Mario Cart Online makes me hate Sakurai

[navillus]

I have to say that the new Mario Cart is lacking in nothing. What the **** happened in brawl? I literally played my brother fifty miles away in mario cart online flawlessly and ten min later played Brawl and lagged ridiculously. Any answers because i am pissed.


on a side note mario cart online is absolutely amazing

 

[Azuro]

Apparently, online wasn't a big focus for the developers, which is beyond stupid considering that's a majority of the reason why Brawl sold in the first place.

 

[heroicsonic]

What azuro said.

Nintendo's WIFI is free. So nintendo really havent worked on its wifi as much like the 360 xbox live.

If nintendo started to charge everybody for wifi, then i can promise this, its wifi will get much better.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

the mario kart online and moh heroes 2 online are both free and those are like 100times better than the brawl online i don't understand why it was so hard to get good wifi. plus something i really hate is that when i saw it in the dojo i expected it to be able to have the same rules as in regular multiplayer like giant mode and all that fun stuff for when i get board but with out it its just a down step from having your friends over.

also wtf is with the 2 min against random people it should have been 3 stock who plays 2 min matches?

 

[joenm8r]

Since brawl is a fighting game you can't have the consoles predicting what players are going to do in order to smooth things over. This is what racing games and shooters do. This is what MKDS did, ever see a car seemingly fall off the track and then suddenly appearing way ahead of you again because the opponent took a shortcut? Thats your system predicting what happened to the other player during a moment of lag. If that happened in Brawl, believe you me, you would be a lot less happy.

In my opinion I find it amazing that Brawl works as well as it does. What other fighting games are online and good? Which of those games are 4 player? Yes, I've had the random matches where a 2 minute bout lasted 10. This is what dropping out is for. I've also been booted to the menu a few times. But honestly, I couldn't care less because 90% of the time I'm having a freaking blast. I use "With Anyone" exclusively.

also wtf is with the 2 min against random people it should have been 3 stock who plays 2 min matches?

I don't think that would've made much sense. If you lose in a 4 player match then you're stuck watching. And if you drop out when your done, then great, now you have to wait for more opponents. I have the most fun when I meet three random people and we all apparently just mash buttons to get right into the next match. Stock matches would ruin the fun there.

 

[navillus]

I gotta say that blaming it on the type of game is quite a load. There are better ways to handle it. I can understand if the transition to a fighting game would be different but how is it any different than a FPS? I could accept your argument if that was the only thing wrong with the online but it isn't. The With Anyone mode is completely useless for a number of reasons: you can't change rules, at all; you are basically fighting smarter computers seeing as you can never see who they are; and half the time it doesn't even work.

I'm sorry saying that a sucky online is acceptable because it could suck more is about as good as saying i'm dating a fat chick but she's a hottie because she could be fatter. I don't know about you but I never play timed matches with my friends. We, like most other smashers, play exclusively stock. After you lose you must suffer and wait it out. There is a way to avoid this, don't lose. And truly i don't mind watching the last min of a match.

And what the hell is Spectator Mode? As Master Shake would say, "that is the gayest thing since gay came to gay-town."

Resume discussion please. lol

edit: by the way dude above this post. AWESOME SIG!!!!!

 

[Lucario2k8]

i would like the option of stock in random matches, actually i dont think nintendo have heard of the word option, they never give options

 

[S2]

JoenM8r is correct.

Mario Kart's online isn't as flawless as you would think.

Certain online games use different methods to compensate for lag.

Mario Kart (as well as quite a few console shooters) use a method where the host machine predicts what each player is going to do in order to compensate for lag. The end result is an experience that has no slowdown and appears perfect, but is in fact not.

This is why if an opponent is directly in front of you and you toss a green shell, sometimes it doesn't hit. Because the opponent isn't actually in that spot, but your connection to the server predicted that's where the player was.

For Mario Kart this isn't really a big deal. There are so many homing items and other weapon nonsense that autotrack that it's easy to think that the game is running lag free.

Another example pf online lag handling is in certain RTS (and other games) where if your connection to the server sucks, you simply lag. The game goes on without you and your PC has to catchup to what's happening if you lag spike. The game is on the server, your ability to participate in the game is based on your connection. If someone's connection sucks, then they'll appear to just be standing idle as if they weren't pressing any buttons.


Now we move to Smash.

With a fighting game, you need frame by frame precision. So they can't cut frames out online or make prediction guesses like Mario Kart (would it really be fun to smash attack someone, only to find out they weren't really there a second later?).

Input lag is simply due to bad connections. As connections get better, the game seems a little slow. Brawl simply slows down if there's too much lag, since individual frame precision cannot be lost.

The other alternative could have been (if Nintendo used servers, Brawl hosts connections from a host Wii) that if you're lagging you just stand there and take it while everyone else moves perfectly. That's not much better. Arguably worse, since you could lose a match due to a lag spike and your opponent would see it as you making a mistake instead of you having no control.


My point?

Brawl is based on connection speed. If you're friend and you aren't getting somewhat low lag in online matches, well your connections suck. Brawl runs off of your two machines connected together, the servers exist only to connection players, not host. Meaning your connection sucks and the lag is on your end.

 

[navillus]

well put S2. Though even with the lag question put out of the equation there is still: no options, complete anonymity, and no ranking system. My point remains valid.

 

[Overlord5]

After playing Mario Kart's online My respect for Brawl plummeted






I will however Brawl anyone anytime bringith it lolz

 

[joenm8r]

I don't know about you but I never play timed matches with my friends. We, like most other smashers, play exclusively stock. After you lose you must suffer and wait it out. There is a way to avoid this, don't lose. And truly i don't mind watching the last min of a match.

And what the hell is Spectator Mode? As Master Shake would say, "that is the gayest thing since gay came to gay-town."

Resume discussion please. lol

edit: by the way dude above this post. AWESOME SIG!!!!!

I see your point and I did anticipate this kind of response from a more competitive smasher, stock is THE way to play for the hard-core player, however, you have to think about Nintendo's stance on this. They're going for the lowest common denominator here. How are the most people going to have the most fun? I'm sure thats their thought process behind the With Anyone mode. They make their games for everyone under the sun and they still have to please us too. I must admit, I don't envy their job.

That being said, yes, there are some things I'd have loved to have in there. A lobby, add rival, voice chat to name a few, would I pay extra for those things, meh. Madden had some of these things, but the gameplay was horrible. It was a guaranteed 1 second delay between your action and the action on the screen. Ugh, and the bugs. Sure, it had a lobby and the option to add the person you just played, and predetermined text messages (BARF) but the gameplay was NEVER remotely enjoyable. Thats where brawl redeems itself. I've had some awesome experiences on there. I can tell the difference between those random people and the CPUs regardless of the disconnect from not seeing or hearing them.

About spectator, I think you need to give that a chance. I dig it. Its cool to throw that on and have that goin' in the background while I'm home having lunch. It helps you unlock stuff, which is cool. I know they're just replays, but c'mon, I could sit and watch Brawl vids all day. So, to each his own.

 

[Hizkit]

Kart*, for the love of apples, KART*.

 

[joenm8r]

well put S2. Though even with the lag question put out of the equation there is still: no options, complete anonymity, and no ranking system. My point remains valid.

Well, yes, I don't even own MK Wii yet, but I know I envy the features that it has. Its just a matter of timing really. Would you rather Brawl came out later than MK so that it could have the same online features? I wanna say yes to that, but I probably would've burst into flames if they announced another delay.

I think the Wii in general could have a very simple solution to all of its online problems. Voice chat channel.
- It'd serve as a lobby where you can meet with random people or people on your wii friends list.
- You could exchange friend codes for other games (in order to be inclusive to older games like Brawl and maybe even DS Games)
- It would be a one time download fee and fully parental controlled (to keep Fox News from running an expose on how pedophiles meet kiddies on the Wii)
- It would basically allow you to meet people agree on a game to play and allow you to arrange a match. Sure, you wouldn't have in game voice chat once you get into your game, but it would be way better than what we have now.

 

[navillus]

Pedophiles ruin everything lol

i agree that a channel could potentially change the way things are done on the Wii. The sad but hrash reality that while nintendo has both the means and the motivation to take such an upbringing it will never happen. After seeing all the cool features that MK has it seriously makes me insanely pissed that brawl got so......nerfed.

I've never played Madden but it sounds like a failure on the developers behalf. I agree that without decent gameplay, cool features are useless but why sacrifice one or the other? Is both too much to ask? I really don't think so. MK is beyond perfect man. While i guess the lag anticipation thing is a bit off, the amazing competitive features of this game astound me every time i turn on the Wii. I keep finding new ones. I read a post by Gimpyfish a while back and it was an interview with Sakurai about how he didn't like competitive nature of melee and in the next smash installment he would work to remove it. I truly think this was an intentional failure on Sakurai's part because he doesn't want an online ranking system to ruin his dream of an uncompetitive smash scene where flowers and bunnies rule the earth.

Trust me i enjoy a good brawl/melee video as much as the next guy but i enjoy really intense 4 stock matches between two people you know. Thank baby jesus for youtube.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

The problem with MOHH2's online is that it somtimes takes only 1 round of thompson ammo to kill a person but other times it takes like 4.

 

[navillus]

Not sure what MoHH2 is but i get the point. Its not the lag or inconsistencies that bother me but more of the effort and time spent to make a game great. Sakurai and those making brawl obviously thought of these suggestions, when they announced they wouldn't be included, and chose not to do them. They have seriously cut brawl's potential in half

 

[MidniteBlaze]

navillus I see your point, but I also understand the deal of Brawl being a fighting game and obviously not being able to keep an online game at it's best every time with the many possibilities of thinks that can happen in a fighting game especially one with as high caliber as Smash. Mario Kart though does have great online features. My personal problem with Brawl online is you can only do with anyone as a basic brawl. If you want to have stock matches you need to play with friends. But hey that's what places like this are for.

 

[navillus]

I agree. and smashboards has done wonders for the online scene but just sit back and think about all that smash could have been online-wise and it makes you hate Sakurai, hence the title of this thread. lol I understand the complications in making a flawless online game with smash bros but not that they pretty much left the online barren

 

[MidniteBlaze]

I agree. and smashboards has done wonders for the online scene but just sit back and think about all that smash could have been online-wise and it makes you hate Sakurai, hence the title of this thread. lol I understand the complications in making a flawless online game with smash bros but not that they pretty much left the online barren

Point taken.

 

[S2]

The lack of features on Brawl are probably due to

1.) Constrained development time

2.) The lack of a proper Wii online infrastructure already in place.

Those really go hand in hand. Had something like MK:Wii been out at launch, Smash's online would have probably been better. That being said, MK came out afterwards and is basically the pioneering game for Nintendo's Wii online (I mean Nintendo as a publisher - I know other companies have online games).

Look at XboxLive on 360. The infrastructure is set, how its run is standardized. It's relatively easy for developers to include online since MS has a set system they can work around. Devs don't have to worry about hosting partnerships, matchmaking, etc.

Now keep in mind that while Brawl is Nintendo published, it was not made by one of Nintendo's internal studios and that Sakurai is a third-party (doesn't work for Nintendo, only hired for a single project) employee.

Basically, the dev team had to put out an online enabled game out where there was no previous infrastructure. And it wouldn't surprise me if WFC resources for Mario Kart weren't being shared with the Brawl team because Brawl was already going to sell well and Nintendo was going to use MK's online as a huge selling point.

Not to mention, its Nintendo's fault for promising Brawl would be online... something they did before Sakurai was brought onto the project.

So while I'll agree that the options list for Brawl's online is lame and the presentation is basically barebones, I'll sympathize with the devs because people were expecting tons from them when little resources were at their disposal.

I'm not going to argue that Brawl's online is good. It's really not. The lagginess is due to physical limitations in connection online and the presentation is bare bones. But it's not as if its purposefully lame, you can see reasons for why it is how it is. That doesn't make it any better, but at least it shines some light on why its lackluster. Hopefully Nintendo eventually sets up an online standard like Live.

 

[Anytime_Minutes]

I tried to play Mario Kart online with my Mii, Lil Hitler, and Nintendo wouldn't let me. Gay and hilarious, Nintendo is trying to be our mom

 

[joenm8r]

I tried to play Mario Kart online with my Mii, Lil Hitler, and Nintendo wouldn't let me. Gay and hilarious, Nintendo is trying to be our mom

Thats lame, what if that was really your name.

Anyway, I agree with you, S2. I was thinking about how Sakurai was working away at his studio, oblivious to what the Mario Kart team was doing in there studio and what they were doing with online. Its unfortunate that all assets weren't shared, but we don't even know if that was possible and I can't fault them for not releasing a perfect package right out of the gate.

They have a pass... for now. This thing is still in its infancy. Microsoft is what it is, they have experience in the online experience. Sony makes computers 'n' stuff (note my argument getting weak) and all Nintendo has ever done, their only source of revenue, is gaming consoles. I'm cutting them some slack.

Again... for now.