Lucario Metagame General Discussion Current Topic: All about Aurasphere

[Col. Stauffenberg]

I once lived to 200% on Brinstar in doubles. Was lulzy.

But yeah don't go there. It's not even a good Lucario stage to begin with.

 

[RT]

I've experimented with PS2 before. It's another okay CP, but again, some characters can abuse the transformations more, especially the ice and electric (treadmill) ones. And the wind one messes up everything.

 

[culexus・wau]

qouting out of the social thread.

I also found it really effective against characters where you have to play really defensive, I've been able to time bair so I get the right effects when I want it, like the empty bair -> dash grab, or low lag bair -> fsmash. Full hop needs to be looked into more as lucario isn't really vulnerable underneath like other chars, plus it expands his option pool like soooooooo much lolol.

If they can react to it. it gets THAT MUCH WORSE, just saying.

adding options and mixing it up is very very good though and I can agree that bair can be useful sometimes.

Fullhops should be explored, Fullhop Fair OOS is really really really really good from I have seen.

 

[hough123]

After I posted on Aura's homepage, I got to thinking about some Lucario stuff again.
I'll post the full analysis later, but I might be a while. Your only hint is that I'll use Yin and Yang as a basis

(P.S., I'm thinking of getting back into Brawl, as life has been more open for me lately.)

 

[hough123]

An account of parallism as a means of playstyle for the character Lucario.

Intro
I'm never good with intros, so I'll get this one out of the way right now. This is an alternate view of playing Lucario, and is to be taken as a thought. I am posting this to allow you guys to see a new idea, and to critique it so that it may one day be used. I hope that this helps Lucario's game, even if the change is only miniscule.

Yin and Yang
In every playstyle, Lucario is full of opposites. Offence and defence, ground and air, winning and losing, and many more. This playstyle is based entirely on this fact. Primarily, it's based off of Lucario's aura boost. This playstyle works with the aura boost, as opposed to working seperate from it.

Before I tell you the playstyle, allow me to enlighten you to my train of thought. Lucario's metagame has long been a battle of two entities; Aggressive and Passive players.These two have fought since the very begining over the control of Lucario's metagame, and each one has been developed in different sections of our history. At the begining, Azen pushed an aggressive playstyle. In our drought, we pushed a passive playstyle. Currently, we are working on aggressive, while maintaining a primarily passive playstyle. In my mind, our stunted metagame may be caused because of the fact that we have treated Lucario as if he could only play one style or the other.

Thus brining me to my proposed style. My thought is to play passively until a definite point of our aura boost, then we will go aggressive. While you may think that this is old news, I have yet to see someone utilize it to it's full potential. In this playstyle, you would play safely, going defencively aggressive when possible until a specific damage. (Which I'm thinking will be 75%)At this point, you would go fully aggressive, and play defencivEly aggressive as a means of defence.

The theory still needs adapting, but I think that it will work well enough for now. I will go into mindsets in a later edit, but I want this post out there now.

Why passive?
In these sections, I will go into what I believe is the reason that people choose a side.

People may play passively because it works early in the game, and continues to work later as well. These people play what they know will work, and stick with it. Many of our best players are passive-aggressive, but they could benifit so much more from playing with aggression later in thier stock.

Why aggressive?
People play may play aggressively because they know that it will work later in the game. They then play full-throtle until they reach the threshhold of which it works the best. They get themselves into a self-fufilling cycle that works, but fails to work constantly. Aggressive players find trouble in characters that can shut them out, thus wasting thier aura boost. These people know what will work, and plan throughout the game to bring it to fruition.

Closing
Well, there you go. My big return post is over. I hope that this post may serve as a base for a new playstyle, but I can't say that it will. I'd be more than happy to see this fail, as long as the idea is out there to be studied and debated. I'd be even happier to see this work, but I will make no predictions.

~Hough123

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I like that summary of Lucario.

I prefer a mix of offense and defense, a bit more defense though.

 

[phi1ny3]

This mentality reminds me a lot of my old Lucario playstyle thread.

 

[hough123]

This mentality reminds me a lot of my old Lucario playstyle thread.

Only with more PSYCHOLOGY! which is a form of SCIENCE!

 

[Aurasmash14]

BBBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMPPPPPPP.

alright. i think our social thread has had enough spotlight already. i would really like to resume talking about stages and lucario's metagame again. we are never going to be able to take down pikachu just sitting around talking.

 

[phi1ny3]

So guyz, use that short dash animation. It's something great that could make our ground game pretty gewd. I've been practicing stuff w/ it, ranging from dash step -> fsmash, to dash step -> buffered reverse utilt. It's really, really useful lol, and unlike Marth's loooooong dash, can be used very well for spacing purposes.

 

[Kitamerby]

Fun fact, you can cancel your initial dash with a crouch, ala Dash Canceling. The proper term is "Naritake step" iirc. This lets us abuse Lucario's superb initial dash for lovely spaced fsmashes or dsmashes, or to utilt/ftilt from a distance.

I think this is what Phil meant.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yes, except I don't cancel with crouch (doesn't really matter, although I think crouch would let you get it done earlier possibly)

It's really, really useful.

 

[Aurasmash14]

an example would be nice phil

 

[phi1ny3]

Like how to do it? Or a video?

 

[culexus・wau]

Force Palm grab through hitboxes more guys.



it ****ing feels amazing.

 

[Aurasmash14]

a video or a detailed explanation of its uses would be nice :D

edit- Forcepalm grab Phantasm. The result is hilarious.

 

[phi1ny3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg61XaQvqMo

This pretty much, although you it's easier for Lucario imo, his dash animation is eeeeextremely short (kinda like Diddy's).

Moves I recommend using this for: jab, utilt (reversed preferred), grab, ftilt, fsmash, and dtilt. Oh and AS too I guess.

 

[Aurasmash14]

i can totally see uptilt and Ftilt.

lol only fsmash can reach us here and you wont risk it WTF??!!

only problem is tripping :/

 

[phi1ny3]

The thing is you're not going to out speed them (although it is surprising to some how fast the transition is) when you fsmash, it's to help space more quickly.

Tripping is a problem, but I think it's pretty minor, especially if you were to compare it to dash dancing or fox-trotting.

 

[Aurasmash14]

i was kinda thinking the guy did a naritake step into ftilt.

but yeah. this stuff looks pretty cool. ill try it out later

 

[phi1ny3]

^Yup, pretty much.

 

[culexus・wau]

something most of you might not know.

You can nair/dair after sh uair and dair after sh bair

for the dairs, don't do them with the c-stick.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah sometimes I like to do uthrow -> SH uair -> falling nair.

I didn't know that you could dair after SH bair though.

 

[culexus・wau]

both of these are amazing as cross-ups when its dangerous to be hit by one.

get ****ing crossed up.

 

[BH!Bane]

Hmm well I guess we don't need to master everything (because we already know some stuff that won't work), but at least we should look into some things that we know does have some potential.

Ex. B-Reversals (check to see if it can "bucket brake"), Non-Stall D-Air, complete Aura Sphere priority, framedata stuff (I be there might be even a frame trap with Double Team worth looking into), etc.

Not everyone has access to the framedata stuffs (I don't), but I'm sure the other things could be tested by just about anyone who has Brawl.

The Aura Sphere priority thing is very important in my eyes... Wouldn't you love to know exactly when something will cause something like Snake's Grenades to be blown up? That will open up all sorts of additional mindgames that will increase Lucario's options.

DAir has some other goofy properties that need to be looked to as well...

Here's something I found after Kitamerby mentioned some shield pressure shenanigans in the Lucario xat chat...If you shield break someone's shield with DAir at the edge of a stage you can push their body off of the stage when they spring up since you're already in the air, they won't grab the edge, and they will simply plummet to their death.

I feel inspired, so I'm going to look into the Aura Sphere Priority things now and gather some delicious data. Om nom.

I was thinking the same about b-reversal, even double team since it do slows down your momentum somewhat.

On another note, I simply think that Lucario is a simple character who should be played simple, swift, and at mid-range. Our back/foward throw gives us enough time to follow up with an AS. There's really no need to be flashy IMO.

 

[HyperEnergy]

Lucario can work with or without flash; it's all up to a person's play style.

Also, I now think the reversed B-reversal is the best thing since the conception of the Aura Sphere.

It is one of our best options from a neutral situation because we can easily get into the opponent's range to bait a reaction while remaining almost completely safe AND still be able to punish easily without having to commit to that punish (bonus points if you have an almost FCAS).

And beyond that we can condition our opponents to not throw out anti-air attacks whenever we're in range of them.

 

[phi1ny3]

Okay, so guys, Trela's been telling me the wonderful option that is fullhop fair. This is supposed to be really, really good against Snake, Peach, DDD, etc. Like I've stressed before, full hop stuff is much safer to use with lucario (and sometimes more beneficial) than Marth, Wolf, etc. as we don't have to worry as much about walling, and our underside is pretty safe (b-reversal and dair are very helpful, as well as other options). Full hop fair seems pretty hard to punish as well.

Junebug, Trela, and I really want to stress how important it is to understand the differences between our SH options and FH options.

 

[culexus・wau]

bump.

I think this a good thread and we need a "Metagame General"

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ownership has been given to FlamewaveK.

 

[culexus・wau]

this is now the Lucario Metagame General Discussion.

enjoy your stay, if you need your silly fix the Lucario Sexy General Discussion is on the isle to the left.

kk discuss the metagame you ****ing furries [<3 you all]

 

[Alus]

Um... What to say...?

I find forcepalm to be a incredible mixup?

 

[culexus・wau]

Itsa kill move that beats shield

 

[RT]

FP grab is really used enough imo...but I can see why, mostly because of the great amount of risk involved, both with getting close and whiffing. Still, if you get it off, it'll almost always be a fresh kill move.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I find Norfair to be a great CP. Ledges everywhere combined with our ledgegrab range. Just beware of pocket MKs.

Also, FP is great. I actually use it to condition an opponent to expect it. I find people trying to spot dodge it a lot, so I go Jab > Jab > FSmash after they start expecting it.

 

[phi1ny3]

FP at low-mid percents also sets opponents up on a good angle for lots of stuff, even if they DI so that you can't fair string them.

Also, people should take advantage of the trap move that is utilt. Just because utiltx4 doesn't work like it did in 08 doesn't mean it isn't useful for other stuff. Seriously, you'll see trela do utilt -> jab -> grab. You can replace another utilt with other more damaging options.

 

[Oro?!]

What is the consensus on ZSS Lucario?

 

[phi1ny3]

more or less even

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

ZSS is annoying to fight CQC because you're going to take a lot of damage if you get stunned. ZSS has a hard time getting damage in around Lucario's camping, however.

 

[culexus・wau]

Evenish

In the air we're sort of even, but bair wins in the our fair their bair trade [same thing with fair].

ZSS can downB out of fair strings but if you can read it - turnaround AS ***** that LOL

YOU CAN DI out of jab and dair... but you need to be already holding up/need super fast reaction speed.

ZSS has a hard time dealing with spaced fair pressure on her shield [watch out for Uair OOS]

and a SORT OF HARD time getting in on camping [I never had too MUCH trouble tbh]

if they're not careful its not uncommon to gimp zss but don't expect it every time.

ZSS's doesn't exactly have a hard time killing but her pressure, guranteed kills/damage off a dsmash hit for reading our habits, and speed can give you a hard time.

pretty much even IMO just don't get dsmashed.

 

[Oro?!]

Lucario makes me rage. Marth makes me think Lucario is a joke though. Discuss.