Lucina/ Marth

[ConeZ]

How do we deal with them with Falcon. I have beaten a few because I was better than them, but I have a friend who I go 50/50 with otherwise that plays Lucina, and I can't beat it with my Falcon because of the superior spacing options and whatnot.
I went back and beat it with G&W, but that is a different matchup.

I think these things should be talked about because Falcon is good, and it would benefit us to have good ways of dealing with characters like Lucina especially.
I'd shield in my approaches more, but the shield breaker...

 

[victra♥]

First thing I want to say is that I don't think Marth or Lucina are good in Smash 4 at all (And I play regularly with KillL0ck who is one of Canada's best Brawl players and Brawl Marth players, in Smash 4 where he still mains Marth).

Falcon has the same advantages against Marth (and Lucina) as he does in Melee (and PM). Their moves have big commitments are easily shielded and shield grabbed, as well as dash attacked during their cool down (and you can trade their aerials with dash attack to get the % and position advantage. Dash shield approaches, if you see the shield breaker from them you can roll and they wont be able to punish you due to the cool down of it. With that in mind, if the start to beat your shield because they're catching on, you can roll asap behind and drop your shield into gentleman or even grab.

Once Marth and Lucina are airborne, just like in Melee, they will get easily juggled not only due to their weight, but because they do not have options to trade with your uair.

 

[Z3N1TH]

You might be right on some of that, but not on the easily juggled. They can easily counter pretty much any of Falcons attacks while airborne, especially the knee since it is a pretty telegraphed move.

 

[Weeman]

You might be right on some of that, but not on the easily juggled. They can easily counter pretty much any of Falcons attacks while airborne, especially the knee since it is a pretty telegraphed move.

But that's good for you, since you can bait them into using counter and punish accordingly. Mind games are inmportant.

 

[Z3N1TH]

But that's good for you, since you can bait them into using counter and punish accordingly. Mind games are inmportant.

Oh, for sure. Its definitely easy to play around them, but that post made it sound like they were just free to juggle in the air.

 

[victra♥]

i stand by what i said. if they start countering in the air like a scrub, you can just bait it out and punish them. Good marth's wouldn't risk committing to a move like counter in the air, especially against characters with strong punishes like Falcon.

You don't see marth's use counter when getting juggled against falcon at top melee play for a reason. It's no different for smash 4.

 

[Z3N1TH]

Maybe you are right, but its something I have seen. In general, counters seem better in this game. if nothing else, its something to be aware of.

 

[Masonomace]

Depending on the given situation of stage control, position, the percentages, how far away they are off-screen or off-stage, all of it factors into how effective counter would be. Counter could be the one thing we want if they're far off in the distant land of off-screen, that Counter would gimp themselves after the stall-then-fall effect happens.

So if Falcon wants to hunt the Marth / Lucina off-stage because why the **** not, Falcon has stage presence & edge-guards fairly easy. We have Falcon Dive to grab through their counter frame window if they actually try to Down-B parry for a optional mix-up after U-airs. And yes Up-B is risky, but if you condition them, opting to counter ASAP because your Uair strings are getting on the Marth's / Lucina's nerves, then a Parry may happen, which is why Falcon Dive will answer, "HYESZ".

Counters did improved, which is why it's smart to be aware of them. If anything we can use the Pulling-back Raptor Boost to mind-game their parry.

 

[ConeZ]

Depending on the given situation of stage control, position, the percentages, how far away they are off-screen or off-stage, all of it factors into how effective counter would be. Counter could be the one thing we want if they're far off in the distant land of off-screen, that Counter would gimp themselves after the stall-then-fall effect happens.

So if Falcon wants to hunt the Marth / Lucina off-stage because why the **** not, Falcon has stage presence & edge-guards fairly easy. We have Falcon Dive to grab through their counter frame window if they actually try to Down-B parry for a optional mix-up after U-airs. And yes Up-B is risky, but if you condition them, opting to counter ASAP because your Uair strings are getting on the Marth's / Lucina's nerves, then a Parry may happen, which is why Falcon Dive will answer, "HYESZ".

Counters did improved, which is why it's smart to be aware of them. If anything we can use the Pulling-back Raptor Boost to mind-game their parry.

Only problem I have with that version is that it is weaker, and once the opponent figures it out, it isn't a mind-game, it is just slower and weaker. The first version of the move is over-all better imo because it has a good knockback and KO's ata good percent, good distance on the move, and it comes out fast enough for punishes

IDK, I feel like they didn't really give Falcon that many great customs.