Lucario match up discussion (I can feel the Aura!)

[Berserker.]

vs

Discuss

 

[Croi]

While Lucario struggles to get into most characters with swords, Shulk doesn't have the frame data, for the most part, to be able to keep him out. Most of Lucario's MUs involve him going in hard at low percent, because his low Aura lets him combo well, and hanging back and pockmarking his opponent when he's at high Aura with Spheres and Force Palms.

Shulk is in an interesting spot because his five stances realistically have an answer to everything Lucario can try. Speed means Lucario can't camp as well as he'd like; Jump means he can't camp the blastzone with his superior recovery; Smash means he's in danger of death before he can truly utilize his Aura. However, Shield might do more harm than good because then Lucario can combo even at high Aura, and Shulk tanking a kill move would only be a minor inconvenience, and Buster not only lets Lucario string longer, but now his own hits do more damage when he desperately needs them (assuming both are at 0)

Overall I'd say the MU is Lucario's to win. In neutral, because of your less-than-stellar frame data, you generally have only one or two chances to keep us out. If you can, great - but eventually, we're not going to need to get in.

 

[Berserker.]

This can hopefully prevent MU scores from being the main point of discussion.

WHY? Anyway it won't matter on whose favor you think it is because it won't be marked anyway

Yes, Shulk's frame data is garbage. That's obvious but it's compensated by his insane disjoint (best range in the game). He's still capable of spacing out/keeping out other fighters (that is his main playstyle anyway)

You explain how Lucario can exploit shield and buster, but you disregard his options while he's in those arts? Did you know that he takes lesser hitsun while in shield art. Even at points, throws are UNSAFE when Shulk is on shield. Shield is great for basically playing defensively and punishing CQC. It can be camped out though and you're better off trying to camp it. Buster is still useful because Shulk's attacks deal more shield damage and pushback (plus it makes his attacks even safer than before) so it helps in spacing. It is risky because you can also potentially rack him up to aura percentage which is why controlling buster usage is important.

Still, I think speed art is the best art to use in this match up for safe damage racking and for a more solid neutral, then there's jump art. With jump, Shulk can take a stock easily at ~60% with n-air > f-air > f-air so if you manage to land a n-air while Lucario is somewhere near the edge, just land 2 more f-airs then you won't have to deal with the aura for that stock. Despite everything I said about buster and shield, I don't use them that much for the match up (But I wouldn't really dump them as "useless" for the match up).

As for Lucario, try your best to land those shield grabs. Shulk hates close range pressure so you'd always want to exploit him once he's at your general range because your moves are 99% likely to outspeed his. Shield art can be dealt via camping, or you can try Little Mac'ing and throwing him off the edge. Jump art is annoying to deal with but shield grabbing and being alert to the several mix ups will help you. Speed art is basically the same with jump, although the reward for getting into Shulk is significantly smaller. Buster art can be camped but once Shulk is at mid-range, you can try getting in but buster art's damage potential is at its fullest when Shulk manages to transition from mid-range to close-range.

 

[Crilixz]

I feel that Shulk Wins as long as he can keep the pressure on Lucario Mid-Game with his speed and jump arts.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

My #1 sparring partner is a shulk main and in my opinion I think the match up is exactly even. Lucario can attack shulks landings with shield-grabs into true combos and generally wins in neutral and benefits by having a projectile, but even if I get shulk to kill % quickly, I also need to take a solid amount of % to be able to kill and he can still put on shield and live to crazy amounts of rage where he can kill me early. I also think it is tough for lucario to clutch out kills on shulk since our smash moves are slow and our aerials get outranged so much. Usually our matches are won by the first person to get a kill because high aura lucario can camp projectiles and shied grab most approaches extending the lead easily. But if shulk gets the first kill, low % lucario wont be able to kill him until atleast 50-60% (not to mention with the use of shield) extending their lead and reducing the safe kill potential of our aura sphere. Reads are also key in the match-up, lucario can double team on reaction a lot of shulks slow aerials like nair bair or fair but shulks counter can be absolutely devastating in terms of kill power.

TLDR: I think the match-up is even, taking the first stock can be essential in 2 stock matches, but in the end I think the better player is going to win regardless.

Also keep in mind that coming across a good lucario main is very rare. We have many tricks up our sleeves in terms of using b-reverses, wavebounces and aura sphere charge to net kills and extra damage so keep this in mind before deciding on match-up numbers.

 

[Berserker.]

OP updated

 

[mario123007]

I really hope you guys remember that match up favors/scores aren't even being noted down here. Only pure input on how each character can deal with each other.

Thanks

So just talking about both of their pros and cons?
I personally hate Lucario in Smash, he is really annoying to fight with. Lucario's moves are fast, except his side Smash. With his aura charged, Shulk will be pain in the neck.

I might use 疾 monado more often when dealing with Lucario, and performing MALLC can made this MU a bit favorable for Shulk, I'm just afraid that I might trapped in Lucario's juggle.

 

[Eeveecario]

Hi! Greetings from the Lucario thread!

Shulk is an amazing, versatile fighter who can adapt to most of the game-play (why he's not my secondary at least in the first place...?). He has speed, range, kill options and combos. He's pretty cool!

IMO, talking as an even skilled matchup, the one who has a stronger mix-up game-play can win the game. Both fighters have easy-to-read smashes, if they're shielded, then you're in trouble.

While Shulk can control the pace of the battle with his long reaching attacks, getting to close will make Lucario have the advantage. And while Lucario can control the pace of the battle with his projectiles, spacing correctly will create huge windows to counter.

One requirement for Lucarios, in order to be able to face Shulk and have a chance to win, is that he must respect the monado changes. Adapting to the current monado and countering is a must if you want to have a chance.

In conclusion, it's an even match-up, and maybe one of the most interesting and hypest MU to see! (As long as neither side is spamming moves). Also, feel free to ask for some matches as I would like to see a good Shulk! Looking forward for this MU!

 

[Masonomace]

One tip for both sides of the MU (I play both characters, though I don't have much to say):

1. The Shulk player musn't be careless when recovering to the ledge against a Lucario who's mindful / aware that Shulk's Air Slash doesn't snap to the ledge that safely. Whether it's the regular Aura Sphere, Snaring Sphere, or Piercing Sphere, Shulk has to play it safe with snapping to the ledge with his Air Slash, Advancing Air Slash, & Mighty Air Slash's startup of the 1st or 2nd hit. If the Shulk isn't careful, they'll be gimped by the Piercing Spheres or be outright KOd by Snaring / regular Aura Sphere.
   
   
2. The Lucario player should be mindful of the Jump / DJump / HJump & Smash / DSmash / HSmash Arts on or off-stage whenever the Shulk player has stage control & zones the ledge. One mistake on the Lucario player's end may result in an early death which becomes a great deficit & more effort for the Lucario player to catch up.

EDIT:

Also, feel free to ask for some matches as I would like to see a good Shulk! Looking forward for this MU!

I'm not that good, but as a small reply, I'd be glad to ask for some matches with you.

 

[erico9001]

One tip for both sides of the MU (I play both characters, though I don't have much to say):

Oh hey, I'm surprised you're posting in a MU thread!

1. The Shulk player musn't be careless

Were you meaning to sound like Dunban?

when recovering to the ledge against a Lucario who's mindful / aware that Shulk's Air Slash doesn't snap to the ledge that safely. Whether it's the regular Aura Sphere, Snaring Sphere, or Piercing Sphere, Shulk has to play it safe with snapping to the ledge with his Air Slash, Advancing Air Slash, & Mighty Air Slash's startup of the 1st or 2nd hit. If the Shulk isn't careful, they'll be gimped by the Piercing Spheres or be outright KOd by Snaring / regular Aura Sphere.


[*]The Lucario player should be mindful of the Jump / DJump / HJump & Smash / DSmash / HSmash Arts on or off-stage whenever the Shulk player has stage control & zones the ledge. One mistake on the Lucario player's end may result in an early death which becomes a great deficit & more effort for the Lucario player to catch up.

Agreed.

EDIT:

I'm not that good, but as a small reply, I'd be glad to ask for some matches with you.

You are a good Shulk player.

Anyways, firstly, I do not recommend advancing air slash for this Match-up. It's way too easy for Lucario to hit you away with aura sphere, as your more horizontal recovery will be in line of sight of the move. AAS usually has enough power to deal with projectiles off-stage, but aura sphere eats through the hitbox of AAS's first slash.

Okay, so from my experience, any of the neutral monado art strategies are fine. I have not tried out mostly shield strategy, however.

Get Lucario to Monado Smash kill percents, and try to kill him there. Above all else, get him out as early as possible! For reference, he's just about Shulk's weight and fall speed (a little lighter in both regards).

Monado Shield should not be very good against this character when both are at high percents, because Lucario's spacing becomes much more difficult to deal with. I would actually recommend either Jump or Speed instead for this MU (I'm a person who loves surviving until really high percents with Shield, so I don't like that.) Also, without advancing air slash, monado shield is hurt anyways. If you are very comfortable with your art changes, Smash is good if you know you're in a position where you know Lucario cannot kill you (ie. momentum in your favor).

That's all I have for facing this pokemon for now.

 

[mario123007]

One tip for both sides of the MU (I play both characters, though I don't have much to say):

1. The Shulk player musn't be careless when recovering to the ledge against a Lucario who's mindful / aware that Shulk's Air Slash doesn't snap to the ledge that safely. Whether it's the regular Aura Sphere, Snaring Sphere, or Piercing Sphere, Shulk has to play it safe with snapping to the ledge with his Air Slash, Advancing Air Slash, & Mighty Air Slash's startup of the 1st or 2nd hit. If the Shulk isn't careful, they'll be gimped by the Piercing Spheres or be outright KOd by Snaring / regular Aura Sphere.
   
   
2. The Lucario player should be mindful of the Jump / DJump / HJump & Smash / DSmash / HSmash Arts on or off-stage whenever the Shulk player has stage control & zones the ledge. One mistake on the Lucario player's end may result in an early death which becomes a great deficit & more effort for the Lucario player to catch up.

EDIT:

I'm not that good, but as a small reply, I'd be glad to ask for some matches with you.

Most dangerous scenario for Shulk is that when he finishes the air slash right at above the stage's ledge. Lucario can just punishe him, or blast him with Aura Sphere, I've seen this a lot.