones.
Your opponent will be stuck in shield longer while you are in endlag.

This is a big change, but I don't think we're suddenly going to be Rat dittos in 64.
Bad shields means a lot of things, but shields aren't bad.
Just worse, and different.

 

[Conda]

It's VERY clear that they changed their initial design philosophy of "Make shields strong, but make shield breakers strong to counter them" because - surprise surprise - not everyone has a shield breaker. So they weakened the most potent shield breaking moves slightly to account for the shifted-balance in the shield system.

 

[Scootch]

Are these all of the changes? Or are these just the ones we know about right now?

Does anyone know if these are all of the changes?

 

[FullMoon]

So...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Is this a thing now?

 

[Ghostbone]

You and the Brawl Minus guy are pointing at 64 shieldstun as if this engine change puts the game anywhere near that level.

So what's your logic for more shieldstun leading to a more aggressive game? Probably a comparison to melee or something.

More shieldstun leads to spacing options being safer, projectiles being safer, etc. When dash > shield is one of the best approach options in the game (especially for characters with bad neutral), and you nerf that option, the game becomes LESS aggressive, not more aggressive.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You and the Brawl Minus guy are pointing at 64 shieldstun as if this engine change puts the game anywhere near that level.

It doesn't.
This game had more powerful shields than any other Smash, and this change makes them less safe, not unsafe.

The answer to addressing shields was SHIELD DAMAGE.

To make the meta more aggressive, you want ATTACKING to be better.

Nerfing shields makes running away and camping to force bad approaches better when shielding is now terrible for dealing with zoning.

Shield is not 100% a defensive tool. It's also a very crucial fundamental offensive tool in neutral.

 

[Nights Owl]

So...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Is this a thing now?

Yep.

 

[NickRiddle]

Uh can someone explain the changes to airdodges? I think I understand that back rolls have one less i-frame but the value that got changed for airdodges I've never seen before?

Ex:

Is that... less invulnerability on... whatever those things are?
Escapeb would be... back rolls? Escape air is obviously air-dodge.

 

[Zi^]

Nintendo, why you do this to Marth
D:

 

[thehard]

Is that... less invulnerability on... whatever those things are?
Escapeb would be... back rolls? Escape air is obviously air-dodge.

Right but I'm just wondering what value got changed for airdodge. What do 17 and 16 correspond to?

 

[LancerStaff]

So...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Is this a thing now?

I don't think that's a thing but we'll be getting stuff like this from the looks of it.

...Well, I won't complain if Pit's Fsmash "combos" on shield now, lolol.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Yep.

Rosalina had to edge cancel her Rapid Jab for that to work, so it's not something she can pull off at any moment.

 

[Valamway]

I never claimed the game would become instantly hardcore aggressive.
In fact, I don't recall stating that it would become any more aggressive at all...

I just don't think it'll become notably campier; characters that could and did camp still will and the ones that didn't won't now either.

Shields were too safe in this game, IMO, with perfect shields being incredible.
Perfect shields are now even better when compared to regular shields, rewarding precision.
I think this is nice.

 

[The Green Lanyard]

I don't follow Brawl minus, but I don't see how making every attack safer on shield would lead to a campier meta. Increased shieldstun should lead to shields shutting down less approaches, allowing players to directly challenge shields more easily. I like Smash 4 but my main issue has been that shield is too safe, so yes to me this is the best thing they could've done.

Here's how it might affect me as a Villager lover.

If I want to go in and up-close as Villager, I need to be practically touching the opponent in order for a ground move to hit them. This isn't always the case for characters with longer ranged melee attacks.

This is why shielding and spotdodging are good tools for playing up close. If I can read an attack and shield it while practically touching them, I can punish. From even a slightly greater distance, I can't reach them, and I'm too slow to run in and punish.

If shielding is more punishable, that means playing up close is more riskier for me than the longer-ranged melee opponent, so I have more incentive to stay back and throw out fairs/bairs/rockets instead. I don't particularly want to do that.

Now if my jab on shield linked long enough on shield to do significant shield damage, that could be an incentive to play up-close. If my ftilt or dtilt had significant shield damage to balance it out, that could be an incentive. If powershielding was slightly easier to pull off, that could be an incentive as well. But I don't know that balances like that came with the patch.

I'm not saying you have to agree. I don't even know that this applies to anyone other than Villager. But I'm just putting this out there as a starting point for thinking about what other side effects this could have.

 

[Nights Owl]

Rosalina had to edge cancel her Rapid Jab for that to work, so it's not something she can pull off at any moment.

This is true. It's kinda scary how different this makes the game though. While Rosa has to set it up, Lucario just has to B-reverse Aura Sphere and your shield goes to poop. I'm a bit confused why they don't give Aura Sphere the same pushback as Rabid Jabs. >_>

 

[MagiMagi]

I according to training mode, Mewtwo's side B can now combo. It said side B>ftilt is a combo.

 

[OidBirdie]

People really need to learn to powershield now it seems. I think that's exciting! Horrible for online play i can imagine though

 

[Snipnigth]

Can someone explain to me what does:
Screw Attack (Up Special)Looping hitboxes 2-4

• Angle altered 100 → 96
• Weight knockback altered 150/120 → 178/140

means for samus Screw Attack?

I according to training mode, Mewtwo's side B can now combo. It said side B>ftilt is a combo.

it has always counted as a combo in training, but the ppl can still act out of it, its not a true combo, training just registers it as such (training lies sometimes).

 

[redcometchar]

So what's your logic for more shieldstun leading to a more aggressive game? Probably a comparison to melee or something.

More shieldstun leads to spacing options being safer, projectiles being safer, etc. When dash > shield is one of the best approach options in the game (especially for characters with bad neutral), and you nerf that option, the game becomes LESS aggressive, not more aggressive.

This is a good point, however, bear in mind shield was also one of the things holding short hop aerial approaches at bay, and was generally a good defensive choice.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Since shield stun has been amped, is 's Spindash, Spincharge (3 hits), and Fair (6 hits) busted on shield now?

Did just become top 3 again...I can settle with this.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What I want to know is if the increased shieldstun also equals increased shield pushback.

 

[Ghostbone]

Villager

Villager is probably an ultra winner of this patch lol, slingshot just got a WHOLE lot safer on shields, same with side-b

 

[Darklink401]

I'm just laughin it up.
I wanted a change this big to happen, and it did xD

Fun times.

 

[Techei]

Greninja has 2 0.66x frame speed multipliers added to subactions that previous had no code. (So not attacks or such) It's currently impossible for me to tell what these might be, other than that they must be something obscure. No other changes.

Edit: Ike has multiple changes. Coming back to him later. So does Kirby.

I looked into this, This might affect the endlag of greninja's 3rd custom side special. Can anybody can confirm this for me, I don't have access to 1.1.0 to test the differences.

 

[Thinktron]

Since shield stun has been amped, is 's Spindash, Spincharge (3 hits), and Fair (6 hits) busted on shield now?

Did just become top 3 again...I can settle with this.

Don't scare people like that :'(

 

[redcometchar]

I according to training mode, Mewtwo's side B can now combo. It said side B>ftilt is a combo.

Nah it always does that. Unfortunately this is not the case. Mew2 doesnt even have frame advantage after side b

 

[Shaya]

The next thing to look at would be Marth probably.
How is 0.7 hit lag modifiers working, how are his 1.25 hit lag modifiers working?

If shield hit lag is now matching the attacker's hit lag, what does that mean for electric attacks?

 

[Raziek]

The next thing to look at would be Marth probably.
How is 0.7 hit lag modifiers working, how are his 1.25 hit lag modifiers working?

If shield hit lag is now matching the attacker's hit lag, what does that mean for electric attacks?

I'm wondering the same thing about Robin's Levin moves, but I am not home to be able to test.

 

[redcometchar]

The next thing to look at would be Marth probably.
How is 0.7 hit lag modifiers working, how are his 1.25 hit lag modifiers working?

If shield hit lag is now matching the attacker's hit lag, what does that mean for electric attacks?

Falcon frame cancel knee->grab garunteed on shield confirmed
We melee

 

[FlynnCL]

My current formula that seems somewhat accurate with the range of values I have thus far from Link:
No certainty but:

Shield Stun = floor(damage/1.8) + 3

from damage/2.56

Damage    Expected Stun    New Stun    Assumption
2.5    1.025390625    4        4.4583333333
4    1.5625            5        5.3333333333
5    2.05078125    5        5.9166666667
8    3.125    7        7.6666666667
9    3.515625    8        8.25
10    3.90625    8        8.8333333333
11    4.296875    9        9.4166666667
13    5.078125    10        10.5833333333
14    5.46875    11        11.1666666667

Oh yeah this also assumes moves are being tested fresh; in other words damage being 5% higher.

That's a drastic increase in shield stun if that formula is accurate. 10 frames of shield stun for a 13% attack? Fox has a 13% back air that auto cancels 4-6 frames after its hitbox has ended...

 

[Dogmaster]

So...

Apart from the airdodge and roll changes that seems to be universal as well seeing dantarions dump, link has changes to walkslow walkmiddle and walkfast, was his movespeed increased?

He also has some other changes to slipattack, downattackd and downattacku, attackairlw. Do we know what these mean?

 

[Jamurai]

My current formula that seems somewhat accurate with the range of values I have thus far from Link:
No certainty but:

Shield Stun = floor(damage/1.8) + 3

from damage/2.56

Is the "damage" portion the amount of damage the move would do to the enemy if they weren't shielding, or is it the raw damage datum of the move?

eg. if a move does 4.5%, if when it hits the shield it would do 5%, is the "damage" term 5 or 4.5?

 

[Fuzzio]

I wonder if the additional shield lag is enough for Yoshi's down-b to chain the moving up hit into the moving down hit. Considering how much damage that move does to shields, it would become a great option after hitting a shield with an autocancelled nair or fair.

 

[John12346]

So looking at the Dantarion changelist, Sheik herself received no significant changes outside of the universal back roll/airdodge/get up attack nerfs, and some random change to Light Arrow, but it also seems that her Needle Storm has been adjusted in some way. Do we know what happened there?

 

[Uffe]

All they fixed with Zelda were two customs that nobody uses. Lol. So bad.

 

[Capitan Olimar]

Comparing the damage from Olimar with Myran's guide http://smashboards.com/threads/pikmin-management-and-more-a-ssb4-guide-to-olimar.374924/

I found out that the dthrow does less damage with each Pikmin color. Means:
Dthrow 6% -> 5% (red)
Dthrow 8% -> 7% (yellow)
Dthrow 12% -> 11% (blue)
Dthrow von 8% auf 7% (white)
Dthrow von 8% auf 7% (purple)

3ds 1.1.0
potato cam

http://gfycat.com/DopeyFewAlpinegoat

 

[LordWilliam1234]

My current formula that seems somewhat accurate with the range of values I have thus far from Link:
No certainty but:

Shield Stun = floor(damage/1.8) + 3

from damage/2.56

Damage    Expected Stun    New Stun    Assumption
2.5    1.025390625    4        4.4583333333
4    1.5625            5        5.3333333333
5    2.05078125    5        5.9166666667
8    3.125    7        7.6666666667
9    3.515625    8        8.25
10    3.90625    8        8.8333333333
11    4.296875    9        9.4166666667
13    5.078125    10        10.5833333333
14    5.46875    11        11.1666666667

Oh yeah this also assumes moves are being tested fresh; in other words damage being 5% higher.

All my numbers for shieldstun is tested in training mode, since there's no move staling there, or rage. Ensures I get consistent results.

I did a quick check in normal Smash though, and there is a difference on his Spin attack:

Uncharged, shieldlag went from 11 to 12, but shieldstun was unchanged.

Full Charge, shieldlag is unchanged but the shieldstun went up from 15 to 16.

Dunno if that means anything though.

Admittedly, I didn't test every one of his moves in Smash just now, just his jab, f-smash (base and tip), and spin attack. Since that covered the low, mid, and high range of shieldlag/shieldstun. Only Spin Attack was different.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

My current formula that seems somewhat accurate with the range of values I have thus far from Link:
No certainty but:

Shield Stun = floor(damage/1.8) + 3

from damage/2.56

Damage    Expected Stun    New Stun    Assumption
2.5    1.025390625    4        4.4583333333
4    1.5625            5        5.3333333333
5    2.05078125    5        5.9166666667
8    3.125    7        7.6666666667
9    3.515625    8        8.25
10    3.90625    8        8.8333333333
11    4.296875    9        9.4166666667
13    5.078125    10        10.5833333333
14    5.46875    11        11.1666666667

Oh yeah this also assumes moves are being tested fresh; in other words damage being 5% higher.

Looks terrifying. Roy's fsmash would have like 14 frames shieldstun.