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Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

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Shaya

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Is it narcissistic that you understood, related and reflected onto one's existence a theme in writing or film?
Probably.
RAWRRR I'M A DINOSAUR

Just say "Murphy's Law", but
You better somehow make all commands reference a central place the geeks can edit titles, descriptions, parameter names/types~
 
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internetmovieguy

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I'm going to mostly copy my post from the Marth general thread/Marth changes thread/old patch thread:

LUCINA:

All Marth changes apply to her

Lucina sometimes say "ha" while doing up B

Lucina's Ftilt now does somewhere between 10.51% and 10.99%, up from 9.97%

With Utilt back to it's Brawl glory (not Melee though, that was broken) and the best jab Marth has ever had (LIKE SERIOUSLY THIS JAB 1 CAN PUT YOU IN FOX JAB SITUATIONS), Marth was once again buffed and in my opinion he can hold a candle to Roy. People have been saying otherwise.

_______________________


Since then I found out Lucina makes noises during Counter attack and back hit of Utilt combos into front hit (after turnaround)

Hopefully you can trust me Shaya, I have no proof except kill percents but I know what changes. I found the last Marth changes in the previous patch
Lucina says "Your Mine" when countering (tested against marth). She used to *grunt* "hu-HA".
https://youtu.be/uWaTzoBBAbw?t=7m52s (proof from prepatch at 7m52s he counter's twice in a row)
i don't have a video of 1.0.8 lucina but it should be easy enough to confirm.
 

Shaya

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I definitely believe you but am too salty at marth likely still not doing the same to acknowledge it.
Or maybe I haven't usually been listing cosmetic changes.

I'll note it just for you though :p
 

FlynnCL

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Apologies for the potato quality as I lost my good camcorder, but this is to show that something has definitely changed with Diddy's grab since 1.0.4.

Top is 1.0.4, bottom is 1.0.8;

 

Thinkaman

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You better somehow make all commands reference a central place the geeks can edit titles, descriptions, parameter names/types~
Whoa nelly, this is a parsing script on my computer I made in two hours, not some dynamic web app with a wiki-based templating and rendering system.
 
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Thinkaman

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Samus Zelda usmash hitboxes all 0.5 bigger, link usmash hitboxes have reconfigured IDs/bones and slight size increases.

Link dthrow damage reduced from 7 total to 6 total and angle changed from 110 to 83, growth from 90 to 85, base stayed at 60
 

TSM ZeRo

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This is disgusting. All they did to Diddy is sickening. At least the character isn't campy like our current top 2 characters are.

@ TSM ZeRo TSM ZeRo you should drop him
I know, it only works cause I do my super best with him, but he's gotten so butchered especially this patch


I have to say the diddy nerf was so unnecessary. I actually wonder though? Could it acutally be because since zero and m2k won that tournament in japan with diddy that sakurai decided that diddy needed to be even more nerfed then he already is?
Yeah, falcon getting nerfed because sakurai saw me and m2k play him in finals is a good indicator. We went falcon to make the crowd get hype...


Diddy was still kind of stupid.
No worries though, it's not like he's going to become the next Greninja or anything....right?
He's fine as he is now, let's just hope they leave him alone from this point on. Or at least, when it comes to nerfs.
No he's not. They butchered his juggles, his throws, his kill confirms, his spacing, his damage output, knockback, and everything dude. Today I up threw someone at 130 on smashville when i was around 40 and it didn't kill. I read their air dodge went for it again and then it killed. How the hell is that fine? Diddy was worse than the top 5 pre patch, and he's stupid? Luigi, Pikachu, Sheik?!? Please. Just, please.

I talked to a bunch of top players and we all agree this nerf was targeted at me. Literally.


Apologies for the potato quality as I lost my good camcorder, but this is to show that something has definitely changed with Diddy's grab since 1.0.4.

Top is 1.0.4, bottom is 1.0.8;

I'm so freaking mad. WHy the hell is this necessary.
 
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~ Gheb ~

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Falcon bein nerfed is a myth to my knowledge. I think his uair is still the same.

Diddy is the only character that actually got a noticeable nerf. Everybody else was either buffed or got some minor adjustments.

:059:
 

Snokros

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diddy getting nerfed this time was silly. we can't just sit around and hope sakurai changes his mind! we need to do something about this! (proceeds to do nothing)... most of the patch was great though.
 
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Quickhero

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diddy getting nerfed this time was unjustified and silly. we can't just sit around and hope sakurai changes his mind! we need to do something about this! (proceeds to do nothing)
Nothing we can do, unfortunately. Let's just give the meta time, I'm sure dedicated Diddy mains can utilize the jab buff and d-throw buff. Why beg for changes when we can be discovering things that will improve Diddy Kong!
 
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Shaya

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Hitbox changes on Zelda/Samus up smashes were perhaps 1.06 (at least we noted differences there)

Here's a quick list of hitbox changes that were apparently noted from then:
Marth/Lucina dancing blade
DK Jab
Charizard forward air
Samus Ftilt gaining an extra hitbox?
Doctor Mario Up Smash
Zelda Fsmash
Robin Wind Jab
Falcon down angled forward smash
G&W Up tilt


Bowser Jr Fsmash
Falco Up smash
Peach Down Throw (this is one you were meant to fight to the death on)
 

KuroganeHammer

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Personally I highly doubt Sakurai even batted an eyelid at ZeRo when he was playing. Accusing it as nerfs targeted at him is a little bit egotistical imo~

@ Thinkaman Thinkaman we'll be able to see your mastercore clone soon yes?
 

SapphSabre777

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I wake up, and now we have people with side-by-side comparisons of moves, and people analyzing raw data. All I can say is thank you for your efforts at this. It means a lot to the community.

I've been testing out Kirby's stuff, and I don't think there is any more changes except for the aforementioned one listed on the first post. I guess only time will tell, then, and a run-through of the data.
 

Bladen

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Link Main here. Patch 1.0.6 had removed Link's down tilt spike if I'm correct. Patch 1.0.8 brought it back. Fully tested with CPUs and For Glory matches
 

Shaya

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Personally I highly doubt Sakurai even batted an eyelid at ZeRo when he was playing. Accusing it as nerfs targeted at him is a little bit egotistical imo~
I don't think you realise how upset he was to see Dedede lose to "low risk moves [that] gradually deal damage to the opponent"
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/the-act-of-balancing-sakurai-famitsu-column-vol-480/

As much as it is a bit egotistical to assume like this, that event definitely had impact on Sakurai's psyche. Heck the entire article was the most direct contextually relevant to current competitive players stuff I've seen him write.


At least, as long as I'm using this article to bolster the undeniable fact Sakurai reads my posts, I'll back ZeRo here just a little :p
 
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KuroganeHammer

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I don't think you realise how upset he was to see Dedede lose to "low risk moves [that] gradually deal damage to the opponent"
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/the-act-of-balancing-sakurai-famitsu-column-vol-480/

As much as it is a bit egotistical to assume like this, that event definitely had impact on Sakurai's psyche. Heck the entire article was the most direct contextually relevant to current competitive players stuff I've seen him write.


At least, as long as I'm using this article to bolster the undeniable fact Sakurai reads my posts, I'll back ZeRo here just a little :p
It's better that we agree to disagree right now. That article just says that he saw a tournament and found it boring af because there weren't blast boxes and bob-ombs on high with 4 falcons in a free for all pressing nothing but neutral B.

Also here's some OP stuff for you:

Charizard Jab 1: Higher WBKB
Lucario Jab 1 & 2: Uses WBKB now instead of BKB
 

NatP

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I don't think you realise how upset he was to see Dedede lose to "low risk moves [that] gradually deal damage to the opponent"
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/the-act-of-balancing-sakurai-famitsu-column-vol-480/

As much as it is a bit egotistical to assume like this, that event definitely had impact on Sakurai's psyche. Heck the entire article was the most direct contextually relevant to current competitive players stuff I've seen him write.
So he really hates "low risk moves [that] gradually deal damage to the opponent" and yet Shiek is is seemingly untouched? :p
 

deepseadiva

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It happens a lot in fine art that artists will have subtle influences on each other.

I consider Zero and Sakurai too important gaming figures right now. One an incredible player, and another a legendary game designer. If those two were in the same room playing Smash, it's hard to believe they wouldn't have an effect on each other.

It's something that could have happened. Nothing anyone can prove. Funny how people can still argue about these things.
 

TheHypnotoad

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Can I have a clarification on something? So Diddy's uair had the base KB increased and the KB scaling decreased. The ramifications of this are that it does not combo into itself anymore, and it is more difficult to kill with. Is this correct?
 
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Shaya

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So he really hates "low risk moves [that] gradually deal damage to the opponent" and yet Shiek is is seemingly untouched? :p
We honestly should've all told ZeRo to play Sheik in Japan at least once.
But yeah, who knows. This is the only patch Sheik hasn't been touched in thus far. With dominance in Japan and possibly a similar prospect in NA during the summer with both Ramin and ZeRo around, we may finally see some beautiful consistency.
 
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KuroganeHammer

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Can I have a clarification on something? So Diddy's uair had the base KB increased and the KB scaling decreased. The ramifications of this are that it does not combo into itself anymore, and it is more difficult to kill with. Is this correct?
Yes, pretty much.
 

Schiffe

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I would like to help in some capacity but I'm not sure how useful I would be to you.
To be honest with you, all I really did was to provide the Fighter Data Files from 1.07 and 1.08 to him because I had access to them. I needed to check for myself if there was anything unused/new in the files, but there isn't much.


Anyways, Thinkaman knows stuff far beyond my knowledge of the code. He knows which Hexadecimal is related to which bone ID, the damage factor, etc..

This whole thing is insanely complicated to me, as I barely understand any of this mess in the Hex Code. I, for my part, mostly tried to compare the files from 1.07 and 1.08 see if I could find any differences. It ain't so easy as it seems, but I try.
 

Camalange

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Schiffe

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Quick question: Has the knockback increase on Game & Watch's down tilt been 100% confirmed?

If so, where may I find the verification of it?


EDIT: Nevermind that, move on.
 
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BltzZ

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I know, it only works cause I do my super best with him, but he's gotten so butchered especially this patch



Yeah, falcon getting nerfed because sakurai saw me and m2k play him in finals is a good indicator. We went falcon to make the crowd get hype...



No he's not. They butchered his juggles, his throws, his kill confirms, his spacing, his damage output, knockback, and everything dude. Today I up threw someone at 130 on smashville when i was around 40 and it didn't kill. I read their air dodge went for it again and then it killed. How the hell is that fine? Diddy was worse than the top 5 pre patch, and he's stupid? Luigi, Pikachu, Sheik?!? Please. Just, please.

I talked to a bunch of top players and we all agree this nerf was targeted at me. Literally.



I'm so freaking mad. WHy the hell is this necessary.
Yo watch your videos all the time dude sorry about your diddy :/. Was wondering would you do a video to cover falco changes in 1.08?
 

Zapp Branniglenn

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Peach Down Throw (this is one you were meant to fight to the death on)
Hah! I don't even remember what @ Thinkaman Thinkaman and I were debating on. Some kind of angular change. Speaking of, wasn't there unconfirmed reports of an angular change on Falcon's Bthrow when 1.06 hit?

I'll keep checking for IASA and transition animation changes on moves. If an attack has a different start up for its hitbox or grabbox, then I'm sure others in this thread will find it now that they have hitbox data to interpret. But mastercore doesn't teach you landing lag and endlag.

Diddy's throw endlag numbers are unchanged. Just want to quell those rumors before they start.
 
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LimitCrown

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So he really hates "low risk moves [that] gradually deal damage to the opponent" and yet Shiek is is seemingly untouched? :p
Sakurai is mainly talking about the 1v1 battle format. Compared to regular 4-player battles, you would naturally be more cautious and use moves with a large amount of ending lag and moves that can last a while less often.
 
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Ultinarok

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I'm pretty sure everyone is blowing this Diddy thing out of proportion. While he probably didn't need any more nerfs, I can see what Sakurai is doing. He's watching everyone play Diddy the "brain dead" way, because of how effective and easy it is, and thinking he's done something wrong in balancing his moves. It shows in his balancing decisions with his play-testers.

People mindlessly spammed Nana -> grab combos and Monkey Flip and then Uair and Fair spammed to victory. When that failed, they threw out the rather rewarding F-Smash. No one ever jabbed, barely any tilts or other smashes were used (minus maybe d-tilt) , DA was obselete, Popgun was unnecessary and saw little use at all since MF and Nana approaches were fine and the other aerials may as well have been filler, minus maybe bair once in a while.

Diddy was unfun to watch, and didn't even look balanced. Half of his arsenal was braindead and the other half was obselete, less useful or plain useless. This is clearly not how Sakurai defines a fun character. Its been pretty clear that when certain moves see no mileage due to flaws and others see too much mileage because they're so good, he rebalances them in a way that he feels puts them on par. MK's jab and f-tilt were weak, so he buffs them. Greninja's Up-Smash was ridiculous but his f-tilt was crap, so he adjusted them. Ike had a terrible DA and laggy aerials outside of fair and bair, so he improved them. Diddy is not exempt from this philosophy.

So what have these patches done? Nerf the biggest offenders (Uair, fair, MF, Nana, F-Smash, U-throw/D-throw) and then buff his most useless attacks (jab and U-smash, which links better). Sakurai clearly wants the characters to be played with all of their tools, and not just a handful of broken ones. He wants every move to be useful and wants everyone to consider all of their options instead of "l0l nana toss, garb, uairuairuairuairfsmash lololo0lol0lol." Its kinda obvious that the mindless uair spam and generally braindead Diddy play was what put the nail in his coffin. I feel like he would've been hit less hard if people would have been a bit more diverse in their use of Diddy. But hoo-hah sealed the deal. We probably have only ourselves to blame for his neutering. And Sakurai to blame for making him so good in the first place so that he could be played this way, and then taking the wind out of his sails after so many became accustomed to him.

That said, he's still fast, has great tools, rather lagless attacks, a versatile projectile game and fluid play. He just gets punished harder now for rushdown, making him like MK; risk and reward for getting in close. Only replace low reach and a light weight with a bit of ending lag. He's still solid everyone. Don't act like he's Brawl Falcon or Dorf.

As for Sheik, her terrible damage output, even worse killing tools and the fact that most of her moves actually see use likely makes Sakurai think he's done enough to her. She's already been nerfed three times. Yeah she's still stupid good, but she's diverse and takes a high understanding to use at top level. Diddy...he kinda didn't. But now he probably will. @ TSM ZeRo TSM ZeRo will still excel with him, and he'll still perform well. It just won't be as easy.
 
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HydeEB

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Sooo narb question. But what exactly does the term "growth" mean here for Link's adjustments?
I understand just about everything else on the list and i'm glad Sonic's 2% claimed bonus got removed. Dope dope.
Apologies in advance mates.

Down Throw

  • Trajectory altered 110°→ 83°, growth 90 → 85
 

A_Kae

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Sooo narb question. But what exactly does the term "growth" mean here for Link's adjustments?
I understand just about everything else on the list and i'm glad Sonic's 2% claimed bonus got removed. Dope dope.
Apologies in advance mates.

Down Throw

  • Trajectory altered 110°→ 83°, growth 90 → 85
Knockback growth is how much the knockback of a move increases with the target's damage.
 

Ravine

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"If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games."

Well umm... what now? :reverse: :(
 
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HydeEB

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Knockback growth is how much the knockback of a move increases with the target's damage.
Ahh I see. So they shortened the move's growth so that Link can follow up with things like Up Smash at a higher %? Gotcha. Much thanks for replying as I truly appreciate it.
 
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