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Luigi's Superpunch methodology

Galt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
286
Location
Austin, TX
I'm not a Luigi main, or even secondary, but I do play him rather frequently, more as a theoretical study than as a serious character. As such, this thread is geared toward theory--specifically, that of the elusive sweetspotted up-B. I want to discuss my four methods for landing the up-B which I've found to be at least occasionally effective, and send you all out to test them yourselves and see what results you can get.

As such, my methods are as follows:
1) Wavedash > jab > up-B -- I hit with this all the time, usually at least once a match (yes, against other actually good players here in Austin), but I never see it in Luigi guides. This is, without a doubt, the best setup for the superpunch. Space properly, or catch someone falling out of the air, and, especially against floaty characters, this is very easy to land. But you *must* space the wavedash properly.
2) Wavedash > spotdodge > up-B -- I've found this to be most effective against Marths. Time it properly and anticipate the f-smash or any other laggy attack, or something like Samus's missiles, dodge the attack and connect directly with the up-B. Always a crowd-pleaser.
3) Knock the opponent down > wavejab to make him stand up > up-B -- This one's situational at best and tough to time correctly or pull off at all, but all the same, it can work. Good luck testing this one.
4) Ledge-hopped up-B -- As also seen in a fairly recent thread. Possibly useful against people like Peach players who tend to crowd the ledge. In most cases, you've got loads of better choices for attacks from the ledge, and in the worse case, you may even be propelled to your death by a shield. Be careful with this one.

I tend to turn away from my opponent when using the up-B, as you would with Marth, so that I fly away from him in the case of shielding. It won't protect you, exactly, but it'll help, especially if you can land on a platform.

The basic point behind this thread is that the superpunch is clearly underutilized. It's far less risky than Jigglypuff's Rest, though a successful hit is obviously less effective in most cases. So go out and give some of these a shot.
 

El HP

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
523
Location
Managua, Nicaragua
Yeah those methods are the most effective to succefully connect the up-b good job is always risky but rewarding if done right.
 

Galt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
286
Location
Austin, TX
One thing I didn't mention about the wavejab > up-B is that it has more than one purpose. The most obvious is to land the superpunch, but if you hit with the jab at all, you should nearly always have a free follow-up. If your opponent knows you want the superpunch (say you've hit him with it once already, or you like to jab > d-smash), he'll see that he was jabbed and put up a shield to block your next attack. That's when you have a free grab. And after that, he'll be watching for grabs and will try to escape, so you can generally follow with a superpunch or another jab (they are very quick in succession, after all) into the up-B or grab. The idea is to put on the pressure. And then your opponent might get start, and start rolling away. That's when you wavedash through him with the jab (different spacing) and follow with a reversed f-tilt/grab/d-smash from behind. There are lots of options based around just this one pattern, because Luigi's wavedash is so useful. Change up your strategies and keep your opponent guessing, and you'll make him very nervous.

When you make someone get angry and say that the jab > up-B is cheap, you know you've succeeded.
 

nublet06

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
1,781
Location
Sherman Oaks, CA (Palmdale 4 lyfe)
i hit with the up b in the air more than i do on the ground. i would only use the jab to up b in certain matchups of serious play.

bowser.....ganon......peach.....and MAYBE jiggs if i really wanted to widen the gap of my lead. im guessing it would be useful on zelda too, but besides that other characters are too hard to connect with for the risk.
 

Galt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
286
Location
Austin, TX
I've never had a problem with it only working on certain characters. The floatier/larger characters are obviously easier, but the others just mean your spacing and luck have to be better. Marth is a big target. Samus likes to crouch cancel, so she's easy to hit. I often catch Falcon players just beginning a jump with the jab. I wouldn't really use it on the space animals, but those are about the only two examples.

I'll put it this way: once, Xelic (of Austin fame, for those of you not from the South) was going to prove to me that the jab > up-B combo doesn't work, so he had a guy play DK against him. He 4-stocked the guy using almost nothing but the superpunch. Not some random n00b; it was a guy who plays with us all the time (hi Leo).
 

El HP

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
523
Location
Managua, Nicaragua
It's a shame the up-b loses its power in midair otherwise it would be great against fast fallers using a launcher to up-b would be a good tactic.
 

nublet06

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
1,781
Location
Sherman Oaks, CA (Palmdale 4 lyfe)
i do it all the time.

sex kick > up b

you can only get the ping hit on fast fallers everyone else you have to jump up and do the weaker one.

my friends call it the "ROFL combo" because i do it so much but im sure plenty of people do it.

I try to only do it on yoshis story and pokemone stadium tho, unless i see the opportunity on a high platform or else it wont kill.
 

Pakman

WWMD
BRoomer
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At about 40-50% fast fallers (fox/falco/sometimes falcon) can get hit twice by the down B and if not DI'ed properly can be shoryukened (up B). This is what my fellow smashers have dubbed "the pakman combo".

I don't like to up B alot because it is easy punishable. Marth players get free f smashes if you miss and have no platforms to land on. I usually rely on some version of side step up B if I am going for it. I also have had success from predicting tech rolls. I have hit up B a few times doing the triple jab into someones shield and up B-ing their attempted chain grab, but its risky and should only be used for showing off purposes.

I don't like using the up B when it is not a death blow. Usually you can get a safer more damaging combo using the other moves in luigi's arsenal.

I have never tried the ledge hop up B. Are you talking about jumping up and going for the up B in the air or jumping up wave landing into an up B?
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
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Portland, Oregon
I think he means the air, but yeah his up b does like 25 damage so even in the air it might be worth using instead of a fair or dair even if it wont kill, although dair usually puts you into edgeguard possition so it still might be more effective.
 

El HP

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
523
Location
Managua, Nicaragua
i do it all the time.

sex kick > up b

you can only get the ping hit on fast fallers everyone else you have to jump up and do the weaker one.

my friends call it the "ROFL combo" because i do it so much but im sure plenty of people do it.

I try to only do it on yoshis story and pokemone stadium tho, unless i see the opportunity on a high platform or else it wont kill.
Yep the problem is that works at low percentages making imposible to kill with it or like you mention only on high platforms for example you hit a fox about 60% with a nair or dsmash he will be send out of the ping reach it would be great for luigi to keep the up-b power in midair like in smash64 hopefully in brawl he will get it back it could work like fox u-air.
 

nublet06

Smash Lord
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Jan 23, 2006
Messages
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Sherman Oaks, CA (Palmdale 4 lyfe)
Yep the problem is that works at low percentages making imposible to kill with it or like you mention only on high platforms for example you hit a fox about 60% with a nair or dsmash he will be send out of the ping reach it would be great for luigi to keep the up-b power in midair like in smash64 hopefully in brawl he will get it back it could work like fox u-air.
ROFL combo never fails. :p
 

Galt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
286
Location
Austin, TX
You shouldn't underestimate the power of psyching out your opponent with flashy techniques. Everyone assumes a Luigi player is going to be fairly weak, because there are so few. If you can land an early superpunch, I guarantee he's going to reevaluate you as a player. And if he goes into the match knowing you're pretty good, you can get a psychological edge on him by being able to show him things he's never seen done. Make him second-guess his own confidence and make him worry about what other moves you might have in store. In a tournament setting, for players who haven't been to too many events, confidence can make all the difference between getting shaky and blowing your tech skill or playing as solidly as you would against a friend.

In other words, be as flashy as you feel comfortable being, and if it doesn't work, back off. But also don't make the mistake of thinking the up-B is all flash and no substance.
 

Professor X

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
180
Location
Atlanta
Awesome video. And hey, you used the falling tornado aerial defense. I do that too, but I hadn't really seen it in videos.
 

Smash G 0 D

Leave Luck to Heaven
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
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Charlottesville, VA
Landing Pings really isn't too hard. At the tourney I went to a couple days ago I played like 100 friendlies with Luigi and landed atleast 1 or 2 pings in most of them. Just wait for the opportune moment, then BANG! People around you will start laughing and the person you just hit :p
 

Randall00

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Slippi.gg
RJM#615
A lot of Luigi players seem to only have success against certain characters, but I seem to hit almost everyone, you're right. It was to the point that some players from the other side of the country (who were all plainly much better than I am) we're noticeably embarrassed to be struck by it. It might be more heavily dependent on players that just aren't used to Luigi, but even so, it's not something you see everywhere, even amongst Luigi mains.
 

Jhop

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
10
I like what you've done here i never use Up-B in any of my combos but you've given me a few ways to try
 

Pakman

WWMD
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Any of you fellow weegie players up B outta shield?

Recently, I was playing a samus who dash attacked way too much. I found it very easy to shoryuken him by shielding his attack and doing up B outta shield. He may have just been a a super scrub, but I feel this move has potential.
 

Randall00

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Slippi.gg
RJM#615
That's also delicious against dash-attack-happy Sheiks, but due to Luigi's slippery nature, the knockback from shield hitstun alone is enough to put you well out of range most of the time.
 

Pakman

WWMD
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That's also delicious against dash-attack-happy Sheiks, but due to Luigi's slippery nature, the knockback from shield hitstun alone is enough to put you well out of range most of the time.
What is the shield knock back of a powershield? Like, do you slide more or less if you powershield?
 

MorbTheLuigi

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
603
Location
California 818
the only time i like getting the "super punch" is when im holding on to the edge and they're right in front of me
cuz i can just fall back down and grab on to the ledge so i wont lag when i get back up
 

EazyP

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
588
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San Mateo, CA
Maybe something to consider, I got up throw and down throw to combo into a Supar Punch on a Falcon player at higher percents. Yes he messed up his DI, but still, something to take into account for people like me who throw out Super Punches 24/7

I also broke his shield with repeated Super Punches, so now we gotz new sheildbrake techniquekz
 

Vitamin X

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
230
Location
Fort Worth
I'm not a Luigi main, or even secondary, but I do play him rather frequently, more as a theoretical study than as a serious character. As such, this thread is geared toward theory--specifically, that of the elusive sweetspotted up-B. I want to discuss my four methods for landing the up-B which I've found to be at least occasionally effective, and send you all out to test them yourselves and see what results you can get.

As such, my methods are as follows:
1) Wavedash > jab > up-B -- I hit with this all the time, usually at least once a match (yes, against other actually good players here in Austin), but I never see it in Luigi guides. This is, without a doubt, the best setup for the superpunch. Space properly, or catch someone falling out of the air, and, especially against floaty characters, this is very easy to land. But you *must* space the wavedash properly.
2) Wavedash > spotdodge > up-B -- I've found this to be most effective against Marths. Time it properly and anticipate the f-smash or any other laggy attack, or something like Samus's missiles, dodge the attack and connect directly with the up-B. Always a crowd-pleaser.
3) Knock the opponent down > wavejab to make him stand up > up-B -- This one's situational at best and tough to time correctly or pull off at all, but all the same, it can work. Good luck testing this one.
4) Ledge-hopped up-B -- As also seen in a fairly recent thread. Possibly useful against people like Peach players who tend to crowd the ledge. In most cases, you've got loads of better choices for attacks from the ledge, and in the worse case, you may even be propelled to your death by a shield. Be careful with this one.

I tend to turn away from my opponent when using the up-B, as you would with Marth, so that I fly away from him in the case of shielding. It won't protect you, exactly, but it'll help, especially if you can land on a platform.

The basic point behind this thread is that the superpunch is clearly underutilized. It's far less risky than Jigglypuff's Rest, though a successful hit is obviously less effective in most cases. So go out and give some of these a shot.
The first one, I've tried, and it works if you can get close enough to hit the jab without getting hit first.

The second one, I've also tried, but it runs into problems due to opponents SHFFL'ing frequently and not being on the ground to get hit.

I haven't tried the other two, but I've also wondered why so many high-level Luigis don't use his Sworyuken. Incidentally, I used to use Luigi, but I'm lousy with him, mainly due to execution problems.
 
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