Looking to get into Sheik. What do?

[Kazenova]

I never got into Sheik in melee, brawl or PM but I'm thinking of getting her in Smash 4 since my current lineup of mains aren't that fast and I feel like I should have a speedy character under my belt to balance things out. (or maybe I'm just over analyzing pointless match up things I dunno) I don't expect to become a pro Sheik just from reading things, but what are some things I should practice? So far I've discovered that Bair is pretty good while Fair seems to have been nerfed compared to melee (based on watching M2K play her). Are the new side-B and down-B worth ever using? Any special strats against certain types of characters like fast fallers/spacies (I have learned that Ftilt is good for some juggling here), heavy weights, speedy types (like ZSS or Greninja) or floaties?

 

[Terramorphic]

learn the spacing on Down B, it's very important because it's one of her kill moves, can be used in edge guarding, can be used to get back to the ledge, if spaced properly, can also be used to counter projectiles.

Practice short hopping, a common tactic is to combo Ftilts, and if you're good, you can short hop into a forward air.

Learn to grab well, Sheik has a strong grab range and can combo down throw into Up air for damage as well as Kill potential.

try to space out with needles, sheik is an offensive character, but a lot of the time you'll need to find an opening to carry your momentum, needles are really strong for this especially against the players that roll and dash a lot.

Sheiks kill moves are up air, and Bouncing fish, I've killed with forward smash as well. She's also really strong at gimping and edge guarding, with her forward air, needles to steal jumps, her side b can be used from the ledge, and her back air can be used to stage spike. her Up B is also a kill move, but its hilariously unsafe. short hop needles can be annoying when trying to get back to the ledge for characters with weaker recovery, you can steal jumps easily with this.

Last but not least, Bouncing fish is an amazing edge guarding move when you know your spacing, if you predict a jump, jump bouncing fish, if they're coming in at an even level to the stage, bouncing fish, need a bit more range? short hop off the ledge and bouncing fish. It's awesome.

My sheik is still pretty weak, but I hope I helped. This is just what I've gathered from playing her.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Sheik's needles are also really good for forcing your opponent to approach you in a manner they might not feel comfortable doing. Some characters really rely on ground movement to get inside and needles have really good range and durability so it forces those characters to get creative or leave themselves vulnerable to being punishes from below.

Her ability to control space is incredible. Bair has excellent range and nair stays out for literally ever and has seemingly decent priority. She has good aerial mobility too so you can short hop nair while retreating to move yourself out of danger and throwing a hitbox out there.

Her off stage game is bonkers. Bouncing fish is great for reasons mentioned above, but nair, bair, and fair are also really good options to push your opponent farther from the stage. you can even follow up from a falling nair with a fair if its hit late enough. Kinda nuts

 

[Jackson]

Sometimes I miss bouncing fish follow ups from Fthrow and Bthrow. I think by getting used to controlling the range I can all but guarantee follow ups.

 

[hsuperill]

Like everyone else said, needles needles needles. I personally love to use it against characters like Little Mac forcing them to completely halt their momentum or force them into the air where you can proceed to punish, especially since his aerial game is weak. At higher %s, the needles have a pretty strong knock back making it easy to knock players back off the from a distance. If you charge it up a bit, you can kill with it in Sudden Death.

Learn to combo your FTilt to short hop FAir. This is a pretty cookie cutter combo for Sheik and works especially well against midweight to heavy characters. You can clear heavy characters off the stage early on by catching them with a few FTilts followed by a chain of SHFF FAirs and then chase them off the stage with even more FAirs. Usually heavier characters or characters with bad recovery won't get enough vertical height to recover back on the stage. Against floatier characters, it's a little harder to do long string combos, but it keeps them in the air longer letting you take advantage of Sheik's aerial game.

Edge guarding with FAir or BAir. The speed of the FAir and the reach of the BAir give Sheik a great edge guarding game. Don't be afraid to chase off the stage with these (especially the FAir). Sheik's recovery is amazing giving you plenty of room to play risky.

I haven't played Smash since the melee days in 2009, so I'm still playing around with her Down B and Foward B. Sheik definitely lost a lot of her killing power in a lot of her moves since then but the Down B is still pretty powerful. Like others have said, make sure you learn to space and time well. Timing isn't too hard but you don't want to land short. I've been experimenting with the Foward B. It's definitely fun to edge guard with. I use it similar to her needles in that I throw it out there to get players to stop in their tracks or try to roll through it opening them up for a grab or Tilt. Only issue is if they're quick enough to run through it, the delay opens you up for a beating.

Hope this helps

 

[Jackson]

Like everyone else said, needles needles needles. I personally love to use it against characters like Little Mac forcing them to completely halt their momentum or force them into the air where you can proceed to punish, especially since his aerial game is weak. At higher %s, the needles have a pretty strong knock back making it easy to knock players back off the from a distance. If you charge it up a bit, you can kill with it in Sudden Death.

Learn to combo your FTilt to short hop FAir. This is a pretty cookie cutter combo for Sheik and works especially well against midweight to heavy characters. You can clear heavy characters off the stage early on by catching them with a few FTilts followed by a chain of SHFF FAirs and then chase them off the stage with even more FAirs. Usually heavier characters or characters with bad recovery won't get enough vertical height to recover back on the stage. Against floatier characters, it's a little harder to do long string combos, but it keeps them in the air longer letting you take advantage of Sheik's aerial game.

Edge guarding with FAir or BAir. The speed of the FAir and the reach of the BAir give Sheik a great edge guarding game. Don't be afraid to chase off the stage with these (especially the FAir). Sheik's recovery is amazing giving you plenty of room to play risky.

I haven't played Smash since the melee days in 2009, so I'm still playing around with her Down B and Foward B. Sheik definitely lost a lot of her killing power in a lot of her moves since then but the Down B is still pretty powerful. Like others have said, make sure you learn to space and time well. Timing isn't too hard but you don't want to land short. I've been experimenting with the Foward B. It's definitely fun to edge guard with. I use it similar to her needles in that I throw it out there to get players to stop in their tracks or try to roll through it opening them up for a grab or Tilt. Only issue is if they're quick enough to run through it, the delay opens you up for a beating.

Hope this helps

Edgeguarding with Side B is good. I found out a nice advanced tech to remove the lag from it, check out my thread titled 'Ledge Nade'.

 

[Overmaster]

Learn to combo your FTilt to short hop FAir. This is a pretty cookie cutter combo for Sheik and works especially well against midweight to heavy characters. You can clear heavy characters off the stage early on by catching them with a few FTilts followed by a chain of SHFF FAirs and then chase them off the stage with even more FAirs. Usually heavier characters or characters with bad recovery won't get enough vertical height to recover back on the stage. Against floatier characters, it's a little harder to do long string combos, but it keeps them in the air longer letting you take advantage of Sheik's aerial game.

I'm kind of in the same position as OP too. While my roster is already mostly speedy characters, I'm kind of in love with the new flavour of independent Sheik. Ninja bombs are extremely up my alley.

Do you have some particular advice on FTilt to short hop Fair? Firstly, I'm having trouble getting the FTilt in a jiffy as opposed to say, dash attack or smash attack. Secondly, I'm having trouble jumping too high-- maybe there isn't a tip for this, but maybe there is. Finally, sometimes it seems like my Ftilt launched them too high to Fair into!

Maybe I'm dumb. :]

 

[Jackson]

Haha, I often Ftilt too many times because I'm too lazy and dont always react to the hitconfirm

 

[GreySmash]

I'm kind of in the same position as OP too. While my roster is already mostly speedy characters, I'm kind of in love with the new flavour of independent Sheik. Ninja bombs are extremely up my alley.

Do you have some particular advice on FTilt to short hop Fair? Firstly, I'm having trouble getting the FTilt in a jiffy as opposed to say, dash attack or smash attack. Secondly, I'm having trouble jumping too high-- maybe there isn't a tip for this, but maybe there is. Finally, sometimes it seems like my Ftilt launched them too high to Fair into!

Maybe I'm dumb. :]

Ftilt is a pretty short range move, but it's very quick and works well when your opponent is approaching you or you are very close together. As for ftilt combos, they only work at low percents while the knockback of the move keeps your opponent within the same hitbox so you can hit them again right away. You basically just move slightly forward if you need to while throwing out ftilts. I wouldn't expect to get more than a few hits this way, especially if your opponent knows what they're doing.

With jumping, you should honestly just go into training and practice short hopping. It may be easier to do with the X/Y buttons rather than the circle pad, just lightly tap them. Getting consistency down with this is very important if you want to be able to do it reliably.

If your opponent is at higher percentages, the vertical knockback from ftilt will be too high to combo them reliably. It's really easy to move away from Sheik's fair range from ftilt after a certain percentage, so this combo only works at lower percentages. At higher percentages, you have to get more creative with juggling enemies. I would watch what kind of habits the people you fight against have when they are trying to get back on stage and go for reads and fake outs. For example, the dthrow to uair combo makes people want to jump/airdodge/counter as soon as dthrow sends them up. If you jump after them and wait a second instead of attacking, you can really punish people based on their habits.

This is great with characters that have counters. Dthrow > bait the counter > Charged usmash works wonders.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I Just dthrow and uair at mid/high % and just delay the uair depending on the %. If they airdodge you still hit em with the last hit. Then they're on notice that you know their trick so they try other things that are will punishble by uair

Uair is really really good. It might be my favorite on stage aerial.

 

[Jackson]

I Just dthrow and uair at mid/high % and just delay the uair depending on the %. If they airdodge you still hit em with the last hit. Then they're on notice that you know their trick so they try other things that are will punishble by uair

Uair is really really good. It might be my favorite on stage aerial.

Uair is definitely amazing, i'd say Sheik's best iteration of Uair ever.

 

[hsuperill]

I'm kind of in the same position as OP too. While my roster is already mostly speedy characters, I'm kind of in love with the new flavour of independent Sheik. Ninja bombs are extremely up my alley.

Do you have some particular advice on FTilt to short hop Fair? Firstly, I'm having trouble getting the FTilt in a jiffy as opposed to say, dash attack or smash attack. Secondly, I'm having trouble jumping too high-- maybe there isn't a tip for this, but maybe there is. Finally, sometimes it seems like my Ftilt launched them too high to Fair into!

Maybe I'm dumb. :]

It's harder to approach and open with but you can catch them when they get within range. Maybe you blocked a dash attack or aerial or they roll behind you. Another way I like to do it is approach with a SHFF neutral air to DTilt to FTIlt.

At higher %s or with floatier characters, it's more of a mindgame and trying to outsmart them. You're not going to be able to combo as well with FTilt, but you'll want to use it to keep them in the air and hit them with a FAir, Bair, or Uair when they fall back in range. Sheik has such an awesome aerial game, you'll have the advantage more often than not. Also, with the speed of FAir, it's not hard to get 2-3 aerial attacks out before you hit the ground. So if you miss your first FAir because they air dodged through it, depending on where they are you might be able to hit them again with a FAir or BAir.

And as others have said, the down throw is good at higher %s and floaty characters since the knockback is pretty weak on it making it another option for aerial combos.

 

[Overmaster]

Do you fast fall the short hop out of fair?

Also, do we approach with short hops or do we dash into a short shop fair?

 

[Wasserwipf]

Do you fast fall the short hop out of fair?

Also, do we approach with short hops or do we dash into a short shop fair?

short hop OUT of fair? Wait what? But with shieks 10 frame landing lagg on fair I'd say fastfall... if you highhop, that might be another question, you should be able to get a second fair out before you touch the ground.
I personally like to land when they still are at low percent and jump again, so I still have my doublejump if they stay good positioned in the air (so that i can Fair all day long...)

I'd say we mix up our approches, but empty shorthops are alwys fun... especially if you grab afterwards and then start chaining, oh well. SH Fair seems punichable, if we hit shield, however, i think fair FF should land fast enough to throw out a grab or jab. Looking for the "best" otions seems really hard, imo.

 

[Overmaster]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but so I'm clear you are sayinf it's worth fastfalling your short hops AFTER a fair? (That is, so there's no confusion, I shorthop and hit the opponent with a fair, then fastfall to the ground.)

 

[Jackson]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but so I'm clear you are sayinf it's worth fastfalling your short hops AFTER a fair? (That is, so there's no confusion, I shorthop and hit the opponent with a fair, then fastfall to the ground.)

Sounds right. When you do an aerial in Smash 4 it will stop you from fast falling if you were already doing it, so you need to input down again. Overall, fast falling is strong because it speeds up our combo game. Often when you fast fall the first fair and land it you can full hop, fair them, and fair them again. It's a great combo.

 

[Overmaster]

Sounds right. When you do an aerial in Smash 4 it will stop you from fast falling if you were already doing it, so you need to input down again. Overall, fast falling is strong because it speeds up our combo game. Often when you fast fall the first fair and land it you can full hop, fair them, and fair them again. It's a great combo.

Right. Then that is my original assumption. So as soon as I get the hang of shorthops, you tell me I need to learn SHFF too! Gaaah!

 

[Wasserwipf]

Right. Then that is my original assumption. So as soon as I get the hang of shorthops, you tell me I need to learn SHFF too! Gaaah!

Actually, SHFFFF, depending on when you hit the opponent (if it goes SH FF Aerial FF) because, as mentioned, Aerials that hit will cancel you FF. However, its not too bad, i got used to it. Maybe learn it by styling, whenever you kill somebody, start spamming AT's (like SHFF) thats how I practiced them all. just get used to it and then work them into your game.

 

[Overmaster]

Actually, SHFFFF, depending on when you hit the opponent (if it goes SH FF Aerial FF) because, as mentioned, Aerials that hit will cancel you FF. However, its not too bad, i got used to it. Maybe learn it by styling, whenever you kill somebody, start spamming AT's (like SHFF) thats how I practiced them all. just get used to it and then work them into your game.

Gurk. Now I'm confused again. Is the first fast fall (Coming out of your short hop) done so that you can hit small characters as fast as possible? Because it seems to me that the second you fast fall you'll practically be on the ground, and even if you get an aerial out after that, you must be getting canceled by landing lag already.

Is it really possible to do all that off a shorthop? Opportunity for both fastfalls?

 

[Jackson]

Gurk. Now I'm confused again. Is the first fast fall (Coming out of your short hop) done so that you can hit small characters as fast as possible? Because it seems to me that the second you fast fall you'll practically be on the ground, and even if you get an aerial out after that, you must be getting canceled by landing lag already.

Is it really possible to do all that off a shorthop? Opportunity for both fastfalls?

Yeah, but you are right about it being tricky. Truth is, you just have to get used to timing.