~Lucario Match-Up Chart/Discussion- Rotation Eighteen: Olimar~

[Timbers]

If ROB grabs you while he's on the retracting platforms, it's an easy kill for him at any percent if he can bthrow you during the platform pulling back. It's a dumb idea to try and go after him if he's on it.

His gimp game overall doesn't improve any here. If anything your recovery has a better shot thanks to the walls. Just saying the moving platforms on the edges are stupid and annoying lol.

 

[OneWingedAngelo1]

Hmm... I would of thought Blood Hawk would be one of the best authorities on this match up since he plays Overswarm regularly... who knew...

 

[Timbers]

I just gave my opinion on it.

If Hawk wants to give his own opinion then he's more than welcome to, but he hasn't yet.

 

[phi1ny3]

I would talk a bit if I had gone to the tourney with t0mmy, but I didn't, but I could give some 2 cents, but I'll do it later.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Lucario is at a disadvantage to ROB.

You can't gimp ROB. You need to flat out kill him. While ROB is fodder for many, many of Lucario's combos, things like ROB's FTilt/FAir/DSmash/etc, are all very powerful, quick, and have range, and stand to interrupt much of Lucario's flow.

ROBs will get you over the ledge and keep you from returning, so fighting him from the stage is the best bet until you take control of the match.

If ROB is approaching with a SHAerial, Lucario's best option is to shield whatever it is and punish it as soon as it ends.

If ROB uses NAir, shield it and roll away from ROB to get out of DSmash range, and avoid a possible grab, both of which can be punished with a step forward and an FSmash, or better yet, an aura sphere.
If it is FAir, you can just shield grab or whatever you fancy out of a shield.
If it is a BAir, do what you would do for FAir.
If it is a UAir, wtf?
If it is a DAir, punish that crap.

When ROB is pushed to a ledge, he'll more than likely ledge camp with Tops/Lasers/NAirs from the ledge, and drop down and grab it again.
The best way to combat this is to fake him out and DAir him. Trying to approach him from the ground will get you attacked more often than not, and at least using DAir you can slow yourself down as you approach.

If you DI downwards and to the side after any of ROBs throws, you should be safe from a majority of his follow ups, most notably his laser.

If you're both at low percents and he fires his top, go ahead and grab it before you start chaining Force Palms on him, so he can't charge another one after he escapes. You can chain him for a relatively long time too.

ROB still outlives Lucario though, unless Lucario is cranking 150% and gets in a Tippered FSmash on the ledge, you're looking at ROB living past 140% per stock.

Best stage for Lucario is Luigi's Mansion or Norfair against ROB. The best neutral is probably Yoshi's Story. Its about racking up damage and staying alive, right? Sounds good to me.

-DD

 

[Timbers]

Agreed with Dark, excluding the ROB advantage and stage picks (wut o_O)

ROB won't and shouldn't live till 140%. Lucario lives a very long time against ROB. Avoid the nair and you're golden. A fresh one won't even kill you until 130% when grounded. Coupled with the fact that it's heavily telegraphed and you should be looking at a good 150% to each stock. ROB isn't stupid heavy. He's like, 9th heaviest? I believe he's tied or right next to Wario. ROB's gimp game is good, but not in the likes of Marth or MK. Unless he's really good at hitting you with the lingering hitbox of an fair (lol) then he won't be gimping you so long as you never jump into the ****.

Full auraspheres are golden at keeping ROB away when recovering, too. He's not like Marth in the sense that he can easily deal with him, and doesn't have the aerial options that MK does.

Lucario's dair is very nice on ROB. Can prevent ledgecamping and if ROB makes the mistake of recovering too low, he's getting ***** and/or stagespiked by Luc's dair.

Whiffed dsmashes, ftilts, nairs, fairs are all asking to be punished with Luc's fsmash. All of those moves have tremendous afterlag (fair with it's landing lag)

I have no idea how it's in ROB's favor. Neutral yes, advantage for either..no.

 

[emoklops]

Timbers, you disagreed with the stage picks.
Would you pls tell which stages you would pick/avoid?

I don't want to offend you, it's just like I have no idea...

 

[Timbers]

Norfair and Mansion are good stages for ROB. I honestly couldn't say whether he's better on Mansion and Norfair than Lucario is, but he does very well on both of those stages (excluding several matchups) and Yoshi's Island is neutral at best between the two of them. ROB suffers on Battlefield, that's really the only stage where ROB does poorly on that Luc can take advantage.

ROB is scary good on Castle Siege I've found. That's entirely opinion, and don't take it to heart, but other ROB mainers seem to agree. I don't play Lucario on Siege though so I couldn't tell you how Luc does there. Other good stages for ROB are Japes and Frigate.

 

[G-Beast]

after playing many more ROB mains im gonna have to say neutral for both.
we can punish them well, and they can do stuff to us with nair and usmash and many other things too numerous to spell out. priority seems even on both sides with obvious differences like dair vs ROBs uair

 

[M@v]

I use fox in this matchup. But whenever I wind up having to use lucario, it always seems a little harder than with fox. Probably because I dont have a reflector :/. Anyway, it seems pretty even to me. Just watch out for some of ROBs stronger moves, like nair, bair, and usmash. ROBS dsmash is so annoying, and a lot of robs spam it. When I come up against dsmash spammers, I just counter it.

 

[Timbers]

Most annoying move for me against a ROB is the bair. Stupid move, stupid stupid move.

 

[G-Beast]

ROBs dsmash needs redicuously high %s to KO, so it gives us free Aura as far as im concerned

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Thinking of any attack as "free aura" is a bad philosophy to have.

 

[tedward2000]

Thinking of any attack as "free aura" is a bad philosophy to have.

NICE HES CHARGING A DSMASH!!
AURA COOKIES FOR ME!!
-t2

 

[XavantTheEnigma]

I HERD THER WAS SUM COOKIES.

*overwrites Rob's programming with spacing viruses*

 

[DarkDragoon]

>_> Well, in the Mansion he can't Ledge Camp with Projectiles, and while both of you can survive for a ridiculous amount of time, aura bonuses stack up like a destructive force, and his attacks just get weaker.

<_< Norfair is just for the fact that the unevenness of it makes his projectiles less useful, and the large amount of ledges make it hard for your recovery to get gimped.

o.o; And all the ROBs I play don't do bad on Battlefield, they do bad on Yoshi's.

>_> Uneven ground really screws with stuff for them.

-DD

 

[G-Beast]

what i ment by free aura is this:
an attack that you inevitibly got hit by that needs ridiculous % to KO(if possible) at when your able to be KOed by a stronger attack that he/she could have used, but did not. examples, ROB using DSmash when your at ~130% or fox using his blaster on you at 130% when he could be finding a way to land a KO on you

 

[bludhoundz]

>_> Well, in the Mansion he can't Ledge Camp with Projectiles, and while both of you can survive for a ridiculous amount of time, aura bonuses stack up like a destructive force, and his attacks just get weaker.

-DD

ROB's lasers go through the pillars in Luigi's Mansion.

 

[Sinz]

In my opinion, it is much better to counter rob on Rainbow cruise, than on Luigi's Mansion.

Rainbow cruise kills his camping abilities :D

 

[Nines~Tempest]

I hate rob.

I think it's 60:40 Rob.

GG continue discussion plz

 

[DarkDragoon]

ROB's lasers go through the pillars in Luigi's Mansion.

>.> Well, I was talking about the top.
The laser is just stupid.

>_> I forgot about Rainbow.
That sounds good to me.
-DD

 

[dj_pwn1423]

In my opinion, it is much better to counter rob on Rainbow cruise, than on Luigi's Mansion.

Rainbow cruise kills his camping abilities :D

why camp when he can gimp you in 8 secs? :D

 

[Trapt497]

why camp when he can gimp you in 8 secs? :D

exactly. i really don't think rainbow is a good stage to counter ROB at all. It is fun, however, when he runs out of fuel and falls to his demise :D. But that doesn't happen very often, especially if the ROB know's what he's doing.

 

[Alus]

>_> Well, in the Mansion he can't Ledge Camp with Projectiles, and while both of you can survive for a ridiculous amount of time, aura bonuses stack up like a destructive force, and his attacks just get weaker.

<_< Norfair is just for the fact that the unevenness of it makes his projectiles less useful, and the large amount of ledges make it hard for your recovery to get gimped.

o.o; And all the ROBs I play don't do bad on Battlefield, they do bad on Yoshi's.

>_> Uneven ground really screws with stuff for them.

-DD

um.... i cant imagine rob doing bad on yoshi's....can someone explain? i havent played many robs...

why camp when he can gimp you in 8 secs? :D

When who can gimp who? and how in 8 seconds?

 

[Trapt497]

When who can gimp who? and how in 8 seconds?

He claimed that Rainbow Ride is an ideal stage for ROB to gimp Lucario. And maybe it was an exageration. But it seriously is a dangerous stage to be playing ROB if he knows how to gimp.

^^dj said this because earlier someone claimed Rainbow Ride to be a good counterpick vs ROB (if you are Lucario). His reasons were the fact that he can't resort to camping since the stage keeps moving. However, as I just said, its gimp haven for ROB.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Mmmm...not necessarily. There are more platforms at that level than any other stage in the game, so really he won't be killing you with his dair very much, if at all. And if he hits you with it out of your up-B? That's your fault, because you shouldn't even be using that move on Rainbow Cruise anyways. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to use ES on this stage, so the gimping thing shouldn't be a threat.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

Stupid computer...double post. My bad.

 

[Trapt497]

^^lol its ok

Mmmm...not necessarily. There are more platforms at that level than any other stage in the game, so really he won't be killing you with his dair very much, if at all. And if he hits you with it out of your up-B? That's your fault, because you shouldn't even be using that move on Rainbow Cruise anyways. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to use ES on this stage, so the gimping thing shouldn't be a threat.

I guess so. Its easier said than done to 'not get gimped.' I see what you mean though with the platforms. You have to admit though, on that stage, if you get knocked off and the ROB knows how to gimp, you're screwed. You can't stay on the platforms forever, he will eventually knock you off.

I've had situations where I've had to use ES on that stage. There are times when it needs to be used. But they aren't frequent. For example, the stage is scrolling to the right, the swinging pendelum disappears. Then you get knocked off to the left, where the pendulum used to be. If you can picture what I'm talking about, you'd need to recover with ES. Which sets up a situation that ROB could gimp you.

 

[dj_pwn1423]

wtf who cares about Dair? ROB can beast you all day with Fair in that stage >:O

 

[Trapt497]

who said anything about d-air?

 

[Alus]

who Said Anything About D-air?

down here....
|
V

mmmm...not Necessarily. There Are More Platforms At That Level Than Any Other Stage In The Game, so Really He Won't Be Killing You With His Dair Very Much, If At All. And If He Hits You With It Out Of Your Up-b? That's Your Fault, Because You Shouldn't Even Be Using That Move On Rainbow Cruise Anyways. There Is Absolutely No Need Whatsoever To Use Es On This Stage, So The Gimping Thing Shouldn't Be A Threat.

 

[DuskMarthWater]

^^lol its ok



I guess so. Its easier said than done to 'not get gimped.' I see what you mean though with the platforms. You have to admit though, on that stage, if you get knocked off and the ROB knows how to gimp, you're screwed. You can't stay on the platforms forever, he will eventually knock you off.

I've had situations where I've had to use ES on that stage. There are times when it needs to be used. But they aren't frequent. For example, the stage is scrolling to the right, the swinging pendelum disappears. Then you get knocked off to the left, where the pendulum used to be. If you can picture what I'm talking about, you'd need to recover with ES. Which sets up a situation that ROB could gimp you.

Mmmm...I deleted the wrong post. The other one in my double post sequence talked about more stuff he can gimp you with. If you DI right you shouldn't have too much trouble with fair either.

I do agree though, that if you get knocked off you're pretty much screwed. Using ES is really not very common on the stage, is what I meant. You will use it, but VERY RARELY. Agreed.

I suppose the verdict would be an OK stage then? Not too bad, but not the best we could CP with?

 

[Timbers]

>_> Well, in the Mansion he can't Ledge Camp with Projectiles, and while both of you can survive for a ridiculous amount of time, aura bonuses stack up like a destructive force, and his attacks just get weaker.

<_< Norfair is just for the fact that the unevenness of it makes his projectiles less useful, and the large amount of ledges make it hard for your recovery to get gimped.

o.o; And all the ROBs I play don't do bad on Battlefield, they do bad on Yoshi's.

>_> Uneven ground really screws with stuff for them.

-DD

Ledgecamping is pretty bad against Lucario for ROB. Luc's midrange projectile game severely outweighs ROB's. ROB can abuse the confined area much better than Lucario, and hides his blindspot very well.

Norfair has very close blastzones, it's not necessarily a good stage, and ROB players have considered it a good stage for them unless Metaknight or Snake were to take them there.

Utilize ROB's weaknesses on Battlefield. If he's ever forced onto a platform, you can screw with him very well. Yoshi's has never been a problem for ROB. Angled edges make it harder for him to ledgecamp, but the tradeoff being that dtilt and ftilt become amazing edgeguarders.

ROB is good on Lylat. Lylat is uneven.

what i ment by free aura is this:
an attack that you inevitibly got hit by that needs ridiculous % to KO(if possible) at when your able to be KOed by a stronger attack that he/she could have used, but did not. examples, ROB using DSmash when your at ~130% or fox using his blaster on you at 130% when he could be finding a way to land a KO on you

Big difference there. Dsmash throws you into the air and you take hitstun. Lasers send you no where and you're able to move freely at all times.

In my opinion, it is much better to counter rob on Rainbow cruise, than on Luigi's Mansion.

Rainbow cruise kills his camping abilities :D

ROB cannot camp Lucario. This is pretty irrelevant. Cruise is also a, "whoever has to go up first loses" type of match. Luc has a bad recovery and therefore has to continuously go through the platforms. ROB can chill on the bottom and come up whenever. It hides his blindspot, basically, and if Luc is constantly moving he's forced to use his uB which can either be spiked or punished. ROB isn't particularly good on the stage anyways, but Luc is definitely bad on here as well.

 

[Trapt497]

down here....
|
V

Ah, ok, idk how i missed that.

Well, dj, this is true...f-air is a great gimping move. But d-air is such a dang good spike I don't see why not to use it, if you are ROB. They are both good...no one 'doesn't care' about either one. But Erich is right, Rainbow isn't the best stage to attempt a spike on.

Mmmm...I deleted the wrong post. The other one in my double post sequence talked about more stuff he can gimp you with. If you DI right you shouldn't have too much trouble with fair either.

I do agree though, that if you get knocked off you're pretty much screwed. Using ES is really not very common on the stage, is what I meant. You will use it, but VERY RARELY. Agreed.

I suppose the verdict would be an OK stage then? Not too bad, but not the best we could CP with?

Ok. I'm glad we're agreed :D.

Um...yeah, right in the middle sounds about good. However, if the ROB can gimp well, especially with f-air, I highly suggest not picking this stage.

I enjoyed that in-depth discussion on one stage haha. Should we move on to a new stage to talk about while we wait for Jeepy?

 

[dj_pwn1423]

Ah, ok, idk how i missed that.

Well, dj, this is true...f-air is a great gimping move. But d-air is such a dang good spike I don't see why not to use it, if you are ROB.

its a spike... but im not so sure of it being good compared to say... falco?

...

man spikes got nerfed...

 

[emoklops]

its a spike... but im not so sure of it being good compared to say... falco?

...

man spikes got nerfed...

Sure it's worse than Falco's, but it's a good move anyway. It spikes from time to time.

 

[manhunter098]

Well, I have to say that after attending a pretty large tournament on Saturday that my opinion on the ROB matchup changed a bit. I would put it mostly 60:40 in ROBs favor. His projectiles are very superior to ours. Both characters are about equally effective in the air and on the ground ROB has the advantage too.

I found that trying to mindgame a f-smash like Azen does tends to flat out not work against a ROB mostly because his thought is to simply spam projectiles at you if you are out of reach rather than trying to chase. He can also deal pretty with with any edge guard attempts by just flying lower and then trying to u-air, which clears the air above him very well and he can follow it up with an air dodge and a little bit more fuel to make it all the way back. His spot dodge to down smash didnt really seem to be that effective against me though, mostly because as Lucario I avoided a confrontation on the ground so he didnt have too many opportunities for that. But overall its an uphill battle for Lucario if the ROB is playing a campy game.

 

[DarkDragoon]

>_> Well, since the ROB I play is a ledge camping fiend, and I usually manage to stay on the stage, or at least DI out of his edge guards...or just wall cling... is kinda why I win on Yoshi's so much. !@_@!
But yea. Stuff.
-DD

 

[Timbers]

its a spike... but im not so sure of it being good compared to say... falco?

...

man spikes got nerfed...

ROB's spike is probably the worst in the game. The entire hitbox isn't a sweetspot, and it's the slowest spike evar. Not exactly powerful. The only thing it has going for it is it has a pretty big horizontal hitbox. It's still lacking in the vertical range though, which is necessary against most characters.

I give best spike to Ness or Samus, Falco as well if we're not seperating the spike from the rest of his game (chaingrab into spike) as Falco can't actually go beneath stage level to spike someone, lol.

 

[TK Wolf]

I have major problems landing a finishing hit on Rob...