Lucas General Discussion

[Kally Wally]

First impressions of 2.6 Lucas:

Offense Up is an attack when fully charged. 10%, solid knockback, standard keep-on-hit stuff. Comes out very fast.

Dair and Bair are cool.

Lucas is cool.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng

These new aerials are so good now, and I'd suggest everyone give the Offense Up a shot, it's pretty legit and looks cool as ****

EDIT: Also, Dthrow to Bair works beautifully.

EDIT 2: Missing with Fully charged Offense Up gets rid of it, and you will have to charge it again. Oh whoops Kally already mentioned it

EDIT TRES: Also, not sure if new, but you can hold his upTaunt and roll left/right or do a Get-up Attack

 

[Lukingordex]

Finally downloading 2.6,can't wait to play with Lucas

 

[NeonApophis]

His magnet got slightly nerfed by the removal of b-reverse magnet. You can still start it in the direction opposite of where you are facing, but you can't start it and then b-reverse it after the move comes out like in the last demo. I think Lucas is still better overall in this version due to his new aerials and neutral b, but I really wish they hadn't changed the magnet like this, since it takes away one of his most fun movement tricks, and it seems like they messed it up a little since if you land from an aerial and try to do a reverse down b you just do a pkf some of the time. It just feels unnecessarily clunky and inconsistent now. Hopefully in the next demo this will be fixed, either by reverting to the previous down-b or by smoothing out the mechanics of the newly restricted one. I'd obviously prefer that Lucas retain all of his movement options, but this change might be ok if it can be implemented a little bit better. Lucas still has some of the best aerial mobility in the game, so it's not a huge nerf or anything, but it definitely makes him a little less fun to play.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Just mentioning real quick, PKF feels differnt for sure when you fire it off, I had to adjust my timing for DJC as well as just regular usage.

 

[Hylian]

Just mentioning real quick, PKF feels differnt for sure when you fire it off, I had to adjust my timing for DJC as well as just regular usage.

You can now do Rising PKF which is why you are having to adjust your timing. I had the same problems at first.

 

[Shell]

The removal of Magnet B-reversal was an unintended consequence of making it start up one frame faster.

 

[NeonApophis]

The removal of Magnet B-reversal was an unintended consequence of making it start up one frame faster.

Oh, that's awesome. I was wondering why they would choose to remove that when there are so many things about Lucas that are way more broken. It's good to see that magnet will be even better once everything gets worked out.

 

[T-block]

Ah I'm glad to hear DJC PKF is still possible.

New d-air is <3

 

[SpiderMad]

This bair is broken

 

[Hylian]

I told you guys you were going to love the move changes haha. They were a hot topic of debate, but I think pretty much everyone in the PMBR feels satisfied with how they turned out. Lucas so fun.

 

[WeenusChu]

I have literally no idea what technique you guys are using to get DJC PKF off. If someone could explain how they're doing the jump from doubletap X to B that fast that'd be awesome.
I already have spring-jump on for DJC my aerials, so that's fine. I've got that down.

I'd like to bring this up though, not sure if anyone's noticed.
You can do an aerial PKF with the same speed/distance as a grounded one as long as you throw it just close enough to the ground before landing.
That'll no doubt get fixed, but enjoy the super long range safe approaches while you can.

 

[Lukingordex]

I don't have words to describe how much i'm satisfied with the new Lucas...

PK thunder got buffed? I feel like it is going a little further...

 

[Deleted member]

I'm loving the new-old aerials. They feel much less awkward to use than the other ones. Bair especially is awesome. It's like a combo of 2.5 Bair and 2.5 Dair.

 

[Sizzlorr217]

Is it just me or is the Up Smash, even with Offense Up, totally useless for Star KOing now?
It seems whenever I DACUS, any character needs about ~130% before flying off, whereas in 2.5 they needed just 90-110% (without OU).
I understand that the Usmash was kinda OP previously, but now the DACUS seems useless. For me atleast :v
Oh and the new Aerials are awesome.

 

[Shell]

Normal U-smash does have a wee bit less knockback growth but the stats on OU U-smash are unchanged.

 

[Oracle]

why does he have a little baby upsmash now

 

[Burnsy]

I have literally no idea what technique you guys are using to get DJC PKF off. If someone could explain how they're doing the jump from doubletap X to B that fast that'd be awesome.
I already have spring-jump on for DJC my aerials, so that's fine. I've got that down.

I'd like to bring this up though, not sure if anyone's noticed.
You can do an aerial PKF with the same speed/distance as a grounded one as long as you throw it just close enough to the ground before landing.
That'll no doubt get fixed, but enjoy the super long range safe approaches while you can.

The timing that got more difficult is that you now must hit B much sooner after you double jump. I'd say its like a 3-4 frame window or less. If you jump with X I am sorry (I did too, before this change) but you will probably need to DJ with Y so it is easier to slide your finger from jump to B.

Can anyone else confirm this "extended length" glitch with his aerial PKF?

Also just with dair alone my combos have gotten noticeably longer already.

Lukinhass, PKT's distance did get buffed but they also buffed the distance you go on a Magnet slide, so it is now viable to use to extend the distance of his airdodge tether recovery. So both were buffed. I still expect that the range where a PKT2 would make it back and a tether recovery wouldn't is still rather small.

Btw, that new move on his OU charged Neutral B is apparently referred to by the dev team as OU Burst. The hitbox comes out on frame one and he gets instant invincibility.

 

[fZk]

Is it me, or does dair do nothing? It has multiple kicks but only one ever seems to hit even when in contact with the opponent and when it does hits it has the same hitstun as Fox's laser.

 

[Revven]

Sounds like things didn't replace properly for you. Redownload and re-replace everything.

 

[hamyojo]

I'm really going to miss Ken comboing with Lucas.
That was my thing.

Oh well, I'll be alright. These changes are definitely making him better, so thanks for 'em.



Oh, and I'm using his first hits of dair like I use Fox's dair.
I'm not sure if this is okay or not or if I'm breaking any rules, but this is too good.

 

[fZk]

Sounds like things didn't replace properly for you. Redownload and re-replace everything.

Possibly, I just read people having issues with MK's down throw where the opponent pops out of the throw and the multi-hits do not connect.

Is there a vid of Lucas' dair hitting so that I could see what it looks like?

 

[fZk]

Can anyone else confirm this "extended length" glitch with his aerial PKF?

Yes it works if you do it right before you land, you get the distance of a grounded side B. It also travels much faster than the the aerial one.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I don't think it's cool that his Upsmash has to be strictly weaker than Fox/Pikachu's. If you want the characters to be able to match up to the Melee tops then you shouldn't make sure the attack is both Slower and weaker even if boosted. Smash was never a "Normalized" game... Some stuff was very over the top and that's fine~

 

[Dron]

not being able to B-reverse the magnet has been tripping me up a bit, I loved reverse magnet pulls

also babby usmash makes me cry on the inside

having a really good time overall though, bair and dair are neato

 

[Kally Wally]

Btw, that new move on his OU charged Neutral B is apparently referred to by the dev team as OU Burst. The hitbox comes out on frame one and he gets instant invincibility.

I independently named it PK Burst because it reminded my of Guilty Gear, and also it is a burst. Smash minds think alike.

Also, I feel like it's going to be insane in Turbo, whenever that happens.

 

[Burnsy]

It reminded me of a burst as well. It's in a lot of anime-style fighting games.

 

[_R@bid_]

I don't think it's cool that his Upsmash has to be strictly weaker than Fox/Pikachu's. If you want the characters to be able to match up to the Melee tops then you shouldn't make sure the attack is both Slower and weaker even if boosted. Smash was never a "Normalized" game... Some stuff was very over the top and that's fine~

This, so much this. I would be more considerate to the nerf if Fox also got his USmash PAlified, but that's pretty much a pipe dream.

 

[Shell]

Lucas's OU U-smash KOs Mario on FD at 81%, with proper survival DI in, 75% if they accidentally survival DI out on reflex.

Fox's U-smash KOs Mario on FD at 88%, with proper survival DI out.

Fox can land his easier with stuff like Shine Wavedash Up-smash, but Lucas still has a lot of combos that lead into direct Boost Smash (DACUS) KOs.

Technically though, it is not weaker.

 

[Sanyx]

JDC'ing Luca's side B is impossible now D: Might as well just SH side B >_<

 

[Kally Wally]

It's very possible. I find it to be easier now than it ever was, actually.

On a related note, someone mentioned in some thread that if you PKF at just the right moment in a short hop, so that it launches at the same time you land, it goes the same distance that it would if you used it on the ground, but without the ending lag. I can confirm that it works.

 

[Lumenebrae]

So the very last hitboxes of bair launch forwards if hit correctly?
Also is it just me/the visuals or has utilt's range been decreased slightly?

 

[Kally Wally]

Bair has two hits - a strong hit similar to the 2.5 bair, and a spike. The spike requires more precision.

No idea about utilt.

I'm an idiot.

 

[Shell]

It is possible to reverse the Bair KB trajectory if you hit deep enough.

U-tilt has very slightly less outer range as a product of refining the animation and GFX, but one of the hitboxes has been tied to his body better / properly.

 

[T-block]

Also confirming the grounded range with SH PK Freeze with the right timing. The window is pretty tight it seems... I wouldn't say it necessarily needs to be removed... =)

I had to switch to Y for my double jump to DJC PK Freeze as well... took less time to get used to than I thought it would. Now that we can do rising PKF, I think there might be potential to use it to PKF as we land on a platform, if the opponent has to tech on it or something - anyone found any other uses?

OU Burst is absolutely brilliant. A strong OoS option that Lucas really needed imo.

Any chance you could tell us when the first hitbox of d-air comes out, Shell?

 

[_R@bid_]

Absolutely love the new Lucas. This guy is definitely going to be my main now, even though he used to only be a secondary. Brawl Dair feels so much more natural and useful, and bair is really fun to spike with.
Also, I found a new way to DJC that I actually find easier than even SHFFling. With all default controls, hit up on the control stick just before hitting anywhere but up on the c-stick and you will buffer a double jump out of jump start. In 2.5, this would cause an automatic short hop. Immediately input the aerial you want after the c stick, and voila, easy DJC. This is best with directional aerials, since you can just keep your thumb on the c stick and immediately input the aerial rather than move to a different button.

 

[SpiderMad]

Absolutely love the new Lucas. This guy is definitely going to be my main now, even though he used to only be a secondary. Brawl Dair feels so much more natural and useful, and bair is really fun to spike with.
Also, I found a new way to DJC that I actually find easier than even SHFFling. With all default controls, hit up on the control stick just before hitting anywhere but up on the c-stick and you will buffer a double jump out of jump start. In 2.5, this would cause an automatic short hop. Immediately input the aerial you want after the c stick, and voila, easy DJC. This is best with directional aerials, since you can just keep your thumb on the c stick and immediately input the aerial rather than move to a different button.

You're saying this didn't work for 2.5?

 

[_R@bid_]

You're saying this didn't work for 2.5?

Nope, I always used that input to short hop since it meant I could continue to hold up on the control stick instead of having to let go super early, which I find much harder. Now, I get a buffered double jump with any character I try it with. Also, this trick is ridiculously easy for Ness, since the timing to input the aerial is much later and more lenient. I think it must come from his slower jump start. Lucas you have to move really fast to do the aerial. Haven't tried Peach,but there wouldn't be any use to it anyway since float canceling is so much better and easier.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I'm going to what will be one of the first 2.6 tournaments as a Lucas main come Saturday.

Hope to put in work! Will be training my ass off today

What are some character MUs you guys don't like?

 

[Master WGS]

I really don't like that burst move. It's worse than his incredibly situational wind KOs you could score once in a while with just hitting b after a full charge while opponents were off-stage in earlier demos.

Pretty fine with everything else, though.