Lucas General Discussion

[Master WGS]

I usually come back on with fair, but I'll give pkf a shot. Never really considered it.

 

[Burnsy]

I usually come back on with fair, but I'll give pkf a shot. Never really considered it.

I like this a lot, but I find it's a bit hard to rely on in quite a few of his match ups.

ice over the side would be cool, ill try it too.

 

[DahNade]

I really like to tech chase with his down B, but that is all that i really use it for... is there anymore places i could use his down B for?

 

[Oracle]

combos, shield pressure, landing up smashes. I really don't think its all that good but it has uses

 

[Ishiey]

Screw these things I said before, I've found something better:

1. Grab the ledge with snake (lets assume you have to grab it from really far away).
2. Immediately tap down to tether drop
3. Fall the appropriate height to airdodge up to barely come within the ledge's sweetspot range
4. Grab ledge with snake again
5. Immediately tap down again and then hold right

As long as you are within sweetspot range, he go from hanging to immediately snapping to the ledge. And his precious little noggin never even has to poke over it.

If I'm interpreting this correctly (which looking at your later post, I think I am), that's awesome. I'll try it out later today and get back to you.

You should make a hitbox thread btw :D

Anyway, I won't be going to APEX. Too far for an invitational, even if I'd get a ton of friendlies in. Gonna try to make it to SCSYN, though.

I was thinking of going to SCSYN, buuut I probably shouldn't miss school for smash

Edit: One last other thing. Is it intended that landing OU Dsmash no longer keeps the charge? Or am I missing something, and it does keep the charge but I've only been hitting with one of the parts that doesn't let you keep it, or maybe it doesn't keep it if you hit with the first one and then miss with the 2nd? Basically somebody plz tell me the mechanics on that haha.

Probably not... I'll mention it in the PMBR.

 

[Burnsy]

No U, I'm assuming this is due to the way OU is coded to be kept upon a successful hit. Every time I've seen this happen was because I was too slow with the second hit and it never hit them, so I lost OU.

You could always learn to do it faster on reaction so the 2nd hit is guarenteed, and for me the first hit was usually enough to take care of them anyways, so i could just recharge after they died/went far offstage if I wanted OU back.

 

[Oracle]

I was thinking of going to SCSYN, buuut I probably shouldn't miss school for smash

I'm missing a week of school to travel halfway across the country for that tournament don't even worry about it

 

[Citizen Snips]

wtf is a mother 3


on a serious note: does anyone think that lucas is capable of shield pressure using multi shines

It's not as fast as Fox's or Falco's shines. I honestly think spaced magnet -> DJC uair is much more useful.


And does down-b Usmash work? O.o

 

[Master WGS]

Down B, Wavedash, Upsmash has worked for me I feel. Might be wrong, but I think I've done that.

 

[Sartron]

And does down-b Usmash work? O.o

Psi Magnet can be jump canceled so we can do jc usmashes or just wd out of it into an usmash.

 

[TemPesT-]

down b to upsmash definitely works, but not on like the whole cast.

its cc'able too so that kinda ruins some of the heavier characters chances of being hit into upsmash.

i was playing tonight and had some pretty sick 0-deaths, no recordings tho :/

also the spaceys in general still out class pretty much everyone i feel :/

 

[a vehicle]

It's scary how much i'm getting used to Lucas's DACUS up to the point I can rely on it for combos (I would say mastering it reminded me of the old "waveshine" days)

I haven't seen this mentioned but:
Has anyone noticed that lucas can dropzone into Dair and safely jump back into stage using Fair?
Also that if you have to go far off the edge to chase and by the time you come back you're facing the opposite way you can always do this:

bounce shine (psi magnet) to face the other way -> air dodge -> tether -> edge -> instant Fair into stage

I'm almost never using up-b to recover now, doing as said above is so quick is almost imposible to edge guard, plus you get so much invisibility frames it's absurd.

DThrow -> Bair (pretty solid follow-up, very reliable too, to knock people off-stage)
SHFFL Nair -> waveshine -> u-smash / Bair (doesn't work on for all chars, but very strong combo when it does)
Dair -> u-smash (stupid)
B-Throw -> DACUS (low percentages)
DTilt -> f-smash (high percentages)

I have still left to do ken combos, they're a lot harder since Lucas's Dair is a meteor and not a spike and it launches the opponent straight down, not with an angle like marth.

 

[SpiderMad]

Does anyone know where Naerok went? Reflex? Anyone?

 

[JUGGERNAUT043]

i feel like lucas is a very stat-padded character, like he just has multiple perks of a wide range of other characters

 

[foshio]

Yeah Naerok was amazing! Where did that guy go?

 

[No U]

When I mentioned the side-b onto stage thing I didn't mean actually making the pkf come out, I mean like using the momentum from the djc to quickly land on the stage in standing animation. If you do it too quick you'll pkf off the stage and be kinda screwed but if you don't mess it up it's a quick way to land is all.

@Burnsey, good, I love hearing that other people appreciate that game, it's one of my all time favorites too, really takes gaming to a unique humorously artistic level. Earthbound did too but I thought Mother 3 managed to do it slightly better even.

 

[Master WGS]

Ah, okay. I thought you meant you could sh-pkf and have the freeze out to prevent people from coming in.

I'll see how your method works, though.

 

[sodapopSquid]

He's just, so fast.

 

[GunBlaze]

My friend Racuncai thanks all of Lucas' buffs. DAT BAIR O_O

 

[Burnsy]

Unless you were referring to one of his other buffs, I'm pretty sure his b-air change was purely aesthetic.

It is a nice powerful move tho, and although it's hitboxes are small there are a lot of juggles that lead into it.

 

[GunBlaze]

Unless you were referring to one of his other buffs, I'm pretty sure his b-air change was purely aesthetic.

It is a nice powerful move tho, and although it's hitboxes are small there are a lot of juggles that lead into it.

It's a lot faster now, actually

 

[Deus]

Would anyone be kind enough to list Lucas' changes from 2.1 to 2.5. Even just the ones you know if you don't know all of them would be awesome.

 

[GunBlaze]

Off the top of my head...

PK Shine's area is reduced, but you can turn around with it now.

Bair is much faster.

DSmash now only hits once

Offense Up Smashes were nerfed overall.

 

[DrinkingFood]

^
Dsmash hits more times if you press A... It's like Ike/link/tl/pit's two part smashes

 

[GunBlaze]

^
Dsmash hits more times if you press A... It's like Ike/link/tl/pit's two part smashes

Awesome.

But damn, so small ;_;

 

[Master WGS]

I don't remember the OU Smashes being nerfed...

Are you sure about that?

EDIT: Also, it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but the timing for his DACUS has been tightened. You now have a much smaller window than you did in 2.1 to input DACUS correctly.

 

[Burnsy]

Gunblaze, Where are you getting this all from?

Bair is much faster.

I've crawled through most of 2.5 Luca's moveset data side-by-side with his 2.1 data in PSA and Brawlbox and his b-air wasn't touched there. I just double checked, no changes to the speed nor the hitboxes.

PK Shine's area is reduced, but you can turn around with it now.

How was it's area reduced? I'm not trying to refute you here, this part actually confused me in the data, but it appears that the only changes were to the hitbox at the initial start-up part of the move (before repeating hitboxes happen).
Also, you could reverse it before, but the window for doing so was made a bit more lenient.

Offense Up Smashes were nerfed overall.

Also curious as to where you've heard this. Again, as far as I can tell, the moveset data says they are exactly the same and they feel exactly the same, in my opinion. But the offense up data can get pretty confusing so I'd like to know whether this is something you think is different or if you heard it from a developer.

 

[Deus]

I don't remember the OU Smashes being nerfed...

Are you sure about that?

EDIT: Also, it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but the timing for his DACUS has been tightened. You now have a much smaller window than you did in 2.1 to input DACUS correctly.

Yeah, at first I wasn't sure if they had just done away with it. Still can't say I'm extremely consistant with it yet.

 

[Master WGS]

Pretty sad when I'm gone for a week and there hasn't been a single post in the Lucas forums.

C'mon, guys.

 

[GHNeko]

Milkman has the best Lucas.

 

[TemPesT-]

vids?

still haven't bought a copy of brawl for p:m lol. i rebought a wii, and have it on my sd card, but dont wanna spend 30 bucks for brawl lol looking for a used copy.

 

[GunBlaze]

USB Loading?

 

[Master WGS]

I have the best Lucas. Travel to Ohio this weekend for a tournament and prove me wrong.

Please. I don't want to be the best. It's too big a burden to bear.

 

[No U]

I'll Lucas ditto mm you any day but I'm prooobably not going to be near Ohio... ever haha.

also that airdodge snake snap thing is pretty good if you're careful not to airdodge too high and reveal your head anyways

 

[Ishiey]

I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that we're probably all terrible

Lucas really needs to not get hit btw. People can borderline 0-death us off of a lot of random crap when they know the MU :x also, for zair to the ledge being really unsafe, I think it's a carry-over from Brawl where our hurtbox gets huge for no reason during the move. Not good.

Dtilt is pretty nice btw. Relatively quick/safe, the range is a bit better than the animation would like you to think, and it nets free combos at higher %s (even before popping opponents up). Anyone else finding it to be a pleasant surprise in Lucas's moveset?

 

[Master WGS]

I've always loved dtilt and never understood why people think it's bad.

 

[GHNeko]

ill get milkman vids up when i stop being lazy and chop up my source files.

 

[No U]

Dtilt into Fsmash is amazing at like 80-120% all day. Dtilt is just amazing in general and easily Lucas' best tilt. I love being able to judge peoples' tech skill by how quickly they can respond to repeated dtilts. Some people like never learn and you can just dtilt them 5x in a row every match, but good people learn to shield after the first one and punish you, so you have to grab them or start other pressure like nair through shield after that first dtilt.

And Ishieymoro I do tend to agree that all of you are terrible. None of you guys djcpkf into DACUS anywhere near enough, among a number of other things. A lot of you seem to underestimate nairspamming across the stage, you can rack up like 50% against most of the cast just doing that, and the only real defense I've discovered is spacies ccing it at low percents into shine, but that only works up until like 30% and they just get combo'd hard after that.

Lucas does get 0-death'd pretty easily but he 0-deaths just as proficiently if you're quick enough. He reminds me of Falco in a lot of ways. They're both semi-gimpable but also semi-able to not give a damn about how many stocks they have and make ultra combo comebacks.

 

[Burnsy]

I feel that using aerial down-b to space djc'd aerials could become a very strong aspect of his game, yet I rarely see it utilized.

In particular, jumping in and gliding towards them with down-b seems to be a pretty useful approach in my experience due to the ways you can it mix-up, but it might be easy to counter if you're predictable with it or spam it a lot.

If your reactions are good, or you can get a good read, you can make this pretty safe:

• If they shield it and you space the down-b well, you can land and keep the repeating boxes on them and wavedash out if they have the ability to OoS you, or keep it on them until they roll or are sheild poked if they can't. If they roll, simply wavedash out to get away, or if you are fast enough, to chase their roll and terrorize their now tiny shield.
• If you are too far for your magnet to hit them or their shield, you can djc fair which will often hit or at least be difficult to punish if they shield it, and unless they are expecting it they may be looking to punish your down-b rather than thinking about shielding.
• At low percents, you can often cancel the release hit of air magnet immediately into an djc aerial before they even go behind you
• If you sense danger or want to mix-up this option even more, you always have the option to jump out of the magnet and waveland in any direction or hop up out of your opponent's range/onto a platform. What this should mean is that this option has a very low level of commitment.
• Outside of approaching, aerial down-b can just be a helpful way of spacing your aerials when playing in the air against certain characters.

I'd like some other Lucas mains to experiment with this against the people they play, or at least tell me when you think doing this might be a bad idea. Maybe there's something I'm missing that's making me think this is stronger than it really is.

Related side-note: While coming up with this list I also thought about maybe djc pkf out of the jump-in magnet, but this mixup I haven't put into practice and I think that spacing it well might be an issue. If I find success with this I'll add it to this list.


Also, unrelated: GunBlaze, I still would like to know if those 2.5 changes are something you heard from players, the PMBR themselves, or if you are just basing these off your own gameplay impressions. As far as I can tell, the character moveset file changes between 2.1 and 2.5 disagree with a lot of what you say and I just want to make sure that false information is not spread.

 

[OSCA MIKE]

Down-B? More like PK Shine