Lucas in teams: "Wa-Wa-Wobbuffet!" Wario! ~Peach will be up when I'm not lazy~

[~Nasty~]

~ AS can not be healed while charging, that would be incredibly broken, lol...

~ Lucas/Lucario is a 10 out of 10 IMO... HOWEVER, not when it comes to facing a double mk team. It is extremely hard to heal when 2 mk's are on the field bc of nado.

~ The downside to this team is that neither character can be very supportive of the other when one is being double teamed from far away. (PKT doesn't really help)

~ If lucario uses his recovery and doesn't make it to the ledge, lucas can hit lucario using PKT and lucario then gets a second upB. (This works! I have saved my partner MANY times doing this).

~ This team's main goal is to keep lucas at 0%. Whenever opponents are hit off the stage, lucas and lucario should be HEALING! DO NOT WORRY ABOUT GIMPING THE OPPONENTS OFF STAGE! YOU NEED TO BE HEALING CONSTANTLY! Lucario should NOT be charging AS up the whole way before healing lucas! It actually takes longer and you won't end up healing that much. Instead, lucario should be mashing that B button, shooting little AS balls to heal lucas. You can heal from a little over 100% down to 0% in less than 4 seconds doing it this way!!

~ The best strategy to be able to make this team work is to fight so that you and lucario are towards the center of the stage, keeping the opponents to the outside. NEVER let both opponents between you and lucario bc it is almost impossible to heal then (one opponent is easier to move out of the way rather than two). This is what your formation should look like:

Opponent | Lucas | Lucario | Opponent

-OR-

Opponent | Lucas | Opponent | Lucario

-AND SOMETIMES-

Lucas | Lucario | Opponent | Opponent

- BUT NEVER-

Lucas | Opponent | Opponent | Lucario

~ If you are fighting in the third formation, and lucas is just standing still, he should always have his magnet up so that lucario can fend off the opponents, turn around (using sideB to heal some) and then continue to use AS to heal lucas some more.

~ Also the best kill set-up for this team from a grab would be lucario's grab > Fthrow right into Lucas's Usmash.

Here are vids of me and Fury (keep in mind these are a little old but some were from our prime as a team):

Nasty and Fury vs. Smurf and HiME
Game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40fb8Bz0od8

Game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdEH2gchez8

Game 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oovbzIJCffk

Nasty and Fury vs. Chibo and AndyG
Game 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31SpJEsCSxY

Game 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o5HSSFTNe0

Game 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohY_T09Avj8

I'll see if i can get fury in here to mention anything i missed.

Overall: 10/10
Against Double MK: 7/10 or MAYBE 8/10

 

[FuRyOf1000SuNs]

^^^ that was very well written! As a former Lucario main, our team really worked well.. Just a few things I have to add: Lucas should ALWAYS have his magnet up if he's behind lucario while the other two opponents are in front of Lucario. The reason for this is that a lot of the time I will be fending off both opponents and would really quickly turn around and shoot an aura sphere and Lucas should never miss these! If lucario is getting double team *****, lucas always has to enter into the fray with a nair to help the situation, NEVER slide in with an upsmash to hit everyone! Lucario has to stay alive, bc in worst case scenario, Lucas might have to take a stock and even one of Lucas' stocks with Lucario on the board is potentially three stocks in itself if you play it right, especially if Lucario is at high percentages. If you have a charged aura sphere as Lucario, never throw it short range at Lucas, only throw it at Lucas if he's across the stage.. This team only works because of healing! Send Lucas out as a pawn and keep Lucario as a opportune hitter bc even if Lucas gets *****, he will have done damage and all you have to do is throw them away and run to heal.. Upsmash immediately (if you're not in danger) when lucario grabs someone bc upsmash lags crazy and lucario will throw him into the lag and kill him that way. Nasty used to wait for the perfect timing to upsmash when I held someone but there are so many factors bc I could be either superstrong and throw them so fast that they missed the upsmash or they could have really high percentage, it's just better that the lucario waits until he sees the upsmash animation.. Always keep your magnet up!!!!

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Hmm... whenever I thought of this combo, I always thought as Lucario just going super aggresive, because when he takes damage (/stocks) he gets even stronger. If he gets to his last stock, he'll just take one of Lucas' stocks (b/c he can hold onto them so well) and continue to be very powerful.
But I've never used this team, so I'd like to see what Fury says.

 

[FuRyOf1000SuNs]

We thought about that at first and it's really not such a good idea.. Lucario should really only be healing, killing, and tanking. The reason is bc you want Lucas too have as many stocks as possible. Lucas can deal a lot of damage really quickly and when opponents have a lot of damage, it's easier to get them away from you so you can go heal. Only when Lucas is at really high percentages like 100+ should he slow down and run away, lucario steps in to toss them away or kill them and heal Lucas back to 0% in 4 seconds!! This is how you want to play this team

 

[~Nasty~]

Thanks Fury! I completely forgot to mention that lucas should be running away when he is at high percents, and play patiently and cautiously to look for the opportune time to heal back to 0%. Thanks for your input fury.

 

[#HBC | J]

great summaries Nasty and Fury! ^_^

Also my lil brother is a Lucario main so I asked him to try this with me and even with his little experience as a Lucario main the team just clicked so well O_O

I loved watching the vids. they were so good and I am adding them to our video collection. Thanks for the addition.

 

[Steam]

just theorycraft here but couldnt this team get CP'd to really silly stages and get wrecked? RC and brinstar both sound terrible.

 

[HailCrest]

keep in mind that the max absorbable damage per hit is 30%. you can charge your auraspheres to max at 999%, and it'll still heal 30%. it's seldom ever a good strategy to full charge aura sphere. force palm is a decent healer but it's pretty slow and when you're too close range, lucario will do his force palm throw.

keep in mind lucario's aura is also affected by his teammate. if lucas has 3 stocks while lucario has 1, his aurao will get a seizure, and a non-charged sweetspot fsmash kills at 50%.

whether you're going to let lucario get 2v1'd or whether you're going to let lucario give lucas constant healing support, the key role of lucas in this team is to stay alive. this means learn your recovery techniques, stay out of conflict as much as you can and use your projectiles. this also means that lucario has to babysit lucas really really well. watch out for kill setups, always keep a charged AS ready as a quick gtfo, and stay onstage as much as possible.

at the same time however, lucario is under a lot of pressure. while lucas must stocktank and lucario has to babysit lucas, the team needs to get some work done. it's a delicate balance of keeping away enough to be able to move fast enough to lucas if he gets into trouble, and abusing aura powers to get some serious damage and kills on.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

just theorycraft here but couldnt this team get CP'd to really silly stages and get wrecked? RC and brinstar both sound terrible.

Brinstar is a good Lucas stage, and a meh Lucario stage.

Rainbow cruise is silly bad.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

lol, the stage is counterpicked before the character, you can change characters to Gdubs or MK if they take you there.

 

[~Nasty~]

lol, the stage is counterpicked before the character, you can change characters to Gdubs or MK if they take you there.

^ this

Also, RC really isn't that bad at all. We've been CP'd there before and have done very well. The opponents are too focused on moving w/ the stage that if lucario and lucas just stay behind for a few seconds they can heal a great deal.

Small stages are what's bad for this team. We didn't like YI bc it was too small and when there's a cluster of ppl it's harder to heal. Also, it's a bad lucas stage, so that's the other reason we didn't like it. You want bigger stages. Halberd is actually a nice CP, along with Delfino, PS1, and JJ.

 

[#HBC | J]

Me and my lucario main we cped stages like Delfino and Final Destiation and they seemed to work nicely.

wow we are already on the last two steps of this discussion. ^_^

So are there any advance techniques these two could accomplish together and is the team viable for tournaments? (dumb question)

 

[Steam]

err, keep in mind aura stops getting a boost at 170%. and at 2 stock disadvantage (at least in singles). and each stock is worth roughly 39% of damage aparently .

 

[#HBC | J]

Summary will be up by the weekend.

time for a vote while I write this. Which do you guys feel like doing next? Pika or ZSS?

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm voting Pika

 

[Chuee]

Pikachuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

 

[#HBC | J]

so since no one's really posting in here again I'll go grab the Pika's while I write the Summary.

This team is pretty ****. I would say another 10/10 partner or 9/10. Pikachu heals us so much WHILE attacking at the same time so it doesn't stop the flow of battle so much. Pikachu can rack up damage quite nicely plus since Pikachu is speedy he can help get people off Lucas if he is being ganged on. However Pikachu has a hard time killing so we have to help out in the section, but Pika does have his options like Usmash, Nair, uhm i don't know my Pikachu too much even though my two better friends main him ;_;

A cool thing me and my friend did was of course grabbing the opponent in 2v1 situation and it works either way. Lucas grab AR -> DownB or Usmash, Pikachu Grab -> many options to how to kill...Fsmash, Usmash, Dsmash(though i don't recommend this one)

Pikachu has a great recovery and we have a pretty decent recovery so we can stay alive longer. Plus with some of the data me and Yink collected Pikachu heals up to 26% with Thunder but it doesn't matter if it hits Pika or not because you get the same amount of health. A surprising thing is Thunderjolt. With this if you catch the ball in air it can heal about 23% of health o_O but if you do a normal Thunderjolt on the ground or it hits the ground it is basically cut in half at 13%.

I guess this is all I can really input atm so yay let it start ^_^

 

[Jon Farron]

To me ZSS and Ness seam good team-mates. ZSS can keep Lucas at safe percents with her paralizer along with ness, and they both cover the air games pretty well. But ZSS has mojor recovery issues o_o she is easily edgegaurded so lucas would have to keep her safe with PKT or maybe pk freezing her upward so she can down air back to the stage :D (i've saved a few team-mates this way) Ness and Lucas can both stay at safe percents if they cooperate with healing. Lucas would probably be getting most of this kills since his side smash is faster and his up&down smashes are good. ness' yoyos aren't very reliable ness also has recovery issues as his PKT can be easily destroyed by either him hitting someone with it or someone getting in the way of him coming up, and again PKT and Pk freeze can save here. Ness has some good camping moves that can get people in a bad situation (pk fire) and ZSS has good spacing
ZSS has some killing problems on the ground but with her paralizer she can get some good setups for lucas' smashes or psi magnet while shes zapping the opponent and healing him at the same time and when he releases the opponet is blown away leaving Lucas with free health :D
To me these seem the best team mates.

 

[#HBC | J]

Thank you for your input on ZSS/Ness ^_^

I'll be sure to bring the post back up when we are discussing the two. I think both of them are pretty good as well. :3

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Will edit this post later.

 

[iDeo]

Lucario and the Lucas team looks pretty decent. We can heal Lucas and hold our own (against particular characters of course). The good thing is both can rack up the damage and thanx to Lucas' kill power, seeing as Lucario can't kill at low percents), Lucas picks up the slack right there to begin with. Lucario get enough damage so he can kill as well, we're good to go even more with this team.

The main thing that need to happen is for both Lucas and Lucario to maintain the center of the stage. Both Lucario and Lucas' recovery aren't too great because they can get gimped pretty easily so it's essentail to let each other know when the other need help when off the stage.

Not the best team, but if both players are playing smart this team can surely be one not to take lightly In honesty I wanna try this team out unfortunately there aren't any Lucas players in my area.

Sorry for late response Jbandit. Just looked over in the Lucario boards and saw u wanted some input for doubles for these 2 characters.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Inb4ChueeSaysLucasHasAGoodRecovery

 

[Chuee]

Lucas does have a good recovery <.<
Theres still some characters that can do a good amount of damage to him offstage, but theres not many characters that can actually gimp him.

 

[Jon Farron]

Hmm not such a busy thread like I thought it would be

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Pikachu Main here.

My brother plays lucas very well and the team epically owns. I feel that a good setup is pikachu in teh air juggling the opponent and lucas picking each opponent off while they land with KO moves and crazy damage

Pikachu can juggle oppoenents all day and Crazy stuff like lucas u-smash and d-smash on a landing opponent(with pikachu) is perfectly safe because if you time it right, the opponents will get owned by airdodge to ground or something and pikachu can quick attack cancel away into safety before landing in the danger spot.

There are thunder glitches that can happen (look up 'aftershock' in our AT's thread) where multiple hits of thunder happen when it lands on the ground. If in the freak chance that you absorb that, I think that heals 55%+ and it also gives G&W an instant level 3 (full) bucket.

If opponents are largely aerial, then pikachu can sort of spam thunder walls and lucas can safely pick off the opponents or protect pikachu. Like below:

Spoiler

____._________________||________________________________.______________
_____________________||_________Aerial Opponent 1_________Aerial Opponent 2
_______PkT```*________||______________________________________________
______________________||__________________.______...____________________
Lucas_________|Pikachu Thunder Wall|_____________________________

\___________________________________________________________/

That's a little bit. Overall, the tips and tricks you can do don't stop. Both have anti-tornado and safe things to do against snakes grenades. Pikachu can't be chaingrabbed by anyone except himself, falco, and IC's.

Play around with it ^_^.

 

[#HBC | J]

wow thanks for the legit diagram o_o that looks like it would've taken a bit of time.

Also i did not know about the Pikachu glitch and that would be a very lucky break.

Thank you ^_^

@ideo: Thank you for your input as well on Lucario =P *lucas has a good recovery

 

[iKiLLOTz]

For the whole healing thing
Wouldnt Fox or Falco be like A Tier

 

[Chuee]

^ No, because others can heal faster than them.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Fox heals ridiculously fast, not falco tho.

 

[#HBC | J]

Fox>Falco in teams for Lucas. And the blaster for Fox does 4-5% per laser fired. Imagine how fast that is.

ANYWAYS we are on Pikachu. so yea where is some more input ;_;

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

This is for Jbanit, though it's actually just a reply to his VM

apparently it was too long.

said it could only be 1000 characters, and mine was 1233 ;_;

I have to be aggro. Pika too light lol.

Beside that, It's best for pika to be the supporter with Tjolts and grabs that can set up into his CGs, and potential combos. He's really fast, so he can moe across the stage really well and punish. Pika should be constantly supporting with tjolts or ready to get a grab usmash, or whatever.

also, when Pika get's a dsmash, and they SDI out, when they hit the ground it's a tech chase if I'm around, and it severly limits options, because they only have so many places to go with two people on each side of them.

Pika can't get hit alot. it's just not cool lol. The only time I should be extremely defensive is when I get around 70ish, because There's room to heal, and I don't want to hit that 100 mark, because It'll make me, but mostly my partner, focus too much on healing me. Oh, and on stages like green greens, and PS1. it's still the same drill until the stage transforms, then it's camp central for every transformation, but the grass transformation.

you just gotta get used to healing teams. They're alot of work, and the strategy behind them aren't really the conventional strategies used, but when you get them down, then they're devastating. (i.e. Nick riddle + Shaky)

 

[#HBC | J]

thank you so much Pink <3 and wow VMs are weird lol

Wow okay so play Aggro with Lucas during this team. Hmph nice.

I have one more person who said they would post to help us out but they are a bit busy with PRs to post atm so now it's just a waiting game for more input.

 

[Mekos]

Marth is an okay teamate for Lucas. He can handle lucas's bad matchups!
Here is an old vid from 08 when the game first came out. My and my old teamate bardull playing online in dubs.

They have good comboes that they can pull of which is cool. Imagine we had this teamwork while playing online with no communication.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G****b3mtcg

 

[#HBC | J]

hmmm the link doesn't work. Marth/Lucas seems like it could be a good team however Lucas only truly excels with partners that can heal him.

Btw I heard Pikachu was supposed to infect this thread more. where is the pokerus?

 

[Mekos]

lol thats true

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G****b3mtcg

or type in "SSBB Super Saiyans(Mekos + BarDulL vs ? season 2 ".

 

[Kitamerby]

it's seldom ever a good strategy to full charge aura sphere.

What the hell? Are you serious? Please tell me this was a typo or that you are seriously not talking about Lucario.

Lucario should always have a Fully Charged Aura Sphere. There is absolutely no excuse for not having one on hand at all times.

 

[#HBC | J]

Actually to make a small point. Yes Lucario should have a full aura sphere when Lucas does not need healing. However when he gets near the 50%s you should try not to.

Although a full aura sphere heals a bit more it is faster and more effective to throw the smallest aura sphere to heal. I get what HailCrest is saying by the point of healing but I see where you say about better for battle.

All in all it depends on the scenario. For healing, small aura spheres, for normal battle, bigger aura sphere.

 

[~Nasty~]

Actually to make a small point. Yes Lucario should have a full aura sphere when Lucas does not need healing. However when he gets near the 50%s you should try not to.

Although a full aura sphere heals a bit more it is faster and more effective to throw the smallest aura sphere to heal. I get what HailCrest is saying by the point of healing but I see where you say about better for battle.

All in all it depends on the scenario. For healing, small aura spheres, for normal battle, bigger aura sphere.

qft

10chars

 

[HailCrest]

What the hell? Are you serious? Please tell me this was a typo or that you are seriously not talking about Lucario.

Lucario should always have a Fully Charged Aura Sphere. There is absolutely no excuse for not having one on hand at all times.

you obviously didn't read the sentence before that. he should always have his big balls ready to fling at the opponent, but when lucas is next to an emptyhanded lucario, lucario should just spam babies.

 

[Jon Farron]

I woder why a full charged aura sphere doesnt do that much healing :/