Lucas General Discussion

[zen-bz-]

I must be doing DACUS super late then.
I'll test this out though. Thanks!

 

[D e l t a]

SH / DJC PKF has like 12-15 frames of end lag (sorry I don't know exacts offhand). At higher %'s if the opponent doesn't shield or CC the projectile, they get popped up and you can sneak in a DACUS if you're spaced correctly.

Against floaties, they get popped up pretty high which makes Lucas less susceptible to being counter attacked, even Luigi's Nair/Dair won't always be able to connect. Note that against Marth, they can Fair or counter out of PKF.

Against heavies / fast fallers, this doesn't always work due to their higher fall speed & weight. Spacies and Bowser in particular I find it much more difficult to land a DACUS on from PKF, and I'll stick to easier followups like PKF -> aerial attack / magnet / grab.

 

[D e l t a]

If you have trouble with move timings / IASA frames, input the move and hold shield just after you execute the attack. Your shield will pop up the first actionable frame after the end lag. This works for throws as well. It's how I learned the perfect timings for comboing out of Dthrow

 

[zen-bz-]

Just tested some stuff.
Here's what I found out:
1: I'm horrible at DACUS with tap jump on...
2: OU DACUS is super satisfying to land.
3: IASA timing suggestion worked. I managed to successfully land one PKF -> DACUS against a CPU (ayy)
4: PKF has quite an amount of endlag T_T

So yeah

 

[zen-bz-]

What are the most optimal followups out of magnet > WD backward? I tend to do nair but I think I could be doing something better (dair or fair for instance), but I'm relatively unsure which move leads to the best combos. I also know it's weight/DI dependent but assuming that it's proper DI and about Roy fallspeed which combo would be the best? Is it also possible that there are different "optimal" combos for different weights (like u-air after magnet > WD back for floaties)? If so what do those typically lead to assuming near-optimal DI?

Bit of a big question but I recognize how useful magnet is and I wanna know how I can improve my magnet game.

 

[D e l t a]

Next week I'm going to finally make a Lucas video compiling all of his general options, as everything basically links into anything you want. I'll cover things like PKF -> DACUS and the frame data on DACUS, sourspot Fair -> DACUS, forcing missed techs, etc

I'm glad my tip worked for you

 

[prem]

honestly after you magnet someone with Roy's fall speed and if they didn't cc it you actually can do anything. I don't know what the most optimal is because I kind of try to mix it up to mess with their di. I basically never play roy but i think hes a semi fast faller like tink (if I'm wrong sorry) so I'll just go over all the options i kind of do against tink and apply them.

-sh nair into regrab works almost all the time.
- sh and do a late nair to only get some of the hits and drag them down. This is kind of like wolf's nair in this case and you can follow up with a dair most of the time, and depending on how many hits you get with nair and your spacing it is possible to magnet, but i wouldn't recommend it on roy.
- sh uair. you don't really need to djc it and depending on the height they pop up it might be better not to. from uair you just kind of follow them like usual.
- fair is possible if you delay it if they don't have a move fast enough. I would usually go for the flub hitbox there because it pops them no where for you basically get a free magnet or uair again.
- You can see if you can sh mag aerial them, should be easy to tell based on how high they are.

These are just some things I do. I don't think any is particularly optimal but uair requires di behind him, fair and nair require di in front of him so its just some di mixups that lets you extend your combos more

 

[zen-bz-]

Next week I'm going to finally make a Lucas video compiling all of his general options, as everything basically links into anything you want. I'll cover things like PKF -> DACUS and the frame data on DACUS, sourspot Fair -> DACUS, forcing missed techs, etc

I'm glad my tip worked for you

Will look forward to it.

 

[zen-bz-]

honestly after you magnet someone with Roy's fall speed and if they didn't cc it you actually can do anything. I don't know what the most optimal is because I kind of try to mix it up to mess with their di. I basically never play roy but i think hes a semi fast faller like tink (if I'm wrong sorry) so I'll just go over all the options i kind of do against tink and apply them.

-sh nair into regrab works almost all the time.

Hm. I never thought about regrab. I'll try this out.

- sh and do a late nair to only get some of the hits and drag them down. This is kind of like wolf's nair in this case and you can follow up with a dair most of the time, and depending on how many hits you get with nair and your spacing it is possible to magnet, but i wouldn't recommend it on roy.

Hm. I sometimes do this but I don't think I follow it up optimally. I just grab after the nair instead of dair, but dair at lower %s could lead to another magnet. I'll think about this more.

- sh uair. you don't really need to djc it and depending on the height they pop up it might be better not to. from uair you just kind of follow them like usual.

Yep, already do this.

- fair is possible if you delay it if they don't have a move fast enough. I would usually go for the flub hitbox there because it pops them no where for you basically get a free magnet or uair again.

I'll experiment with fair more.

- You can see if you can sh mag aerial them, should be easy to tell based on how high they are.

I never do magnet into magnet for some reason lol. I need to try this out more.

Thanks again!

 

[D e l t a]

Also if you haven't already, check out my videos I've uploaded. Some might be on here but check out my channel on YouTube: Jason2x4

I've uploaded a few hours of friendlies with my crew mates and they should give you an idea of comboing and application in-game. I have games vs Yoshi, Mewtwo, Diddy, Sheik, and Roy.
(Ignore the part where I suck and get bodied most games)

 

[zen-bz-]

I just played a Bo5 set against one of my friends. I did horrible compared to normal, so that's why I intend to share it lol.
It's currently rendering and whatnot. I should have it up soon (an hour ish). Any criticisms are appreciated.

And before you say it, YES I forget to JC a lot of grabs...I tried a lot but I kept inputting jump early. I did do a successful JC pivot grab though, but it whiffed :/

So yeah, vid soon.

 

[zen-bz-]

Also upon going to your channel I watched Railz (Yoshi) vs you. Immediately recognized the nightcore Angel of Darnkess lol
Rendering is S O S L O W

 

[zen-bz-]

And after taking longer than expected...
'tis done.
https://youtu.be/sUW-5ki45d0

 

[D e l t a]

Also upon going to your channel I watched Railz (Yoshi) vs you. Immediately recognized the nightcore Angel of Darnkess lol
Rendering is S O S L O W

I've got some godlike music packs <3

 

[D e l t a]

Btw, is anyone going to this? I would love to meet up with some fellow Lucas homies. It'll be the last big tourney I'm at until April comes around.

http://smashboards.com/threads/dec-19-2015-i-saw-mommy-smashing-santa-claus-columbus-oh.422620/

 

[zen-bz-]

Btw, is anyone going to this? I would love to meet up with some fellow Lucas homies. It'll be the last big tourney I'm at until April comes around.

http://smashboards.com/threads/dec-19-2015-i-saw-mommy-smashing-santa-claus-columbus-oh.422620/

I might, but I'd have to travel out of state. Is it wurf?

 

[Kipcom]

Btw, is anyone going to this? I would love to meet up with some fellow Lucas homies. It'll be the last big tourney I'm at until April comes around.

http://smashboards.com/threads/dec-19-2015-i-saw-mommy-smashing-santa-claus-columbus-oh.422620/

dat title tho

 

[zen-bz-]

dat title tho

Saw your performance at TO11. Nice job :D

 

[Kipcom]

<3

(10 character limit sucks)

 

[zen-bz-]

Question about this video.

Many times Joey's able to act super fast out of an aerial magnet after hitting someone. How? Jump canceling?

 

[D e l t a]

All events are gonna be there- Melee/PM/Sm4sh: singles & doubles, plus I'll be there Ohio tourneys are usually really good, such as Shuffle. The people there are homies too. It's only about 4 hours from me so it's definitely worth given the projected attendance

 

[prem]

Question about this video.

Many times Joey's able to act super fast out of an aerial magnet after hitting someone. How? Jump canceling?

yeah what i do is tap jump after the hitstun into stick. the only super hard aerial like this is instant nair (which you can make easier by setting c stick to attack and going diagonally). but mag dair to nair works really well also if you get the second hit only so i just go for that

 

[zen-bz-]

Looking over my Bo5 Netplay set I noticed a few things about my play:
1. I failed on many instances to respect Ike's range. I came in too close and he managed to get a clean hit on me so many times. Random f-smashes even killed me many times due to lack of respect. When recovering, I also developed a habit of airdodging to avoid fsmash edgeguards. This could be solved by:
a. better sweetspotting
b. counterattacking
c. recovering high
instead of just airdodging. He didn't really pick up on this but against any competent opponent they would've charged fsmash baiting out the airdodge or just used dsmash, uptilt, etc.

2. On the topic of aerials: I use dair too often. While a good move, I often just did it in place or STRAIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM, which really conveyed lack of control. This gave him free opportunities to hit me and he did capitalize on it on many occasions.
I also failed to DJC fair a lot when DJC fair has many advantages over SH fair. Uair isn't as big of an issue to not DJC but I feel like using DJC u-air could've been really useful in some scenarios.

3. I dropped magnet combos, or failed to do them when I had the chance. Mostly a technical error/lack of knowing when to magnet, but I feel like maximizing this would help a lot with kill confirming or at least getting a lot of % on the opponent. Knowing magnet/aerial magnet IASA frames as well as varying % combos on various weights in more info to digest and keep in mind when I combo people.

4. I can't JC grab for ****. I've learned how to do this more consistently since the video, but really how I failed was an input habit error that I need to correct. It'll take a bit but I'll figure it out.

Despite the fact that I won all 3 of the games, they were very close due to many of my errors.
Any other advice of what I messed up is appreciated, but I just wanted to analyze myself what I did wrong and how.

EDIT: I'm probably gonna share this in the Skype group when I get home from school and get their input as well.

 

[Kipcom]

If you have trouble with move timings / IASA frames, input the move and hold shield just after you execute the attack. Your shield will pop up the first actionable frame after the end lag. This works for throws as well. It's how I learned the perfect timings for comboing out of Dthrow

So I tried this to see if it worked and I don't think it does, unless I'm doing something wrong.

For example, I performed Roy's down tilt and shield didn't pop up until the animation was completely done. However, I was able to perform another down tilt very shortly after the first dtilt, even if the animation itself didn't finish.


I think buffering shield after a move only takes into account the actual endlag of the move and not the IASA, but I'm going to try this out some more.

 

[Sartron]

So I tried this to see if it worked and I don't think it does, unless I'm doing something wrong.

For example, I performed Roy's down tilt and shield didn't pop up until the animation was completely done. However, I was able to perform another down tilt very shortly after the first dtilt, even if the animation itself didn't finish.


I think buffering shield after a move only takes into account the actual endlag of the move and not the IASA, but I'm going to try this out some more.

Roy's down tilt cannot be interrupted by shield, it's actually coded that way.

 

[Kipcom]

Of all the moves to test it out with and I get the one that can't be interrupted by shield LOL

Thanks for the clarification tho

 

[D e l t a]

Lmfao good job Kip.

I like the shield IASA method after learning all about IASA one day. Between debug mode and shields, it's how I've been able to consistently perform Lucas tech like Dtilt -> immediate grab (upon recognizing the opponent wasn't knocked down), finding the end lag of aerials so I can do frame tight combos / shield pressure, or Dthrow followups on any character.

 

[zen-bz-]

Nearly every video of a good Lucas I see in 3.6, the Lucas is either using the white/blue skin or the Masked Man skin, lol

 

[D e l t a]

Standard Lucas is the pink fresh color
Red is Plasma and Neon
Masked man is Kip & Hyper
Purple is Oracle (lolOracle)
Blue is the other 90%

 

[AntSSB]

Red lucas is best lucas

 

[Volume AF]

Red Lucas is love, Red Lucas is life, my friends.

Hey guys I'm new here so I hope to be friends with you Lucas enthusiasts!

Is it weird I use tap jump off and use X for special? It's the only way I've been able to do DJC PKF lol.

 

[Scraket]

Standard Lucas is the pink fresh color
Red is Plasma and Neon
Masked man is Kip & Hyper
Purple is Oracle (lolOracle)
Blue is the other 90%

but neon used blue and pf used the masked man lol
also Volume AF tap jump off is a bit uncommon among Lucas players. Lucas really benefits from tap jump for his djc aerials.

 

[zen-bz-]

Red Lucas is love, Red Lucas is life, my friends.

Hey guys I'm new here so I hope to be friends with you Lucas enthusiasts!

Is it weird I use tap jump off and use X for special? It's the only way I've been able to do DJC PKF lol.

Welcome to the Lucas boards! :D

Preference is preference. If you feel like you can DJC PKF and other aerials with that setup easily, there's no point in trying to change that, as it's your preference. I personally prefer tap jump on because it makes DJC aerials a lot faster, and I just use Y -> Y -> side b for DJC PKF. Again, it's all preference, though I feel like to do DJC aerials more consistently tap jump should be on. It may take some getting used to but I guarantee it's worth it. But if your setup works for you and it works well I'm not stopping you

 

[Kipcom]

If they ever release the black shirt/darker pants Masked Man alt costume, I'm moving over to that.

Basically this without the gun and helmet. Though a third alt that has the helmet would be really cool too.

 

[D e l t a]

but neon used blue and pf used the masked man lol
also Volume AF tap jump off is a bit uncommon among Lucas players. Lucas really benefits from tap jump for his djc aerials.

I know PF switched between normal & masked man. I honestly went off blatant memory since I hadn't watched him in months. Also, Neon uses the red skin when he plays now. I haven't seen him use blue since 3.0

Volume AF Tap Jump for quick, close to frame perfect execution aerials is really nice. The 4 frame jump buffer is also useful. As for DJC PKF, I'm pretty sure that almost every Lucas player doesn't use tap jump for DJC PKF, we simply double tap the jump button (either X, Y, Z or even L/R depending on controls)

 

[zen-bz-]

Thinking of going to Shots Fired 2 in March. That is, if my folks let me

But anyway, I learned just two days ago how useful aerial magnets are. Holy crap. I grinded stuff for aerial magnet for like an hour yesterday and my combo game is a ton more versatile now that I can use them, albeit not too well.

 

[D e l t a]

aerial magnets are great. Lucas has so much amazing tech to grind <3

 

[zen-bz-]

Not even just hitting with the mag, using it to reposition yourself too for bairs and fairs and whatnot...so much stuff to learn about this character.
I'm probably gonna have the most broken hands in 10 years...LOL

 

[D e l t a]

oh nice! I still need to brush up my aerial mag turnarounds until they're perfect haha. Honestly, Melee Fox is still worse on hands than Lucas IMO

 

[zen-bz-]

Yeah Melee Fox is still pretty bad, I just don't put as much time into him as I do into PM Lucas.