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Make Your Move 7 - It's Over, Nothing to See Here

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Chris Lionheart

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Apr 6, 2008
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Make Your Move

Nero, the demon-powered punk joins the Brawl.

Links

Nero's Battle Theme

Intro Cutscene

Berial Cutscene

Bael Cutscene

Echidna Cutscene

Agnus Cutscene

Story

Nero is a mysterious character introduced in Devil May Cry 4. He makes his appearance as an arrogant punk with an affection for his lover Kyrie that borderlines on clingy. Despite that last flaw, Nero's attitude makes him a fresh character for the series, though not nearly as well liked as Dante. Nero's main advantage is his demonic right arm, the Devil Bringer, which allows him to grab enemies, even from a distance. He also uses a fuel-injected sword named Red Queen, and a gun named Blue Rose. The mystery surrounding Nero is his identity. He has multiple rumors surrounding him. He could be the son of Dante's brother, Vergil (and thus Dante's nephew), making him 1/4th demon. He could be an ordinary human cursed with a demonic arm (which is likely also connected to Vergil). Who knows?

Stats

Height ~ Same as Ike
Nero is almost the same exact height as Dante and Ike.

Width ~ Same as Ike
Again

Weight ~ Below Average
Nero is actually considerably lighter than Dante, weighing roughly the same as Marth.

Movement Speed ~ Above Average
Nero is faster than Dante's human form (who has a below average movement speed), that's for sure, but he's barely above average.

First Jump ~ Below Average
Nero's first jump is a bit worse than Dante's average one, probably due to being more human. On the other hand, this does help him short hop aerials.

Second Jump ~ Great
Nero matches Dante in this area. His second jump is known as the Air Hike, which uses demonic power to boost the character into the air and creates a blue circle (Dante's is red) at their original location for aesthetic purposes. This jump compares to that of Ness/Lucas's second jump.

Falling Speed ~ Below Average
Due to weighing about the same as Marth, Nero also falls at roughly the same speed as him.

Red Queen Reach ~ Great
Nero's sword reaches about as far as Ike's.

Red Queen Priority ~ Great, disjointed
Again, roughly the same as Ike's.

Dodges ~ Amazing
Nero, like Dante, is blessed with many quick and useful dodges. DMC would be impossible without them.

Crouch ~ Yes, Average

Crawl ~ No

Glide ~ No

Wall Jump ~ Yes, once

Wall Cling ~ Yes, 1 second

Wall Run ~ Yes
Nero can run up walls, roughly 3 BF platform lengths upwards before backflipping off of them. This is a good (and very cool) evasive maneuver in walled stages and serves to break Nero out of being chaingrabbed or infinitted against walls (yes, I actually bothered to give the mechanic an application this time).

Specials


Neutral Special ~ Blue Rose

Nero pulls out his pistol, the Blue Rose, for low beginning lag and fires it. Keep pressing B to fire repeatedly. The firing rate is a little slower than Fox's blaster and deals the same damage as the aforementioned furry laser also having no flinch or hitstun. In addition, Nero has to reload once every 20 shots, a reload taking a full second. Nero's reloading animation is unique. He casts the gun behind him, releasing the bullet caps and removing the back of the gun with the force of the swing, tosses fresh bullets into the air, and swings a second time, miraculously catching the bullets into the ammo slots and replacing the back just like something out of the Matrix.

What advantage does this gun have over Fox's, or even moreso, Dante's guns? This gun can be quickly and readily charged. There are 3 levels of charge, each taking 1/3rd of a second to reach. The first level makes Nero's right arm glow blue and causes the bullet to do 3% damage and some low hitstun. The second level makes Nero's arm glow purple and causes the bullet to do 5% damage and medium hitstun. The last level makes Nero's arm glow red and causes the bullet to do 7% damage, makes the foe fall on their butt for half a second (similar to tripping), and sets them on fire, causing them to take an additional 1% per second for 5 seconds. The charge is storeable.

Much like Dante's guns, when fired in the air, the shots somehow cause Nero to aerial stall for roughly the same duration as Mario's cape. Repeated firing of bullets allows Nero to greatly reduce his falling speed. A fully charged bullet also shoots Nero backwards about a BF platform's length. Unlike Dante's guns, Nero fires straight forward like Lucas's PK fire instead of diagonally downwards like Ness's.


Side Special ~ Snatch/Hell Bound

Nero punches forward with his right arm and it extends a good distance, grabbing the first foe in its way. At no charge, this reaches about 2 BF platforms. At 1/3rd second charge, represented by a more intense blue fire, this reaches 3 BF platforms. At 2/3rd second charge, represented by purple fire, this reaches 4 BF platforms. At full charge (1 second), represented by intense red fire, this reaches half of Final Destination. Grabbed foes are dealt hitstun. If the grabbed foe was equal to Nero's weight or less, they are pulled to him. Otherwise, he is pulled to them. Due to traps or other stage conditions, both have their advantages and disadvantages, of course. Nero can fire this diagonally as well, by using this in the same manner as a diagonally boomerang throw. This move can grab ledges, making for a decent tether recovery. Medium beginning lag but no ending lag.
{5%}

*Note- The move doesn't actually "grab". It simply stuns the foe and moves Nero to them or vice versa. It can be followed up with an attack or hell... a real grab.

Up Special ~ Wing Talisman

A lesser used item in DMC4. It's used to get around certain areas in a few missions. When Nero presses up special, a blue circle that can best be described as an energy trampoline appears beneath him, rocketing him into the air. This works a LOT like Sonic's Up Special, but the circle remains where it is, ground or air, useable by both friend and foe. It disappears after 10 seconds. Nero can have as many of these up as he likes, allowing for some aerial combo positioning potential, but keep in mind that this has its drawbacks and can only be used once in midair, unless hit, just like a normal Up B recovery. Does not leave Nero helpless.

Down Special ~ Exceed

Nero's Red Queen is a wonderful sword. Gunblades may be cliché thanks to Final Fantasy, but motor swords, on the other hand, are just plain awesome. As you hold Down B, Nero revs up his sword. A spiral gauge that is located around his character portrait (like a circular frame) fills up, the filled up areas being orange and the unfilled being gray. As the gauge becomes more and more full, the motor in Nero's sword becomes louder and louder and the sword starts catching on fire. The effect of this is simple: it super buffs your next sword attack(s). The gauge has 3 levels and there are three levels of exceed attacks. As an example, if Nero's exceed gauge is full (level 3), the next attack he uses is level 3 and the gauge drops to level 2, making Nero's second attack a level 2, and his third attack a level 1. All Red Queen slashes gain a small damage buff, noted below. (A normal attack is level 0.) Each level of the Exceed gauge takes 1 second to build. This charge is, of course, storeable (it wouldn't work otherwise :p).

Press A while charging Exceed to push Nero's foes to the ground, impale them with Red Queen, and rev up the motor, allowing Nero to effectively use the foe as a motor skateboard. This drains your Exceed guage at a rate of 1 level per 3 seconds, but deals 5% per second to them and leaves them grounded upon ending. In addition, if you bring the foe to an edge, Nero will kick them off, effectively meteoring (not spiking) the foe off the side, killing at percentages as low as 80%. And who wouldn't want to use this move… it's just plain funny.

*Note- While many slashes are "not affected" by Exceed, even these slashes get a damage buff with Exceed active. Level 1 provides no buff, Level 2 provides a 1% buff, Level 3 provides a 2% buff per slash. These buffs do not drain the Exceed guage.

Normal Attacks

*Note ~ Neutral A Combos not affected by Exceed.

A, A, A, A ~ Red Queen Combo A

Nero performs two downward slashes, a side slash, then finishes the combo off with an overhead slash as he pounds the ground with Red Queen. The combo has low lag on both ends, with the first three slashes being quick and the last slash having some (but not much) beginning lag. The first few slashes deal great hitstun and the last slash deals decent (kills starting at 180%) forwards knockback. Combos well into other moves, but at higher percentages a Side Special might be necessary to continue some combos properly.
{3%, 3%, 4%, 5%} {Total of 15%}

A, wait, A, Hold A, Release A ~ Red Queen Combo B

Nero performs a single slash then hits the ground in front of him with Red Queen. After hitting the ground the first time, he continues to hit the ground rapidly (same rate as Link's infinite A) while you hold A, then finally plunges the sword into the ground and jerks it back out while slashing the enemy with the back end of Red Queen. This combo is considerably slower. While it has low beginning lag and the individually slashes are quick, the wait must be at least 1/4th second to register. Each hit deals great hitstun with the exception of the infinites. The last hit of this combo deals set forwards knockback (roughly a BF platform).
{3%, 2%x, 5%, 6%} {Total of 14% + 2%x}

A, A, Wait, A, A, A, A ~ Red Queen Combo C

Nero performs the first two slashes of Combo A then adds in two quick slashes followed by three turning slashes. The third A press actually performs two slashes. The last A press finishes with a basic downwards slam identical to combo A's finisher. Typical low starting lag, and just a bit longer than the shortest duration of combo B, including the 1/4th second wait. Each slash deals great hitstun. These rapid slashes can be roll cancelled at any time.
{3%, 3%, 2%, 2%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 2%, 2%, 5%} {Total of 22%}

A, A, A, Wait, A ~ Red Queen Combo D

Nero performs basically the same Red Queen Combo A except the overhead slash at the end is slightly charged for more damage. The last hit of this combo knocks the enemy on their butt, much like a fully charged Blue Rose shot instead of knocking them forwards, allowing Nero great potential combos. Keep in mind, despite the great hitstun, the pause coupled with the beginning lag of the last hit may allow foes to escape. The higher their damage, the more likely the last hit is to connect, making this combo the most useful of the Red Queen Combos late in the foe's stock.
{3%, 3%, 4%, 7%} {Total of 17%}

Dash

Dash Attack ~ Streak

Nero dashes forward about 2 BF platform's distance, stopping early if a foe is in his way, and slashes all around, hitting on both sides. No lag on the dash forward, but medium beginning lag on the slash, with little to no ending lag. Deals good hitstun and decent forwards knockback (killing as low as 160%).
{6%}
EX Streak Level 1 ~ +1 BF platform max distance , 2 swings (only last deals knockback)
EX Streak Level 2 ~ +2 BF platform max distance , 3 swings (only last deals knockback)
EX Streak Level 3 ~ +3BF platform max distance , 5 swings (only last deals knockback)

Tilts

Side Tilt ~ Slash

Nero performs a basic horizontal slash with Red Queen. Quick attack with little lag on either end. Deals some hitstun. Very low forwards knockback. While this can be used in rapid succession, it's easy to DI out of, so really use this as a filler hit during combos instead of an "infinite".
{4%}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Up Tilt ~ Jump Slash

Nero performs an attack that is identical to Ike's Up Tilt in form, but not in function. It deals a set knockback of about 1 BF platform length upwards, allowing for some short hopped aerial combos. Same lag frames as Ike's Up Tilt, except for almost non-existent end lag.
{5%}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Down Tilt ~ Hamstring

Nero performs a swift diagonally downwards sword slash that aims specifically for the foes legs, causing them to trip if it hits. Has no end lag, but it's above average beginning lag limits its usage almost exclusively to combo starting, rather than combo continuing.
{6%}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Smashes

Side Smash ~ Eviscerate

Nero performs a two-handed horizontal slash of Red Queen. Deals great knockback (kills starting at 100%). Low beginning lag, but absolutely hideous ending lag. You had better not whiff this, so you should really only use this as a combo-ender.
{12…27%}
EX Eviscerate ~ Increases knockback, killing at 90% for Level 1, 80% for Level 2, and 70% for Level 3, making this a spectacular killing move.

Up Smash ~ High Roller

Nero performs an uppercut slash (hitting both in front of Nero and above him) that sends his enemy into the air roughly 4 BF platform lengths upwards. Hold down the A button to follow the enemy into the air. Above average beginning lag and no ending lag. A superb ground-to-air combo starter.
{10…25%}
EX High Roller ~ Also hits behind Nero and functions differently, dragging both Nero and his foes up in the air roughly 4 BF platform lengths as he slashes them repeatedly. 3 slashes for Level 1, 5 slashes for Level 2, and 7 slashes for Level 3, with each slash doing 2% damage and good hitstun.

Down Smash ~ Shuffle

Nero starts shuffling around like a boxer, each movement like a mini-side step. While he moves around side-to-side a bit, he returns to his original location upon the smash's end. At the end of each shuffle, he performs a lagless slash of Red Queen that deals 2% damage and locks the foe in place for subsequent slashes. At no charge, Nero shuffles three times. He shuffles five times with 1 second charge, 7 times with 2 second charge, and 10 times with the max charge of 3 seconds. The charge is storeable, helping this attack to be an amazing combo tool. While if any of the slashes hit, foes will be caught in the rest of the hits, if there are no hits (recognized by the last hit missing), Nero suffers horrible end lag, making this very easy to punish if whiffed. He has no ending lag if unwhiffed.
{2%x}
EX Shuffle ~ Adds additional slashes into the mix (not changing the duration or number of shuffles), turning this attack into a real bladestorm. Level 1 adds 3 slashes, Level 2 adds 5 slashes, and Level 3 adds 7 slashes.

Aerials​

Neutral Aerial ~ Roulette Spin

Nero performs two normal horizontal slashes and then rapidly spins his sword around for multiple hits much like Pit's Side Special in hitbox and appearance but more like Pit's Nair in damage, number of hits, escapeability, and knockback.
{3% + 3% + whatever Pit's Nair deals for each hit}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Forward Aerial ~ Calibur

Performs almost exactly like an aerial Dash Attack, but only slashes horizontally in front of Nero rather than on both sides. Deals good hitstun and decent forwards knockback (killing as low as 130%).
{6%}
EX Calibur ~ Adds extra damage and knockback to the slash, complete with fire visuals. Level 1 adds 3% and kills starting at 120%. Level 2 adds 5% and kills starting at 110%. Level 3 adds 10% and kills starting at 100%.

Backward Aerial ~ Scoop

Nero slashes behind him, scooping the foe until they are directly in front of him. This deals good hitstun. Very quick with low lag on both ends. Good for starting unorthodox combos.
{5%}
*Not affected by Exceed.

Up Aerial ~ Motor Stab

Nero uses Red Queen's motor to propel himself upwards about a BF platform's length all the while stabbing like Toon Link's Up Aerial. This attack deals good knockback (kills starting at 120%), making it one of Dante's best killing moves. Medium beginning lag and low ending lag. Can be used to aid in recovery if you can grab the ledge with it.
{10%}
EX Motor Stab ~ Adds extra distance and knockback. Each level adds 1 BF platform and takes off 10% from the starting kill percent.

Down Aerial ~ Split

Nero performs a downwards slash all the way to the ground, dragging foes with him. Basically identical to the last hit of Ike's Aether, except with a greater ability to drag foes with you to your death if used as a suicide.
{Same as last hit of Ike's Aether}
EX Split (AKA Double Down) ~ Nero's sword ignites all the way down, causing this attack to deal double the normal damage (even doubles Exceed's passive bonus damage). Nero will also perform a downwards slam of the sword when (and if) he touches the ground, pitfalling struck foes and dealing 7…21% to them (based on Exceed level). Any foes caught in the stall then fall will be struck by the slam.

Grabs/Throws

Grab ~ Buster

Nero uses his demonic right arm to perform what can only be called an "uppercut grab", the arm greatly increasing in size as he does so. The reach of this is great, as it is between that of a normal grab and a grapple-type grab and even reaches above Nero for that distance. It's also as quick to start as a normal grab. It pays for this with the bad ending lag of a grapple if whiffed. This is also useable in the air, though it will only use Nero's Down Throw.

Hold Grab Button ~ Hold

Nero holds onto the grabbed foe tightly and uses them as a human shield. Nero becomes invincible while performing this, as the human shield takes all damage for him and has super armor. The foe can still escape like they would from the grab, though it's a good bit more difficult now. Useful for multi-person matches, especially doubles matches with Friendly Fire on.

Pummel ~ Face Punch

Nero punches the foe in the face (or closest applicable body part) with his normal arm. Deals 2% with average pummel lag.
{2%}

Forward Throw ~ Slam

Nero uses his Devil Bringer to slam the foe into the ground. The foe is grounded right in front of him, so this is a superb combo tool. Quick throw as well.
{6%}

Back Throw ~ Flick

Nero moves the grabbed foe behind him with his Devil Bringer. The demon arm's index finger then flicks them away. Kills starting at 100%, making it Nero's best all-around killing throw.
{7%}

Up Throw ~ DAEMON… PAWNCH

Nero tosses the foe a set distance in the air (roughly 5 BF platform lengths) and reels back his Devil Bringer, making a very familiar animation. After Falcon Punch like wind-up, Nero unleashes the mighty fist, dealing huge knockback (kills starting at 66%) if it hits. The problem with this is, the thrown foe can often air dodge out of this unless their percentage is really high (about 180% for lightweights), making this throw's use limited as a killing move. On the other hand, Nero can cancel the punch, allowing him to make use of the foe's airborne distance and the great hitstun dealt by the throw itself.
{30% (punch)}

Down Throw ~ Buster Throw

Nero uses the Devil Bringer to perform a throw unique to the grabbed foe.
Here are a few examples:
Dante ~ Contest of Strength
Nero slams Dante to the ground, but Dante swiftly gets up to his feet. The two demon hunters clash swords several times, ending in Nero pushing Dante away with the Devil Bringer a set distance (half of FD or until he reaches the edge) and deals 25%.
Kel'Thuzad ~ To Be Or Not To Be
Nero removes Kel's skeletal head, holds it in his hand while doing a brief Shakespeare impression and then punches Kel away strongly dealing 15% (kills at 80%), shoving the skull through Kel's chest (TAKE THAT!). Long duration.
Ashencroft ~ Demon Slaying
Nero stabs Ashencroft through the chest three times with his own sword, each stab doing 5% and then launches him away with one last powerful stab, dealing 10% and knockback that kills starting at 100%.


Situationals

Ledge Attack ~ Foot Plant

Nero leaps forward from the ledge, and kicks just like Snake's Bair (but forward), also having the same stats as the aforementioned attack. (He kicked Dante in the face with this move in Devil May Cry 4).
{Same as Snake's Bair}

Rising Attack ~ Swipe

Nero jumps to his feet and swipes all around with a super-sized Devil Bringer, having the same stats as Ike's Up Smash.
{Same as Ike's Up Smash}

Final Smash


Nero's Final Smash is Yamato, his answer to Dante's Devil Trigger. He uses Vergil's sword to summon a demon spirit behind him (that is probably Vergil), which slashes at the same time as Nero. This effectively gives all of Nero's attacks two hitboxes. One is his normal hitbox. The second is the spirit's hitbox, which has twice the reach, so if Nero hits normally, he does double his normal damage, though bonus damage from Exceed is not multiplied. While under the effects of Yamato, all of Nero's non Red Queen attacks also have their damage output doubled. Nero is invincible and recovers 1% per second during his Final Smash. Lasts 30 seconds.

Playstyle

Oh dear, not another combo character from that Lionheart fellow. Fortunately, Nero performs very differently from the Black Knight, and even Dante. Nero's gig is his use of Side Special to draw foes towards him (or him towards foes) to continue combos, and the optional but risky use of Up Special to provide even further freedom.

Unlike Dante, noob Neros can't rely on camping much, due to the fact that his gun produces less damage and he can't use traps to intimidate and stun foes. Instead, noobs to Nero will… well… just be worse versions of the experienced Nero. Not much to really say about that.

Experienced Neros will know how to unleash the combo goodness. While there is a lot of freedom, there are some restrictions, for instance, Nero's throws are exclusively killing moves, with the only possible exception being Up Throw when used correctly and Forward Throw, though they are **** good ones. Nero has fewer combo starters than Dante, but more combo finishers. Starting a combo with Nero generally means using one of his A combos, a tilt, Up Smash, Down Smash, F-Throw, or his Dash Attack on the ground or his Nair, Bair, or Dair in the air. Ideally, you will want to finish a combo with F-Smash, Uair, Fair, or a throw. Combo continuing moves are often up to the player, and consist of any of the A combos, a shot (preferably charged) from Blue Rose, a Side Special, Exceed Charge + A, Dash Attack, all tilts but Down Tilt, all aerials but Uair (as using it will end your combo regardless of percentage), F-Throw, and possibly Up Throw (and the only real reason you would want to do that is to include pummels or Hold).

With pre-emptive action, your combos become so much more powerful. Charge the Blue Rose to level 3 so that you can get some nice damage and a knockdown in. Charge the Exceed Gauge to increase your damage and power up certain attacks immensely. Set your "wing talismans" exactly how you want them so that you can use them to knock a foe into the air (sometimes even forcing a KO off the top blastline if done right). Charge your Side Special for max reach. Charge your Down Smash for max damage. All of these actions promote freedom and increase your effectiveness.

Why should I even bother listing combos when I've already told you how to perform them? Use your imagination, or did you already burn all that off in MYM4?

Taunts

Entry ~ Scarred

Nero paces around a bit upon appearance on the field and shakes his head saying "This match better end soon, or I'm going to be scarred for life." (A reference to the battle with Bael).

Up Taunt ~ Come On!

Nero totally rips off of Captain Falcon.

Side Taunt ~ What'chu Got!?

Nero plants Red Queen into the ground and mocks the foe with the above phrase.

Down Taunt~ Shall We Dance?

Nero bows mockingly while uttering the above phrase.

Victory Poses

Up Pose ~ Are You Human?!

When all of Neros defeated foes ask him the above question, he looks towards his demon arm and says "Don't ask… d**n thing annoys me all the time."

Side Pose ~ Throwing out the Trash

Nero grabs all the defeated foes with a MASSIVE Devil Bringer and throws them at the camera, breaking it.

Down Pose ~ Taking You Down

Nero sits on top of a stack of church benches and taps Red Queen on his shoulder repeatedly saying "Looks like I've taken you down a few notches."

Alternate Outfits

While Nero can't pull a Dante and change his age via alternate outfit, Nero can change his outfits secondary color (his primary will always be blue.) His secondary colors include red (default), blue, green, yellow, orange, pink, purple, brown, black, and white.


And for those of you wondering, this is my last combo character for a while. I want to undertake some new playstyles, such as stealth/assassination.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
Dodongo fun set. How big dodongo? In game he ok size. Link smaller than dodongo, but link not 5, link more than 5...

Also, why dodongo pummel do 14%? Dodongo do epic damage from throws...

Other than that, dodongo ok in JOE's book
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,283
Location
Australia
NERO
"Oh dear, not another combo character from that Lionheart fellow."

A set seemingly akin to Dante. I think it's rather interesting.

Nero is a combo character (which I know), kind of like Dante, but then again it serves to stay true to the DMC series. Nero seems to be your average set-up combo character... or you're telling me he's NOT. I can't really make much out of his comboing (Not listing combos was kind of annoying, it's not easy to go and make them out from reading the set), and I kind of question the efficiency of his aerial comboing from his U-Smash when I see the F-air, though that's kind of me just unsure of the F-air's similarity to the dash attack and it being much like a recovery. Also best make it that the grab can't be used in air if you can only use the seemingly akward D-throw. The above are simply nitpicks though.

The set isn't that impressive in my eyes (though it's probably due to me not being a DMC fan), but it would indeed be fun for the fans of the game among MYM. Im not really one to judge since you probably made these sets more for that reason... and for fun.
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,441
Doppelori: Amazing job, Junahu. I freaking love this thing. She feels like the ultimate offensive character... and making Final Smashes relevant is great (even though it's casual***gery). My complaint with it is the random order of moves... it's really an eyesore. Half the time I'd get button inputs mixed up due to the order.
 

KingK.Rool

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,810
Okay, so... I'm going to skip over Omega Pirate, Lucario Remix, Axel, Xamlues, Jynx, Piranha Plant in a Pipe, Shikamaru, Saber, Clay, Dante, Zinger, Mumbo, Tohru, Sho, and Doppelori for now. Eeeeesh.

Well, actually, I'm just going to do some VERY brief impressions. MYM 4-level commenting, here we go.

Omega Pirate: This is a very bold set. It's like Galaxy Man's organization scaled all the way up, and not at the expense of detail - I love this presentation. The attacks are all bright enough to keep interest, although they don't gel together at the end of the day the way they usually do in your set.

Lucario Remix: I don't agree with most of HR's tirade against this set, but I do agree that hitstun comboing is inherently a flawed concept - I tried to circumvent it with King Hippo by literally changing the effects of his attacks once the foe got to a higher %. In this set itself, there are a lot of things to like - the whole flow concept is very neat and frankly I think this character would be a blast to play, skimming along like a river and dragging the foe along for the ride, battering them this way and that - although it does get contradictory after a while. As a final note, I don't find combo characters especially dull as a character concept - we frankly haven't had any characters this focused on them. Just because the character would be reduced to a few sets of superior combos doesn't invalidate it - hell, just ask Warlord how many of Dedede's attacks he actually USES.

Axel: God, you know why I love your sets, Khold? They're so enjoyable. This set is really - to recycle a tired cliché - a breath of fresh air. There are missing details all over the place that make it seem like you're viewing the set through a haze, and the playstyle seems almost spastic in spite of its heavy focus, but it's just such a fun set to read, musical playlist in the background and splendid gradient organization and all. Well done.

A quick mention here - Mario Remix is typical zany/genius tirkaro, really, and although I'm not going to bother trying to piece him together - never having played the game he's being ported into - I just felt he deserved a little tip of the hat.

Xamlues: You've got some ideas in here, PPL - you just don't seem to completely understand them yourself. The playstyle section needs to be counted on to tie everything together, and especially so on a character with a handful of gimmicks (which, by the way, is a really bad way to introduce submechanics, which are a kinda bad idea anyway). That said, this moveset proves to me that there is hope for you yet.

Ultimate Chimera: This set doesn't appear on the moveset list; what's up with that? No aerials, no throws? It's not a bug, it's a feature! That could actually be applied to everything about this very self-aware, very clever set. That said, Negative Man was on this side of feasible, and Chimera is on the other.

Jynx: I suspect I like this set more than I should. The Ice Voodoo concept is an immensely clever one I haven't seen in MYM since Tonberry, and your implementation of it is spot on. The conception of this set is ingenious - the standards let it down just a bit, with only a few of them interacting with it, but that's all remedied if you squint a bit and figure that this is a simplicity/feasibility-oriented set. Very fond of this one, and, by the way, it's fantastic to see that you're back with us again, filip.

Then there's this awful spamstorm on the rest of page 23. You should all be ashamed.

Piranha Plant in a Pipe: I can't say I'm fond of the smug/superior tone you take when talking about Chernabog, who's a perfectly respectable set and deserving of a bit more respect when you rip his concept off so shamelessly. You seem aware that there's little chance of balance in a concept like this, of course. And the organization is fairly atrocious, the kind of thing I used to see in MYM 3.0. With all that out of the way, I love what you were trying to do - make the ultimate noob pick-up-and-play character, one so simple that you don't even have to worry about moving. Playing him would probably be more stressful than you meant it to be, but the fact remains that this is one of the boldest, and yes, Warlord, most experimental sets I've seen in MYM this contest.

I'm going to pass on Shikamaru so I can keep my thoughts fresh when we write that roundtable review, which should be... any day now... right? I'm looking forward to him immensely, though - it looks like you were spot on with his very unique abilities.

Saber: You know, this set kind of dazzles me. The music is so whimsical, the organization is so beautiful, the writing style is almost soporific by contrast - and I mean that in the nicest way possible. This set feels almost like a dream. It's kind of like Avatar - a grand spectacle and very enjoyable and so forth, but what has it really got beneath the sheen?

Well, actually, that would be an overstatement. This is a very solid feasible/playstyle set, but it's not exceptional enough to really live up to its presentation. It's clever and interesting, but most of that is programmed into the mechanic. Still, contradictory though it make me out to be, I really like it. Really like this set. On an even keel with Subaru, maybe slightly better, and I'm still waiting with even more anticipation for the day you roll out your true masterpiece.

Not going to comment on Clay quite yet, either, because I'm likely to end up reviewing him.

Dante: My main - and probably only - problem with this set is that it doesn't really demonstrate a lot of character. I've never played Devil May Cry, so maybe that hurts me, but the set strikes me more as an incarnation of the game than of the protagonist. That said, I love the way he comes together at the end of the day and how open-ended his playstyle is.​

So now I'm at Zinger, just three pages behind, and I'm going to call it a day. 'Twas a very good... week? Two weeks? Whatever.

Oh, yes, I forgot to make comments on the two top 10s posted after mine. Warlord's is surprisingly less mainstream than I had expected - Mach Rider was an out-of-left-field and very welcome choice, since I still believe he has one of the best mechanics ever made. It's typical that so many MYM 7 choices are up there, although I had no idea you liked Super Macho Man THAT much. Shocking.

Junahu's top 8 is wonderful. Believe it or not, Gwen, Cat Clancer, and Charley's Ghost were all on my shortlist. I considered RCT for a while and am seemingly the only other MYMer who really enjoyed Cirno. Your love of TAC, of course, single-handedly makes up for all the negative feeling around him (says Warlord: "This is the worst set ever made." Thanks, Mr Revisionist!). A very individual and very nicely-presented list - I especially like how you chose short "quotes" from each moveset to introduce them and sum them up.
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,441
Kholdstare's Favorite Movesets
in no particular order



Chef Kawasaki

Hype train, you say? I don't care. Chef Kawasaki was brilliant when Rool posted it, and it still is. What Chef Kawasaki has going for him is an elaborate trap- a soup pot- that you add ingredients to and let it off with a bang. You must get the ingredients and order right, or your creation will fail. There are over 70 different recipes to make, even if they didn't get finished. That is a startling amount of versatility and variance. If Kawasaki was a playable character I would main him just so I could experiment with all the different recipes.


Nandaba Naota

When I was lurking in the annals of MYM3, I was trying to get into the moveset-making thing. I wanted to see a set I could draw from, I could structure my moveset after, one I could know what details to add. Chief Mendez's moveset, Naota, was it. I thought it was brilliant when it was posted, and I still love its charm. This set will always hold a place in my heart, as nostalgia from my early days of MYM.


Mega Man 9: Megaman

Though many do not consider it a moveset, I still love this thing to death. Since I'm a huge Mega Man fanboy, I love it even more. Junahu took Mega Man directly from Mega Man 9 and dropped him into Smash, only changing the physics as little as possible. Mega Man plays exactly as he would in his game, and that's the reason I love it; nothing has changed. It's pure, testosterone-fueled Mega Buster action.


Headless Horseman

My other favorite MYM3 set is an awesome one by itself, no nostalgia needed. Rool posted Headless Horseman on Halloween, thus sparking the holiday-themed sets. Headless Horseman's moveset itself is all full of spooky attacks (as well as the best move names I've ever seen, if that counts any) fitting for the ghostly rider. What's more important is the playstyle and mechanic, both of which are great. The idea of toying around with an item, the Horseman's Jack-O-Lantern, and manipulating it in so many ways is highly original, and way ahead of its time. Headless Horseman is FUN to play as, I would main him in a heartbeat. What's more is that it would place high even today, which is something extraordinary in itself.


Negative Man

Negative Man comes from my droogy MT, but that's not the only reason I love it. It has one of the best writing styles there is as well as it's extremely true to character. It just makes you feel sorry for the poor block of cheese. His blatant underpoweredness is hilariously fitting, to the point that you can't win with him. The main goal of playing as Negative Man is not to win, but to lose, yet he does it in the most hilarious way possible.
"There's just no way I can win..."


Ultimate Chimera

Here we have a similar case, but on the opposite side of the spectrum. The Ultimate Chimera is so unabashedly broken that it's impossible to win against him. Yet it couldn't be any other way. The moveset is also funnier than Negative Man, from the attack names "I’MMA CHOMP YOU LIKE…FIVE TIMES >=[", to the moves themselves (he destroys the entire stage). It has a wittingly funny writing style, too, characteristic of MT. Ultimate Chimera is a blast to read, and I'm still not sure if it's a joke set or not.


Wispa

Wispa is a moveset for... a chocolate bar- but that's not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it makes this moveset charming in a way that only Junahu can. The writing style makes me hungry for a chocolate bar, as it's just sexy. It's also freaking hilarious.


Galaxy Man

Galaxy Man, posted back in MYM4, was Rool's only non-placing set for a while. This is ironic, since it is, without a doubt, one of his best. Galaxy Man plays around with black holes and negative run speeds, which is ingenious. Not only is it ahead of its time, but it's done well. It's a near perfect implementation of messing around with movement, and I love it so. Too bad people completely overlooked it due to its organization.


Gluttony

Gluttony takes some very cool ideas and packs them into one package, resulting in an awesomely cool moveset. The drool puddles, devouring EVERYTHING moves, and a throw that disarms the opponent are all amazing. The moveset is genuinely true to character, and a pinnacle of MW's works. There are things here that I wish I had thought of first- that's the best compliment I can give to anything.


Doppelori

Doppelori takes Final Smashes, usually considered an extra, and makes them relevant and have a place in competitive play. She is a true offensive character, as she has to KO within 60 seconds, as well as a plethora of fun attacks (Side Special is my favorite). Her matchups are the best yet, taking on several situations for them. Doppelori is a fun set to read, but would be infinitely more fun to play as.


Halberd Crew

The Halberd Crew was three movesets by MasterWarlord, KingK.Rool, and SirKibble. They act as a team, each one with specific abilities, weaknesses, and strengths, yet they were "three separate sets mashed together". Somehow this is a bad thing; I could disagree. It works for Pokemon Trainer, it can work for them. Actually, posting them apart would not be as good as posting them together. The Crew may be quirky, but that's what makes them so. They don't "work together" in the Kirby games; they just jump in and team up. There is strength in numbers. Each moveset itself is great, too, there is no doubt about that. The extras are also the best and I still can't find a set that tops them. This multi-set is criminally underrated.


Nara Shikamaru

Agi's most recent set may be a "left field" choice, but I personally think it's genius. Nara is a ninja with the ability to manipulate shadows. He can extend his shadow, connect it, or use it as a weapon. His main feature is his ability to link his shadow and his opponent's to take control of them. I absolutely love this concept. The rest of the moveset is nice, as well as the playstyle. It was unexpected from Agi, but I am pleased nonetheless.


Zant

Zant is the ultimate stage control character. He's more versatile than Jafar, less offensive than The Kid, and more ambiguous than Lemmy Koopa. He can reshape stage, trap the enemy in twilight, and even bring out a totally different moveset that's insanely spastic... yet awesome. Zant may have a high learning curve, but he is a god to those that can learn him well. I may not main him, but I will admire those that do it well. This is what Rool is truly capable of; I admire him for it and that's why he's my role model. This is a masterpiece.


Cloud of Darkness

Cloud of Darkness, posted during Junahu Day, is my favorite moveset ever. Nothing I have seen yet will top this monster. Where shall I start? The amazing organization and presentation? The perfectly executed signature attacks? The boss-like playstyle? CoD has all of these and more. It was a really big burst of nostalgia- I've play FFIII and cemented it as my favorite RPG. But the epic-ness of the moveset just overwhelms me. I don't care if she's unbalanced- I'm not a balance nazi, as that does not hamper my enjoyment of any set. I would main her if she was Captain Falcon tier but kept the same attacks. Even after the moveset, you have much more. The extras are brilliant. So my final verdict? Nothing can top this set. Nothing.​
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,283
Location
Australia
You know, if I made a list of sets I liked a lot, or my favourite sets, it would have stuff in it that nobody else would ever put in theirs... it would mostly have funny sets. But Im not gonna do that. It would have Pennywise in it. Nobody else likes that set but me...

Spam much...

[size=+3]Maraj [/size]
There's not too much I can say, but first off the attacks, especially the Specials, could do with more detail. It's a pretty decent and basic set for a newcomer, to which I assume the set is designed to fit into Smash like what MYM is about... making sets for Brawl. BBcoding that's fitting for the character would also make presentation better, but it's not that hard to read on it's own at this point. Also, best to tell people what game he's from at the start of the set (rather than the end) since I didn't really have a clue. It's quite a decent set for a newcomer, at MYM3-4 standard but still something contributed to MYM so well done there.

[size=+3]Tohru Adachi [/size]
This is one of the 3 sets you stated as future sets (though I was looking forward to the fat cop). He's a summon character I see, and you can't have IM or a shadow out at the same time, and MI fights for the dude. The summons, 10% per second? Fickle Papillion can double or half strength for 6 seconds, Happy Gene does punches and can attack, Brilliant Cyclops can roll off the stage and carry foes with him, Slaughter Drive is 1/100? Solemn Machine 1/500? Almost impossible to use... huh, shadows used for defense and MI offense?

Believe me, the shadows were really fun to read, and the set has a hint of fun to it, thouuuuugh... it got boring after the shadow summoning business (Except for the F-air and the Final Smash). Shadows mostly seem to be just defensive tools and nothing else, but fun to read. Adachi looks like a anime character, yet it's a video game(AS WELL?)? Apart from my complaint of the set, I very much liked it even though it wasn't as funny as normal but then again it doesn't have to be.

[size=+3]Sho Minamimoto again [/size]
The presentation is totally funky. Though perhaps you could have had the Up Special first and specified the ground and aerial effects. Partially having a Up-Special as a mechanic explanation seems a tad bit awkward. It reminds me of Apemasta's Sho set in MYM6. Just a nitpick. Others worried about having 2 Specials to summon noises, but it seems forgiveable in your case since it's better if you didn't have to bring one at random. That way you can actaully strategise your summons rather than bring them out at random compared to some other summon sets. It's actually rather well thought out, so well done on that part. I do have a nitpick on the Carcinopunk that it can't be killed except by powerful attacks. That would make it totally awesome against some other MYM characters. And... perhaps his stats are a bit too good, and the D-air shouldn't be that strong. Nonono. More nitpicks however, it's a very good set indeed, though his moves were probably absent of "Sho Minamimoto" somehow. His cool catchphrases.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
MT’s Two Cents on ZINGER
Just when I thought you couldn’t pull any more random DKC enemies out of that bag of tricks you have, you come out with Zinger. A very WTF character choice but hell, I’m the guy who made Negative Man so my feelings on character choice mean nothing. That being said, I’ll give you the same praise I gave Piranha Plant in a Pipe; you certainly did the best you could with what you had. You made a set for a bloody bee, like I made a set for a bloody COW. That deserves praise right there. That being said, you’ve pretty much milked the bee concept to the bone, especially by making him a lightweight aerial ace. My main complaints are with the Side and Neutral B. Neutral B is a weird move in general (throwing mud for a bee?) whereas Side B seems like it should have the Neutral B’s aspects and scrap the whole hitstun thing. Down B is your basic stat booster, which is another one of those “Why would you ever want to -NOT- have it activated?” moves. Up Special however is very playstyle crucial so it’s good in my book. As far as the standard attacks go, they’re all very suiting to the character and most play up to the whole free flight thing. The dash attack, among some others, are very hard to actually picture properly, at least for me (I have NO idea what the glide attack is). I also agree with (Frf I believe) that some of the moves are fairly gimmicky. Up tilt has an unnecessary add on, as do the fair and bair. All that being said however…it would seem that I hate this set, no? Not at all, it’s a fun read for sure and, while several of the attacks may have tacked on effects, they work effectively towards what I agree with Warlord to be your finest written playstyle section to date. Zinger is an excellently fun read for sure and is probably right behind Portly Illegitimate Child as your best set in this contest.

MT’s Two Cents on MUMBO JUMBO
As many have said before, headers in orange = good, everything in orange = eyesore…but I won’t harp on that. You know it now so don’t do it again. The whole magic stock deal is your basic ammo mechanic (which I’m admittedly not a terribly huge fan of). Side Special is fairly dull but it’s a staple move so it has to be there somewhere. Transform I like a lot really (despite its dependency on the mechanic) and I like it how it actually has a -REVERSE- effect on partners in team matches, nice touch there. The moveset as a whole unfortunately tries to milk every Banjo Tooie power for everything it’s worth, even (the useless) Oxygenate, as well as using the (terrible) Nuts and Bolts for only the grabs. As a side note, yes I have played and beaten Grunty’s Revenge and Banjo Pilot…Banjo Pilot was **** hard though. The set does however have nice personal voice and the Mumbo quotes were in character and at times quite humorous (namely the Final Smash comment). That being said, it’s not the best set in the contest, but to say it’s a bad one (or not you best one) is somewhat unfair. It’s got effort put into it obviously and it has a thin yet workable playstyle. Overall, it’s a good set for you, probably your best…it’d be unfair to compare your stuff to say a Warlord set just because of how you’ve been in the contest far less.

MT’s Two Cents on ADACHI
So we have an Ice Climbers-esque set without the whole forcing you to play both characters. Let me say first and foremost that the layout of it is great; the way the stats are presented is very unique and very eye-catching. That all being said…I know nothing of the character nor the Persona series. All I know is that pretty much everyone else from every other forum I’ve been on is in love with these games yet I’ve never played them at all. Adachi however seems like quite the interesting guy; I admit that I always have a heavy interest in characters who are bat**** insane so I like this guy despite not playing the games. Onto the moveset though. The whole set kinda reminds me of Dio Brando; you’ve got the main guy attacking and then the spectral guy also attacking at times, dunno if there’s any connection there (aside from the taunt) or if that’s what you were going for but regardless, it caught my interest. The Down Special is a bit worrisome being one of those random effect/random summon moves but they all seem to work towards the same goal so it’s not that big of a deal. Writing style is very strong here making the set quite enjoyable to read (as well as very easy to read) and you’ve got some creative ideas going here for sure. Better than Cirno in my book really.

MT's Two Cents on SHO
The layout and organization are beautiful. Next set! Okay, I’ll go more into depth…first off, part of me likes that you have two moves to summon Noise just so that the one move isn’t horribly cluttered and overly long…but part of me feels they’re too similar. That being said, Brawl gives Sonic at least twenty seven spinning attacks so that point is nothing more than a nitpick. Which is really all I have about Sho; nitpicks if anything. That being said, I could see some cheap things Sho could do after the first stock; use the respawn time to summon Wall of Grizzly, land a grab on the foe (which doesn’t seem to be as hard as you make it out to be), chaingrab them and let Grizzly finish them off. Of course that’s just one potential thing you could possibly do and doesn’t really reflect the set as a whole. Overall, I find it to be quite a good set, probably your best. Unrelated, I feel weird always saying that “This set is probably your best!” but it’s true for every set I’ve said it about so far. Sho is great; read it if you haven’t already (which it’s quite probable that you haven’t since it’s at the bottom of the page).

MT’s Two Cents on DOPPELORI
Simply put, Doppelori is amazing simply because it touches on something I don’t think any set has ever touched upon before; Final Smashes in competitive gameplay. Of course Doppelori would be insta-banned because we all know that tourney players are mortified of items, let alone Final Smashes, but it’d be a real shame to see this set banned. The organization is, as expected from you, top of the line. The whole knockback direction, power, damage %’s…everything is done so masterfully with these little graphs. You took the concept you had going for Anne and just NAILED it here. My really only legitimate complaint for the set is the layout of the attacks; it gets kind of confusing jumping from the dash attack to the side special to the neutral air to the neutral combo…I mean it makes sense once you’ve read it, you just kind of have to look over it a few times to figure out “Wait…what move am I on?” That being said, Doppelori is, in my book, simply fantastic and one of your best (which you know I’m a fan of in general) as well as one of the top runners for sure in MYM7 at the moment. I could go on and mention the amazing matchups, the great presentation (yes I could go on about that more) the wonderful flowing playstyle, the unique mechanic, the interesting moves and fun writing style but I fear I’d be here all night if I kept harping on.

MT’s Two Cents on DODONGO
Forgive me for not taking the time to make my comment in the Dodongo way first of all. Second of all, Dodongo is a very fun read. The simplistic, yet humorous writing style makes this set VERY easy and VERY enjoyable to read overall, it’s like a caveman or ERROR (of I AM ERROR fame) is reading it to me. That being said, it’s a surprisingly good set behind the humorous outer shell. It very much reminds me of my own Negative Man; it’s a silly set with silly writing style but once you’ve gotten past that, you see that it actually COULD be a very workable moveset. In the end, it’s a very enjoyable set to read which is what I believe you were aiming for overall and achieved brilliantly.

MT’s Two Cents on NERO
Now I’m going to come out and say that I hate Nero as a character and think Dante is vastly better as a character. As a set…I dislike Nero and think that Dante is vastly better, as a set. Funny how that works really. Nero is an attempt to make lightning strike twice; similar character, similar moves, similar playstyle…it doesn’t work twice in succession though, especially when it’s put out only a few days after the first one. The specials are admittedly the best part of the set (excluding the Sonic-esque Up B) as a random note, I think four Battlefield platforms is greater than or at the very least equal to half of Final Destination, so there’s really no reason to change the Side B.. The neutral combo(s) is another one of those attempts at porting over a direct mechanic from a game that usually ends up poorly; a beginner is almost CERTAINLY not going to know that pressing or holding or even NOT pressing the button is going to change how the combo works. Then there’s the tilts…Ike’s side tilt, Ike’s up tilt Ike’s down tilt (although modified for that one). Side Smash is just Ike’s side smash except horizontal instead of vertical and the up smash seems vaguely similar to Ike’s as well (except with the added ability to jump up and chase the foe). Four of the five aerials are taken off other characters and tweaked slightly (with the exception of the bair). The throws are all fairly normal until I get to the down throw. I can honestly say that the down throw is the worst move in the set. It’s essentially saying “This down throw does something REALLY cool! You just have to come up with what it is.” It does a different throw for EVERY character in the game…except only three characters are listed; none of which are actually IN Smash. It just seems like a cop-out to me,
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,911
NERO

The constant comparisons in the set itself to Dante makes it difficult to not compare them myself. Nero is more filled with boring generic combo attacks while there were more spares of creativity to keep our interest in Dante. Granted, most of those moves were thanks to props and I understand you were trying to cut down on them with Nero, but the set is a bit of a snore, and most moves don’t contribute much of anything beyond just being another combo move. Nero doesn’t encourage freedom in his combos nearly as much as Dante which is what makes him and BK so great. Exceed can’t compete with Dante’s Up Special traps and Demon Armor/BK’s warping, and the set flows less then BK and Dante when they were already on the border. Of course, I can’t really expect much more considering this set was made in a day.
 

ieyasu tokugawa

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
10


Seth, the S.I.N. leader has joined the brawl

Background:
Seth is the 15th of 26 enhanced beings that collect data to create a perfect warrior in Street Fighter IV. As the result of his humanity Seth claims to be superior while the others are puppets. He wants to control the rest of Shadaloo after M. Bison was killed by Akuma. He needs Ryu to complete his BLECE Project so he hosts a World Warriors tournament with the intention of luring him. During the tournament he is dismayed at reports that M. Bison has come back to life. Bison tells Seth that everything was going to his plan and defeats him. Crimson Viper then fights the weakened Seth this time killing him. Bison then controls the other copies of Seth to fight the other fighters.

Stats:
Size:6/10
Weight:7/10
Power:9/10
Speed:6/10
Jumps:7/10
Falling Speed:6/10
Range:8/10
Priority:7/10
Recover:4/10
Crouch:5/10

Special Attacks:

Neutral:Sonic Boom
Seth swings his right arm right releasing a black ring of energy that spins to Seth's opponent. This attack has aura effects like Lucario's Neutral Special. This move is borrowed from Guile. [7%)

Side:Missile
Seth shoots a missile that travels across the stage from his hand. You can control the trajectory of the missile by using the control stick. There is a big chance that Seth will shoot a heat seeking missile or a super missile that packs a deadly punch. Borrowed from Samus. [6%-21%]

Up:Shoryuken
Seth jumps into the air doing an uppercut with his left hand. Pressing B again while in midair will have Seth do another uppercut with his right and pressing B a 3rd time will have Seth do an uppercut with both hands. Borrowed from Ryu. [5% per uppercut]

Down:Thunder
Seth raises his left hand shouting "Hold still!" summoning down a bolt of thunder from the sky to surround him. Opponents should not be too close to Seth when he is doing this. Anyone who is unlucky to stand near Seth while thunder is coming down will get shocked and knocked away. Borrowed form Pikachu. [10%-20%]

Standard A Attacks:
Neutral A:
Seth starts his combo by doing a punch to his opponent's chest then a left hand swing across the opponent's face then turn around and do an elbow attack on the opponent's chest and end the combo by stretching out his left leg kicking the opponent in the face. Unlike most villains Seth's combo is very quick and will give out a big knockback. [Up to 15%]

Side Tilt:
Seth stretches out his right hand to punch his opponent in the stomach. Seth will stretch out his arm 3 Ikes forward before retracting his arm back to him. Think Mr. Fantastic or Dhalsim. [9%]

Up Tilt:
Seth stretches his left leg up into the sky giving his opponent a kick under the chin and knocking him/her into the air. The kick can even knock anyone trying to atack Seth from the air out of the sky. The leg will stretch 3 Bowsers up before retracting to Seth. [6%]

Down Tilt:
Seth crouches and sweeps his legs across the floor to trip up his opponent. [7%]

Dash Attack:
Seth spins forward slowly while streching out his arms to hit his opponent like a helicopter's big propellors spinning along the ground. This can constantly hit Seth's opponents like R.O.B.'s Side Special but with stretching arms. If an opponent is hit 5 times he/she will be knocked away. [5% per hit]

Smash Attacks:

Forward Smash:
Seth takes his left arm and moves it in a half circle above him. He will move his right arm to follow his left after that then Seth will stretch out his arms to hit his opponent in the stomach to blast his opponent away. The upper half circle arm attack will also hurt the opponent. Charging up will take 3 seconds. [up to 13%]

Up Smash:
Seth lightly jumps off the ground and does a right kick to his opponent's face then left kick to the side of his opponent's head. When he has connected with those he will throw his opponent up into the air using his legs. Much like Captian Falcon's Up Smash but with a different end to it. [10%]

Down Smash:
Seth will slam his arms to the ground like a hammer knocking his opponent off his/her feet. [6%]

Aerial Attacks:
Neutral:
Seth starts out by doing a one-two hit with his arms which stretch out then a stretching right kick to knock his opponent away from him. This attack will reach little opponents who are jumping and are midair with him. [9%]

Forward:
Seth stretches out his arms and legs to punch and kick his opponent in midair at the same time. This will help Seth reach out to Smash Balls much quicker in midair than his neutral air combo. Opponents will have to try to stop Seth if he thinks about doing the attack. [9%]

Backwards:
Seth stretches out his right hand to the back to stop anyone form attacking him from behind. [5%]

Down:
Seth stops in midair to stretch his right hand into a fist to punch anyone still on the ground. This resembles one of Spring Man's attacks in Mega Man 7. [6%]

Up:
Seth does a stretching right straight into the sky then stretches his left arm up to the sky. This also helps Seth knock anyone out of the air. [7%]

Throws/Grabs:
Pummel:
Seth moves his head back and moves his forward very hard to hit his opponent's face while holding the opponent by the throat. This is much like Balrog's headbutt pummel in Street Fighter games. 4% per hit.

Forward:
Seth takes his opponent like a baseball then throws the opponent like a pitcher would with a baseball. [8%]

Back:
Seth grabs his opponent's waist and stretches his arm with the still helpless opponent back doing a stretching German Suplex on the opponent. No knockback is dealt but it drives the opponent into the ground. [9%]

Down:
Seth slams his opponent to the ground face first and then punches his opponent back 4 times. When this is done, Seth gets up while the opponent stays on the floor until he/she moves again. [6% per punch]

Up:
Seth puts his opponent in a baby carrying position, raises the opponent a bit, breaks his opponents back with his knees and then throws the opponent straight up into the sky. If the opponent hits a ceiling the opponent just goes back down setting the opponent up for another attack. [13%]

Final Smash:
Tanden Stream:
Seth's Ultra Combo from Street Fighter IV. Seth charges something from his tanden saying "Let's take this to the next level!" and then shoots a ball from his tanden. If it connects, Seth will suck his opponent into his tanden stomach saying "Become a part of me." Once his opponent is trapped, Seth charges up his tanden a bit then faces the screen and then shoots his opponent out of his tanden into the screen saying "It's over!". This will instantly KO the opponent.

Playstyle:
Seth is a strong fighter in Brawl. He can stretch his arms out like Dhalsim or even Mr. Fantastic. He borrows moves form not only the Street Fighters but also from some smashers. This stretching arms and legs can make him clever at breaking smash balls form a far distance. Unlike Pikachu he shouts a word when he brings thunder down from the sky. He is much faster than most villains in Brawl.

Pallets:
Default Seth (Blue team)
Seth Red skin (Red team)
Seth Greenish-Yellow skin (Green team)
Seth Black skin
Seth Orange skin
Seth Turquoise skin

Extras:
Taunt Up:Seth puts his arms on his waist saying "You look tired. Need a break?!"
Taunt Side:punches his metal body with no effect saying "See what i'm really made of!"
Taunt Down:Seth shows and open hand forward saying "Show me your power..." then closes it shouting "All of it!"
Win Pose 1:Seth moves his arms apart saying "Within my body lies the whole of the universe. I am eternal!"
Win Pose 2:Glows his tanden a bit then says "Ah. So there was value in observing you after all."
Win Pose 3:Mimics one of Wolf's win poses saying "I thought you would be more valuble than this!"
Win Pose against Ryu:Holds Ryu's lifeless form by the throat and says "Now my BLECE project is complete!"
Win Pose against M. Bison:Seth stands on Bison's dead body saying "From now on, i'm ruler of the world!"
Lose Pose:Walks away while holding his right elbow saying "Next time smasher, you will not be so lucky!"
 

Junahu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
899
Location
Shropshire Slasher
It's Sunday and such, so that means another Weekly Recap courtesy of MT.
...and some more polls to vote on for Aedi.


Nero: Why people are considering Dante to be the better set is frankly mindboggling. Maybe it's Dante's Up Special thing..
With Dante's blatant trap it's easier to understand how it works with combos. But Nero's blatant trap simply shines with creative potential and once you picture it being used in brawl, it just feels like something Nero would use. (though perhaps they should dissapear after being jumped on 2 or 3 times, instead of after 10 seconds)
And that's the biggest advantage this set has over Dante; every attack feels "right" for Nero. From the branching Jab combo, to using the Devil Bringer to keep foes close (I assume the "hitstun" is only enough to compensate for the actual duration of the attack, rather than being something that can specifically start combos), it's all genuinely "Nero".
Like Dante, though, the set's writing and presentation comes across as dry, and even occasionally clunky, which is kind of at odds with the whole excessive cool-factor DMC is played for

Really people? Is leaving hitstun traps out really that much better than a combo follower trampoline? I mean, traps are almost always meant to keep the foe still enough to combo them anyway, so having a trap specifically slated as a combo trap is about as fresh as using a pitfall to set up a hit.


Seth: I thought Seth had enough of his own unique special moves (teleport?) to avoid having to use Samus' Missile. And this moveset seems to enjoy playing at a distance... which is odd because whenever I fight him I can never get far enough away from him.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,911
SETH

For a newcomer set I’m fairly impressed if only for you actually getting in the detail for damage and range. Lag and knockback would also be appreciated, but there’s enough detail here to understand the moveset some while still breezing through. While the simplistic organization works for such a low detail set, if you plan on making your sets much longer you might want to spruce them up with some BBCode.

As for the actual set, Seth copying attacks of the Street Fighters is one thing, but copying those of the Brawl characters feels a bit random and he doesn’t really have a lot of moves to call his own outside unimportant ones. The moves don’t particularly contribute to any particular way to play Seth, they’re just a bunch of stolen moves slapped together. Based off your playstyle section, I can tell you might be having trouble understanding what I’m talking about. . .A simple example would simply be a camper character with lots of projectiles, which is what Seth himself borders on being but is too unfocused to really be called.

Perhaps looking at some other sets might interest you? For some more straight-forward examples of playstyle to help you understand the concept you can look at Bleak (A prime example of ranged camping which Seth seems to be trying to go for) or Super Macho Man (A shield breaker).
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Just wanted to update you all on my comments and activity - over the next few days, I won't be online much due to exams. However, I will be posting a catch-up [yes, it returns] sometime next week. See you then.
 

emergency

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
251
Location
Junahu's Box
*Someone post for the sake of **** (flip)
Something.

To a better extent, I'm taking a seriously long time to reread every set and try to comment for it. This is longer than going to school, holy crap.
 

goldwyvern

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
519
Location
Holy keys locked in the jet, Batman!
DODONGO

Dodongo dislike smoke. Smoke confused because Dodongo moveset so good that even smoke like Dodongo. Dodongo simple. Simplicity and writing very fitting of Dodongo. Dodongo true to character because Dodongo no have identity crisis. Throws very bad in comparison. Make Dodongo have more Fury. Dodongo throws do better and it get vote. Hopefully place. That very good gesture towards death of Dodongo brother. Grief stressful for Dodogno. Contest good. Dodongo got eat Bagels now.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,911
CAIRNE BLOODHOOF



Nearly every race in Warcraft can be argued to be evil. The racism of the Humans drove the Elves forced them to take refuge with Illidan, and the Orcs can’t get enough demonblood. While there’s a minimal force of Orcs trying to move on from their demonic past under Thrall, it wouldn’t of gotten much of anywhere if not for Cairne’s noble Tauren helping them along. Even the Night Elves produce evil with abominations such as Illidan, though the most “evil” Tauren contribute to the world is just a few simple thieves (And they’re far from successful for rather obvious reasons. . .).

STATS

Size: 10
Weight: 10
Traction: 9
Power: 8
Priority: 7.5
Range: 7
Falling Speed: 7
Recovery: 5.5
Aerial Movement: 5
Attack Speed: 3.75
Jumps: 3
Movement: 2.5

Pretty typical heavyweight stats right here. Keep in mind these stats are pretty much Ganondorf’s outside the buffed recovery and some grab priority. Attack Speed is the most important stat in the game by a very large margin. Unlike Ganon most of Cairne’s attacks start up quite quickly, but near all of them are extremely punishable.

REINCARNATION



Cairne only has one stock for every 3 stock you put on the counter, but this passive ability keeps him in the running. When he’s killed, an ankh appears on his respawn platform and Cairne appears in a bright flash. Aside from the flashy animation, what’s the difference? You can’t just reincarnate forever, as Reincarnation has a two minute cooldown.

While this means that Cairne can potentially be robbed of his third stock, he’s far better equipped then a standard character (Or even most defensive characters) to survive that long, allowing him to potentially reincarnate forever. How much time Reincarnation has left to cool down is displayed with his portrait being darkened when he reincarnates and it slowly undarkening as the cooldown expires, much like WC3.


SPECIALS

DOWN SPECIAL – THUNDEROUS CRASH

This is a lagless to start standard stall then fall that spikes the foe down, though used off-stage it’s suicide. If used on the ground, Cairne leaps up a bit similar to Bowser’s Down Special. While this has Ganon dair power, it curiously does no damage. If the foe hits the ground from the spike, though, they’ll take extra hitstun, enough for Cairne to crash onto the foe again. If Cairne hits a grounded foe, he pitfalls them. The amout of damage and time they’re pitfalled for varies on how high Cairne fell down before he hit the ground – 6% and a half a second of hitstun for every Ganondorf he falls. The ending lag on the move is pretty bad, though it won’t be an issue if you actually pitfall the foe.

That’s all well and good, but Cairne has no methods of getting high into the air with his horrendous jumps. . .How’s he get around the problem?
He makes part of the stage lower so he has further to fall.

UP SPECIAL – WAR STOMP



Cairne stomps down onto the ground forcefully with lag comparable to a Dedede dsmash. This effects the ground under and 3/4 the size of a Battlefield platform on either side of Cairne, dealing 8% and exceptionally good hitstun. This could very easily infinite a foe, but as this move stales the hitstun becomes weaker. Still, this move can combo into itself for 3 uses before the foe can escape for a nice 24% assuming it’s fresh.

The part of the stage Cairne stomped sinks down slightly (Kirby’s height). If this move was spammed in the center of a traditional stage, it’d eventually look like an upside-down arch. You can’t just make the entire stage sink down and if you start doing it in a different area the first part of the stage you stomped down will start to rise back up. Cairne doesn’t need to worry about making time to set this up – he’s perfectly capable of stomping down the ground when a foe is right in his face due to the great hitstun on the move.

Unfortunately this vital move also shares the same input as your recovery. When used in the air the hitbox is just Cairne’s hoof with Rob dair power, but it pushes him up into the double Ganon’s height without making him go into helpless. This shares the staling with the grounded version, making you go up less high with each stomp. 3 stomps get you up 3.5X Ganon’s height in total, though any uses beyond that gain you no vertical distance. Make sure you use the grounded War Stomp to build up your pit when you’re a lower percentages so you don’t have to later when you need the aerial War Stomp for recovery. Don’t use the aerial version to get higher for your Down Special – it’s much too predictable and just stales the move.


SIDE SPECIAL – SHOCKWAVE



Cairne impales his axe into the ground for very little starting lag, but the ending lag is on par with the start lag of Dedede’s fsmash. This causes a shockwave that height of Mario and the width of DK to go forward the distance of Wolf’s blaster. The shockwave does rapid hits of 1% and dragging knockback that's impossible to DI out of. If a foe is caught in it for the whole duration they take 18%. The shockwave goes along the ground identically to Pikachu’s Neutral Special, meaning if he’s in a stomped down pit from War Stomp he can send Shockwaves down into it or up out of it. Most foes are unable to use projectiles here, though, due to being unable to aim them.

Trying to camp with this in a pit is pretty much impossible due to the end lag.
What you more want to use this for is to use the dragging knockback of it to get the foe into the pit for you to use Down Special on. Don’t worry about the Shockwave going too far – if it reaches the bottom of a pit, it’ll dissipate instantly. While this can’t go under the many defensive walls of defensive characters, it’ll keep going into the wall and not dissipate until it’s duration expires. This means if you can get into their little hidey hole and Shockwave them against their own wall they’ll take 18% and be extremely vulnerable to anything you have to throw at them, though they can DI out before you can send another Shockwave.

NEUTRAL SPECIAL – BLADESTORM

Cairne hastily starts spinning around with his axe, though he spins around pretty slowly at first. The axe reaches out slightly less far then Dedede’s hammer extends with ftilt. The handle of the axe does rapid hits of 1% that do set knockback that push the foe towards the axe head which deals 10% and set upward knockback. Cairne can tilt the control stick up or down as he spins around to raise or lower the axe down, preventing small characters from walking under the axe or the foe jumping over it to get to Cairne. Cairne can’t raise the axe that quickly, though, so if you fake out you’re going to approach from the ground you can get to him. Cairne can come out of move by pressing shield with .3 seconds of lag, but if he stays in this stance 4 seconds or longer he goes dizzy as if he broke his shield.

Cairne can hurl his axe in the direction he’s facing at any angle to come out of the move laglessly by pressing B a second time. It can go as far as Final Destination’s length at Captain Falcon’s dash speed dealing 30% and knockback that kills at 60% with max charge, though it does basically nothing without charging. The axe sits where it lands and Cairne can’t use any attacks that use the axe until he picks it up, but the foe can’t interact with it and once Cairne gets to it picking it up is automatic and lagless. The axe respawns in Cairne’s grasp 5 seconds later if it goes off-stage. The best way to throw the axe is directly upwards into the air so it automatically falls back down to you so you can catch it, and if a foe gets hit by the axehead while you’re spinning around this can easily combo into it.

STANDARDS

NEUTRAL ATTACK – AXE SWING

Cairne quickly brings his mighty axe above his head before swinging it down onto the ground for range a bit less then Bowser’s ftilt. On the way down the axe head does no damage and spiking knockback, though in the brief moment it connects with the ground it does 6% and pitfalls foes. The second hit of the combo has Cairne bring his axe up out of the ground (where it got stuck) and swing it an upwards arc, dealing another 6% and knockback that kills at 190%.

So. . .Why not just hit with the first hit of the combo to pitfall the foe then come out of the Neutral A to hit them with a KO move?
If you don’t do the second hit of the combo Cairne has horrible lag pulling his axe out of the ground. You can sit here with both you and the foe unable to do anything to stall a bit for the Reincarnation timer, though that’s it. At very high percentages you can possibly get out of the lag with enough time leftover to do a KO move, but we’re talking 210% or so (Though at 145% you can cancel it into a less laggy move).

DASHING ATTACK – SHOULDER BARGE

Cairne quickly does a shoulder charge forward like Ganon’s, though he keeps it up a good bit longer. This is a keep running dash attack, but if you do it farther then 1.25 Battlefield Platforms Cairne will pick up too much momentum and collapse over forward and there’s some lag to cancel it early. Cairne’s arm is a decent priority hitbox that does 10% and vertical knockback that kills at 150%.

Cairne goes faster when going downhill while shoulder barging and the damage is buffed to 15% (The kill percentage is the same due to you being lower down). He even gains superarmor at max speed, but he can only dash ¾ a Battlefield Platform before collapsing forward, giving him little time to utilize it. When going uphill the damage is slightly nerfed to 8% and he goes a bit slower, but he never collapses while doing so.

FORWARD TILT – GRAVEDIGGER

Cairne laglessly headbutts down into the ground. His horns are a small but moving grab hitbox as he does this, and the long arc it goes in before it hits the ground makes this easier to hit with then the small hitbox would imply.

Cairne buries his head in the ground at the end of the move for rather embarrassing ending lag if the move is whiffed, though
the foe will be stuck underground during this end lag if the grab connects. Great to occasionally throw out when waiting on the Reincarnation cooldown timer, horrible spammed.

UP TILT – BATTLE ROAR

Cairne lets out a battle roar as a gigantic aura surges out of him. The aura comes out instantly and it only takes .35 seconds to fully expand and Cairne’s free to move again. The aura extends out as far as the radius of the max Smart Bomb radius, dealing no damage but pushing foes to the edge of the radius. This serves it’s purpose as a GTFO which Cairne needs thanks to his size and weight, and this is one of Cairne’s few options that’s not very punishable. As this move stales the radius becomes smaller and smaller, so you can’t just spam this in place to be invulnerable to melee attackers.

DOWN TILT – BURY

With a very slight bit of start-up Cairne starts kicking up some small rocks out of the ground forward as long as you hold A. They only travel forward Kirby’s width before vanishing. Cairne’s kicking deals 7% and weak set knockback while the rocks deal 3%, flinching, and a slight push back effect.

The rocks will go forward much farther if they go down a slope until they lose all their momentum. Using this at the top of a slope makes approaching Cairne from below very difficult, and if they get hit by one of the many rocks (3 per second) they won’t be able to dodge the next due to the hitstun on the first. Due to your pits not being that wide, the obvious thing for the foe to do is to approach from the air, jumping over the pit from the opposite side to get to you.

SMASHES

FORWARD SMASH – CLEAVE

Cairne swings his axe forward in a half-arch arc from the bottom to the top. This has lag on par with Ike’s usmash, with better range, but in front of Cairne. This deals 20-30%, but the kill percentage varies significantly based off where you hit the foe at in the swing of the axe’s arc. If you hit a foe directly in front of or above you, the move doesn’t KO until 160-125% or 180-140% respectively. The move is strongest in-between these two parts where it’d hit a foe short hopping into you, dealing diagonal knockback that KOs at 90-65%. The most ideal way to hit with the sweetspot is when a foe is above you on a slope. If you find yourself in the reverse position, use your dtilt to force the foe to retreat and approach from the air to get them into the perfect position for the fsmash sweetspot.

UP SMASH – FLING

Cairne turns to face the screen and lets his axe-head droop down onto the ground, then flings it upwards forcefully. This is Cairne’s most landable KO move by far with slightly less lag then Dedede’s dsmash, dealing 18% and KOing off the top at 115%. All well and good, but the fact you’re constantly so far away from the top blast zone due to your pits makes the move much harder to KO with. This makes the move a lot more predictable outside the pits, as you have little other motive for being out of them other then to force a defensive character into it. Because it’s easy to land anyway, there’s really no point to following up a stun in the bottom of a pit with this. . .

As Cairne charges the move, though, he buries his axe into the ground (Halfway through the charging), then
when he releases the charge he flings the axe up out of the ground causing mass particles of earth to be shot up into the air. These particles do anywhere from 10-22 extra hits of 1% and hitstun. The hitstun makes the foe unable to get away, though they can DI downwards faster then you can halfway charge another usmash. Still, you can get another uncharged usmash for free.

DOWN SMASH – ENDURANCE

Cairne enters what could be described as somewhat of a constipated position for the charging as he hunches over and smacks his fists together as he flexes his muscles. During the charging Cairne has superarmor and anti-grab armor, meaning you can’t make him budge in the slightest. Once the charging is over Cairne gets a slight red aura that lasts for as long as he charges, giving him superarmor but not anti-grab armor. This move is just asking for you to take damage, but if you already are in KO percentage range this works splendidly and can buy you that last bit of time you need for the Reincarnation cooldown timer. The move has a bit of “pre charge” lag, not instantly going into the charge like normal smashes.

You can’t use the dsmash again until the aura fades away to just be completely invulnerable to everything, though there’s nothing preventing you from doing so the moment it expires to have permanent superarmor. Though the pre-charge lag does mean there’s a window of time in which it can be prevented, you can just utilt or Shockwave the foe away as your aura is about to expire.

This can look quite scary to foes without KO worthy throws, but Cairne will probably be at a stupidly high percentage if he’s using this to survive and their grab will hold Cairne long enough for the aura to expire, and they can use their uthrow to keep him off the ground so he can’t just use the dsmash again.


AERIALS

NEUTRAL AERIAL – SNORT

Cairne turns to face the screen and snorts, his nose ring flailing up due to the “wind”. This blows Cairne into the background for an air dodge, but it’s more laggy to start then his default one (Though this is still somewhat fast). If anybody is within Wario’s width in any direction of Cairne or closer, they get blown into the foreground by the snort, forced to air dodge. Not that great of a way to stall for the Reincarnation timer, but it allows you more then enough time to get out of the air/away from someone pressuring you.

FORWARD AERIAL – DIVING TACKLE

Cairne laglessly does a diving tackle forward, going forward at Mario’s dash speed until he hits the ground. Cairne has his arms extended out at the front as a grab hitbox with 1.5X the range of Koopa Klaw. Should he grab anyone, he’ll take them down with him. The most obvious application is a suicide KO, though any sane Cairne player will obviously only want to do so when they know they’re going to reincarnate, as Cairne –will- lose even if it’s the foe’s last stock. This makes a good addition to your existing recovery, though if War Stomp is stale this is all you’ve got.

If Cairne actually lands on the ground with this, he’ll do 12% to any foe he grabbed as he crunches onto the floor foe first, then slide forward half a Battlefield platform, dealing 8% more hits of 1% to the foe.
The sliding phase can be lengthened if there’s a downward slope for you to go down, namely from War Stomp. You get another 7% on the foe for every half a Battlefield platform you slide, so if you use it at the edge of a pit you can potentially get up to 36% out of the move, though that requires rather perfect positioning. More importantly, Cairne will slide regardless of whether or not he grabs a foe, making the move quite punishable. Great for getting foes out of the air and into the pit.

BACK AERIAL – AXE SPIN

Cairne spins his axe around behind himself for range (Slightly better) and lag on par with Dedede’s fair. This deals 11% and knockback that kills at 190%. The attack ends with Cairne turned around. If you use the move multiple times in quick succession, Cairne will spin around rapidly enough to slow his momentum.

Seeing how many times you have to spam the move to do this, this will make War Stomp exit the stale move list at which point you can use it to gain back the ground you’ve lost, even getting a slight net gain in the process. You can use this combination to stall forever in the air, though if you try to do it under the stage you’ll eventually go too high and hit the bottom of the stage, stage spiking yourself. You could try to wait to use the bair before you fall a bit, but Up Special decreases your fall speed a good bit after use if a move isn’t immediately used afterwards (This doesn’t hurt your recovery due to fair). Using this as a recovery is very predictable.

So what do you use it for? Just constantly hovering in the air generally gets you around enemy projectiles, and you still have enough aerial momentum to move around Junahu’s annoying attacks that hit you wherever you are. This means the foe will come to bat you out of the air which is your que to crash down on them with Down Special.


UP AERIAL – DOUBLE HEADBUTT

Cairne quickly down a downward headbutt for 6% and weak set sideways knockback, then does another quick upward headbutt for 14% and knockback that kills at 130%. You obviously want to hit with the second headbutt, and the first headbutt annoyingly knocks foes away so they can’t hit be hit by the second. It’s worse then start-up lag, really, but this is still a decent option for actually participating in aerial combat rather then fleeing from it, especially seeing the move has no real blind spot aside from low very low priority on the first headbutt.

DOWN AERIAL – TREMOR

A stall then fall that looks identical in appearance to the Down Special, though this one actually does damage. The knockback isn’t as useful in that it doesn’t spike, all virtually identical to Bowser’s Down Special.

Once Cairne hits the ground the fun begins. If he’s outside a pit he’s created, then the ground in the pit shoots up into the air as high above the default elevation stage as it is below it while the ground outside the pit lowers down how far down the pit was. If Cairne is inside his pit, visa versa. The part(s) of the ground that rises is a very powerful hitbox. The damage dealt is 4% X the amount of War Stomps used on the platform you’re using the dair on, and the knockback kills at 200% with one stomp and decreases by 18% per each additional stomp.

After the move is complete, the ground “bounces” back to it’s default position in a cartoony fashion, destroying your War Stomp pit. While this is your best KO move, you generally won’t want to use it outside your final KO due to it making the ground level again, seeing how badly you need the pit to survive. The exception is against campers as this allows you to camp right back against them, though using it to camp against pressure characters is laughable.

GRAB-GAME

GRAB – ARM LOCK

Cairne rears down his head and reaches forward to lock arms with his foe. This has the same range as Bowser’s grab but the lag is 1.5X worse, meaning it’s quite hard to land. To make things easier, this out-prioritzes other normal grabs (Not disjointed ones), as seeing the foe locks arms with Cairne they still have some control over the grab. Outside of following up a stun, the main time you’ll actually land this is forcing the foe with no other option but to grab you via dsmash.

SPECIAL PUMMEL – BULLFIGHTING

Cairne charges against the foe in the arm-locked position, pushing them back. He goes faster the more you mash B with no limit to how fast he can go, but the foe can do the same thing back to you. They can only button mash out of your grab traditionally by mashing A and it’s twice as hard as normal, so most foes will tend to want to end the grab early by mashing B to push you off the stage.

What can make the difference in this power struggle is slopes. If you’re pushing a foe down one, things become rigged in your favor, the exact amount varying based off how steep the slope is.

PUMMEL – BULL GORE

Cairne gores the foe with his horns without breaking the arm lock. This is a rather laggy pummel and the damage is pitiful, 1%, but it increases the time the foe is trapped in the grab for. If they’re at 50% or higher, you can make it harder to escape faster then they can button mash, generally. This isn’t an infinite as the foe can still push against you with B to get out of the grab.

If you manage to push the foe down into a pit with the Special Pummel and have your back facing up the slope, you can use the regular pummel as they push you back up to prevent them from escaping then push them back down with the special pummel. This can infinite, but the grab becomes slowly easier to escape as time goes on so this won’t last forever. If you grabbed the foe at 50% and pushed them into a pit with the Special Pummel, you can expect the struggle to roughly last a good 10 seconds, a second more for every 10% they have. While the damage output from this is minimal, it’s an excellent way to make time fly by while waiting for Reincarnation to cool down.

FORWARD THROW – BULL CHARGE

Cairne bursts forward at a speed slightly higher then Captain Falcon’s dash for a single second. If he pushes the foe over an edge, they go helpless for a period of time that varies based off their percentage. At 150%, anyone with a recovery lesser then Dedede’s will be too far down to recover. The foe is still able to push against Cairne as he pushes forward at max speed, though they can’t get out of the grab. If the foe is just mashing A and not pushing against you, they generally won’t be able to resist being pushed off the edge. If the second passes and the foe hasn’t been pushed off the edge, Cairne collapses in exhaustion for punishable end lag.

BACK THROW – FAKE OUT

Cairne hastily comes out of the arm lock. This deals no damage and releases the foe from the grab with enough of a lag advantage to punish you decently. If the foe is pushing against you with B, though, they’ll dash forward a bit before collapsing on their stomach 3/4 a Battlfield platform away where you can punish them with War Stomp or Shockwave. Very high risk high reward throw. If the foe remains predictable this is how they’ll be exiting your grab game for all the more punishment.

UP THROW – BUCK

Cairne brings his head under the foe’s upper torso, then bucks them upwards over his back for 7% and diagonal knockback aimed behind him. The throw has ricocheting knockback against slopes that will knock the foe back right in front of you to form a sort of chain-grab, but this stops working at 50% due to the knockback sending the foe up out of the slope, and your regular pummel can’t keep a foe in your grab forever until 50%, so getting the foe into the pit to do this at a percentage where the chain grab works is difficult.

DOWN THROW – SLAM

Cairne keeps the foe in the arm lock and collapses forward on top of them for 17%, Bowser style. This does no knockback and leaves you both in your collapsed states, Cairne on his stomach and the victim on their back. Cairne’s stomach rising attack and his rolls from getting up are unfortunately horrible, meaning you’re highly likely to get punished. How else did you expect to get away with 17%? Your main throw if there are no slopes/mindgames to take advantage of.

FINAL SMASH – TAUREN TOTEMS

This Final Smash has two “uses”, Cairne not losing the Final Smash aura after the first use of the move. With each use Cairne laglessly takes one of the two Tauren Totems off of his back and places it down on the ground (Cannot be used in the air). The totems are roughly Mario’s size and have 40 stamina. On their own they do nothing, but once you’ve placed both you’re invulnerable so long as you’re in-between them. The obvious thing to do is to place them at either end of the stage, but it doesn’t take that much to destroy the totems and render the Final Smash useless. . .

Cairne can use Down Special to drive the totems into the ground to make them invulnerable, though it’ll take a good 5 stomps if you just short-hop the Down Specials onto the totems, which means you might want to compromise and place one of the totems in your pit (Which is probably in the middle of the stage) so you can drive the stake into the ground with one mighty stomp. While this allows you to hide just fine for your Reincarnation timer, the totems automatically expire in a minute regardless of whether or not you’ve buried them, meaning the foe can also just wait outside the totems for them to expire. If you expect to go on a true endless Final Smash worthy romp, you’ll want to set them up on both sides of the stage, but this is much harder to pull off. This Final Smash requires more effort on your part then just getting the Smash Ball, but the potential pay-off is ridiculous.

PLAYSTYLE

Cairne’s playstyle radically shifts throughout the match based off his reincarnation timer. Earliest on in the match is when he’s most offensive, as he has Reincarnation backing him right off the bat. Granted, this is when Cairne will want to focus most on making a nice deep pit, but it’s not like he has to make time to set it up. All he’s doing is focusing on landing War Stomps, which also racks him up some nice damage. Beyond that, Cairne is free to focus exclusively on damage racking and KOs here.

USmash and Fsmash are generally your best options, usmash requiring no set-up but being much more predictable. Neutral Special makes a surprisingly decent gimper. Cairne has plenty of non-axe based moves to use while he waits to get his axe back, and a dsmash followed by spamming of utilt will buy you enough time to get your axe back if you want it so badly. Down Special also sets you up for pretty much whatever you want and thus can be considered a KO move in it’s own right. Shockwave the foe towards the pit, then quickly jump above the center of the pit and use Down Special so you crash down just as they get there. If you’re getting punished for Shockwaves too much, bait the foe to come under you and get high into the air with the War Stomp/bair combo. This first stock is the easiest time to KO, seeing as this is the time foes will be wanting to do any setting up they have to do seeing they’re not racing against the Reincarnation timer to kill you.

When he’s about to kick the bucket going for a suicide KO with fair is the most ideal option, though that’s more of a wet dream then anything else, especially seeing you’ll die alone if you miss. What you’ll more be wanting to do is to abuse War Stomp and utilt the foe away to get the pit as deep as possible. Yeah, the moves will become horribly stale, but Reincarnation will fix that soon enough.

On the second stock Cairne plays more defensively in that he has to stall for a disturbingly long 2 minutes. While this might sound like it’d involve running and such, Cairne’s poor dodges and movement make this a poor idea. He’ll still very much be attacking here with moves like the first hit of jab and ftilt to stall the foe. Hell, Dsmash makes the foe run from Cairne rather then visa versa. Cairne isn’t one to back down from his foes and will still constantly be attacking you.

While Cairne has utilt and nair to get breathing room and keep foes off him to prevent from getting too much damage, his weight and size still mean it’ll go up at a decent rate. Where Cairne exceeds is in surviving once his percentage is already high up, mainly thanks again to that glorious dsmash, which you’ll want to constantly be turtling up in once you reach the absurdly high percentages. At this point the foe won’t really have the option of running from you and waiting for a chance to punish it, they’ll have to grab you. From here you can make grabs near impossible with Neutral Special (Though unless you throw your axe away you’ll be eating a KO move at the end) or lead into Cairne’s excellent stalling grab game. If you want to get in a grab earlier on, try and pitfall the foe with Down Special. Once you get in a grab you can even go for a KO with fthrow, though KOs should be a lesser concern at this point. Survival is your primary focus. War Stomp still proves useful here for all the stun. While this might sound like a bad idea due to it making you vulnerable to being gimped due to no recovery, you can just use dsmash followed by utilt spam to refresh War Stomp and stall all the more.

Once Reincarnation has finally cooled down, you’ve easily gone through the most difficult part of the game. Pat yourself on the back. Seeing the absurdly high percentage you’re up at now you won’t be able to do much of anything beyond just continue to survive, so you’ll generally just want to make your pit a bit deeper or go for an fair and just let yourself reincarnate.

The third stock plays more like a standard Smash match in that the foe will be racing you for the kill rather then the Reincarnation timer, though if Cairne gets this far things will be significantly rigged in his favor thanks to his wondrous dair. Considering how insanely deep the pit should be by now, not much damage racking is necessary for a KO, though you’ll probably want to get a bit of damage on the foe anyway and pitfall them to guarantee victory.


MATCH-UPS

Vs. King Dedede: 35/65, Dedede’s favor

Dedede’s chain grab on Cairne isn’t quite an infinite, but he has a short step chain grab on him like with Bowser that lasts so long people call it an infinite anyway. Close enough, right? The deal breaker for Dedede is that he can’t chain grab Cairne if he makes his pits deep enough, though Cairne still has to get in 9 War Stomps before that happens. This isn’t as many as it sounds as you only have to catch Dedede thrice while War Stomp’s fresh, but refreshing War Stomp is the problem. Dsmash followed by utilt spam can keep you safe from the Penguin King’s grab and refresh War Stomp once, sure, but beyond that, what are you going to follow up the dsmash with to keep him at bay? Neutral Special? Sure, that keeps you from getting grabbed, but it only counts as one move so it doesn’t refresh War Stomp. If you eat that deadly grab of his, you’re dead, and furthermore he can bair wall of pain you thanks to your lack of a recovery due War Stomp being stale.

If you get beyond that horrible starting period without getting chain grabbed you’re golden, but even then things are slightly in Dedede’s favor. Dsmash doesn’t phase Dedede with his easy to land grabs and high payoffs for them even without the chain grab, though so long as you stay in the pit he won’t be able to KO until absurdly high percentages with uthrow (Yes, this match-up actually has a use for it). This –does- make Dedede quite predictable though and easy to land your own grab. Hell, you can even try to land your own grab before you have 9 War Stomps seeing Dedede’s so grab happy, though this is quite risky.


Vs. The Count: 50/50

The Count laughs in the face of Cairne’s dsmash. Oh no! Cairne has become invulnerable to 10% of his moves! Whatever shall he do?!? Futhermore, Cairne’s grab, jab, fair, and ftilt aren’t options in this match-up due to Zondark being there to interrupt them, removing some of his better ways of stalling. The bad news for the Count is that he’s forced to approach here due to him being unable to aim his projectile, which he really isn’t capable of doing. He can’t outwait Cairne, every second that passes things are slowly going into Cairne’s favor. A lot of the Count’s grabs are also very awkward to aim properly on slopes, he’ll be relying heavily on his special fsmash/dsmash and just mindlessly grabbing with Zondark, abusing his Dedede-esque grab. Cairne can resist these mindless grabs quite well with his GTFO utilt, and War Stomp can stun both of them at once and is generally easy to land seeing how much they both hate being in the air, though the Count can avoid it with Up Special pretty easily, though if you catch him not using it the damage pay-off is excellent.

Other then not getting grabbed (Which is basically impossible), Cairne’s main option is killing off Zondark ASAP on his second stock. While the Count can save him, Cairne can pitfall him with dair then pressure the pitiful Zondark off-stage to his doom, even using Neutral Special if necessary. From here the Count’s a joke and vulnerable to all of your tricks – just don’t kill him, as that’ll bring Zondark back. Just wait it out with him until the timer ticks down then finish him off. Granted, if the Count’s feeling daring he can just commit suicide to get Zondark back to try to kill you before the Reincarnation timer expires. Very heated match-up.


Vs. Dingodile: 60/40, Cairne’s favor

Dingodile gets to decide where his base of operations is. While Cairne can set-up with a foe in his face, Dingodile doesn’t need to set up at all. Dingo will hog the center of the stage to give you minimal room to make a War Stomp pit – probably not even a fully expanded one on most tourney legal stages. Cairne isn’t really phased by Dingo’s camping, though, as he can just use dsmash to not take any stun from Dingodile’s projectiles while he just spams War Stomp up against Dingodile’s crystals. Yeah, the range isn’t far enough to reach Dingo himself, but that’s not the point. Once you’ve got a deep enough pit, you can use your dair to crash down and destroy all the crystals on one side of Dingodile in a single hit to easily get to him. From here Dingodile’s remaining crystals are more of a burden then anything as you shockwave him into them for heavy damage and stun.

While the damage Dingodile will get on you before you destroy his base is minimal, KOing you couldn’t be easier and he doesn’t need that much damage to boot. Sure, Cairne can use dsmash to block Dingodile’s suicide kill, but Dingodile can hit him with his Warlordian dtilt stomp through it THEN use the fsmash to kill him. This isn’t that easy, though, as Dingodile will need to get Cairne out of his pit (He’ll of stolen Dingodile’s base and a few straggler crystals should be around) in order to actually kill him with it and he doesn’t really have much in the way of being able to do that. He resists pressure – why would he do it himself?


Vs. Gluttony: 30/70, Gluttony’s favor

Gluttony will want to take his time building up his hunger on the first stock while Cairne will be trying to pressure him to prevent him from doing it that much. While Shockwave is a decent tool to get Gluttony to move away from his precious Drool Puddle, and Gluttony’s Neutral Special proves pretty useless thanks to the giant pit in the middle of the stage and Fsmash is insanely punishable.

Once Gluttony has enough hunger up though he can force Cairne onto his drool puddle he’s been building up with his grab. Dsmash, utilt, and Neutral Special won’t do anything to save Cairne from Gluttony’s grab beyond dsmash’s charging making his hunger meter go down a bit more, but once Gluttony reels Cairne in onto his Drool Puddle Gluttony will have all the hunger he needs thanks to his grab release, and he can end it with bthrow to devour Cairne’s axe. While Cairne still has plenty of moves without his axe, it robs him of most of his KO moves, allowing Gluttony to finish him and build hunger without much fear of resistance. On the second stock Gluttony will have a full hunger meter to work with. While building damage is difficult thanks to dsmash and the pit, Gluttony can skip straight to the gimping by forcing him off stage with his grab. There’s nothing superarmor can do against Gluttony’s nair, uair, and dair, all excellent gimpers, and Cairne’s recovery isn’t that fantastic anyway.


Vs. Morton: 50/50

While Cairne can hit Morton when he’s setting up between his Doom Pillars just fine with War Stomp or dair, if Morton stays far enough away from Cairne’s pit Cairne will have to decrease the size of his pit if he wants to hit Morton with War Stomp and dair destroys it completely. Besides, it’s not like Morton needs that long to set up anyway, and the only thing that’s really that mandatory for the match-up are having nice long claws – their disjointed priority still beats Cairne’s grab, though they’re not nearly long enough to reach through Cairne’s utilt spam, unfortunately.

Cairne’s pit also helps Morton – he doesn’t need his doom pillars to have a long way to fall, Cairne’s already supplied that for him. How generous! Morton’s dair can hit Cairne anywhere on the stage while Cairne’s is still melee range to boot. Morton can disable Cairne’s Down Special entirely with his dthrow, and Cairne will struggle significantly to get the armbands off. Sure, Morton might not ever actually hit with his dair/dsmash so long as Cairne dodges properly, but they’re more then enough to prevent him from taking the d
amn things off. While this is inevitable to do some damage to Cairne, it does a rather poor job of finishing Cairne off in a timely manner. Morton has all he needs to survive an eternity here, though it doesn’t mean much seeing if he can’t kill Cairne in 2 minutes he lasts forever. If Morton hits Cairne with a dair he can go for an fsmash, though Cairne’s dsmash makes actually stunning him with dair (Not just damaging) a difficult task. Morton’s best shot for finishing off Cairne in time is probably gimping him off-stage by trapping him between his doom pillars and using Side Special, though Cairne will probably just fair you to bring you both back to the stage.

Vs. Kel’Thuzad: 57.5/42.5, Cairne’s favor

Cairne’s more powerful attacks make quick work of the Ghouls and he has enough alternative grab moves to go through Kel’Thuzad’s Mana Shield when necessary. His fair proves particularly useful for forcing Kel’Thuzad out of the fair when he’s channeling Death and Decay. Indeed, the Tauren Chieftain kills the Lich very quickly, especially with his pitiful weight, but Kel’Thuzad still has some tricks up his sleeve. In particular Kel’Thuzad will want to rely on floating combat a lot to not give Cairne a chance to stun him with War Stomp and set up a pit, and Kel’s floating standards prove as decent gimpers to try to kill Cairne off early. The main problem here is that Kel’Thuzad has trouble attracting Cairne’s attention with moves like Death and Decay due to Cairne not minding the damage due to how good he is at surviving at high percents, insisting on killing off the Ghouls. Kel can pressure Cairne up close somewhat while he attacks the Ghouls, though the moment Kel comes down from the air War Stomp is devastating as it hits Kel and all his Ghouls at once, and for 24% no less.

Vs. Dante: 55/45, Cairne’s favor

Cairne proves difficult to combo in general thanks to his great GTFO/escape moves in utilt and nair and Dante’s combos are also messed up in general due to the awkward sloped terrain. Dsmash in particular turns the tables on Dante, as trying to grab Cairne through his dsmash is incredibly risky for Dante due to how it damage him, and Cairne’s grab STILL out-prioritizes it. Not looking good.

The endgame of the second stock is where things change the most radically. If Cairne is feeling confident he can run through Dante’s traps with dsmash to destroy them seeing he has so much damage already. Dante can continue feebly trying to combo away at Cairne and while the damage won’t be that much or mean much of anything, that’s not what Dante’s focusing on building. . .Dante will have more then enough time to use his demon armor to finish off Cairne with the high powered moves, and Cairne will have so much damage then even Dante’s fastest moves will kill him. Cairne can try to stall through it like he does in general, though if Dante picks when he uses it carefully he can break through and finish Cairne off for good.


Vs. Doppelori: 45/55, Doppelori’s favor

Doppelori is notorious for being able to finish off characters in 60 seconds, and you have to survive for twice that long. While Doppelori ultimately dies easily due to her horrible recovery, she’s not gonna give you much of a chance to do that. Cairne generally doesn’t stay in one place for long so her moves for luring out defensive characters are rather irrelevant. Utilt is rather irrelevant here as Doppelori is poor when at close range, and you’ll just be blowing her away so she can approach again – the part where she actually damages you. Dsmash is much more notable as it allows you to go through her onslaught of ranged attacks to get to her and actually land a KO move, and Doppelori’s ranged attacks in general (Such as her Neutral Special) are awkward at the bottom of your slopes. Cairne also strongly resists “the repel” part of Doppelori’s game, though the approaching part couldn’t be more annoying.

While the match-up is a bit awkward in that both characters invalidate some of each other’s strategies, Cairne generally can’t survive two minutes against her. He can KO her, certainly, but she only has to kill him twice while he has to kill her thrice. The Final Smash mechanic is the main saving grace for Cairne, and if he successfully sets it up with the whole stage as an invulnerability zone he’s pretty much set. Doppelori struggles to get away from Cairne when he's entirely invincible due to her not being able to do her usual "repel" of her usual routine. Doppelori also can't really do much to prevent a superarmored Cairne from stomping down his totems, though then she can just attack the totem itself with dsmash. This means Cairne might want to set up one of his totems in the middle of the stage seeing she can destroy them decently or pitfall her before going off to set them up, but even if she’s successful she’ll of done a lot of damage to her cannon. If she uses dsmash again, her best KO move by far, she’ll die, though seeing she has an actual third stock to work with this isn’t that much of an issue. Furthermore, this is all assuming Doppelori saves her dsmash the whole match just for this purpose, which makes KOing Cairne much more difficult.


Vs. Zinger: 65/35, Cairne’s favor

Zinger’s constant ability/preference to stay in the air makes hitting him with War Stomp to set it up a lot more difficult, though considering how if Zinger is left to his own devices he’ll just pelt you with meaningless projectiles you can just use dsmash and tank the hits while setting up your pit. Don’t worry too much about not having refreshing War Stomp – Zinger can’t KO you until very high percents unless he gets risky with gimping. Zinger’s pitifully light weight makes him a joke to kill, and considering dsmash makes Cairne immune to Zinger’s status effects he’ll have trouble getting past the damage racking phase. Once he gets beyond there KOing isn’t that hard due to Zinger’s grab priority in his aerials, though getting Cairne to actually stay off-stage and be gimped is annoying thanks to his nair and fair allowing him to go back to the stage, the former even forcing you to come with him. Definitely a very hard match-up for Zinger, though not unwinnable. The most ideal situation would be to gimp Cairne early on when he’s not expecting it and doesn’t have a recovery from spamming War Stomp so much.

Vs. Sho: 50/50

War Stomp allows you to set up, hit Sho, AND his summons all at the same time. What’s not to like? Bigbansprongs (Tadpoles) and Death Metal Minks are the main things Sho’s going to be wanting to summon due to how they constantly jump about/are in the air constantly. Sho can use his uair to get his Carcinopunks into the air as well, but he won’t really want to be babysitting his noise when he can be pressuring Cairne. Cairne is also fairly competent at limiting the amount of time Sho has to summon noise.

Sho’s chain grab isn’t so much a threat for the damage. Cairne couldn’t care less about the damage, and Sho can still damage rack fine anyway. It’s a threat because it pretty much makes you a sitting duck for one of Sho’s heavy noise to finish you off. Sho’s bair is pretty easy to avoid with Cairne’s nair and his regular grab isn’t that great, though, so it’s relatively simple to play don’t get grabbed. Sho can still punish your end lag with some of his faster attacks to force you to go over to his heavy noise or use dsmash, that’s not the problem. It’s finding the time to summon them at all. When Cairne is turtling up waiting for the Reincarnation timer it’s more possible, though Sho struggles on the first stock when Cairne is completely free to be offensive. Cairne will get enough of a lead on the first stock to potentially win on his second stock, but once Sho has time to summon his heavy noise he’ll kill off Cairne fine. Cairne can risk a gamble and continue to be offensive so Sho doesn’t have time to summon his precious Heavy Noise, but if Sho realizes this he can be even more aggressive then usual and abuse the fact he has a third stock, letting himself take the hits to get more in. Sho’s bair also has an even greater use then leading into a chain grab – the potential suicide KO can be devastating to Cairne on the second stock, but landing the bair at all is difficult enough for it to be FAR too predictable off-stage.


Vs. Tauros: 60/40, Cairne’s favor

Taruos definitely has a lot more trouble damage racking here and his only way of reliably getting a KO is to set it up with fthrow. When your damage is up, predicting his grab to get in your own couldn’t be easier. Your KO options are much more varied then Tauros’, and he hates being in the air even more then you. He’s pretty much an inferior version of you, but what’d you expect when you’re only ten million years ahead in evolution?

If Tauros mixes in his specials it’s possible to get in a grab without being too painfully predictable, especially seeing Cairne never goes into the air in close combat. Considering Tauros’ grab is the only thing he needs to KO Cairne, his dsmash proves pretty useless in surviving on. The problem for Tauros is getting in enough damage to be able to KO him before the Reincarnation timer passes, but seeing Cairne doesn’t resist taking damage that well he can get –some- in. The only way to get in enough though is for Tauros to take advantage of his guaranteed 3 stocks and be reckless to get in the damage quickly enough, going for the killing fthrow before Reincarnation cools down. Tauros certainly has to work a lot here and he’ll be risking his hide in the process, but it’s possible.


Vs. TAC: 50/50

The most notable thing here is that Cairne’s dsmash renders him entirely invulnerable to Tac until he steals his grab, as Tac doesn’t have a grab until he steals one, his grab steal still having regular priority. Even if Tac steals Cairne’s grab, though, it’s pitiful slowness doesn’t make him much of a threat. No, Tac will want to steal one of Cairne’s grab priority moves that’s actually fast, such as fair or ftilt, just to give him something to defend himself with while he’s picking off the rest of Cairne’s moveset and falling significantly far behind as Cairne gets an insanely deep War Stomp pit. The pre-charge lag of dsmash is Tac’s only opportunity to steal moves. Other then that, he can just poke Cairne with his stolen grab priority moves. The only stat that Tac doesn’t copy that actually matters, weight, is also a significant burden to him in this match-up.

Tac’s main way of turning the match-up upside down is by hitting Cairne with his own dair for a sudden KO and to make all his hard work War Stomping meaningless. While saving this for your second KO on Cairne is an excellent way to beat the Reincarnation timer, Tac struggles too much to get a KO without this technique and the fact it destroys Cairne’s War Stomp pit is enough to allow Tac to catch up. From here the two of you will be fighting without the pit since neither of you wants to make it for the other to take advantage of, though Cairne’s weight and complete moveset allows him to stay ahead. The best option Tac has is using fair (Which will be one of the first moves he’s stolen) to take Cairne over the edge to take advantage of his extra stock. Tac’s higher movement actually means something in Cairne’s dash attack, making him a very fast very deadly hitbox going downhill, giving him a shot at killing Cairne traditionally as well should fair fail. Should things get too hellish for Tac’s lightweight, Cairne’s dsmash is a welcome addition to Tac’s arsenal, making weight irrelevant.


Vs. King Hippo: 55/45, Cairne’s favor

Cairne isn’t particularly adept at the whole bait and punish thing seeing that’s more of a way to beat him, what with the ending lag on a lot of his attacks. What Cairne will more be doing is entering one of Hippo’s combos and getting out of it early with utilt or nair, or just becoming entirely invulnerable with the whole dsmash thing. His superarmor is rather a moot point when he’s forced to grab you and you just grab him back through his superarmor – your usual goal when using dsmash. War Stomp also proves particularly painful against Hippo due to his ridiculous double hitstun allowing you to get 48% and 6 stomps into your pit. Hippo can’t afford to mess up here. So long as he is actually smart with his combos and leaves no room for escape, though, he can rack up damage as fast as Cairne. Unfortunately Hippo’s smelling blood mechanic comes on a bit too early to comfortably kill Cairne, but Hippo has some actually viable KO throws to go through Cairne’s dsmash and his grab is still certainly landable even with Cairne’s grab counter. The main thing that pushes this into Cairne’s favor is how insanely deep his pits get. His dair will easily be able to kill Hippo at 0% on the third stock, though Hippo’s superarmor makes landing it at a stupidly low percentage difficult enough for Hippo to still have a chance to come back.

Vs. Zant: 37.5/62.5, Zant’s favor

Zant’s basic battle plan is quite similar to Gluttony’s – build your mechanic on the first stock, unleash it to overwhelm Cairne long before he can even dream of reincarnating on the second. The main difference between the match-ups is that Zant doesn’t have any consistent way of knocking Cairne away like Gluttony while he continues to expand twilight – his usual camping strategy is rather moot, seeing the giant pit in the middle of the stage makes hiding from the projectiles all too easy. Zant will have to be moving around a lot and ultimately running from Cairne to get up the twilight he needs to adequately kill him on the second stock. Zant’s best twilight builder is without a doubt his fair and Cairne generally hates being in the air, so he’ll be bringing him down to earth with his fair. If Zant does this towards the end of the stage, Cairne’s more then happy to tackle him off stage for a suicide KO, which is generally his best hope as it means Zant will be still be setting up on the second stock and you’ll be even on the third, albeit with Zant now having full access to his twilight moveset, so even then things are in Zant’s favor.

Vs. Subaru: 47.5/52.5, Subaru’s favor

Alright, Subaru’s coming at Cairne at full speed with a powerful KO move to finish him. Cairne stops this by using War Stomp just as she gets in range quite easily, though Subaru can easily get around that by using a barely aerial Wing Road. Not that much of a problem for Cairne, he can just dsmash and tank the hit or do a diving tackle forward with fair and beat her with priority with his grab priority. Subaru can stop Cairne’s fair by using a Down Special in front of her to beat his grab priority with disjointed priority then come into him with the KO move, but there’s still that damn dsmash she has to worry about.

She can’t really time when she goes into Cairne at full speed beyond doing endless loop-de-loops to wait for the pre-charge-lag of dsmash and going for a KO move. It’s just ridiculous. She has to go for a grab, which she can only do at gear one or when standing still. While landing the grab proves difficult due to the short range, it’s still fairly fast, so it’s landable. Her fthrow KOs at 140%, which is a easy enough percent for her to be able to get on Cairne, as she can still run through Cairne when he has dsmash on and do the damage before he can do much of anything. Subaru zipping about so much gives Cairne more then enough time to set up his pit, though, and when she finally has to slow down to get in a grab she becomes extremely vulnerable to Cairne, who will easily catch up to her in damage. Shockwave her into your pit and crash down on her with Down Special for ridiculous damage and a long enough stun to land whatever the hell you want. Because Subaru gives Cairne so much time due to having to compensate for his dsmash, the last stock allows her to easily be killed at 0% with dair due to the depth of your pit, and considering she’ll be coming right at you it’s more then easy enough to hit her with it if you time it right, though she’ll probably bait you into thinking she’s going to go over the point you’re trying to dair up into the sky then just fly away too fast for you to hit her.


Vs. Fat Bastard: 35/65, Fat Bastard’s favor

Fat Bastard’s grab based style allows him to go through Cairne’s dsmash just fine and still land his important moves. While he won’t be able to stun to make his grab guaranteed due to his stuns not working, Fat Bastard’s grab isn’t exactly difficult to land and it KOs at stupidly low percentages. The main thing enabling Cairne to survive is by staying in his pits seeing his KO throws do horizontal knockback, as Fat Bastard doesn’t really have much to force Cairne to come out of the pits. Fat Bastard will inevitably catch you out of them, though, or use one grab to force you out of the pit and then another for the KO, though Cairne can just Shockwave him back into the pit as he tries and then go back down himself. A particularly nice tactic is for Fat Bastard. He doesn’t need much damage at all, and his stunners are still capable of dealing the damage he needs through Cairne’s superarmor. Fat Bastard’s dirty diapers are particularly nice for damage dealing in that he can wait for Cairne’s superarmor to expire then throw him into one. Unfortunately for Fat Bastard he’s stupidly easy to gimp with Neutral Special, but Fat Bastard can KO fast enough to not have to worry about his own safety. If he does fall behind, though, the gimpability of his recovery means fair pretty much seals his fate. Fat Bastard can’t afford to mess up, though it’s pretty hard for him to in this match-up.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,283
Location
Australia
[size=+3] Carine Bloodhoof[/size]
Reincarnation means Carine has 1 stock for every 3, and can reincarnate every 2 minutes. It's a fairly original mechanic, though I question wether it's just a filler designed for for creativity and staying slightly true to WoW or wether it has meaning towards the set itself. By reading the set, it doesn't really have much bearing (despite what you say, it just seems a BIT tacked on), but a good idea anyway. He could just have regular stock like everyone else.

Carine doesn't have a U-air by the way, though you can just give him a generic slash upwards to protect him in the air or something. Wouldn't want Bowser giving you a buttslam, now would you?

Apart from Carine's N-air and Neutral Special which would leave him as a sitting duck apart from perhaps his grabs and stomps so it's not that bad, I thought he was a pretty cool guy. Though the D-Smash would require that the foe pretty much has to stay close to you to hit you, which is kind of unfair (I might suspect that D-air is the same or defeats the purpose of the D-Special). He's a nicely done set apart from my opinion about the reincarnation. Mostly some nitpicks.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,911
[size=+3] Carine Bloodhoof[/size]
KAPATULTAR

Reincarnation means Carine has 1 stock for every 3, and can reincarnate every 2 minutes. It's a fairly original mechanic, though I question wether it's just a filler designed for for creativity and staying slightly true to WoW or wether it has meaning towards the set itself. By reading the set, it doesn't really have much bearing (despite what you say, it just seems a BIT tacked on), but a good idea anyway. He could just have regular stock like everyone else.
Reincarnation was the very first thing made for the set and the set was near entirely geared around it. It along with the War Stomp pits is his playstyle, and it's pretty much the defining characteristic of him in Warcraft 3 (Again, WOW doesn't exist). If you take out the mechanic, you would be sucking out massive amounts of playstyle, and it's perfectly in-character.

Carine doesn't have a U-air by the way, though you can just give him a generic slash upwards to protect him in the air or something. Wouldn't want Bowser giving you a buttslam, now would you?
Rewrote it and put it back in. I was transferring this set between my computers a lot to work on it when my better computer was unavailable, and the original uair was lost in trasition. You aren't missing much, hardly an important move.

Apart from Carine's N-air and Neutral Special which would leave him as a sitting duck apart from perhaps his grabs and stomps so it's not that bad, I thought he was a pretty cool guy. Though the D-Smash would require that the foe pretty much has to stay close to you to hit you, which is kind of unfair (I might suspect that D-air is the same or defeats the purpose of the D-Special). He's a nicely done set apart from my opinion about the reincarnation. Mostly some nitpicks.
Neutral Special can make you pretty much invulnerable to anything save attacks from above, which is the main reason it's so scary with dsmash. Dsmash indeed forces defensive characters to come out and play to finish him, but that's why it's weak to grabs, seeing pretty much all the defensive characters have good grab games. Dair and Down Special have entirely different effects when Cairne hits the ground (The actual stall then fall on both is meaningless) and both are essential to his playstyle. Down Special doesn't, y'know, undo all his hard work with War Stomp.
 

Frf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
83
Location
Memphis, TN
meester bloodhoof
-Attack speed is up there as far as important stats go, yes. I'd have to say weight and recovery are pretty **** high as well.
-Reincarnation has the potential to be awesome.
-The specials show a fresh playstyle well worth exploring. So far meester bloodhoof would be a character I'd have fun with. (Something rare in sets these days) Although it would've been nice if you described how exactly the neutral special works in the overall playstyle. (I guess you'll get to that later)

-Seems like bloodhoof has 2 playstyles going. His change-the-stage game and his wait-for-the-reincarnation-timer game.
-Down smash is pretty ridiculous. If it's free super-armor, I wouldn't care what percent I'm at to use it. The move doesn't last for too long though, so in that respect it's balanced alright. Although the close-to-invulnerable charge definitely helps with the reincarnation timer.

-The pummel mechanic was kinda hard to understand at first, but it oddly enough fits in with his playstyle.
-Holy bananas, a final smash that's actually interesting.

So this is a solid set, Warlord. The pit playstyle is interesting, although I wish reincarnation could've played just a teensy bigger role throughout, because it seems the slopes got a tad more spotlight. Overall though, it's an interesting diversion and it definitely has some gems snuck in throughout. Is it better than Kel? I can't say, but they're both good in their own right.
 

Chris Lionheart

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
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Location
Make Your Move
Cairne

After reading that abomination Kel, I honestly thought that maybe you had lost your mind, and a considerable amount of your talent, but Cairne manages to prove me wrong.

Cairne could possibly be this MYM's Sloth, as it combines very simple, but ingeniously creative moves with a very clear playstyle and a certain amount of smash viability.

First off, I'll address the rather controversial mechanic. While this is definitely not a make or break for this set, it does have its ups and downs. First off, it is a clever way to shape Cairne's playstyle into something innately defensive (despite not being able to camp for ****). On the other hand, it makes Cairne naturally broken in matches with less than 3 stocks and naturally underpowered in matches with more than 3 stocks (especially in 5, 7, 11, etc. stock matches). You also fail to identify what happens in Time matches and Coin matches. While these are not competitive match types, this does have a relevance to some casual play.

The true thing that makes this match shine is the pit playstyle. While I can draw some similarities to Sloth and his "hiding hole", Cairne focuses on the idea, and it is much more elaborate in his case. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Cairne revolves around his pits to the point of being screwed without them. It is all very brilliant and works out surprisingly well on non-moving stages.

One bad thing I noticed about the set is that the Neutral Special and Bair might be a little bit redundant. It wouldn't be difficult to incorporate the benefit from the Bair into the Neutral Special if done properly. It's far from a big complaint though.

My complaints on the set are mostly trivial, because that's really all I can do with such a solid work. Really... you've outdone most of the sets you've made up to this point, with one of the only real exceptions being Sloth.


Also, Mewtwo would kick his ***.
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,294
Location
Hippo Island
Cairne

Preety good set. Reincarnation is a really innovative mechanic and it's surprising how much it actually shaped his playstyle instead of being a gimmick. It's also surprising how he's actually one of the best balanced MYM sets with that mechanic, judging from his matchups at least. Though was it really necessary to have such specific MU ratios? Sheesh, intervals of 5 already annoy to me to some extent, but when you have a character with a 57.856 chance of winning, yeah...

Good amount of creativity for such a character with a simple fighting-style. It's always nice to see characters who don't have a ton of "natural potential" end up with really interesting and fitting moves. Same for the playstyle.

Tired comment is tired.
 

Wizzerd

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
929
Cairne

I was saying in the xat yesterday that Cairne had a few too many components to his playstyle to fit together perfectly, but on a second read he comes together much better and you were right in that many of your most successful sets were dual-layered anyway. The stalling and the pit-making both complement each other very nicely as a part of his well-done playstyle.

Reincarnation was very tough to get a handle on at first, and admittedly your new style of detail makes things occasionally difficult to understand. However, I really do like how much briefer it makes it, and it's pretty much the same level as Kel - complaining about it would be hypocritical when Kel got such criminally bad reception.

You've quite easily created a character who has a stall-then-fall they can actually use, which is really an unexplored area seeing as all others in Brawl/most of MYM are useless or irrelevant. The stage sinking, again, is a unique concept but very much unexplored.

Cairne's definitely a great set from you, anyway. Maybe not quite as good as Kel, but as I've said many, many times, Kel's poor reception is borderline criminal.​
 

darth meanie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
452
More Comments From Yours Truly

Nero

Bleh, it not only shows that this moveset was rushed out, what with the fact that half of his moves aren't affected by Exceed with little explanation, and he feels a lot like Dante that you posted just days ago, except with less creativity behind his moves.

Also, Exceed makes his 3rd Jab Combo absolutely broken. Adding 2% per hit to an 11 hit combo? That's 44% on a fast attack. He doesn't seem to have the same sort of creativity or tiered playstyle that Dante just barely had, it's really a weak offering from you as far as I see, Chris. It's little more than combo combo combo. The playstyle even says little other than that a smart Nero player will use combos and moves that set up combos. The Down Throw is also not only incredibly powerful from the examples you gave us, it almost implies that you weren't even taking this set seriously, with such a blatantly filler attack thrown in there as an attempt to make it less boring.

Seth

Good to see a newcomer, learn to use colors and sizes and bolding to improve the look of your moveset, and look at those links that MW posted for a better idea of playstyle. Good luck, and welcome to Make Your Move.

Cairne Bloodhoof

The reincarnation mechanic is quite interesting, but I'm not at all convinced it approaches balance. Stalling isn't nearly as hard as you seem to make it out to be; with powershielding, rolls, spotdodges, and ledgestalling already part of the game, you really didn't have to give him access to temporary Super Armor, attacks that push enemies away, and the ability to stall in the air almost indefinitely with his bair and USpecial in order to let him survive long enough to use his regeneration. I also find your insistence not to spam the USpecial so you can use it to recovery later very unconvincing since he can recovery with these two moves no matter what. Not to mention he can camp in his pit where it'll be harder to KO him and use his NSpecial or Grab to make himself nigh unapproachable, especially with his DSmash on. I also find it nearly unforgivable that on such a key move, you say nothing more to describe its opening pre-charge lag than 'a bit'. Really, that's so helpful for me to understand the size of the window opponents have to KO him with a non-grabbing move.

The pit mechanic is somewhat interesting, and it makes the smooth two-tier playstyle and offense-defense fusion you seem to be all about these days well. I've never really been able to get on board with terrain manipulation mechanics, although I did, admittedly, put even the most ambitious terrain manipulation to shame with Darkrai and Mewtwo's Final Smashes. Really though, the pit is self-consistent and embedded deep enough into the set that I really can't help but like the way you've pulled it off. He has various ways of forcing the opponent into the pit and trying to keep them there, although I find it strange that while the rest of his playstyle seems to want him to be outside or above the pit and the opponent inside, his key KO move Up Smash wants him to be in the pit, attacking an opponent diagonally in front of him. That's a relatively small nitpick though.

I also liked how you really fused offense and defense, and how each one of his stocks plays out in a standard match as he switches from set-up to defense to offense. Even if I don't agree with the exact numbers of how the regeneration all works, I like the basic underlying ideas and how it fits into the playstyle more.

I still don't like how your writing has evolved though lately. Your latest Warcraft 3 movesets have been more difficult for me to decipher and while others may like it, your tendency to describe moves in the terms of moves of other characters grates on me. I don't know off the top of my head how long it takes for Dedede to perform his Down Smash, for example, and having just something besides that to give me an idea of how much time it takes, like whether it's a fifth of a second or rather long, would be wonderful.

Regardless, this is a strong set from you. I wouldn't put it quite at Kel's level (who, like every set of yours I read, grows on me after the fact), but it's still pretty good.
 

Chris Lionheart

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
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Make Your Move
Nero

Bleh, it not only shows that this moveset was rushed out, what with the fact that half of his moves aren't affected by Exceed with little explanation, and he feels a lot like Dante that you posted just days ago, except with less creativity behind his moves.

Also, Exceed makes his 3rd Jab Combo absolutely broken. Adding 2% per hit to an 11 hit combo? That's 44% on a fast attack. He doesn't seem to have the same sort of creativity or tiered playstyle that Dante just barely had, it's really a weak offering from you as far as I see, Chris. It's little more than combo combo combo. The playstyle even says little other than that a smart Nero player will use combos and moves that set up combos. The Down Throw is also not only incredibly powerful from the examples you gave us, it almost implies that you weren't even taking this set seriously, with such a blatantly filler attack thrown in there as an attempt to make it less boring.
Seriously... seriously... you make me wake up to this crap? I should start ignoring your opinions, because they just keep getting more and more extreme to the point of pomposity.

Your right, it was thrown together quickly, but it was NOT rushed. I had no intentions of forcing an early release and took all the time I needed.

Exceed was most certainly not half-*****. There is a good reason behind only certain moves being effected by it. Most of the affected moves were affected in canon, so this adds to the in-characterness of the set, while I also included this "limitation" to avoid wasting those hard-earned exceed levels on less powerful attacks. Oooh... (up to) 44% on an escapable jab combo, oh dears, what are we going to do... Bowser's F-Smash does over 30%, while actually being able to kill, and it's surprisingly quick for a smash of it's power (compare it to Ike's F-Smash or D3's F-Smash and the difference in speed is obvious). Except there is a lot more to it than combo combo combo... you're just not good enough to see it. It's based around comboes, but it's just as much about setup as it is about the comboes themselves. The Down Throw is meant to be a slow type of throw that foes can often escape before it completes, mainly a high-percentage throw.

Out of 4 comments, only one person gives me so much as a single compliment? When did MYM'ers suddenly become such ***holes that a decent (if not good) set deserves nothing but complaints and insults?
 

Kholdstare

Nightmare Weaver
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,441
Kel's poor reception is borderline criminal.​
Maybe because a lot of people didn't actually like the set and maybe it wasn't as good as his other sets? We all have an opinion, you know, and it doesn't always has to be compliments.

SOut of 4 comments, only one person gives me so much as a single compliment? When did MYM'ers suddenly become such ***holes that a decent (if not good) set deserves nothing but complaints and insults?
See my reply to Wizzerd above. Also, Chris, you've been acting like a major ******* lately. If someone disagrees with you or even gives you a comment that you don't like ("I should start ignoring your opinions"), you act like a jerk. Maybe that's the reason people didn't like your set.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,911
meester bloodhoof
-Attack speed is up there as far as important stats go, yes. I'd have to say weight and recovery are pretty **** high as well.
This is why stats sections are obligatory.

-Reincarnation has the potential to be awesome.
(H)

-The specials show a fresh playstyle well worth exploring. So far meester bloodhoof would be a character I'd have fun with. (Something rare in sets these days) Although it would've been nice if you described how exactly the neutral special works in the overall playstyle. (I guess you'll get to that later)
The Neutral Special and Dsmash were originally swapped due to Dsmash being much more important, but I decided to make it the way it is now simply because they fit their button inputs better gameplay wise. Also, dsmash in the air would be (shock).

-Seems like bloodhoof has 2 playstyles going. His change-the-stage game and his wait-for-the-reincarnation-timer game.
Seems you’re catching on. (Smirk2)

-Down smash is pretty ridiculous. If it's free super-armor, I wouldn't care what percent I'm at to use it. The move doesn't last for too long though, so in that respect it's balanced alright. Although the close-to-invulnerable charge definitely helps with the reincarnation timer.
Yeah, was definitely scared about the dsmash, hence why I went on so long about how to fight against it. Originally there wasn’t any pre-charge lag on it either.

-The pummel mechanic was kinda hard to understand at first, but it oddly enough fits in with his playstyle.
Definitely one of my favorite parts of the set.

-Holy bananas, a final smash that's actually interesting.
When I got the idea for it I didn’t really want more stage alterations then the pits and didn’t have much idea for a balanced effect when he was in-between them, so I decided to make it the Final Smash. Blame the relevance and creativity on Doppelori.

So this is a solid set, Warlord. The pit playstyle is interesting, although I wish reincarnation could've played just a teensy bigger role throughout, because it seems the slopes got a tad more spotlight. Overall though, it's an interesting diversion and it definitely has some gems snuck in throughout. Is it better than Kel? I can't say, but they're both good in their own right.
The main thing that made me feel at home with the spotlight Reincarnation got was how much it affected his game (See the playstyle section) and how the Reincarnation and pits are constantly complementing each other (The grab-game is again one of the better examples). Perfectly fine if he’s not better then Kel, (Still my personal favorite, though I of course still love Cairne) and he seems to be more liked then I thought anyway.

Cairne

After reading that abomination Kel, I honestly thought that maybe you had lost your mind, and a considerable amount of your talent, but Cairne manages to prove me wrong.
. . .We know our stances on this issue so there’s really no point discussing it.

Cairne could possibly be this MYM's Sloth, as it combines very simple, but ingeniously creative moves with a very clear playstyle and a certain amount of smash viability.
Being compared to Sloth positively is quite the complement! Many thanks.

First off, I'll address the rather controversial mechanic. While this is definitely not a make or break for this set, it does have its ups and downs. First off, it is a clever way to shape Cairne's playstyle into something innately defensive (despite not being able to camp for ****). On the other hand, it makes Cairne naturally broken in matches with less than 3 stocks and naturally underpowered in matches with more than 3 stocks (especially in 5, 7, 11, etc. stock matches). You also fail to identify what happens in Time matches and Coin matches. While these are not competitive match types, this does have a relevance to some casual play.
I agree whole heartedly that Reincarnation really isn’t balanced outside for standard competitive play, but it’s not like he can’t function at all in these game types and because those game types are un-competitive by nature there’s really no point in trying to balance him for them.

The true thing that makes this match shine is the pit playstyle. While I can draw some similarities to Sloth and his "hiding hole", Cairne focuses on the idea, and it is much more elaborate in his case. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Cairne revolves around his pits to the point of being screwed without them. It is all very brilliant and works out surprisingly well on non-moving stages.
The one place in casual play he’s rather unsuited for is moving stages, though that’s a common issue with stage manipulation in general. Thanks for the praise. (H)

One bad thing I noticed about the set is that the Neutral Special and Bair might be a little bit redundant. It wouldn't be difficult to incorporate the benefit from the Bair into the Neutral Special if done properly. It's far from a big complaint though.
Now that I think about it I could definitely see that working, but I was rather straggling for button inputs and having to do another aerial would be pretty scary. That, and Cairne needed some actual inputs to lose from throwing his axe away. He used it little enough as is.

My complaints on the set are mostly trivial, because that's really all I can do with such a solid work. Really... you've outdone most of the sets you've made up to this point, with one of the only real exceptions being Sloth.
(H)(H)(H)

Also, Mewtwo would kick his ***.
Apparently not according to DM.

Cairne

Preety good set. Reincarnation is a really innovative mechanic and it's surprising how much it actually shaped his playstyle instead of being a gimmick. It's also surprising how he's actually one of the best balanced MYM sets with that mechanic, judging from his matchups at least. Though was it really necessary to have such specific MU ratios? Sheesh, intervals of 5 already annoy to me to some extent, but when you have a character with a 57.856 chance of winning, yeah...
Nice to see that somebody actually likes the mechanic. I certainly wouldn’t of done it as a creativity gimmick – I had an idea for that mechanic a good 3 weeks or so before I started the set and it’s what ultimately made me make him, it making him shift his playstyle with different stocks. It’s what made this set happen.

Somebody actually acknowledges Cairne’s 16 MUs! Who knew? The specific ratios have to do with me getting better understanding of match-ups and getting more experience with them, really. Trust me when I say I think out the numbers as I write the match-up. When there are enough reasons for something to go either way in a ratio of 5, I just compromise and put it in the middle.

Good amount of creativity for such a character with a simple fighting-style. It's always nice to see characters who don't have a ton of "natural potential" end up with really interesting and fitting moves. Same for the playstyle.
Indeed. As Rool said in the chat, restrictions seem to breed creativity.

Cairne

I was saying in the xat yesterday that Cairne had a few too many components to his playstyle to fit together perfectly, but on a second read he comes together much better and you were right in that many of your most successful sets were dual-layered anyway. The stalling and the pit-making both complement each other very nicely as a part of his well-done playstyle.​


(H)

Reincarnation was very tough to get a handle on at first, and admittedly your new style of detail makes things occasionally difficult to understand. However, I really do like how much briefer it makes it, and it's pretty much the same level as Kel - complaining about it would be hypocritical when Kel got such criminally bad reception.
I’d like to see just what my new style of detail is. It’s not like I consciously change up my writing style/detail, hence the Count. Everything sort of just. . .Happens. (H) @ Kel. He seems to be somewhat of a (Though probably not as large) slow burner like Dingodile.

You've quite easily created a character who has a stall-then-fall they can actually use, which is really an unexplored area seeing as all others in Brawl/most of MYM are useless or irrelevant. The stage sinking, again, is a unique concept but very much unexplored.
Definitely guilty of creating a lot of those stall then falls. Sloth, Dingodile, Morton, Bald Bull, Bear Hugger, Sandman. . .

Cairne's definitely a great set from you, anyway. Maybe not quite as good as Kel, but as I've said many, many times, Kel's poor reception is borderline criminal.
Sounds pretty much identical to what I think of both sets. Won’t Rool be thrilled.

Cairne Bloodhoof

The reincarnation mechanic is quite interesting, but I'm not at all convinced it approaches balance. Stalling isn't nearly as hard as you seem to make it out to be; with powershielding, rolls, spotdodges, and ledgestalling already part of the game, you really didn't have to give him access to temporary Super Armor, attacks that push enemies away, and the ability to stall in the air almost indefinitely with his bair and USpecial in order to let him survive long enough to use his regeneration. I also find your insistence not to spam the USpecial so you can use it to recovery later very unconvincing since he can recovery with these two moves no matter what. Not to mention he can camp in his pit where it'll be harder to KO him and use his NSpecial or Grab to make himself nigh unapproachable, especially with his DSmash on. I also find it nearly unforgivable that on such a key move, you say nothing more to describe its opening pre-charge lag than 'a bit'. Really, that's so helpful for me to understand the size of the window opponents have to KO him with a non-grabbing move.[/quote]

I considered including his shield, dodges, and situationals just to make them horrible to show that he couldn’t stall at all in the traditional manners that anybody can. I was wondering as I made the set if he could survive at all over the course of 2 minutes, which is really an eternity in Brawl.

On recovery, Cairne generally won’t have enough time to use the bair to refresh War Stomp and get momentum when he’s knocked off-stage unless he was knocked at a diagonally upward angle, and then he has fair for horizontal recovery anyway, so. . .As for the infinite aerial stalling, we went over that in the chat. If Cairne doesn’t use another move immediately after Up Special, his fall speed increases, thus he either has to come down or go off the top blast zone.

Dsmash is definitely something that can be attacked for questionable balance, and yes I should’ve been more specific about the pre-charge lag. Still, I went over that he doesn’t have to KO with a throw. Just use a weak uthrow to send him into the air and finish him with an aerial.

The pit mechanic is somewhat interesting, and it makes the smooth two-tier playstyle and offense-defense fusion you seem to be all about these days well. I've never really been able to get on board with terrain manipulation mechanics, although I did, admittedly, put even the most ambitious terrain manipulation to shame with Darkrai and Mewtwo's Final Smashes. Really though, the pit is self-consistent and embedded deep enough into the set that I really can't help but like the way you've pulled it off. He has various ways of forcing the opponent into the pit and trying to keep them there, although I find it strange that while the rest of his playstyle seems to want him to be outside or above the pit and the opponent inside, his key KO move Up Smash wants him to be in the pit, attacking an opponent diagonally in front of him. That's a relatively small nitpick though.
I wanted to be fairly tame with my stage manipulation in this set and just focus entirely on the pit rather then ****** the entire stage, hence why the totems are the final smash. Anyway, glad you like it. You seem to of confused fsmash and usmash slightly. Fsmash still relies on pits to position the foe properly to hit with the sweetspot, while usmash wants him to be on higher ground to KO. I’ll admit that usmash doesn’t exactly flow, I mainly just wanted a way to give him a fairly easy to land KO move without overpowering it.

I also liked how you really fused offense and defense, and how each one of his stocks plays out in a standard match as he switches from set-up to defense to offense. Even if I don't agree with the exact numbers of how the regeneration all works, I like the basic underlying ideas and how it fits into the playstyle more.
Even if his stalling proved to be too great when actually put in-game, the set is easy enough to nerf without taking away anything from the core. Just force him to stall longer by making the Reincarnation time longer. All in the numbers.

I still don't like how your writing has evolved though lately. Your latest Warcraft 3 movesets have been more difficult for me to decipher and while others may like it, your tendency to describe moves in the terms of moves of other characters grates on me. I don't know off the top of my head how long it takes for Dedede to perform his Down Smash, for example, and having just something besides that to give me an idea of how much time it takes, like whether it's a fifth of a second or rather long, would be wonderful.
I’ve been doing move comparisons for a long, long time for lag. I have no idea how long a fifth of a second is in Smash. It has no meaning whatsoever to me (I don’t time how long moves take in Smash Bros.), hence why I have trouble grasping the lag on your sets. Most of the time it generally makes your moves seem to be faster then they are, while move comparisons help me to actually picture the lag in Smash without a second thought. Kel’Thuzad’s move comparisons in his standards are much more of an extreme of this, Cairne’s is nothing new. If this is also what Wizzerd is talking about I find this extremely ironic, as he was the one who pushed me into doing this in the first place due to my old terms for lag being much too vague.

Regardless, this is a strong set from you. I wouldn't put it quite at Kel's level (who, like every set of yours I read, grows on me after the fact), but it's still pretty good.
(H) @ Kel’Thuzad

Darth Meanie tears apart everything, including sets he likes. After picking apart Cairne’s balance for a few paragraphs he ultimately says it’s “a strong set from me”. Don’t take it too personally.

Maybe because a lot of people didn't actually like the set and maybe it wasn't as good as his other sets? We all have an opinion, you know, and it doesn't always has to be compliments.
MT and Lionheart don’t like it. DM (Who likes it) and Katapultar’s standard negative commentary made it seem received more poorly then it actually was. In any case, it’s certainly on the level of my other MYM 7 sets, and if everything’s going to be instantly excused for not being Sloth then I don’t see why I’m making sets at all. This is MYM 7, not 6. I’m not competing against Sloth, I’m competing against Strangelove, Doppelori, Macho Man, Subaru and the like. Outside Lionheart, the only reason people really give for disliking it was detail, primairily a single left out sentence on Mana Shield.
 

Chris Lionheart

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
2,076
Location
Make Your Move
See my reply to Wizzerd above. Also, Chris, you've been acting like a major ******* lately. If someone disagrees with you or even gives you a comment that you don't like ("I should start ignoring your opinions"), you act like a jerk. Maybe that's the reason people didn't like your set.
Well, I'm SORRY if I wake up at 5 in the morning feeling awfully sick and knowing that I still have to go to school. I check the thread to see what's going on, only to be incessantly bashed by someone without half my experience. I was already painfully aware that Nero had been a failed work, much like Thrall, which DM should have also realized by the previous commentary, but he had to go and put salt in the wound. Thanks.

And Khold, your opinion does not, has never, and will never matter to me, because you've always been little more than a troll with a personal grudge against me. In fact... you don't even exist. The real you, a girl named Scy, was abducted by aliens and replaced by you, her gender-changed evil clone.

And you're right. I'm really cold and enjoy being a jerk sometimes. Atleast I have good reasons for being as such. Do you?
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,283
Location
Australia
just adding in another post

Katapultar’s standard negative commentary
Good point actually, Im just getting to the point where Im nitpicking small things at sets. It's just I kind of find it hard to judge a set to the point if "It's a runner-up in the competition" or "average attempt". In the past, I used to praise a set that used a lot of images because to me it showed the effort one placed into a set, such as Bowser Jr, Richard and Raiden in MYM5. I guess I shouldn't judge a set overall and just start praising a set for more of it's aspects.

I was already painfully aware that Nero had been a failed work, much like Thrall,
Nero isn't fail, and Thrall's a great set whom unfortunatley got left behind undeservingly by the rest of the MYM6 that was to come. Im pretty sure that's what MUs are partially there for.

Perhaps it's not a problem right now, but the thread could get a small speed-up if people started positing their sets half-way through one page, which COULD mean half-reception for them in thread (A max of 14 posts of reception isn't really that neccesary, don't you think. Besides, some of it can sometimes just be rambling, like this post and a few above that aren't set comments). It's not a bad idea in my eyes, but the problem is: what if a strong recieved MYMer set is posted on a new page, and then half-way a less recieved MYMer set is posted, but totally ignored. Im just saying that people wanting a new page for their set; only posting during that time (mostly or sometimes) is partially causing the thread to slow. Just expressing this since it's been about 2 days since a new set was posted, and I have Hunter J just about almost ready.
 

Junahu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
899
Location
Shropshire Slasher
Cairne: Like many other commenters, I found the resurrection played second fiddle to the ideas created by pits and slopes. This is probably the first ever set to acknowledge curved terrain (even the likes of Zant dealt exclusively in flat surfaces), though most of the uses you made of it were simple "does something cool on sloped terrain" clauses. Still, it's a good, strong theme.

It's difficult to say the same of resurrection, the special mechanic everyone else likes to complain about too. It comes across as being narrowminded, and in particular it makes an absolute mockery of the Single Player modes. SSE, Allstar and MultiMan/BossBattles give Cairne an unfair advantage over the other characters. For SSE, Cairne is essentially invincible. In Allstar and BossBattles, Cairne can die in EVERY fight without penalty. Even in Classic mode resurrection helps buffer his losses. I know I'm a hypocrite (taking Doppelori into Co-op SSE would annihilate all of those mob groups) but it's still important to stay aware of these things.

I also believe Up-Special and Down-Air should have been combined (i.e. use Up-Special outside of a pit to make it leap up with KO properties), because using the Down-Air without a pit would make no physical sense whatsoever. It doesn't help that it's also a clone of a Special that differentiates itself with extra effects.

...and just to clarify, I do like this set, as I like most of your sets, though I think I like Kel more right now.

And thanks for making a Final Smash that wasn't just "blow up anyone whose name starts with a 'D'"


@arguement: Let's just stop before Chris ends up being Spadefox'd out of MYM


Edit: The days where top posting was nccessary have long been reduced to relics of the past. It's true that some pages end up clogged with so many sets that only one or two get recognition, but in general, that has more to do with sets being posted hours apart rather than their being on the same page. I think 2 days is more than enough time to wait before posting a new set.
And everyone knows the reason why they aren't posting as frequently on some pages or commenting on certain sets, they're simply too ashamed to admit it.
 

Chris Lionheart

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
2,076
Location
Make Your Move
@arguement: Let's just stop before Chris ends up being Spadefox'd out of MYM
Are you kidding? If I get angry, I'm not leaving... I'm going to stay and get even. If I didn't leave after the whole Warlord incident back in MYM3 and 4.... what the Hell makes you think I'ld leave because of a troll and a critic?


And no... I'm not going to let Nero's bad reception keep me down. I'm just going to show everyone up with Ezio Auditore de Firenze.

 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,283
Location
Australia
Abra's an actual moveset.. better comment on him.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9076391&postcount=236
This right here is the single post for Abra. You could perhaps have used this instead of the above link for the whole page. I know what you were trying to do with the URL link, and it was a very clever idea.

Abra seems to be a very complicated character, seeing as his Specials such as Substitute and whatever can link in with his basic attacking scheme. (Noooo, you used a idea I had for a D-air for yours! But... mines different, sweet approaching you know).

Abra's got some good ideas, though it's just a bit mind boggling to try and think of how the Specials can go together with the Non-Specials. Then again, it's not neccesarily designed for that. Though when I think about it, Abra's Up-Special is the only thing that really allows you to teleport such a great distance, and even that has lag to it so you can't just attack right out of it. One may require to place it right in the middle of the stage, but of course foes will probably want to hit you off-stage as far away as possible so they may take advantage of your lag. I don't even think mind tricks will work. You either get back to the spot or die.

Abra's a mindgame character, but I don't think it would be hellish to fight against him. You get 1 hit on him and he suffers.

I have to thank you as well since your way of explaining some of the teleportation gimmicks have helped me to explain the ones I have in store even better. Teleportation is a very interesting concept in Brawl, and there's thousands of ways to create a playstyle out of it in Brawl. LOTS indeed.

Cool set.
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,294
Location
Hippo Island
Abra

Whee, teleportation! I thoughrouly enjoyed all of the various teleport moves, and even if they just ended up with simple punches and kicks it doesn't matter since IT'S #@&*^ TELEPORTATION! The double-tap mechanic was an ingenious idea, effectivley giving Abra the option to either quickly teleport for movmenet or teleport+attack.

Abra makes for a very cool hit-and-run character, though he BADLY needs a damage buff. I don't care how many genuine mind-games he has, if he can't actually get much benefit from pulling them off he sucks, end of story. Considering even his gimping requires him to get the foe up to rediculous percents and he has no way of damage-racking, it's pretty much impossible for him to KO the enemy. This isn't difficult to fix at all, just raise the damage on most of his moves, so it's far from a deal-breaker, but still...

Besides being fun to play, Abra also sounds quite entertaining to watch. He's pretty much a Dragonball Z character without the charging scenes. Kinda scary that a pokemon makes a better DBZ moveset than all the DBZ characters.

So yeah, great moveset. One of my favorites in MYM7 so far to be precise (h).
 

flyinfilipino

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
4,319
Location
North Carolina
@Abra: So...much...teleporting...! *nosebleed*

Abra's a pretty unique set. If he were actually playable, I imagine he'd be pretty frustrating to play as and against. *nosebleeds* One of my favorite attacks is the Down Throw. It just kinda sticks out to me, for some reason. An issue though: regarding Substitute, does the camera behave differently than normal while the fake Abra is teleporting around? The camera zooms in on the player, which would make it obvious to the opponent if he/she was chasing a fake. Bah, who cares about such technicalities, the concept is still cool.

Overall, an interesting idea pulled off very well, Rool. :bee:
 

KingK.Rool

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
1,810
Abra's an actual moveset.. better comment on him.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9076391&postcount=236
This right here is the single post for Abra. You could perhaps have used this instead of the above link for the whole page. I know what you were trying to do with the URL link, and it was a very clever idea.
Yes indeed; it's really a pointless little organizational quirk, but we all know I'm a sucker for that kind of thing. Is there any character who more demands a separate post for his moveset than the one he was posted in?

Abra seems to be a very complicated character, seeing as his Specials such as Substitute and whatever can link in with his basic attacking scheme. (Noooo, you used a idea I had for a D-air for yours! But... mines different, sweet approaching you know).
Yep, he's a bit on the complex side. Compared to caterpie, certainly. ;)

Abra's got some good ideas, though it's just a bit mind boggling to try and think of how the Specials can go together with the Non-Specials. Then again, it's not neccesarily designed for that. Though when I think about it, Abra's Up-Special is the only thing that really allows you to teleport such a great distance, and even that has lag to it so you can't just attack right out of it. One may require to place it right in the middle of the stage, but of course foes will probably want to hit you off-stage as far away as possible so they may take advantage of your lag. I don't even think mind tricks will work. You either get back to the spot or die.

Abra's a mindgame character, but I don't think it would be hellish to fight against him. You get 1 hit on him and he suffers.
Yeah, you probably have a point, but then again, this is balance we're talking about here, right? Anyway, I figured that his FAir alone gave him enough horizontal recovery to keep him alive for an annoyingly long time.

I have to thank you as well since your way of explaining some of the teleportation gimmicks have helped me to explain the ones I have in store even better. Teleportation is a very interesting concept in Brawl, and there's thousands of ways to create a playstyle out of it in Brawl. LOTS indeed.

Cool set.
Thanks for the commentary, Katapultar!

Abra

Whee, teleportation! I thoughrouly enjoyed all of the various teleport moves, and even if they just ended up with simple punches and kicks it doesn't matter since IT'S #@&*^ TELEPORTATION! The double-tap mechanic was an ingenious idea, effectivley giving Abra the option to either quickly teleport for movmenet or teleport+attack.
Heh, I hoped you and Warlord would appreciate that, since it effectively lets him play in two different ways. Glad to hear it. :bee:

Abra makes for a very cool hit-and run character, though he BADLY needs a damage buff. I don't care how many genuine mind-games he has, if he can't actually get much benefit from pulling them off he sucks, end of story. Considering even his gimping requires him to get the foe up to rediculous percents and he has no way of damage-racking, it's pretty much impossible for him to KO the enemy. This isn't difficult to fix at all, just raise the damage on most of his moves, so it's far from a deal-breaker, but still...
I was so afraid that he was too hard to hit that I nuked his damage-racking capacity in exchange, but you're so right that I actually just went back and added 2-5% on every attack. That's how much I appreciate your comment: I actually went back and changed something! =O

Besides being fun to play, Abra also sounds quite entertaining to watch. He's pretty much a Dragonball Z character without the charging scenes. Kinda scary that a pokemon makes a better DBZ moveset than all the DBZ characters.
You know, that's exactly what I was thinking of when writing his Jab Combo, and during the whole moveset-making process I was imagining how cool he would look in an actual Brawl. Surprised that that shone through. ;)

So yeah, great moveset. One of my favorites in MYM7 so far to be precise (h).
Aww, shucks. Thanks for commenting, HR, and I'm glad you liked it so much!

@Abra: So...much...teleporting...! *nosebleed*

Abra's a pretty unique set. If he were actually playable, I imagine he'd be pretty frustrating to play as and against. *nosebleeds* One of my favorite attacks is the Down Throw. It just kinda sticks out to me, for some reason. An issue though: regarding Substitute, does the camera behave differently than normal while the fake Abra is teleporting around? The camera zooms in on the player, which would make it obvious to the opponent if he/she was chasing a fake. Bah, who cares about such technicalities, the concept is still cool.

Overall, an interesting idea pulled off very well, Rool. :bee:
Is that a Lost reference I sense? Another reason why I love you, filip. :bee:

Anyway, as to Substitute, I figure the camera would stay to capture both the real Abra and the copy. Never really thought of that, it's the kind of uber-logical point I'd expect Junahu to catch. Hmm.

Thanks, filip! I do hope agi doesn't mind me stealing what once was one of his planned movesets, but Abra just had so much potential, I couldn't resist! :embarrass
 

Frf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
83
Location
Memphis, TN
ohmygodohmygodohmygodabra
-Hmm, every move has teleportation of some sort? Cool stuff, it makes Abra interesting, that's for sure.
-I'm liking the stats. Sure, it's the same tried-and-true stats just with a different name, but it's actually kind of fitting to Abra.
-Blink is strange-but-brilliant.
-SO FREAKING CALLED THE UP SPECIAL. Anyway, mindgames. Fairly obvious that's what Abra's all about, but you put a nice spin on it.
-Missed a tag there on the forward smash. :p

Yes, yes, Abra is very different. Hell, there is no real category to PLACE him in, but the set in general feels very refreshing regardless. I can't say this set has flowed as well as past ones, Rool, with blink hardly being mentioned again until the end, and Afterimage just seems like more of a sitting duck than anything. Despite that, I love the move substitute and it gives Abra such a distinct playstyle that's actually....fun?!? I'd main him anyday, even though Abraberz would take years to truly master.

You've took the whole book on smash bros. teleportation, said "Screw that, those rules are boring!" and went on your merry way.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
I decided to do my top ranked sets in several little categories instead of in one massive post. After all, there's so many reasons why I like so many sets that I feel it only fair to divide them up. It doesn't look as neat as the other member's "Top Set" deals...but I think it gets to point across nicely. This is the first of many "MT's Top Sets" to come; writing style comes first. Some notable runners up were Gluttony by MasterWarlord, Dr. Strangelove by Wizzerd and of course Sakurai by TheSundanceKid.

MT’s Top Five: Writing Style

Number Five​

EXCEL
You claim this set did so well based on lulz like it’s a bad thing. I never thought it was a bad set at all and the friendly writing style you normally have is accompanied quite nicely by the random interjections by Excel. Series bias or not, I find this set an absolute blast to read; I don’t think it did well because it was off the wall random, I think it did well because the writing style made it a pleasure to read. It captures the character’s wackiness to a T and does so while making an entertaining set around the insanity.

Number Four​

VAPOREON​
Vaporeon is my blanket term for the Eeveelutions really; it’s my favorite Eeveelution both set and game wise as well as being the first posted, thus, Vaporeon (when it comes to writing style at least) covers the whole kit and kaboodle for me. What I think I like most about this set’s writing style is that it’s totally welcoming…but it’s blatantly smart too. It’s cleverly written but in such a way that it’s like you’re casually discussing the set with someone. In fact, casual sums it up perfectly. You’ve got good word choice and excellent flow (suiting for Vaporeon) but not once does it seem like your writing style is aimed at being superior to the reader or anything like that (if that makes any sense at all…). Basically, it’s a very friendly, inviting set, much like Excel. Unlike Excel however, it doesn’t play off of humor as much as it plays off the general calm it creates. Like I said, this trend is found in all the Eeveelutions really; Vaporeon has just always stuck out to me.

Number Three

ANONYMOUS​
But MT! -ANOTHER- set based purely on lulz? What’s wrong with that? If a set makes me laugh while reading it, I’m gonna enjoy it (unless of course I’m laughing at how bad it is…). Anon plays to Khold’s strengths really; it’s a hilarous set, While I could’ve easily substituted any of Khold’s sets (such as Dodongo, Axel or Kholdstare) for their humorous yet serious writing style, Anon has ALWAYS stuck out in my mind as one of the most flat out hysterical sets around. It’s weird too, I don’t even find memes that funny…it’s just the way he describes them, the way he makes the attacks sound is just too off the wall to NOT find funny. Regardless though, I could easily substitute any other Kholdstare set in this same exact spot with the same comments; his sets may be serious (as well as quality of course), but there’s always something in every one of Khold’s sets that makes me laugh.

Number Two​

THE ELVES
T’was the night before Christmas…okay, I’m gonna leave the rhyming to the professionals and just comment on the set. Simply put, The Elves are a masterpiece when it comes to presentation and writing style. The concept is so simple yet so perfectly done…it’s a moveset in story form but without all the button commands and balance stuff to bog it down and make it clunky. I know I tease quite a bit about balance, but I’m actually GLAD this set is so unorthodox; had you included button commands and balance factoids you would’ve entirely altered the finished product. And that’s just going on about the set! The story itself is brilliant, the characters (despite it being only a page long story) are fleshed out and each have their own unique personality and the set itself just screams personal voice and own humor. It’s so perfectly done I can’t help but love it, even if it’s hard to exactly visualize it as a set.

Number One​

WISPA
You have to be on the top of your game to surpass The Elves…or rather, you have to be on the top of your game three MYM’s earlier. That being said, I like to think I know a bit about potential-less characters; a girl who does nothing but vomit blood, a cow, a depressed block of cheese? Sure there’s those…and then there’s Wispa. Wispa is…Wispa’s a candy bar for crying out loud! How Junahu managed to make a moveset for a bloody candy bar even boggles my mind. How he managed to make it so **** funny as well makes it all the better. Actually giving Wispa a personality (and the female gender no less), constantly poking fun at the fact that you ARE just making a set for a candy bar and making the moveset revolve around well…things a candy bar COULD do are just small examples of the brilliant writing style on display here. It’s a hilarious read without a doubt…hell, any set with the term “choco-chi” is worthy of mention. This is the definition of inviting, hilarious and just plain amazing writing style and it truly is an honor to have Negative Man as part of the Wispa club. Also, I loved Kinder Eggs as a kid and agree wholeheartedly that the capsule was absolute hell to get open. Fortunately I made a nice little collection of winter sports penguin figurines thanks to those…

And of course a comment for Abra in the Recap! ;D
 

Hyper_Ridley

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,294
Location
Hippo Island
Chat gave me the OK to post, but you had better get around to Abra too!

So, there's this "Remix" movement going on where me take bad movesets and make them better. Hmmmm, this sounds like a great idea! I know just the set to improve!


























...wait for it...

























SPADEFOX REMIX​

MWAHAHAHAH! *Thunder and lightning*


Here, take a gander at the original moveset so you can better appreciate how this new one has more going for it than headers and extras. And use that see his backstory and whatnot, I don't feel like typing it out and nobody cares about my OC's story anyways besides myself (h).

To get us on the same page, Spadefox actually DOES wield his scythe normally in this new moveset. In fact, it's perhaps the most vital tool in his arsenal this time around...

STATS
No more stupid /10 stats. No more paragraphs mashed with the intro. Wheeee

Movement Speed: Good. Dash is comparable to the speed of Fox Mcloud (totally not on purpose, nope nope)

Traction: Excellent

First Jump: Good. Comparable to Yoshi

Midar Jump: Short. Comparable to Meta Knight. Total of 3 midair jumps and an easily controlled glide.

Aerial Control: Good

Fall Speed: Above average.

Size: Similar height to Ganondorf but notably thinner. Wings and tentacles do not have hurtboxes normally.

Weight: Detestable. Barely heavier than Jigglypuff.

Special Feature: Tentacle Priority [TV ad voice]As seen in the original moveset![/TV ad voice]
When Spadefox uses his tentacles in an attack, they can be destroyed by any other hitbox but this will not damage Spade himself. He will simply sprout a new one (isn’t being made of shadows fun?) to take its place. This does end the attack but Spade experiences hardly any lag besides a pitifully low amount of hitstun.


SPECIALS​
Wizzerd: The specials are first this time! #liquidblast​

Neutral Special: Scythe Mind
Spadefox holds out his left hand as he lets go of his scythe. The scythe then begins to spin around while lying horizontally in the air, floating. Spade continues to hold out his hand as you direct his scythe through the air with the control stick (stopping in place is possible). It moves at a somewhat sluggish pace and cannot go through solid walls. The scythe is a naturally disjointed hitbox that deals 2% with flinching knockback, hitting 5 times in a second. Each time an enemy is hit with the scythe their DI increases temporarily so this cannot infinite, though by tracking the enemy with the scythe you can still rack up some nice damage. Spade spreads his wings if he performs this move in the air, halving his fall speed. There is below average lag to start the move.

While the scythe is moving around, you can press the Special Attack Button to teleport the scythe back into Spade’s hand with average lag. This is also what happens if he is interrupted performing this move, though the scythe returns to him during his hurt animation. Pressing the Attack Button will have Spade teleport to the scythe over .3 seconds. Once he reappears he will instantly perform a horizontal slash with the scythe that deals 14% and horizontal knockback on a low trajectory that KOs at 90%. This has average end lag, but when Spade swings his scythe with such force that it causes a burst of wind to emit along the ground on both sides, quickly shoving enemies back as far as 1 Battlefield drop-through. The wind disappears at the edge of platforms so it can't be used for an easy gimp.

Finally, you may press the Shield Button for Spade to point downwards as the scythe points straight up and plummets straight down into the ground. This has below average end lag, and deals 10% with a moderate spike. The scythe remains sticking into the ground upon landing, giving the move low end lag as Spade is controllable even without his scythe in his possession. All of Spade’s other moves that use the scythe are changed when the scythe is stuck to the ground, though if he performs this move again the scythe will lift off the ground and be controllable from that point. If the scythe ends up falling into a pit, it will teleport back into Spade’s hand 5 seconds later, during which time some moves are unusable that require the scythe. If you want to get Spade's scythe back, you can also stand next to it and press down+grab, which will have him pluck the scythe off the ground with below average lag. In training mode there will be little icons over the scythe which tell you how to pick it up like this.

Side Special: Mitternacht
Spadefox clenches his hands into fists and grits his teeth as shadowy energy begins to build up on his back over .5 seconds. After this, we can hear the sound of glass shattering, and the energy on his back as changed to a thin layer of black smoke. Oh dear, according to the original moveset, Spadefox’s tentacles could go into portals of darkness and reappear elsewhere, and this smoke is on his back…so where are the tentacles?

You won’t have to look any further once an opponent takes high knockback that might KO them, as the camera zooming out will reveal that there are innumerable tentacles wriggling about around the edges of the screen. If an opponent is hit into them, the tentacles will immediately grab them and pull them into the darkness, instantly KOing them, so this move essentially shrinks the blast zones of the stage. If Spadefox is hit into the tentacles, they will catch him and gently toss him back towards the stage, resetting his midair jumps in the process. This makes it impossible to KO Spade without some sort of instant KO move like The Count’s grab, but the opponent isn’t KO’d terribly earlier, the tentacles only just barely reach onto the screen…

…at least when the move is initiated. Once Spade has the tentacles implanted on the stage boundaries, they are left there permanently until he retracts them by inputting for this move as a smash input. While the tentacles are implanted his other tentacle-based moves are replaced with pretty simple melee attacks that will be mentioned in due time. What you CAN do with the tentacles during this time, is perform this move again and hold the Special Attack Button for Spade to concentrate as the tentacles begin to creep closer and closer to the center of the stage. It takes 10 seconds for the tentacles to cover 75% of the stage, and while Spade’s appendages consume the stage what’s still visible starts to be covered in a grainy, murky graphical effect that becomes more pronounced as the opponents have less room to escape. 75% of the stage is covered, Spade must concentrate for 4 seconds without interruption for the tentacles to suddenly close over the remainder of the stage, which naturally KOs the opponents with no hope of escape.

While you might think you should always be using this move every chance you get to have huge blast-zones with no chance of being KOd yourself, it isn’t quite so one-sided. You see, in order Spadefox uses his own essence in order to fuel his ever-growing tentacles. As you continue to expand your influence over the stage, Spade’s clothing starts to tatter and his skin begins to dissolve into black mist as he gives over more and more of himself to this attack. This also causes his movement speed and jumps to decrease. When you reach 75% consumption of the stage, Spade is nothing more than a skeleton with glowing eye sockets, he can only perform a single jump with his bony wings, and his walk is a limp with Jigglypuff’s speed. While you still can’t be KO’d traditionally, once Spade activates this attack the strain of keeping it up renders him vulnerable to stamina-style KOs. With the attack just activated Spade will be destroyed upon reaching 130%. With 75% of the stage under Spade’s control, his skeletal body is fragile enough to be taken out at a mere 60%! If Spade is already at dying damage when he activates this move, he will be KOd the next time he takes a hit. Considering his mobility decreases as he takes over more of the screen, this is the absolute pinnacle of high-risk/high-reward moves.

Up Special: Lost on the Path
Spadefox extends a single tentacle upwards at the rate of Charizard’s dash. He will keep extending it until it hits a platform, or until you release the Attack Button. There is below average startup lag to the move but ending the move early has average end lag. During the startup lag if you quickly press the direction on the Control Stick you can adjust the direction the tentacle moves in, in full 360 degrees around our demon wolf. Spade hovers and stops his aerial movement while this part of the attack is going on.

If the tentacle makes contact with a drop-through platform or the top or side of a solid platform, it latches on and Spade remains suspended at that point. Now, he can press the Attack Button to reach out with another tentacle in a direction you indicate, defaulting to forwards. Hit another piece of ground and now the tentacle remains stuck in that one too! Now you can use the control stick to teleport between the connection points and continue onwards to make more and more, with up to 10 of these on the stage at once! The tentacles are invincible once they stick to the stage, but if Spade takes damage at any point during this move, all of them disappear in a puff of smoke.

Upon making a smash-input during this phase of the attack, Spade snaps his fingers with the same lag as Snake activating a C4, causing every single one of his tentacle zip-lines to explode in a burst of darkness, dealing 12% and knockback that KOs at 130%. If you can set-up a lot of these, you can really box in your opponent and make things hectic when you decide to send it all to hell. If you want to cancel out of the move early, press the Shield Button and all the tentacles disappear as if nothing happened (detonating them also takes Spade out of the move). Pressing the Special Move button allows Spade to use his actual Neutral Special while this is all going on, so he isn’t defenseless.

If you have Mitternacht active when you input for this move, Spade performs a simple horizontal leap with his claws out-stretched. He goes as far as Donkey Kong's Up-B and as high as Luigi's first jump before entering free-fall. Spade's claws are hitboxes with low priority (For the record, all of Spade's claw attacks generally have low priority as the hitbox of his hand/claws matches up exactly with the hurtbox) but deal a respectable 12% with set vertical knockback as high as Falco's first jump. Below average startup and end lag.

Down Special: Guard Dog of Hades
Spade claps his hands together as a faint circle of dark energy radiates from his scythe, with the radius of one Battlefield drop-through platform. If Spade is in the range of this circle, a black spiky chain forms between the scythe and the back of Spade’s neck, connecting them. The clap happens very quickly, as does the energy wave to connect Spade to his weapon. Upon a successful connection, blue flames start to envelop Spades’ body, the chain, and the scythe, and Spade glances at his hands for a moment as he extends his claws. If Spade is already holding his scythe this is naturally a guaranteed connection as he sticks his scythe into the ground while doing so.

As long as Spade and his scythe retain their link, he only has a single jump in this mode and no glide (we can’t have doggy flying away from his post can we?). In fact, he is left with a heavily shrunken moveset while maintaining a bond to the scythe; He can only use his jab, dtilt (all tilt inputs result in this move), dash attack, dsmash (all smash inputs will do it) and bair (all aerial inputs do it), and all of these moves will be their alternate claw-based variations. However, his claws are extended to be 1.3 times their normal length, and the blue fire around them actually adds to their hitbox (and is disjointed), giving them some much-needed priority. Spade is constrained to the area he would be in range to actually connect with the scythe in the first place, and the connection will break if he is hit out of range. Normally his knockback will come to a halt as the chain reaches it limit, but if he takes as much as knockback as say, Mario’s Fsmash at 70%, it’ll snap and end the move.

Now why can’t the enemy just run away if Spade is confined to a smaller area? Because he still has an actual input with his Special Move button, silly! First, you can simply make the input for this move again, which causes the chain and fire to disappear as the scythe warps into Spade’s hands. This takes .25 seconds, during which time Spade has super-armor. If you perform any other Special Move input, Spadefox rears his head back with a shrill howl that makes the entire screen look like cracked glass for a moment except for the area he can remain within. Any enemies caught in the attack take 10% with a paralyzer-stun, and the move deals decent damage to shields and cannot be dodged. This has low end lag, and high but cancelable startup lag. Forget pitiful telegraphed projectiles, just cover the entire freaking screen in an attack and your opponent has no choice but to approach!


*pants* Still with me here? Good, now we can FINALLY move past the specials and onto the abnormals. (h)

STANDARDS​
Now with more viable options than FTilt!​

Jab: Fishing for Sinners
Spadefox whips one tentacle forwards as far as a drop-through platform on Battlefield. This has average startup lag and deals a minor 4% with flinching knockback. The fun part is when you press the Attack Button a second time, which causes the tentacle to quickly retract while curling into the foreground. This deals 4% and trips any enemies in range while pulling them towards Spade. It has below average end lag so Spade can have oodles of fun taking advantage of his victim.

When this move is performed with the Side-Special active, Spade performs a single slash with his right hand, dealing 7% with knockback and stun comparable to Ganon’s jab, though instead of electrical effects, the attack has a darkness attribute. The attack is quick and has okay range.

Forward Tilt: The Fabric of Space
Spade lets go of his scythe and swings his left hand forwards, which causes the scythe to dart forwards as far as ½ of battlefield at a decent speed, blade-first. Any enemies who make contact with the scythe’s head take 9% and are dragged along to the end of the weapon’s flight path. At the end of the path, Spadefox pantomimes a horizontal weapon swing, which causes the scythe to perform the actual motion of the weapon. This deals 7% and then the scythe teleports back into Spade’s hand. Below average startup lag, average end lag.

If the scythe is on the stage via Neutral-Special, this input has Spade make a “come here” motion, calling his scythe to return to him. Rather than simply teleport to him, the scythe literally cuts a path through the air as it flies towards Spade at a high speed, going through all enemies and walls in its way. A purple scratch on the screen is left from its flight-path, which lasts for 1 second and is a disjointed hitbox, dealing 6% and flinching knockback. The scythe itself deals 9% and flinching knockback as it darts for its master. Average startup lag, below average end lag.

Down Tilt: Never saw it Coming
Spade sticks a tentacle into the ground and it starts to creep through the platform, appearing as nothing more than a shadow extending from Spade. As long as you hold the attack button the tentacle will continue to reach out until the button is released or it reaches the end of the platform. When that happens, the tentacle will immediately shoot out from the ground, reaching as high as Marth is tall and dealing 8% with set vertical knockback as high as twice Bowser’s height.

The tentacle will linger in the area for .3 seconds after striking, during which time it has no hitbox but can still be destroyed. During this time, you may press the attack button for Spade to sink into the ground, becoming a shadow himself, and move to the location of the tentacle at an extremely fast speed, near instantly in fact. Spade cannot do this if the tentacle is destroyed. If you don’t teleport the tentacle will simply retract into the ground, and in either case there is low end lag. There is also low startup lag to the initial attack. Both the tentacle and Spade himself are invincible when in the ground except against a move that specifically affects the ground, in which case Spade and/or his tentacle will be knocked out the ground on the spot.

If Spade is using his Side-Special when this input is performed, then he’ll pull back one hand before lunging forwards on a low trajectory as far ¼ of battlefield while slashing with his claws. There is average startup lag as Spade prepares for the move, but the actual lunge occurs very quickly and has low end lag. His claws deal a respectable 12% with knockback that KOs at 140%, darkness attribute. If he goes off the stage he will regain control in the air.

Up Tilt: Sinister Rising
With low startup lag, Spade swings his scythe upwards in a semi-circle in front of himself, dealing 7% with vertical knockback that KOs at 190%. There is below average end lag to this, or you may press the attack button a second time for Spade to swing his scythe back down, dealing 6% and weak set forwards knockback as far as ¼ of battlefield. This part also has below average end lag.

If this input is performed with Spade’s scythe implanted in the ground, Spade performs an uppercut motion with one hand, causing his weapon to fly straight up at the speed of Fox’s blaster. It deals 8% with flinching knockback as it flies all the way to the top blast zone (or the tentacles from the side-special) or a ceiling. After a brief moment, Spade motions downwards, causing the scythe to plummet back down, dealing the same damage as it did the way up. Upon hitting a platform (not necessarily its starting point) it will implant itself into it while the force of impact creates a burst of dark energy to emit from the ground the size of Mario, dealing 12% and vertical knockback that KOs at 130%, and has a darkness attribute. Below average startup and end lag.

Dash Attack: No Escaping the Past
Spade anchors 2 tentacles into the ground as he continues dashing forwards. He will continue dashing while you hold the attack button, and upon release he will kick straight out similarly to Ganondorf’s FTilt while quickly pulling himself back to his starting point with his tentacles. His kick deals 12% with horizontal knockback that KOs at 135%, darkness attribute. Low startup lag and average end lag for the entire move. If an enemy destroys his tentacles while he is in the middle of this attack Spade will auto-trip. If Spade runs off the platform, jumps, or otherwise stops dashing the move cancels itself.

With the Side-Special active, Spadefox simply performs the kick on its own. This severely hurts it as the tentacles could pull Spade out of harm’s way if he whiffed, but now the move is fully punishable.

SMASH ATTACKS
Sorry, no more cigarette moves. Spade makes up for this by having lots of smoke-based stuff throughout his moveset (h)​

Forward Smash: Around the World
Spade gives his scythe a mighty underhanded swing, causing it to fly forwards as fast as Fox’s blaster. How far does it travel? Why, it goes all the way to the end of the stage…and then it loops around and returns to Spade from the other side of the screen! It deals 13-26% and set knockback as far as 2/3 of Battlefield, and the scythe will even phase through walls and such to complete its journey. While the move has below average startup and end lag, Spade is immobile for the duration of the move, so if he misses the sheer time it takes for his scythe to return is more than enough to punish him.

If the scythe is planted on the stage, Spade will mimic the normal motion as the scythe performs the attack from its current location. If Spade happens to be in the path of the scythe, he will catch it mid-flight and end the move. If the omnipresent Side-Special is in play, the Scythe will be absorbed into the tentacles and instantly appear on the other side like normal, thereby cutting down the duration of the attack. Overall, this a fun move to toy around with, and an excellent addition to Spade’s zoning game.

Down Smash: Tentacle Constriction
Spade raises 4 tentacles into the air as they take on a silver hue, and then he plunges them into the ground. A moment later, they emerge around the nearest enemy character (summons are ignored) and tightly wrap around them, holding them in place.

While the tentacles have grab-hitboxes they still obey tentacle priority and therefore can be dispelled with basic attacks, though they can still override shields like a regular grab. On the bright side, they can even grab airborne foes by emerging from portals in the sky. Once you catch your prey, Spade begins to squeeze the life out of them, dealing 2% for every .2 seconds an enemy is in your grasp. The time it takes to break free depends on charge, from the same of a regular grab to 1.3x as strong. This move has as much as startup lag as Ganon’s FSmash but below average end lag if you miss. It’s best used on enemies who like to remain still in order to force them to change their position.

When harnessing the power of Mitternacht, this attack is replaced with a harsh sideways claw-strike. This has below average startup and end lag and deals 12-24% with knockback that KOs at 130-80% and a darkness attribute. The reason why this move isn’t “ZOMG get rid of the tentacles to use this!” is that it has the typical poor priority of Spade's claw attacks and the range is only average.

Up Smash: Pitch-Black Light
Spade holds out his free hand as some shadowy substance flows from his hand into a neat compact black ball in his palm. After charging up the ball for .5 seconds, he fires it straight ahead, though the ball will home in on the nearest enemy with high precision. The ball is as large as a Smoke Ball item and moves as fast as a shot from Wolf’s blaster. It has average priority and deals 9-15% with knockback that KOs at 230-200%. Below average end lag.

When Spadefox transfers some of his essence to form the ball, it deals 15% to himself. However, upon a clean hit or a non-perfect shield, the dark substance completely covers the victim, disabling all of their attacks that have a darkness attribute. This lasts until the enemy destroys the darkness covering them by “dealing” 15% in total with their attacks. They do not have to hit anything, just use attacks that will add up to 15% and they have access to darkness attacks again.

AERIALS​
Why doesn't Spadefox have SHFFL? Because this is Brawl and not Melee. What, not everything has to be witty commentary!​

Neutral Aerial: Damnation and Redepmtion
Spade harshly spreads his wings and arms as a swirling vortex of purple fire surrounds him for .4 seconds. The fire reaches outwards to cover an area the size of Bowser. Spade's aerial momentum stops during this attack, and after the attack is finished, there is average end lag. There’s also low startup lag in case you were wondering.

The fire is a disjointed hitbox that deals 14% with set knockback as far as 2/3 of battlefield, with a darkness attribute. After the move is finished, a cloud of purple ashes is left drifting where the attack was performed, taking up the same space. It lasts for 14 seconds. During the first 7 seconds, all darkness attacks performed within the cloud (meaning their hitbox is inside it) have a 1.2x damage boost, and all other moves have their power reduced to .8x damage. After those 7 seconds are up, the fog turns white, during which time the opposite effect occurs. Only one cloud can be on-screen at a time; if Spade tries to use this attack again with a cloud on-screen, he can't form the firey vortex, and his arms and wings are the only hitboxes dealing a minor 7% with set knockback as far as 1/3 of battlefield.

Forward Aerial: Lost in the Abyss
Spadefox teleports fowards 1/3 of battlefield, leaving a cloud of black mist where he was initially. With the scythe in the ground, you can also teleport to the halfway point between your current location and the scythe’s if you use a smash input.. His aerial momentum stops while performing this move. There is below average startup and end lag to this, and the mist lasts as long as the end lag. Enemies who touch the mist take 12% and set knockback as far as ½ of battlefield in the opposite direction they were heading. Spade has super-armor for last 3 frames of the startup lag, so this is a combination of a counter-attack and repositioning move.

Back Aerial: Anti-existence
Spade lashes out one tentacle behind himself as far as a Battlefield platform. It deals 10% and knockback that KOs at 210%, and has below average startup lag with average end lag. If the tentacle hits a solid object, it will detach from Spade and fuse into the object, creating a “hole” the height of Ike and as wide as Luigi’s height. The hole is represented by a strange screen distortion, and only Spadefox can move through it. The hole lasts for 5 seconds and there is no limit to the amount that can be on the screen. If it affects the edge of a platform, then the nearest unaffected ground will be a substitute edge. This can even be used on traps to allow Spade to pass through them unharmed, though if the effect wears off with Spade on the trap, you’re damage insurance is void.

If his tentacles are preoccupied with manipulating the blast zones of the stage, then this move is replaced with Spade performing a 360 degree forwards flip with his claws outstretched. This deals 10% with knockback in the direction Spade is facing that KOs at 170%, darkness attribute. The flip starts up and goes by quickly but there is average end lag.

Up Aerial: Dark Embers
Magical purple Flames envelop Spade’s entire body as he spreads his wings. After .4 seconds of charging (and he has super-armor during the last .2 seconds) he then lunges in the direction you indicate with the control stick as far as Fox Illusion and only a bit slower. Spade’s entire body is a high-priority hitbox that deals 12% with knockback in the direction he’s traveling that KOs at 110%, and this has a darkness attribute. He will continue moving through enemies and even shields, though it does not actually hurt a shielding enemy. There is also low end lag to this move, though Spade will enter free-fall after using it.

While the move on its own is rather insane and a nearly unstoppable recovery move, there is an additional property that you may find eerily familiar. On a clean hit, some of the dark fire becomes infused into the target. This gives the last 6 moves the opponent performed a darkness attribute as well as give them a 1.3x damage buff. This is a permanent effect for the remainder of the opponent’s stock and there is no limit to the amount of moves this can affect.

Down Aerial: Dark Dive (not to be confused with Captain Falcon’s Ganondorf’s Up-Special which doesn’t make sense since he’s going up not down and now this move name is even longer than Olver’s jab…)
Normally, this is a basic downwards swing of his scythe below himself, similar to Meta Knight's Dair. It has below average startup lag, average end lag, and deals 10%, with horizontal knockback that KOs at 150%. Woohoo?

When not wielding his scythe, Spadefox performs a stall-then-fall with his claws. This deals 8% and has low startup lag, and like all of his claw attacks, has a darkness attribute. When Spade hits the ground, he immediately sinks into it and disappears from sight. For one second, you may quickly move Spade around inside the platform he entered with the control stick.

After the second is up, Spade immediately burst out of the platform with a spinning claw uppercut that deals 10% with set vertical knockback as high as 3 Ganondorfs and has a darkness attribute. Spade goes up as high Luigi’s Super Jump Punch and the move has below average priority. Low end lag, the move ends in the air. If Spade is underneath his scythe when he emerges, he will grab it as he exits the ground and performs the attack with that instead of his claws, giving the move better range, priority, and damage (12%).

Glide Aerial: Thorn in My Side
Spadefox sweeps his scythe below himself during his glide. This has below average startup and end lag. Only the head of the scythe is a hitbox. If he misses, he enters free-fall, but if he connects he stops in place as the next part of the move commences.

Connecting with the attack gets the enemy caught on the blade of the scythe as Spade flies straight up with them for the distance of 2x Ganondorf’s height. At the end of this, he brings the enemy’s face close to his, then performs his back-throw on them glaring at them for a moment before charging his scythe with dark energy, blasting the opponent off it for 13% and set knockback as far as 2/3 of battlefield.

If Spade already has his scythe sticking in the stage, it would be a tad difficult to use the regular move, so when you make the input, he stops his movement for .3 seconds before hurtling forwards as his entire body turns into a streak of black gas going as far as 1/3 of Battlefield at an insane speed. If he hits an obstacle for a shielding opponent, it ends up dissipating into a cloud of smoke the size of Kirby that lingers for .4 seconds and can move around in any direction at a decent speed with the control stick, then reforms into his real form and he enters his air-game with below average end lag.

If he does connect on an opponent, his entire Smokey body disappears into their body as the victim keels over. Oh man, that’s some bad indigestion. After .6 seconds, an explosion-like sound is heard as the enemy takes 13% and set knockback as far as ½ of battlefield, with some smoke oozing out of their body. That smoke quickly moves over to Spade’s scythe and reforms into the demon himself with low lag. This is a nice way to quickly get back to your scythe while damaging the opponent, OR if the enemy shields it you can still reposition yourself for follow-ups.

THROWS​
I know all you guys are secretly gay and want me to keep the BThrow, but it wasn't very playstyle relevant back then, and it isn't now! (d)

Grab Animation
Spade reaches out with his free hand in order to grab the enemy by their throat. If the victim is smaller than Spade they start struggling as he lifts his foe off the ground in a choke-hold. This has decent range but mediorce speed. You were expecting a revival of the grab from the original set? (wary)

Pummel: Give a Wolf a Taste…
Spade opens his jaws as a long black tongue emerges and Spade slowly licks his opponent’s face, getting a good long sample of their flavor. This deals no damage and takes .7 seconds to finish, but an enemy cannot break out while the pummel is going on even if the grab timer runs out. When the move is finished the enemy will be poisoned for 5 seconds, taking 1% each second.

Forward Throw: Soul Drain
Spade finally gives in to his feral desires and clamps his jaws over his grabbed enemy, consuming their life energy (Spade’s a Metroid?!) He deals 3% for every .2 seconds the enemy is caught, and his grab timer continues where it left off then tosses the opponent away as far as 1/3 of battlefield.

Abosrbing the enemy's essence causes some glowing vein-like purple markings to appear on Spade’s body. If you use a tentacle attack with this marking, the tentacles will have a purple electrical aura that gives them decent priority instead of their normally pitiful priority. This lasts for one use before the marking disappears. The Side Special does not interact with this marking due to its unique properties, and if you manage to devour much of the stage Spade retains the glowing lines on his bones. Be warned, if you do this throw when the enemy has a status infliction Spade will inherit the status, for better or worse.

Back Throw: Transparry
Spade sticks the head of his scythe through the victim before swinging them backwards and off the scythe. This deals 7% and knockback that KOs at 180%, but is rather slow to perform due to Spade doing the motion in an exaggerated and dramatic manner. After performing this throw, some of the enemy’s blood is left on the blade of the scythe for 3 seconds. If Spadefox is hit by a jointed attack from the victim of the throw in that time, he will automatically block the attack with his scythe and with a wave of his hand, teleport the victim ½ of battlefield away in a puff of smoke. Afterwards, the blood disappears. Spade cannot get a new target for the secondary effect until the current one goes away. If he’s not holding his scythe when attacked he cannot use the counter-move.

When you try this throw without his scythe, Spade turns around with the enemy and kicks them away. This deals 7%, which is lower than Dedede’s broken BThrow, and deals only ½ as much knockback as Dedede’s broken BThrow. Did I mention Dedede has a broken BThrow?

Up Throw: Out of my Sight
Spade cuts the victim with his scythe, dealing a paltry 5% and gets some of the enemy’s blood on his scythe. Spade then let’s go of the enemy and makes a dismissive motion with his free hand, transporting the enemy to the nearest platform edge in a puff of smoke. This can be either a solid edge or a drop-through platform, and the enemy is standind next to it, not in the air about to grab it.

If Spade isn’t wielding his scythe, then he just tosses the enemy away with a disgusted look on his face, dealing 6% and set knockback as far as 1/5 of battlefield.

Down Throw: From Beyond the Grave
Spade wraps some tentacles around the victim while sending some through portals to grab his scythe. Then, the tentacles pull their respective items through portals to switch places with each other, causing the opponent to be transported to where Spade’s scythe was while the evil overlord himself has his scythe back in his hands. This throw deals no damage or knockback. Spade’s tentacles can be attacked while the animation is going on by other players, and if tentacles are destroyed they won’t complete their part of the exchange, so Spade can possibly transport the opponent to his scythe without actually bring back his scythe. This can be used to your favor in a team battle with friendly fire on considering Spade takes no damage from his tentacles being destroyed…

If Spade is already holding his scythe, or his tentacles are unavailable thanks to his Side-Special, this move is a simple kick to the face, dealing 7% and knockback that KOs at 180%.

FINAL SMASH
You mean Super Attack or Fatality, right?​

Awakening the Chaos

Ah, it’s time for Spade to once again become his super-broken alternate form
click for a pic
that you already know about if you’ve read Playing God (or the original moveset).

So after acquiring the smash ball, Spadefox closes his eyes and remains perfectly calm and collected for about 6 seconds, invincible.. I don’t know how he does it, but he’s even able to put up with HR’s constant babbling and Warlord’s constant political debates in this Zen-like state. After the time’s up, however, he instantly opens his eyes as they shine purple and the entire screen fades to black…

When the screen comes back in, you’ll notice that the camera is zoomed out considerably, and we can see wriggling black tentacles all around the edge of the screen, just like in Spade’s side special! Okay, that’s not too bad, all we have to do is KO Spadefox…oh, yeah, he’s in that really awesome final form he has, in the background, and he’s pretty much as huge as Godzilla. For the next 13 seconds, you get to pulverize your opponents with 2 pretty broken attacks, and the entire time the tentacles are closing in (for the record, it takes 14 seconds for Mitternacht to reach full power, and the state of that move resets when the final smash begins).

Pressing the Attack Button will result in Spade slamming one of his fists onto the side of the arena it’s closest to. This deals 20% and impressive set knockback, as far as ½ of Final Destination towards the other side of the stage. The startup and end lag are both as high as a Warlock Punch, when an attack covers half the stage, does that really matter? You may hold the control stick left or right do determine the fist he uses, defaulting to left.

While the final smash is going on, you also have a puny little cursor of fire to move around the stage with the control stick. Pressing the Special Attack button plus a direction results in Spade firing an equally small sphere of energy from one of his eyes to the cursor. Once it reaches the position of the input (you may move the cursor once you make the input, and this attack can be performed laglessly but with a recharge time of .5 seconds) it suddenly darts in the direction that was pressed at a high speed until it hits something. This deals 10% with set knockback in the direction the sphere was moving as far as 1/3 of battlefield. If no direction is pressed, the sphere lingers in place for .4 seconds, dealing flinching knockback.

Once the Final Smash ends, some overly epic cutscene happens and blahblah the screen turns back to normal, Spade turns back to normal, the game (which you just lost) continues like normal, everything becomes BORING again! Seriously, where’s Doppelori when you need her for some over the top, zany action?

PLAYSTYLE
WARNING! OMNIVERSE OF TEXT APPROACHING!​

ZOMG somehow manage an approach with your fail approaching tools and then somehow your tacked-on status effects will allow you land more hits even though they don’t actually assist with that and if that doesn’t work then just try camping even though you have no ways to camp!

Whoa, what kind of playstyle is that? Seriously, you’d have to be an idiot to think a playstyle like that is good! Really, if I ever see a set like that place in a top 10, I’ll kill myse- *sees MYM6 top 10* (no)

Okay, seriously, Spadefox’s playstyle can be summed up in one simple word: Positioning. That’s it. His attacks allow him to shift around on the battlefield while simultaneously damaging opponents, and therefore he can constantly readjust his location to prepare for the next strike. There, playstyle section over, you may now super vo- oh, you want more depth than that? Fine (d). Just don’t say I didn’t warn you…

Setting-up and Positioning-Based Offense
Okay, so the first thing you’ll need to take into account is the fact that Spade essentially has 4 different movesets at his disposal; 2 variations with/without his scythe, and 2 with/out his tentacles. The trick is to not force yourself to stick to one set of moves, but swap them around as the match goes on. Naturally, this is a very daunting task to learn so much, but thankfully there is some rhyme and reason to it.

The primary state for Spadefox to be in is for his scythe placed in the ground as his Side-Special inactive. Scythe Mind is of course how you’ll be moving the scythe into place, and it’s very good at what it does. You don’t have to worry much about interruptions when your damage your opponent while moving the scythe around, and since the enemy can’t pick it up, once you place it where you like, it’s there to stay. Once you’ve set-up the scythe, you’ve essentially created a set of coordinates that spell death for those who enter it. Get into the scythe’s horizontal axis? Be prepared to eat an FSmash, and all the walls you hide behind won’t save you! Or shielding for that matter, since Spade can just toss in Dsmash when that occurs. Go above the scythe, and you’ll have to contend with the wolf’s Utilt, and on some stages this may as well be the entire vertical axis of the stage! A final potential option is FTilt, which is dependent on yours and the opponent’s positions to be effective, but is flexible because of its path being adjustable.

If this was all there was to Spade he would be one-sided and boring, but thankfully all that positing stuff I mentioned comes into play at this point! You’ll notice that spade has a decent amount of moves that let him end it in a different position from where he began; DTilt, Fair, and Dair are the easiest examples, though several other moves qualify as well. These are the bread and butter of Spadefox’s gameplay; as you attack, you also move around the battlefield, putting yourself in a position to perform follow-ups. Some characters need to play the zoning game with their opponent after every hit to land that next strike, but Spadefox can deal damage to his opponent and space himself at the same time. This is another reason why your scythe is so valuable; it’s uncompromising linear space-control effectively restricts the opponent’s horizontal and/or vertical movement to a specific quadrant of the stage, so even the slightest bit of post-move-positioning that Spade’s moves allow for can lead right into the next strike, and since he’s moving during the attack that makes it that much easier for him retreat in case he falters.

Plan B: Defenive Action
Of course, Spade will inevitably be countered by something the opponent does, or else he would be broken (Which is greatly preferable to the garbage-tier status of the first moveset, but still). Even worse, the opponent may find themselves in the perfect spot to start applying their own pressure. This is the time when Spade will most likely physically wield his scythe. If you sense an offensive’s about to happen from your enemy, this is a perfect time to use either Dair or Gair to get to your scythe ASAP! If you’re opponent is waiting by the scythe, then Gair loses its effectiveness but you gain 2 options in its place; Scythe Mind becomes viable as the wind from the teleport-swing will give you some breathing room to prepare a defense (if not pre-emptively blocking the enemy offense) and FTilt will just move the scythe to your hands and if someone is in the way, they take damage!

Okay, so you got your scythe back, and are all geared up for some defense. Your goal at this point is to simply get your opponent far enough away that you can set-up the scythe into the stage and return to your zoning-based offense. Spade has an easier time doing this with his scythe in-hand as his scythe-based moves all deal good set knockback that gives him the space he needs, with the exception of DTilt which simply provides a nice air-to-ground option. Other options include Nair for having spacing-knockback, and UThrow to immediately get the enemy to the nearest platform edge if you happen to be far from one. The moment you get some breathing room, it’s time to return the scythe to its natural habitat of the ground and for Spade to return to his natural environment of kicking butt.

Finishing-Off the Enemy
Speaking of the edge, Spadefox can viably score regular KOs or gimps. You’d probably think Spade as built for KOs considering his aerial shenanigans and he doesn’t have much KO options outside the somewhat predicable Scythe Mind…or does he? Yeah, maybe you forgot the part where Mitternacht lets him SHRINK THE ****ING BLAST ZONES! Yeah, even if his moves don’t normally KO too early, he can lower the percent they KO at anyways, and this even makes his gimping stuff more potent since he doesn’t have to chase you as far off the stage while removing the risk of dying. The main reason NOT to try this is that you’ll probably be at a high damage when you use it so Spade will die just from regular hits…But then again, Spade is so freakin’ light that he dies easily even without stamina-restrictions, olololololol. Of course, until that happens you’d have to be an idiot to not recover with Spade, considering he has Scythe Mind, Mitternacht, Lost on the Path, UAir, and Gair in addition to multiple jumps and his glide to take care of things.

Close-Combat Zoning
Zoning doesn’t does have to be super-long range and involve stage control. Sometimes the best zone you can control is to simply keep your opponent close to you. That’s where Spade’s down special, “Guard Dog of Hades”, comes into play. You don’t even need to place your scythe anywhere to start it up; just add water! Now you’ll be forced into using Spade’s melee-oriented claw attacks (which are normally mediocre but in this state get range and priority buffs to be good), he can’t move out of the range of his scythe, but that’s ok. You can just howl to force your enemy to approach, and since the startup lag is cancelable you’re pretty much free to use it.

The key is that Spade still isn’t turned into a camper with this strategy; He still has to actively fight the opponent once they enter his zone of combat, as running away isn’t an option thanks to his chain, and if he doesn’t apply pressure they can leave the zone and use ranged tactics against him. Heck, why not activate Mitternacht while you’re at it, it won’t matter if you’re mobility is lowered a bit since you’re stuck in a pre-defined area to begin with, and by the time the link is broken for the move you’ll either die from stamina, or you’ll live and go right into Spade’s primary positioning strategies. Ironically enough, the zone you’re trying to defend despite all this close-range offensive pressure is the area outside of your range of movement.

Other Options
OH GOD NO MORE HR NO MORE! Don’t worry, this is the last section. So you may have noticed that Spade has a few moves that involve attacks with a darkness attribute. Well, to keep this short, these contribute to Spade’s zoning with some nice bait-and-swtich tactics. Uair powers up the enemy’s attacks with darkness, but then USmash takes away (and is a homing projectile so it helps with zoning directly too!). Nair can be used to lure an opponent to a specific spot or limit their movement depending on how you treat Uair. Then FThrow applies their darkness buffs to yourself!

Lastly, we get to Spade’s throw-game, touched upon in other sections. This is a nice way to round out Spade’s gameplay by letting him play with positioning in a different way; by altering the enemy’s position instead of his own. 3 of his 4 throws do exactly this. 2 of them require Spade to wield his scythe to make use of them, but that’s ok, as DThrow relocates the enemy AND gives Spade his scythe back at once! While Spade mainly wants to be the one doing the positioning, should the time come where you’re opponent needs to move, you can remain in control.

And then we get to lots of other fun stuff, such as using Mitternach to lessen the duration of FSmash and UTilt to make them safer, using FSmash with Spade in the path to transition to his defensive moveset, using Lost on the Path for all sorts of zip-line shenanigans…oh, look at the time, I have to go!

MATCHUPS​
New and exciting idea for matchups: Let’s ditch the stupid arbitrary ratios and just state if the character had an advantage or disadvantage. (h)​

Vs The Joker: Moderate Disadvantage
Let’s get the bad out of the way first, shall we? The Joker has the attribute Spadefox hates most: a good stage-control game. Ballistic Bomber and Gentleman’s Coat are both high-damage permanent traps on the field, giving Spade just as little breathing space as his scythe does for the enemy. The Joker isn’t very mobile, but he doesn’t have to be when he can stop Spade’s movement short with KO-potential bombs placed all over the stage (and he can actually be pretty fast with his coat off). If Spade tries to play more defensively The Joker still has some projectiles such as FSmash as long as his coat is on, and of course his infamous Joker Card. While the Joker can’t gimp well that doesn’t matter since Spade is ungimpable. With his coat on the Joker even has counters against Spade’s lengthier positioning moves with DSmash (which also has KO potential). And finally, there’s Joker’s great grab-game with even more KO goodness to destroy the light Spadefox.

It’s not all bad, though. Spade can still play dodge the bombs with his air game, and if he uses Scythe Mind liberally he can hit Joker from afar and detonate all of the bombs from Ballistic Bomber. When he does rack up some damage, he can finish off the Joker quite easily since he can take advantage of the Joker’s slow attacks to land a Scythe Mind tele-strike, and the Joker has a poor recovery that leaves him easily gimped. While the Gentleman’s Coat is a great trap, it can backfire on the Joker and using it removes some of his best options from play such as his fake cards, FSmash projectile, side-B bombs, and counter DSmash.

Overall, the match goes to Joker for being able to set the pace and being able to play to all his strengths: His KO potential, stage-control game, grab-game, and mix-up potential. However, his primary weaknesses come into play as well, his poor recovery and slow attacks. Spadefox is still able to play some positioning and can easily finish off the Joker if he does rack up the necessary damage, so he can still pull off a win, though it will be a bit of an uphill battle.

Vs Mach Rider:Strong Advantage
Mach Rider mixes rushdown with a hit-and-run, and Spade hates having to rely on his defensive moves. However, Mach Rider has a bit of an issue due to his gear mechanic. He needs to shift to 3rd gear or so before he can maximize his aggressiveness or else his attacks end up with poor range. If Mach Rider goes off to build gears undisturbed Spade is free to set-up his scythe, and if Mach Rider goes on the offense really early Spade can just punish with a range and priority advantage. Even when he gets his gears set-up, Spade can still move around the stage much easier and if he lands a single hit Mach Rider just lost all his progress. Mach Rider’s saving grace is his good recovery and the potential to KO Spade really early, so if he does manage to get into high-gear and keep it, he can pull off an upset win, though this isn’t exactly easy.

Vs Alphonse: Slight Disadvantage
Like the Joker, Al is great at stage-control, as we know that really screws with Spade’s playstyle. The primary difference here is that Al needs to go through a set-up phase before he really take advantage of this, and while Spade also has a set-up phase he can do it much easier and faster than Al ever could. Al WISHES he could damage-rack while drawing his transmutation circles. This means that Spade gets to do his zoning shenanigans and get Al up to high damage before he has to worry about those evil trap moves. Heck, Spade could even start Mitternach and actually advance it a bit before Al gets anywhere meaningful.

Of course, all of Al’s matches play like that at the start, lulz. Considering Al has so many traps with manual activation, including some insane ones such as Uair and Dair, he can scare Spade off with his tail between his legs once the Transmutation Circles are complete. At least Spade’s repositioning attacks can help him bypass the traps’ area of effect. Spade can’t be chain-grabbed well due to his light-weight, but by proxy he also dies fairly soon from one well-timed FSmash from Al. Spade also has a hard time finishing off Al due to that darn portal recovery, though if he takes advantage of Mitternach as previously mentioned he can offset this. If Spade uses Al’s set-up period wisely, he can deal impressive damage, but Al is fully capable of shifting the game to his favor once he gets going.

Vs Cutesy Beau: Can’t Happen
Cutesy is banned from competitive play for excessive stalling. Seriously, even in a match with infinite time it’s still not enough to read that freaking petal mechanic! And if we take it away Cutesy loses a lot of her gameplay, so Spade would win by default.

Vs Dingodile: Strong Advantage
Oh God another stage-controller of sorts and this one doesn’t even need to set-up like Alphonse! But wait, Dingo’s not so much controlling stage as he is finding a clever way to force approaches. Unfortunately for Dingo, Spade has multiple ways of getting around the crystals. He can use slice right through them with Scythe Mind or FSmash. With Fair or Dair, he can teleport through them or “tunnel” under them. With DSmash, he can just grab Dingo without even having to think of the crystals to begin with. With Guard Dog of Hades, he can safely attack Dingo and all of the crystals from afar. The best part is how those are Spade’s core moves to begin with, so he doesn’t have to readjust so much for this matchup.

So what can Dingodile do? Um, he can use his jab to try to out-position Spadefox, good luck with that…he can use some fire-ball mindgames to try and take pot-shots at Spade…and, uh…I guess ATTEMPT to suicide KO against Spade 3 times but Spade’s too big to eat…um, yeah, Dingo’s specialization of choice finally comes back to bite him on the butt and of course it’s with a guy who likes butt…

Vs Velociraptors: Slight Advantage
The main advantage of the Velociraptors, their mobility, is rendered somewhat ineffective in this matchup as Spadefox is pretty mobile himself and even has his positioning attacks to perhaps tilt it to his favor. Good thing too, since the Velociraptors excel in pressure and aggressiveness, which means Spade is gonna find himself playing more defensively than usual in this matchup so he needs way to escape. Both characters have things to set-up; Spade wants his scythe in the ground to begin his offense, and the Velociraptors want to form a pack to rack up super-high damage (more great news for Spade!). Of course, Spade can plop his scythe down at the start and use FSmash to plow through all the raptors at once, somewhat limiting the effectiveness of pack maneuvers. The raptors’ size and weight means that Spade can kill them easier than normal, especially considering he has surprisingly good damage racking for a character who primarily gimps. Throw in the superior range and priority of Spade’s scythe moves and acceptable speed and it turns out that Spade can quite easily shift the momentum to his favor and do some attacking of his own. This is very much a back and forth shift of momentum, and while Spade does seem to negate a lot of the raptors’ good traits, the raptors are so good at what they do (with some versatility to spare) that they can still quite easily pull off the win.

Vs Doppelori: Moderate Disadvantage
Okay, time to position the scy- OMG HELP ME I’M BEING BLASTED BY A ROBOT WOMAN WHO KEEPS CHASING ME AROUND THE STAGE! That sums up this matchup quite nicely. Doppelori’s “Hit and Repel” playstyle means that once she gets anywhere near Spade’s zone of comfort she’ll pummel him with artillery fire, then when he tries to escape and regroup he’ll just be sent packing again. His defensive moves aren’t going to help him much when Doppelori has a good projectile game at the forefront of his assault. Overall she just makes it very difficult for Spade to do much zoning when he’s stuck trying to fight her off to even get started. And since he’s so light, he has a good chance of dying before a minute passes…

If Spade survives long enough for Doppelori to gain a final smash, then things shift towards Spade being slightly favored. Spade’s final smash can make short of Doppelori if he lands one hand strike, considering Doppelori will most likely end up off the stage where her poor recovery won’t do her any favors (and then you have the shrinking blast zones the entire time). While Doppelori has great ground mobility to avoid the fist attacks, those energy spheres flying around at the same time make it hell for her to try jump-dodging with her poor aerial mobility which leaves her open to the fists. Of course, she is fully capable of surviving, which means that this matchup goes from “Doppelori ***** Spade” (ewww, there’s a nasty thought) to “Spade manages to squeak by with a win” when smash balls are present. Not exactly a great matchup, though it’s not horrible.

Vs Abra: Slight Advantage
Both characters rely on warping around to perform their duties, Abra much more so than Spadefox. Abra uses his teleports for hit-and-run mixed in with occasional rushdown, Spadefox likes to remain in a more neutral (though leaning towards offensive) state-of-being. What happens when they square off?

Well, the big thing Spade has over Abra is that he can reliably damage-rack and gimp with some KO potential on the side, whereas Abra mainly has damage racking but a bit of trouble with both gimps and KOs since even a gimp on his part requires some hefty damage requirements. Granted, this isn’t as big a deal in this matchup thanks to Spade’s weight, but Abra’s not exactly heavy either. While Abra doesn’t make positioning itself the focal point of his playstye, he is fully capable of competing with Spade’s thanks to the sheer amount of teleportation options he has, though Spade still has his trap-like Scythe to give him the edge overall. However, if Abra manages to put Spade on the defense, well, Spade’s gonna have a hard time doing much of anything when Abra just bypasses the scythe and hits Spade in the face, and Abra’s pressure-game can truly be terrifying at times like this. Overall, this is a fun matchup for both competitors as try to out-smart each other with all their teleportation shenanigans, it’s almost like a game of Super Smash Chess!

Alternate Matchup: A grab-happy Spadefox meets a grab-happy Abra, and they both keep teleporting EACH OTHER all over the place. Many lulz ensue and they go out to get a beer.

Vs Spadefox: Spadefox's Favor
Spadefox will try to pressure Spadefox and inflict status effects, but since he fails so much at approaching this means nothing. Even if Spadefox does inflict some penalties on Spadefox, none of them are severely crippling to movement that can be easily landed, so Spadefox’s zoning game will remain intact. Meanwhile Spadefox will take advantage of Spadefox’s slow attacks and pummel him with positioning moves to the dust. Both characters die early but Spadefox can actually KO and gimp, while Spadefox has to land his laggy (though epic) Down Special then try and kill Spadefox’s soul while both Spadefox and his soul use their in-hand scythe attacks for defense. Speaking of defense, Spadefox can’t even camp when his fail approaching does the same verb I just used as an adjective, whereas Spadefox has viable defensive options and can still force approaches despite a lack of projectiles thanks to his own Down Special and “homing tentacle attack” DSmash which is faster than Spadefox’s “homing tentacle attack” grab (though that grab game is sexy, mmmmm). Oh, and Spadefox’s Bthrow causes a paradox when used on Spadefox. Don’t do it.

EXTRAS
You want extras? Read the original moveset for that! Fine, I guess I can whip up something...​

JOE! said:
REMIX PROJECT DIBS LIST

MasterWarlord: :gluttony: :envy:

Bkupa666: :Hades: :Kaptain Skurvy:

Hyper_Ridley: :Spadefox: :Omega Ridley:

Junahu: :every Sakurai moveset ever:
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
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Location
Australia
A list of attacks from Pokemon D/P/pt's 92+8 Mahcines that teach your Pokemon moves. Most of the attacks are essentially the same as in the game if you are a familiar Pokemon fan. There's 100 freakin moves here, so don't be surprised if I do a lot of ripping off other Brawl moves.

Focus Punch
The User gathers their latent energy and channels it into their fist. Once initiated, the user must continue charging for 4 seconds, and if completed, they can store the charge. When initiated, the user performs a Falcon Punch esque attack that has no starting lag. The resulting blow does 30% that KOs at 25%.

Chances are, any smart foe won't let you charge all the way, but it forces them to approach you, since no foe wants a Focus Punch to the face.

Dragon Claw
For as long as the input is held, the user becomes enveloped in a fiery aura with minute lag. By tapping any of the 4 cardinal directions in this state, the user will perform a overhead slash with their claws in the respective direction. The slash does 8% with low stun and has some lag on both ends to prevent spamming. By holding the fiery aura and not slashing for up to 1.5 seconds, the attack's power increases up to 18% and can KO at 170%. A very useful attack for protecting the user from all areas, but it can become very predictable.

Water Pulse
The user creates a aquatic ring through various means, having average start-up lag but low end lag. The ring itself is as tall as the user, travelling 5/8 of Final Destination at Ike's runnning speed. Once it hits the foe, it does 9% and reverses their controls for 3 seconds, as one would expect. The attack isn't spammable, but the fact that it moves so slowly despite it's range means that you can potentially chase after the Water Pulse and force the foe into it for a combo.

Calm Mind
The user concentrates as a pink aura envelops them. For as long as the input is held, the user will continue to concentrate as their elemental/psychic/magic attacks have their power and their resistance to said moves increased by 1.1 for each second the attack is held. This lasts for 3 seconds but the overall timer for the powerup is multiplied for each second, so 1.8 would mean the powerup lasts for 24 seconds. An excellent attack for set-ups if the foe doesn't approach or if you want to beef up a certain attack(s).

Roar
The user lets out a terrifying roar that quite obviously pushes the foe back, if they're a SBB in front of you. How far they get pushed back depends on the charge: up to 2 seconds can push the foe back infinitely. The pushback however stops once the foe reaches the ledge or at the edge of the stage on walk-offs to prevent a cheap KO. There's a bit of lag on both ends for forewarning but if you can pull it off you're all set for some supreme kick butt moment.

Toxic
The User unwillingly forces some dark essence out of their soul, it's size is 1.2 the user's raduis around them. Once it hits a foe, they'll start taking 1% per 2 seconds that increases by 1% for every 2 seconds, essentially doing 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 over time, but the effect cannot be stacked. This may seem uberly broken for damage racking since it's permanent for the stock remainder, but pulling the attack off requires average lag, and it's easy enough to see coming due to the animation.

Hail
The User uses their essence to summon a hailstorm in a 1 second animation, but the hail doesn't arrive until 5 seconds have passed. Once summoned, the hail spreads across the whole stage and unless the user finds cover or is a Ice Type (or is made of snow/ice essentially like Khold or Bleak), they'll take 1% per second over the 20 seconds that the hail lasts. Apart from being a slow but sure damage racker, it also covers the whole screen in a fog, slightly obscuring all. Hail cannot stack.

Bulk Up
This is essentially the same as Calm Mind, except for physical attacks and the user gains a brown aura, not pink. They also enter a Super Sayian esque stance.

Bullet Seed
Me not feeling creative, I decided to rip-off Ivysaur's Bullet Seed. The only difference is that The User fires in the direction of the specific input, wether it be Side, Up or Down. Using the Neutral Input allows for The User to charge and store the attack so they can increase the attack's duration equal to 3X the charge. Haven't you always wanted to use Bullet Seeed forever and be cheap?

Hidden Power
The User summons their latent energy to do something great. Unlike the Pokemon attack however, the effect isn't based on your Pokemon's EV, but rather by chance:
Common: Nothing happens. Too bad The User had to go through a 3/4 second animation. You can keep trying however.
Uncommon (1/4): The User gets a powerup for all their stats and atacks for 10 seconds. This varies for Users, usually being a 1/4 increase or different to balance the character, affecting power, knockback, range, effects and so on. Characters with mechanics will gain various boosts. This cannot stack.
Rare (1/10): The User essentially gains a 1/2 increase for 20 seconds, essentially mimicing the effect above. Cannot stack on it's own, and will overide the above effect if gained when it's active.
Super Rare: (1/30): The User gains the Smash Aura. Yay, free Final Smash! You'll have to get very lucky though, as it's not an easy thing to do.

Sunny Day
Essentially the same set-up as Hail, but instead of damaging, it rips off the Pokemon Games: doubles the power of fire attacks, halves water attacks (or pushback in most cases), thaws frozen foes more quickly, no having to charge "Solarbeam".

Taunt
The User actually performs one of their taunts at random. Should you complete one when a foe is within a Smart Bomb of you, they can't use any of their attacks that don't inflict damage AND knockback/hitstun for some incredibly stupid reason for 40 seconds. Though trust me, not only is this attack near impossible to pull-off, it's not really that useful against most foes.

Ice Beam
Good old Ice Beam has The User fire a beam of ice that essentially rips of ROB's Laser. The only difference is that this attack has average lag on both ends, does 2X more damage and knockback and has a 90-50% chance of freezing the foe for 3/4 of a Freezie time.

Blizzard
Yet another charge and store move that has The User charge cold energy for up to 2 seconds. After released, The User creates a blizzard in front of them that has 1/4 to MAX range of Mario's Final Smash. It can be held out for up to 2-5 seconds, causing hazards to the foe as if they were being affected by the IC's Final Smash, but also pushes them back at Gannon's walking speed. Essentially a nasty range attack. So, yeah. The only real downside is the average lag on both ends.

Hyper Beam
Another funky move, Hyper Beam has The User fire a beam as tall as they are with infinite range like a funky beam should have. Foes hit take 37% with knockback KOing at 50%. As you'd expect, this is a very punishing attack to use. Not only does it have average start-up lag, but requires the user to recharge for 10 seconds. They can actually move during this time, but only at 3/4 their speed, and they cannot use items, grab or attack.

Light Screen
This attack is essentially a copy of Pit's Mirror Shield, but the psychically made barrier is 1.4 as tall as The User, reflects projectiles at 2.5X the speed and power but does not stand against physical attacks or spin foes around.

Protect
The User defends themselves (not in the silly fashion in the ainme where they make those magical barriers) in a Double Team (Lucario's attack) fashion, execpt that every attack frame is a counter frame. If attacked, The User exits the state with no lag so you can get a free counterattack in. This counter has cons however, as you can't rely on it to defend against multihitting moves since there's no invincibility frames when you counter. Not only that, whenever you succeed in using Protect, there's a 1/2 chance that a 1/8 of the counter frames will randomly fail permanently. In that case, you can't rely on using Protect after a few tries, as in the Pokemon games it will eventually mess up and fail on you.

Rain Dance
The opposite effect of Sunny Day, stronger water attacks, weaker fire attacks. Additionally, lightning attacks will damage every character on the screen and cause half damage since water conducts electricity. You wanna use Pikachu's F-Smash for the win? Sure.

Giga Drain
The User performs their standard grab, even in mid-air. Once grabbed, The User continuously inflicts 2% per half second and gains that amount. The pummel is 2X more difficult to escape.

Safeguard
The User psychically creates a barrier around them akin to Gardevior's but unlike said Pokemon, this barrier protects the user and all allies in it from status effects for the 30 seconds it lasts.

Frustration
The User performs a standard melee attack with moderate range. The damage the attack does is equal to 1/5 of your current damage percentage as is the knockback and lag: at 200% the attack has Falcon Punch lag but KOs at 50%.

Solarbeam
Essentially a Hyper Beam, but does 25% and KOs at 75%. You'll have to go through a 3 second charging phase however beforehand (in which you can't move). While Sunny Day is active, you can forget about that, though you still have average lag on both ends so you can't just keep spamming, especially if you're short.

Iron Tail
The User prepares to swing their tail at their foe. This attack is actually unique for each User. The range, damage and knockback can completely vary: heavyweights usually do more knockback but have more lag, charcters with longer tails have more range, while those with shorter tails tend to be more quick. There is no definite to this attack, and it's worth a try to experiment with the best result.

Thunderbolt
Another 2 second charge and store which prompts the user to release all static energy. Doing so prompts The User to release electricity around them ranging from 1/4 to 1.2 of a Smart Bomb (More suitably think Zapdos from Melee) for a 1 second duration. The attack does 12-28% with low stun from each hit, but the foe actually gets a choice to DI in any direction during the shocking. They could actually choose to DI towards you, which is dangerous since you suffer average ending lag and the foe could easily punish you during this time.

Thunder
Essentially the same set-up as of before, but after the 5 second wait, the screen darkens for 1 second before a lightning bolt comes down from the sky towards a random foe. Where the foe is DURING the darkening of the screen is where the lightning will hit, so they have a good amount of time to get away. If they are hit however, they'll take 25% that KOs at 80%. Just make sure that you don't get into the area the bolt will fall, as you can get hurt by it as well. Oh, and finally, you can use this attack in between waiting time, but doing so places an extra 1/5 seconds on the 1 second animation, so don't overdo it.

Earthquake
The massively epic move. The User slams the ground with all their might, going into a harmless stall then fall if used in the air. It takes 3/4 of a second to get things started, but once done, the ground starts to crack. How much ground is affected depends not only on how high The User was if they jumped down, but more so on weight. Lightweights cause a mere tremor that affects 1 SBB on both sides, doing 6% with weak flinch. But the big stuff like Heatran effectively shatter the entire ground of the stage, doing 33% that KOs upwards at 44%. It also takes a trait from the Pokemon games: uprooting foes who've Ingrained themselves (Quite a lot guilty of that, no?) or burrow themselves as cheap tactics of stall and doing double damage to them. Note that the attack has more lag the stronger it is: a weak quake is nothing, but a very powerful one takes 1.3 seconds of cooldown. Use wisely.

Return
The User performs a standard melee attack like with Frustration, except it's always at a set quick speed. The damage is equal to 1/3 the power of all the combined damage you've inflicted on the foe in the last 5 seconds, though like in the game, the attack has set power: it will never go over 25% and it will KO as low as 85%. It might not seem like a worthwile attack, but it's in fact very fast and encourages the user to perform strong damaging combos if you need to finish off the foe with this move. It's also one of the not so risky moves of the 100.

Dig

The User essentially burrows into the ground, which takes 3/4 of a second, the hole being created staying until The User comes out. From here, The User is invincible, but can take damage if the foe attacks the stage. The User can perform a certain action by tapping the control stick in a certain direction, which will prompt the user to burrow out after 1 second.
  • Default: The User will not come out until 3 seconds have passed. While it gives you invincibility, this is rather stupid, as not only can the foe stand over your hole and punish you as you come out, but you suffer average lag getting out.
  • Right or Left: Allows The User to travel by ground to the max distance of 3/4 Battlefield if held in the specifc direction. Once the User comes out, they'll leap out with the speed of Rayquaza's Dig on Intense, doing 11% that KOs at 130%.
  • Up: The User will home in on the nearest foe, but they'll emerge with the speed of Rayquaza's Dig on Hard.
Psychic

The User prepares their telekinetic powers as their body begins to gain a blue outline for as long as you hold the input, for up to 2.5 seconds before The User loses their power and ends with average lag. Foes who are 3 SBB in front of The User gain the same blue outline while in range, but nothing happens until you use a certain direction of the control stick:
  • Left of User: The User employs their telekinetic powers to slow down the foe by 1/5, whom is forced to fight against the telekinesis in battle, just as how Ash got his pants pulled down by a psychic man in the Pokemon Anime..too bad that doesn't happen here, but imagine if it did. Anyway, you can keep this up for as long as you hold the original input, but it's not a great idea to do so, as you suffer some end lag for doing so, and since you can't gain any advantages from using this move except for stalling, the foe can overtake you. Use for stalling a timer or something.
  • Right of User: This time The User paralyses the foe, forcing them to escape with 1.5X grab difficulty. Unlike the above effect, this one can be a hinderance to the foe, so it's probably a better choice.
  • Upwards: The User throws the foe upwards, doing 4% that KOs at 145%.
  • Downwards: A more painful alternative, The User this time tries to inflict pain through the use of crushing the foe and slamming them into the ground, doing 18% with average hitstun in a 1.2 second duration.
Shadow Ball

Essentially ripped straight off Mewtwo's.

Brick Break
The User performs a melee attack with speed and power based on their own stats while gaining a small amount of distance, much like Wolf's F-Smash. As you may have guessed, this move breaks reflectors, magical shields of all sorts. The effectiveness basically depends on The User: it's more designed for fast characters. Slower ones are going to be open if they try.

Double Team
This is nothing like that silly Shadow Clone Jutsu esque thing that happens in the anime. Seriously, what the hell is up with that? All Pokemon can do it? Anyway, The User blinks for a moment before they move 1 SBB in the desired direction like a recovery. However, they've left a afterimage of themselves behind since they moved back so quickly. Or you can simply choose to hold the input and stay in the place of the afterimage to fool the foe. Double Team has a bit of start-up lag but no end lag so you can attack directly from it. Use as a recovery or a mindgame, but should you recover, it will leave you helpless.

Reflect
A rip off of Light Screen, except that the barrier actually defends against physical hitboxes, turning the foe around. The foe's attack can actually kill teamates if they're nearby, so it's a great move as a sort of counter. But since it can stop physical attacks it has more lag than LS.

Shockwave
The attack is essentially Pikachu's Thunder Jolt, but sufficient space is required for it to travel ground otherwise it will not work. In addition, the wave of electiricity is flat as it travels the floor. It will do so for 2 Final Destinations until it's underneath a foe, in which it will hesitate for a split second before firing lightning upwards until it reaches it's target, doing 11% with average hitstun. You may think that it would be fun to keep making Shockwaves to torture the foe with, but they're quite easily dodged and making one when another is out will triple the lag. To use it as a trap, you must be facing away from your foe so they're presence doesn't set it off.

Flamethrower
Ripped off directly from Bowser's Fire Breath. In this case, the attack makes a good anti-approach.

Sludge Bomb
Ripped off from Yoshi's Up Special, except this can be charged but not stored for 1.5 seconds. Once it hits, it will do 2-6% with an additional 1% every 3 second for 9-24%. It also has another effect: Sludge? Anything that gets in a Smart Bomb of the victim for 4-12 seconds becomes invisible since they cannot see with all the sludge. A highly effective attack for messing up the foe.

Sandstorm
Yes, the same as the other freakin weather effects. Though it does not damage, but rather pushes the players back (like in SSE). Heavyweights will only be pushed Gannon's walk speed while light fellas get pushed Gannon's dash speed. The side the characters are pushed at depends on which side the attack was originally used. Use this attack if you want to employ spacing or gimping.

Fire Blast
The User inhales before letting out a star shaped flame (anime-wise) as tall as Gannon, UPWARDS. Yeah, though you guys were getting sick of generic projectiles, so I kicked it up a notch. Anyway, the fire travels at Ike's dash speed until it reaches the top of the screen. Foes in the way of the fire take 15% with knockback upwards KOing at 170%. Though it's not too likely you'll hit the mark since the attack is slow and predictable. There's not much start-up lag but a heckload of ending lag.

But wait, if it reaches the top of the screen, something fun happens! The entire top section of the screen is engulfed in flames that poke down 1 SBB for 1 second, doing multiple hits of 18% to anyone who gets stuck in the fire, trapping them. If you have the right timing, you could use this attack to save yourself from being blown sky high from the ending lag of Fire Blast. Wether you're the flames victim or not matters, as it can allow great set-up time, especially if one wanted to perform Earthquake...

Rock Tomb
The User slams the ground, creating cracks in the ground by force which force rocks from the ground to rise. Yet another 2 second charge and store move, doing so increases the range from 1-3 SBB, the rock pile rising 1 SBB before falling, creating a pile of rocks on both sides of The User. The attack has a very long 1.2 second duration, but fortunately the foe takes 6% with low stun if they get in the way of the rising rocks. The pile of rocks are in actualty traps which prevents anyone who's in the pile from dashing, randomly does 1% with flinching from the pointy bits, and occasionally shuffles the character's position in the rock pile: in one moment they could be standing in the middle of the rocks and the next they're at the edge. The only way to get rid of rocks is to destroy the pile, each one having 15-40HP. This is one of the few traps you get to use, so make the most of them. If you need to limit the foe's space or knock them into the rocks for annoyance, do so, but the rocks have the same consequence on you.

Aerial Ace
The User flashes briefly before dashing upwards 1.5 SBB at a binding speed. Foes who get in the way take 9% with hitstun that's enough to set the foe up for the next: if the input is used during the the moment the foe is attacked, The User will peform another attacks, this time going straight down at a binding speed. The result is 13% that KOs upwards at 160%. The second part of the attack is used if in air. This attack is generally very quick, a good way to follow up from another attack.

Torment
The User creates a vile sound through The User, sometimes it be pulling out a jukebox from hammerspace and playing a very horrible song until you reinput the move. Whatever the case, foes who enter 1.5 of a smart bomb within the foe cannot use the same attack twice in a row. The sound is very horrible and stays around for 5 seconds. Meanwhile, The User is free to follow up any action to use on the foe. Not neccesarily a useful attack, but against the right foe it becomes a nightmare.

Facade
Essentially the same as Brick Break, but The User gains 1.5 more power for every added effect inflicted upon them. You might want to try using this while stuck in your own trap for more power.

Secret Power
The User performs a completely standard melee attack in front of them with range, power, lag and properties depending on The User's traits, mostly be physical. Lightweights get a quick jab while heavyweights get DDD's F-Smash power. There's absolutely nothing tacked on about this attack.

Rest
The User begins to rest for as long as you hold the button input. You'll gain 2% every second you're asleep, but suffer average lag when you do decide to wake up. This isn't a extremely useful move, yet another move if you want the foe to approach you.

Attract
Ummm, how am I gonna get this to work in Brawl? It would be OoC for most characters to get infatuated with something random. The User somehow sends out a cartoonish heart from their heart that floats at Gannon's run speed forward 1/2 Final Destination. The heart has a different effect based on the foe: if the foe is actually in love with The User, they'll get stunned by it, but otherwise as for most, they'll stop whatever action they're doing and swat the stupid heart away. I wonder if it's even real? Either way, it has little lag on both ends, acting merely as a pesky move.

Thief
The User yet again performs their standard grab, but this time they do 5% with set knockback, as well as stealing any items on the foe. It can even steal Smash Ball Aura.

Steel Wing
The User flies through the air 2-5 SBB (for as long as you hold the input) while peforming a spinning attack with their wings. This recovery can be curved in a fashion similar to Pit's Arrow, making it difficult to control. Foes in the way are dragged by the wings for multiple hits racking up to 7-19% before taking knockback from the final hit that KOs at 140%. The User enters helpless after using this recovery, having horrible landing lag, so it's best not to spam despite being a good aerial KO move.

Skill Swap
The User focuses all their psychic energy in a area surrounding 1 SBB of The User for a split second. If any foe is in range, The User and that foe both flash white before the foe is released with 2% and set knockback. For 15 seconds, The User and the foe just swapped stats and special mechanics. Feel free to torture the foe using this attack or increase your own mobility, though you suffer a bit of ending lag should you miss.

Snatch
The User enters a counter stance akin to Ike's. During this time, if the foe uses an attack that would damage The User from where they're standing, the foe's attack will fail and they'll suffer the end lag of their attack, while The User uses the attack without any start-up or end lag. Sneaky counter, but atrocious end lag if it misses, you're looking at 1.6 seconds on the menu.

Overheat
The User unleashes all their latent heat, resulting in a heat wave that expands to a smart bomb. Foes caught in it take multiple hits of 6% per second with flinching every 1.5 seconds for as long as you hold the attack. Like Bowser's Fire Breath, the heat wave shrinks til the point of uselessness. The User can get in and out of the attack quickly so they can counter should the foe try to attack you out of the heatwave.

Roost
If used in air, The User enters helpless. Once touching the ground (or if already on ground), The User heals 10%. The healing continues, 5% per second after the initial 10%. The only cost towards this attack is that you cannot use attacks that would send you into the air such as recoveries, and you cannot jump. This means while you can constantly tank, you're completely helpless if offstage. The only way to reverse this effect is to have your damage percentage go back down to 0% by healing. This attack can change your game into becoming a tank if you wish, especially if the foe needs to damage rack on you to get a KO.

Focus Blast
The User focuses their latent fighting energy into a ball akin to a full powered Aura Sphere that is then thrown. The ball travels in a similar fashion to said projectile. But what makes this one special is the fact that it homes in on the foe and does damage based on how many times you've physically struck a foe compared to non-physically. If you've done so 100% of the time, this attack will home in on the foe 100% of the time, being restless until it reaches it's target. Once struck, the foe takes damage and knockback accumulated from 1/3 the total amount of damage/knockback done by all your other physical attacks. Though this amount can get subtracted if you've used non-physical attacks in the match, equal to the total amount of non-physical attacks you've used in comparrison, say 50% or something. This is the same for the homing effect. Oh, and did I mention that this attack CANNOT be avoided? If you're going for a more physical orientated playstyle, use this to finish the foe off from a distance.

Energy Ball
The User creates a....energy ball in front of them. By holding the input, they can move around in a fashion akin to a hammer, but unable to turn around. The ball is the size of a party ball, doing damage to foes who touch it like Aura Sphere, resulting in frontal defence. It's an ENERGY BALL, it sucks up the energy of traps and summons (in other words, the time they can stay on the field and their mobility, power, etc.) by 1/2 and weakens the attacks and movement of foes by the same amount, all if they're in a SBB of the ball. By releasing the input, the ball explodes, creating a blast raduis twice the ball's size. Now, foes hit by this take 4% with near average hitstun for each object's power that was taken. But here's the bad part: not only does this attack have average lag, but all the objects that had their power stolen now recieve it back; 1/2 more for the same amount of time that the object had it's energy stolen. Yet surely smart players will create some nasty combos using this move.

False Swipe
The User slashes forward, creating slash marks in a 3/4 smart bomb radius. This does 2% with no flinching whatsoever, BUT, this attack has virtually no lag, allowing The User to potentially damage rack the foe many times or create the illusion that they're going to attack. This attack also cannot be shielded, and does not go stale.

Brine
Another Sunny Day esque move, this one creating a wave that hits all ground on The User's level when they used it. The wave is 1/2 SBB tall, doing 1% with trapping hitstun for every 1/4 second any player is stuck in it. The wave lasts for 1 second, an additional second for every 15% that you're ahead of the loser (4th place in FFAs). A move that can easily catch the players off-guard, make sure that you don't get caught in the wave.

Fling
The User rushes forward 1/3 Final Destination at binding speed. During this time, any objects that The User goes through are flinged straight up into the air as far as possible, but this will never KO on it's own. The User suffers more lag for the more objects flinged into the air, but otherwise it's a very useful attack for approaching, being only as slow as Fox Illusion....but just don't go offstage, cus otherwise you'll enter helpless.

Charge Beam
The User builds up static electricity, which takes 1/3 of a second. This attack can be used over and over, the electricity becoming more violent as you do so. Should a foe come 1/2 a SBB into contact with you halfway during the build-up, they'll take high hitstun as The User begins to fire thin beams at the foe. These can be aimed in any direction and have the effect of a raygun, allowing you to gimp the foe, but you only get 1 for each time you've used this move. On the good side however, for each beam that misses, 1.8 of the total charging time is added to all your other moves, meaning you can charge them in this way if you wanted to, though hitting the foe with this move isn't the easiest thing to do.

Endure
The User starts to brace for the next attack for as long as the move is held. If hit by an attck in this state, it will only be 1/6 as effective. What keeps it from being broken besides having near no lag is the fact that it only works on the first attack you're hit with while enduring, and every time you're hit by the attack, it becomes a bit more effecttive: 1/5, 1/4, 1/3, 1/2. 1/1, until it increases to 2/1. 3/1 and so on. If you don't use this attack for 30 seconds however, you will be allowed to Endure another attack.

Dragon Pulse
Effectively ripped off from Rayquaza on intense mode: used on ground and it will initiate the ground travelling version (travelling 1 FD) while the aerial version will arc towards the ground and explode upon contact. The ground version does 11% with set knockback while the aerial version does 14% KOing upwards at 90%.

Drain Punch
The User performs a punch akin to Sonic's F-Smash in terms of lag without the charge, but range varies on user. The foe takes 10% with small flinching. as you are healed 1/2 the damage inflicted, which isn't much. Spamming isn't a great idea, as the attack can get incredibly stale, and the stun inflicted on foes eventually becomes a bit futile, they don't really take much in the first place..

Will-O-Wisp
The User creates a blue flame within half a second that's as tall and wide as the user. Using this once places a Will-O-Wisp at the front of The User, while a second time places it at the back, where up to 2 can be placed, each lasting 17 seconds. This fire reduces the power of hitboxes touching it by 1/6 while in it, stopping the foe from having a worthwile close combat game. To further imply this, the Will-O-Wisps can be detonated to burn foes in range of them, causing their power to be halved for 10 seconds for each one, the effect being stackable.

Silver Wind
Another weather effect....only this one multiplies additional effects by 2X, increasing by .5 if used more than once in succesion: 2.5, 3, 3.5. Additionally, the wind blows in the direction The User employed this attack. This is important, as foes facing the wind's direction have their stats cut down to 3/4, but those against the wind have theirs increased by the same amount. Such evil ways to modify the game to your liking...

Embargo
A grab that does set knockback and stops the foe from using items for 50 seconds....nuff said.

Explosion
The most powerful attack of all. First off, The User begins charging power over a 15 second period, whom is free to move around after a 2/3 second animation. Successfully striking with another attack or being struck by a foe's attack decreases the timer by 3 seconds. As The User gains power, their body glows even more to indicate the overpowering. Trying to use the input again allows for The User to grab: from here, they'll hold onto the foe, who has 2X the difficulty of escaping in a hope to suicide KO. Once the timer is up, The User will instantly explode, suffering an instant KO, but leaving behind a powerful blast in a smart bomb radius that does 110% KOing upwards at 8%. But don't worry, damaging the foe further than required is not in vain: for you see, for every 10% the foe has, they don't respawn until 1/2 a second later, allowing you further time to do some very evil set-up work. Become a mainac and turn yourself into a deadly bomb that knows no boundaries...

Shadow Claw
The User slashes forward in a manner similar to Wolf's F-tilt. Though this attack doesn't work under normal circumstances: the foe must be shielding, under Super Amour or invincibility frames for this attack to work. Doing so results in 8% and VERY HIGH hitstun. Comboing this with another powerful move is the way to go.

Payback
What else is meant by "payback?" This attack does the same amount of damage and knockback as the attack you were last hit by...except that this is....A GRAB!! Easy right, just get hit by some powerful move and go for the kill? You'd like that, but Payback only works within 3 seconds of being hit by the attack.

Recycle
The User essentially creates another item they previously held in the same time Link pulls a bomb out. How horrible, use a Pokeball or AT twice in a row....DO NOT LET HIM GET THE SMASH BALL.......

Giga Impact
The User essentially slams forward with all their might. Doing so results in The User suffering from falling over and then getting up for massively horrible ending lag...but some serious pain for the opponent: it does 33% and KOs at 25% if they touch the foe. It has below average start-up lag but ending lag that makes DDD's F-Smash look fast.

Rock Polish
Essentially (getting sick of that word, aren't you?) a clone of Calm Mind and Bulk Up, but increases speed (except traction and ending lag) by 1.2 for every second and worsens traction and ending lag by 1.1 at the same time, gaining a gray aura. Use wisely my boy.

Flash
With little lag, any foe in front of The User takes average hitstun as The User flashes briefly. It could be called a clone of Mewtwo's Disable in fact. Im running out of ideas...

Stone Edge
The User slams the ground in front of them, causing a spear made of stone to appear in front of The User, being the same size as them. It does 23% KOing upwards at 60%. This attack has average start-up and end lag, but very powerful. If used right up to a ledge (when The User is performing the animation for being at the ledge), this attack instead causes the ledge to turn to stone. Foes who try to grab the ledge during the "attacking frame" are spiked into the abyss below for what should be a OHKO. This requires top-notch timing to pull-off, but in the right time it is deadly.

Avalanche
The User slams the ground to summon a pile of snow 1.3 SBBs that falls from the top of the screen that lands in front of The User, doing 7% with an average powered spike if it hits a foe. Snow lasts for 10 seconds, reducing characters to their walking speed and stopping any attacks that give them ground momentum such as dash attacks. The attack has some start-up lag to prevent it from being a completely fall-proof gimp move.

This attack is completely different in air. The User instead goes through a stall then fall that's essentially ripped straight from Bowser Bomb. The only difference is that foes in the way are dragged along with the foe for a suicide KO that's 3X more difficult to escape in grab terms. Foes who are hit while on ground or if The User hits ground with a grabbed foe take 19% that KOs upwards at 90%.

Thunder Wave
Here's an attack that's just as painful as in the game itself. The User creates static electricity around them before they fire a wave of electricity akin to Water Pulse. But as the wave goes through traps and summons, it disables them for 3.6 seconds, gaining double speed, height and distance in the process for each one. The wave doesn't do anything to injure the foe, but it leaves behind electricity in it's path for 5 seconds, as well as in a area where you were when you used the attack. Anything in the electricity has a 4/8 of it's attack failing with some average hitstun as punishment. This affects both characters, and disables projectiles that get into the field, so both players have to enter close combat. Yet even with the luck factor, for each trap/summon that was disabled during the projectile's wake, that player has a greater chance of an attack failing, say 1 trap equals 5/8, 2 traps 6/8 and so on.

Gyro Ball
This attack is a rip off of Jigglypuff's rollout, except if held on the ground for 1 second after charging, The User will start to drill through the ground at 1 SBB per second, falling to their demise if they actually go through the stage. If this move is released while drilling through the ground, The User will roll upwards instead of sideways, acting as a deadly anti-aerial that can KO quite early. Just be very careful of the helpless state you enter. As for the trench, it can be used as a wall to hide under or something, but the stage returns to normal in 20 seconds.

Swords Dance
A clone of MK's Standard, but with X2 the range and lag, falling speed is 1/4 while in air. While slashing and if a foe is being attacked, you can tap the control stick in any direction for The User to move forward 2 SBB in the chosen direction, doing 6% with set knockback upwards. Does not leave The User helpless, so it's a great anti-gimping move.

Stealth Rock
The User jumps on the spot akin to Charizard's D-Smash. From here, a stone as wide as The User is laid in the ground the attack is used. For 30 seconds, if the foe steps in that area, the stone causes 1% and flinching to them. Only 2 can exist at a time. A trap that can prove useful in pestering foes since it doesn't go away until the time is up or it's destroyed, forcing foes to jump.

Psych Up
A grab move, the only difference apart from one such as Thief is that The User gains any additional effects or boosts of the grabbed foe.

Captivate
The User uses their cuteness to try and somewhat successfully seduce the foe. A clone of Calm Mind/Bulk Up/Rock Polish surprisingly that increases resistance to knockback and hitstun by 1.1 as a alternative, white aura. It also makes The User look more cute, or sexually appealing in some cases. Some people might use this just for that, or as a buff.

Dark Pulse
A 2 second charge and store move, The User unleashes their inner darkness, travelling Ike's dash speed on both sides of The User (the attack ressembles a black ring that circulates around them, though it's not very tall or wide) for 1.5-5 SBB. Contact with a foe does 4% with above average hitstun. The attack doesn't have much lag, so at high charges The User can use this attack's stun to follow up another attack on the foe.

Rock Slide
The User jumps into the air up to the same amount as their total jumping height. This is strictly a vertical only recovery that sends The User into helpless, but if The User ends up reaching the top blast zone, something special will happen: The User will be dismissed from battle, and rocks start falling from the top of the screen, akin to Pokeball Onix's attack from the original Super Smash Bros, lasting 1.2 seconds for every 10% The User has. After the rockfall, The User falls back to earth in their helpless and cannot use this attack for 4 seconds for every second they were hurling rocks. This is one epic attack if you can pull it off by forcing your foe to knock you up into the air: while most lightweights can easily get into the air and get into the action, heavyweights tend to have a more difficult time, but by the time they're up there they should have a large damage percentage. Sweet move for the win. Use with Captivate for large-scale epicness.

X-Scissor
The User enters a defensive stance with their arms in a X shape for 1/2 a second, blocking all frontal attacks. Afterwards, The User performs a lightning-quick slash that does 18% that KOs at 70%. An excellent defensive move in some cases, but you'd better hit with the slash because otherwise you'll suffer average end lag.

Sleep Talk
The User performs one of their random ground attacks while sleeping, essentially. Not really something you want to risk, eh?

Natural Gift
Can only be used while holding an weapon item. For 15 seconds, The User can only use attacks involving that item, but the range, damage, knockback and added effects are all tripled. Go wild in items battles, but it's a risky move to use.

Poison Jab
The User performs a quick jab that does 6% with above average hitstun. A rather severely broken attack, it's fast, good range, allows you to follow up another attack and can infinite for a few hits. But every attack has to be balanced: the more you use this, the more ending lag you recieve at the end due to having to recover the poison used.

Dream Eater
A grab that only works on sleeping foes (or foes who are already asleep naturally like Abra or Chthullu). The attack does 3% to the foe and heals you the same per 1/2 second, and foes cannot escape under normal circumstances until they awake, in which they can escape under normal difficulty (it's 4X more difficult for naturally sleeping foes to escape).

Grass Knot
Now for some fun. The User brings out a grassy rope and flings it upwards like a tether as good as Olimar's best Pikmin rope. It's generic, but spikes foes who are hit by it. The heavier they are (you should have seen this coming), the more powerful the spike is, essentially 5-24% that KOs at 250-70%. Murderous as a gimping tool. It's the only real prop Pokemon attack for non-grass type Pokemon.

Swagger

Instead of targeting the foe, you use this on yourself for some reason. Your power essentially doubles but there's a 1/2 chance that you'll take 1/2 the damage you would have inflicted. This lasts for 15 seconds, and works very well with some of your other attacks. Make sure you don't miss however, cus you'll take massive damage as a projectile spammer.

Pluck
Essentially a grab and throw (thief), but steals one of the foe's buffs at random, but does not work against mechanics.

U-Turn
The User essentially performs the horizontal version of Aerial Ace, travelling forward 1.5 SBB before returning to the same position upon timing the input. This version is a great approach move that can catch the foe off-guard. It does not leave The User helpless so it acts as a extra jump.

Substitute
None of that Substitution Justsu stuff here from Naruto. Instead, this is another Calm Mind esque buff move with a raimbow aura. This one has a special effect: if one of your melee or projectile attacks is out-prioritized by the foe, The User will immediately perform that attack again without any lag. In the right times this attack can potentially make you a monster.

Flash Cannon
The User slams the ground with a super-powered slam, doing 9% with average stun to foes 1/2 a SBB in range of The User. In addition, the whole screen flashes white for 2 seconds so it becomes impossible for players to see anything.

If used in air, The User fires a Pokeball-sized orb downwards while suspended in mid-air for the duration, the orb travelling infinitely at Gannon's dash. The orb has the same effect as above once it makes contact with something.

Both versions have a bit of start-up but generally no end. Mostly designed for launching surprise attacks.

Trick Room
Another Sunny Day esque move, but this only affects a smart bomb in front of The User, inverting the stats, controls and hitstun of any player inside it. Bring the fight to your own rules using this nasty move.

Cut
The User cuts in front of them for almost no lag. Anything to do with the stage ranging from a platform in front of The User is automatically destroyed and does not respawn for 30 seconds. If The User is underneath a platform, it will be targeted and destroyed instead. You can destroy up to 6 SBB's in size worth using this attack at a time to cleave the stage's size how you see fit. HM attacks are designed not to be attacks, but more so convenience tools, as they were in the games. They have almost no lag when executing.

Fly
This move is essentially ROB's Up-Special ripped off. Use this as a recovery purpose, hehe.

Surf
Another charge and store move, The User is pushed forward by a small wave underneath them at Gannon-Capt Falcon's dash speed for 1/2 Final Destination. The User can use their ground move while doing this so it makes a great approach. Or it can be used as a weak recovery in mid-air. Allows you to travel on water.

Strength
The User performs a shove that can be charged and automatically released for 1 second. Items, summons or traps that get in the way are pushed forward at Gannon-Sonic dash speed for 1-5 SBB. They can even do damage to the foe in the same was as a rolling crate can damage foes, making it somewhat worthwile using.

Defog
Until The User is next attacked, this attack essentially zooms the camera out as far as possible, getting rid of smoke and fog attacks in the short process. Not much to say about it but the attack can be incredibly annoying.

Rock Smash
With the same lag as Charizard's any traps within a SBB in front are destroyed. Nothing too special.

Waterfall
The User essentially leaps back to where they last were last standing. This is not instantaneous, rather moving at Mario's dash speed and the spot they'll re-position themselves glowing blue, so this is gimpable as a recovery. It's also great as a retreat but cannot be used for 10 seconds afterwards.

Rock Climb
Essentially just like Surf, except it can only be used right up against a wall, in which The User will climb up the wall in the same manner as Surf, able to lauch aerial attacks. Use continuously to climb the wall for a infinite amount of height.

 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,911
ABRA

SPADEFOX

Goddamn. Makes sense that you’d redo Spadefox seeing he’s essentially one of your “favorite characters”, though most of the time we’re just making sets for our favorite characters because they’re out favorite characters. (Read: Envy, Rena) . . .Oh wait, Ridley’s your favorite character and you haven’t forced a good set for him while Spadefox has actual potential. Right.

VVVRelevant CommentaryVVV

You don’t need me to tell you about the crazy creativity going on in this set, much less when you have such a diverse character to work with. The glorious usmash/uair combo returns from the original while being complemented with two more glorious additions in nair and fthrow (Regardless of the later being rather overpowered). The Side Special as I mentioned before you left the chat is absolutely beautiful, and the way it links into utilt/fsmash also is quite a sight to behold.

It’s quite hard to talk about move creativity without going into all the move interactions the set has. It’s very deeply interconnected in a Sloth-like manner. While some of the move interactions form into multiple little sets of interactions that don’t have that much to do with each other, there are smooth transitions that allow Spadefox to swap between them with ease such as dthrow, which brings us into the playstyle itself, which does a very good job of bringing all of these things together.

While you do an excellent job of explaining it, I rather wish the usmash/uair/nair/fthrow interaction set and Up Special (Which feels just kind of there to me and is difficult to understand) played a bigger role while I’m not that much a fan of the Down Special and claw attacks. Even with the guard dog part taken out there’d still be a lot left and the Down Special itself is a pretty independent move seeing the claw attacks on their own are pretty irrelevant and never primary move effects. I found it didn’t contribute much or interact much outside itself outside forcing approaches (And he can shred the defenses of the defensive characters he’d want to make approach already) while I would’ve loved that earlier mentioned foursome of moves brought in somehow in it’s place. Granted, it does give Spade a defensive option, but considering his offense is so much better and he can still be knocked off the chain at KO percents anyway, smeh.

I dunno why I went on so long about that, eh. Ultimately I just don't like Down Special and Up Special. Oh no, two moves, so terrible. The rest of it flows pretty well with it basically being position yourself and the foe to your liking while using the scythe as a constant and ever present threat, though with there being opportunities for you to swap between some other options when you so choose, what with picking up and putting down the scythe and my favorite series of interactions hovering around. The scythe is the main thing that spruces up Spade’s core from a standard spacer, as he can take advantage of it from pretty much any damn position the foe decides to put themselves in.

^^^Relevant Commentary

I think I actually enjoyed having match-ups against the Joker and Al more-so then against my current characters if only so I could refresh my memory on them after all this time. Getting more what you were saying about the Joker before, he certainly seems to have more of a playstyle then Dimentio. Dimentio is just traps – at least Joker has the grab game in addition. Sure, Joker has his completely irrelevant inputs, but so does Dimentio. Look at that fsmash! (Shock)

Methinks Joe’s gonna have a field day with the “extras”, but in any case this set brings back all the more memories of Playing God. . .How I miss HR SMs. The set definitely has a very nostalgic air about it what with being a remake, but considering it’s a character from a SM 3 MYMs ago. . .Yeah. Wow. And I read this moveset the moment it was posted, but the filter ultimately beat my commentary writing so I had to wait to post this until today.
 
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