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Lucas matchup discussion. (overhaul in progress)
- Thread starter Levitas
- Start date
- Status
If I'm lucky Overswarm will come to Cincinnati Weeklies on tuesday and if things are going well I can try to get some vids against his ROB. He didn't come last time though so who knows. I would put some of Kel's metaknight against me but at the moment he's still beating me pretty solidly.
Trozz
Smash Ace
Snake players usually like stages with platforms. Using d-smash on platforms with Lucas will hit Snake a lot (since he is so tall). Ropesnake grabs are nice for gimps.
ZMan
Smash Master
I had the chance to play Melee1 at MAST. He's an amazing IC play and I got some stuff against ICs: Nair and PK Fire wreck ICs, alot. Don't get grabbed, they just hurt big time.
AmishTycoon
Smash Cadet
DemonicTrilogy
Smash Lord
Go with the second one while still maintaining good medium spacing. Spamming with PK fire almost always never works.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Question: Why don't we start doing that whole Weekly discussion thing every other board is doing, so that we can really be accurate with the matchups, and really delve into possible strategies for said matchups?
Levitas
the moon
We could. On the other hand, not enough competitive lucas players frequent the lucas boards to make it a very enlightening experience. If someone wants to make a topic for it, feel free.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
Hey Levitas!
gantrain05
Smash Master
very true, falco can easy chaingrab lucas, and if u arent careful end that chaingrab with a death spike. gotta play cautious against falco.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Yeah, the PT board had the same problem.
Which we why we asked the ones who frequent other boards to help.
It worked out fine until the Marth discussion, but it all worked out in the end.
Personally, if no one else starts one, I would be willing to.
If someone does start it atleast make sure it's decent. There's a lot of garbage advice from noobs on how to beat Snake as a level 9 computer or how they beat their idiot friend who plays MK and doesn't have a clue what he's doing.
Oh and I would actually put Lucas at an advantage against Falco. Too easy to edgeguard.
Oh and I would actually put Lucas at an advantage against Falco. Too easy to edgeguard.
Blackbelt
Smash Lord
Every mathup discussion has idiots.
Which is why it is up to us to weed out the bad advice.
You know what, I'm gonna start said topic. First person to suggest a character gets to be the first one we discuss.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
Discuss Captain Falcon, I can't seem to even take like 2 stocks off of my friends 
Earthbound360
Smash Hero
While it is easy to edgeguard Falco, there are other problems that make me hate him. His chaingrab to spike is annoying, and so are his lasers. Sure you can PSIM then, but that wont always save you. He combos like a ***** and has a very powerful ground game.
I can beat decent Falco players, but there's this one that always short hop lasers me about 2 times and the lag from the lasers doesn't let me move and i get attacked
Another thing the falco player does, jab attack and when i get away does reflector. I've managed to get out of this one though, but the other is just to hard to dodge. It's like his primary attack.
Another thing the falco player does, jab attack and when i get away does reflector. I've managed to get out of this one though, but the other is just to hard to dodge. It's like his primary attack.
What does that CF player do? I use nair constantly and SHPKF. I always grab. fsmash is good for some of falcon's approaches. dsmash is also good too.Discuss Captain Falcon, I can't seem to even take like 2 stocks off of my friends
Levitas
the moon
Bowyer can't get two stocks off his friends when he's playing captain falcon.
HiddenBowser
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3,511
lol, I could beat your lucas with him and I so win games with C. Falcon.
Levitas
the moon
...
I somehow doubt that. We'll see the next time we see each other.
I somehow doubt that. We'll see the next time we see each other.
gantrain05
Smash Master
so what about diddy kong? i seem to always have trouble with that little monkey, any good strategies vs him? especially on final d.
Trozz
Smash Ace
Scan through the thread. Diddy was brought up a couple times.
Moral of the matchup: use bananas against him.
Moral of the matchup: use bananas against him.
pianodude700
Smash Journeyman
pikachu
enlighten me
the pika i play has stopped using most thunder jolt & thunder altogether since he knows i absorb
i keep getting ***** by nair, uair juggling out of d-throw
also
who knows how to DI out of his D smash?
it's getting really annoying
thanks
enlighten me
the pika i play has stopped using most thunder jolt & thunder altogether since he knows i absorb
i keep getting ***** by nair, uair juggling out of d-throw
also
who knows how to DI out of his D smash?
it's getting really annoying
thanks
gantrain05
Smash Master
his Dsmash is very easy to DI out of, just press the joystick up and away and u should only be hit by 3 hits of the Dsmash at most if ur good at it. and if he's stopped using thunder and thunder jolt, then he's taken away alot of his game, play defensive and play smart, pika can be annoying but he's certainly not unbeatable.
pianodude700
Smash Journeyman
thanks
also does anyone know the best way to edgeguard?
he usually recovers to the side with a skull bash aimed straight at the ledge, then plays QA mindgames until either he hits me with a fair from the ledge or i have to back off O_O
also does anyone know the best way to edgeguard?
he usually recovers to the side with a skull bash aimed straight at the ledge, then plays QA mindgames until either he hits me with a fair from the ledge or i have to back off O_O
ZSSonDelfino
Smash Cadet
Olimar isn't a horrible match-up for Lucas since they are similar characters in weight, smashes and recovery. You need to stay relatively far from him, since his forward smash is a powerful projectile, and he has the best grab in the game. Your grab is essentially the same length but has much much more down time. He's a character you need to approach from the air diagonally so as to avoid his ridiculously powerful smashes. He can't combo well on the ground so mistakes aren't punishable by damage, but can result in death since Lucas is rather light, Olimar on the other hand, is lighter. Once you see he's near 85% a well placed smash will kill him. Tilts are useless. Forward aerial is slightly longer ranged than his, but your neutral aerial is your best friend. Your dash isn't recommended b/c it's easy to see and Olimar can use his grab to get you. PK freeze is ok though since he has a slow dash speed. It isn't necessary to edge guard him for kills since he's light and you have great smashes (esp forward smash). He's not gonna edge guard you since he can't recover well, Olimars normally stand still. PK fire can be used to kill pikmen though (except reds) but spamming isn't necessary. If he's on platforms get under him and use up tilt since up smash is a little too slow. I'd use up smash if he's approaching you and at 75-80 for a quick kill since it's wide ranged, but you hafta time it right, and be weary or Olimar's amazing grab. Being underneath him is recommended in the air as well since his spike is short ranged and it's not horrible if you get hit by it. Careful about being next to him with your back to him, since back a aerial is a slow spike so I'd stay away from it.
So as a recap....don't grab, make sure you use a lot of aerials, be underneath him, watch out for his forward smash and grab, use PK attacks, and don't edge guard (but edge hogging is recommended)
So as a recap....don't grab, make sure you use a lot of aerials, be underneath him, watch out for his forward smash and grab, use PK attacks, and don't edge guard (but edge hogging is recommended)
wait for pikachu to approach you
wait until he uses thundershock and use twig to relfect back at him, his jabs and dtilt can also stop the thundershocks i think. anyways, that should give you enough time to dthrow to utilt combo or an aerial.
Levitas
the moon
Note on DIing pika's Dsmash, SDI can be done multiple times, so smash the stick in the direction you want to go rapidly multiple times until you're out.
pianodude700
Smash Journeyman
I was finally told this a few days ago (by the pikachu i was playing since he wanted better practice lol)
thank you though
thank you though
Smartidiot
Smash Rookie
Hey guys, I need help with my Lucas against Toon link T.T
Levitas
the moon
what specifically is giving you trouble?
Smartidiot
Smash Rookie
Almost everything :D
Levitas
the moon
I was gonna say that that's a bad way to get specific advice, but I think I know what the problem is. If he beats you in other matchups too, your problem is that he's better than you.
What you need to do is improve aspects of your game up to his level before specifics in the lucas/T.Link matchup can be addressed.
Try watching to see if what you do is predictable in any way. Are you jumping over his boomerangs into an fsmash? Are you rolling behind him consistently? These are questions you should ask yourself to avoid becoming a slave to your patterns.
Try playing as a lot of different characters to improve your game on the whole. Picking up a secondary is often a great way to improve your main.
If it's not that, and it's just T.Link giving you trouble, my bad, but this advice holds for anyone that has issues beating that one friend.
What you need to do is improve aspects of your game up to his level before specifics in the lucas/T.Link matchup can be addressed.
Try watching to see if what you do is predictable in any way. Are you jumping over his boomerangs into an fsmash? Are you rolling behind him consistently? These are questions you should ask yourself to avoid becoming a slave to your patterns.
Try playing as a lot of different characters to improve your game on the whole. Picking up a secondary is often a great way to improve your main.
If it's not that, and it's just T.Link giving you trouble, my bad, but this advice holds for anyone that has issues beating that one friend.
Smartidiot
Smash Rookie
Actually it's basicly only TL giving me the most trouble. Though his DAir gets predictable it very easy to get hit by one in a mind games.
His projectiles annoy me a lot, so i try to reflect them back with my Fsmash
Once going up close though he tends to beat me a lot. Hitting me with a ranged attack even up close then Fsmashing me.
(Also sorry for late respones i get busy..)
His projectiles annoy me a lot, so i try to reflect them back with my Fsmash
Once going up close though he tends to beat me a lot. Hitting me with a ranged attack even up close then Fsmashing me.
(Also sorry for late respones i get busy..)
Levitas
the moon
Try not to approach T. Link. Lucas is at an advantage if the opponent comes to you. Bait him by staying right outside his range, and punish whiffed attacks that were close with nairs/dair, while punishing whiffed (melee) attacks from a range with PK fire.
Be sure to edgeguard well, whether you prefer using PK thunder or aerials is your call.
Be sure to edgeguard well, whether you prefer using PK thunder or aerials is your call.
Smartidiot
Smash Rookie
For him, he will never approach my no matter what.
His arrows I can dodge usually easy but if he stays in the middle of the stage and still had the range against me with both Boomerangs + arrows which get's annoying.
His arrows I can dodge usually easy but if he stays in the middle of the stage and still had the range against me with both Boomerangs + arrows which get's annoying.
GofG
Smash Champion
Uhh.. due to changes in snake's gameplay, my bit on snake is obsolete. PK fire spamming is possible as his game is based much more on close range ftilts and utilts, and he rarely has both mines out on the stage at the same time. Stay out of range of his utilt and hit him with jabs/ftilts (both clank with his utilt and you can get something out faster than he can afterward.)
Levitas
the moon
I'll go ahead and replace that with the new info.
Sorry about lack of grooming on this thread...
Sorry about lack of grooming on this thread...
ZMan
Smash Master
Here's something fun to try against Wolf: If he stages scars, go near the ledge and do a u or dsmash, it'll knock him out of his side b and it will discourage him from using it again.
Levitas
the moon
I really want to try that now
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