Lock combos in Smash 3DS (example with Metaknight)

[Ambrose]

So I've been testing stuff out in the Japanese version of the game for the past week. Managed to find some lock combos with certain characters. Here's an example with Metaknight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fllS4Ke2IN8

Like I explain in the video, unlike Brawl, this game only allows you to keep the opponent locked for 3 hits. On the 4th hit, they will break free. Which seems to prevent these kinds of infinites from happening, like they did in Brawl. Personally, I like this lock limit.

What do you guys think?

 

[LancerStaff]

That's pretty interesting. Can you consistently lock characters?

 

[<π]

Earned a sub from me.
I knew this. I was expecting a 4 second clip of you doing it once, but this video was very well constructed and educational. I look forward to more from you.

 

[Indefa]

Earned a sub from me.
I knew this. I was expecting a 4 second clip of you doing it once, but this video was very well constructed and educational. I look forward to more from you.

This exactly. I'll sub as soon as I can get to my computer tomorrow, looking forward to more videos of this style

 

[rocksgo]

Good job on the video. Kept it simple, short, but very instructive. Looking foward to more as well. =)
As for this one, I'm glad Sakurai limited the amount of down tilts you can lock your opponent on. It'll still give you the satisfaction of doing it, without actually breaking the game.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Very informative and well-constructed video. Thank you for posting this.

(inb4"MetaKnightisBrokenz!")

@JamietheAuraUser: You do realize I was joking, right? Either way yes, he's not the only character that can jab lock/I know this.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Very informative and well-constructed video. Thank you for posting this.

(inb4"MetaKnightisBrokenz!")

"Meta Knight is Brokenz"? Hardly. He's not the only character who can make good use of a jab lock or DTilt lock in Smash 4, although with that said he does have a pretty nice setup for it with his FAir. Of the demo characters, the only jab lock user seems to be Mario, but that said it's the demo, there are only 5 characters. Some characters can actually set up KOs with a jab lock/reset.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

Can you imagine if Meta Knight could do this in Brawl? lol

Nice video, I subbed.

 

[Thinkaman]

Mega Man is actually pretty good at this. Dash attack, d-tilt, and nair sets up at 0%, bair at low-mid percents, fair and dair at mid-high %s. They can obviously burn their double jump or air dodge to escape, but these are both exploitable.

What makes it for him, is how good pellets are at jab locking. It only takes one opporunity--he can always be there. He converts this into a free smash or u-tilt.

 

[A2ZOMG]

And meanwhile, I fail to understand why meteors are techable on the ground. Or why they're techable in general with ground bounce mechanics.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

And meanwhile, I fail to understand why meteors are techable on the ground. Or why they're techable in general with ground bounce mechanics.

Well, IIRC you could tech a grounded meteor in Brawl with SDI up + tech, so making it possible with a simplified input seems like one reasonable solution. But the other, even better solution would be to make them completely non-techable on the ground (or possibly even in the air, although maybe it would be unfair to prevent you from DI'ing in and teching a meteor smash off a wall).

 

[Pluid]

That video was extremely well contructed, good on you. I'm subbing for sure.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Very interesting. I have one major takeaway from this though:

Do fastfall aerials have different properties from normal aerials or is this because you have to hit between slashes of MK's Fair? I can't recall if you mentioned in the video.

 

[A Lucky Person]

Nice find! I'm interested in seeing what else you can find.

 

[Smasher89]

Cool, you might want to try it out with pikachu since he shares a similar property with his fair that he can "spike" with it as long as you stop hitting with it early,

 

[obeymalleo]

So I've been testing stuff out in the Japanese version of the game for the past week. Managed to find some lock combos with certain characters. Here's an example with Metaknight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fllS4Ke2IN8

Like I explain in the video, unlike Brawl, this game only allows you to keep the opponent locked for 3 hits. On the 4th hit, they will break free. Which seems to prevent these kinds of infinites from happening, like they did in Brawl. Personally, I like this lock limit.

What do you guys think?

***Mods, I accidentally posted this in general discussion. Can you please close that thread? I meant to post it here.

This is great news, and an amazing video! You've earned a subscription from me.

 

[Ambrose]

Thanks for all the positive feedback!

That's pretty interesting. Can you consistently lock characters?

You can lock them 3 consecutive hits. They will be free if you try to lock them a 4th time. If you want to continue the lock, you must perform a reset, like I showed in the video.

Very interesting. I have one major takeaway from this though:
Do fastfall aerials have different properties from normal aerials or is this because you have to hit between slashes of MK's Fair? I can't recall if you mentioned in the video.

I made a correction in the video. You actually don't have to fast fall the f-air for it to spike. The timing is just different if you don't fast fall. The hitbox that causes the spike in MK's f-air is near the end of the attack. I've tried many times, but only ever gotten the f-air spike to work while MK is on stage though, never in the air/off-stage.

Cool, you might want to try it out with pikachu since he shares a similar property with his fair that he can "spike" with it as long as you stop hitting with it early,

I've tried with Pikachu's f-air. It indeed does knock opponents downwards, but it never actually makes the opponent stumble, thus Pikachu can't start any locks from the f-air. And the knock back is nowhere near that of MK's f-air.

 

[KoiKazma]

Yup! Subbed also, very informative!

 

[Scala]

Is this still possible if they're VIing downwards? I have a hunch it might put their body lower to the ground and stop them from getting spiked like bowser/DDD

 

[LancerStaff]

Thanks for all the positive feedback!


You can lock them 3 consecutive hits. They will be free if you try to lock them a 4th time. If you want to continue the lock, you must perform a reset, like I showed in the video.


I made a correction in the video. You actually don't have to fast fall the f-air for it to spike. The timing is just different if you don't fast fall. The hitbox that causes the spike in MK's f-air is near the end of the attack. I've tried many times, but only ever gotten the f-air spike to work while MK is on stage though, never in the air/off-stage.


I've tried with Pikachu's f-air. It indeed does knock opponents downwards, but it never actually makes the opponent stumble, thus Pikachu can't start any locks from the f-air. And the knock back is nowhere near that of MK's f-air.

I ment to ask if you could start a lock chain with MK's Fair consistently or not.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I ment to ask if you could start a lock chain with MK's Fair consistently or not.

It only works in a certain percent range, and only if your opponent misses the tech.

 

[LancerStaff]

It only works in a certain percent range, and only if your opponent misses the tech.

Within those restrictions...

 

[RanserSSF4]

One major positive about this lock-jab combo Metaknight has is that most of the heavy weights are uneffected by this, although Bowser Jr being one of them is odd. I can see some using heavy weights on Metaknight, depending on which one's are good match-ups for him.

 

[Tristan_win]

Within those restrictions...

You have to keep in mind that it still force a tech so meta knight could easily tech chase which can be fairly rewarding.

 

[Ganreizu]

(inb4"MetaKnightisBrokenz!")

If anything this only makes it more apparent that heavies are extremely good.

 

[RanserSSF4]

If anything this only makes it more apparent that heavies are extremely good.

True, but in the video, the youtuber did confirmed that Bowser Jr is unaffected by this and he's not a heavy weight, but a light weight.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

True, but in the video, the youtuber did confirmed that Bowser Jr is unaffected by this and he's not a heavy weight, but a light weight.

Bowser Jr.'s weight is 115. That is very definitely not "light"; he's the same weight as freakin' Charizard!

 

[RanserSSF4]

Bowser Jr.'s weight is 115. That is very definitely not "light". He's on the high end of mid-weight at the very least.

oh wow O_O I can understand the clown vechicle, but he looks like a light-weight when you look at him the first time.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

oh wow O_O I can understand the clown vechicle, but he looks like a light-weight when you look at him the first time.

Edited my post. 115 is actually way up there on the weight scale. He weighs as much as Charizard!

I wonder if this trick works on Samus, who clocks in at 112 weight.

 

[Ganreizu]

True, but in the video, the youtuber did confirmed that Bowser Jr is unaffected by this and he's not a heavy weight, but a light weight.

...Where did i say anything about bowser jr?

It's a shame it doesn't work, but he's only a kid. He'll grow up to be able to avoid this.

 

[S2]

Good video.

This reminds me of the safeguard in Skullgirls that thwarted infinites by detecting if you were using the same move over and over again in a combo.

I'm all for combos in Smash, but I'm glad there's some guard against these types of infinites. The fact that it sets up for a potential reset and other options is fine. Resets are good for fighting games, they offer a bigger risk/reward and open up more layers of mind games.

 

[Buddy002]

Very well constructed video, you kept it condense but educational. Looking forward to more!

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

...Where did i say anything about bowser jr?

It's a shame it doesn't work, but he's only a kid. He'll grow up to be able to avoid this.

That's what he just said: Bowser Jr. is already immune to this lock. He thought Bowser Jr. was a lightweight, though, which is very definitely not the case.

 

[Ambrose]

True, but in the video, the youtuber did confirmed that Bowser Jr is unaffected by this and he's not a heavy weight, but a light weight.

These are all the characters the combo won't work on (because they never stumble from MK's f-air spike/meteor):
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Donkey Kong
Charizard
King Dedede
Samus
Ganondorf

I suggested it's because of their weight, cause these are the heaviest characters in the game next to Shulk with shield mode on.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I wonder if the ability to set up locks is a common attribute for multi-hit aerials. Mega Man and Greninja are known to be able to send characters directy downwards if they whiff the final hits of their multi-hit aerials [bair and uair respectively]. If that's the case then there's a number of characters that are potentially able to pull this off, at least in theory: Mega Man, Greninja, Pikachu and Meta Knight have been named as characters that are able pull this off. Falco [fair], G&W [bair], Peach [dair], the Pits [not sure], Samus [uair], Sheik [uair], Sonic [fair], Wario [dair] and Yoshi [bair] could all be able to do this as well though it seems like an auto-cancel might be necessary.

You have to keep in mind that it still force a tech so meta knight could easily tech chase which can be fairly rewarding.

Pun intended?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

So I've been testing stuff out in the Japanese version of the game for the past week. Managed to find some lock combos with certain characters. Here's an example with Metaknight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fllS4Ke2IN8

Like I explain in the video, unlike Brawl, this game only allows you to keep the opponent locked for 3 hits. On the 4th hit, they will break free. Which seems to prevent these kinds of infinites from happening, like they did in Brawl. Personally, I like this lock limit.

What do you guys think?

Wow, insta sub very informative an in depth, can't wait to see more!

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Metaknight is gonna need all the help he can get, I'm going to vaporize and annihilate him in this game.

On a more on topic note, thanks for the info and vid. Didn't know lock combos are forced to end.

 

[Buddy002]

Metaknight is gonna need all the help he can get, I'm going to vaporize and annihilate him in this game.

On a more on topic note, thanks for the info and vid. Didn't know lock combos are forced to end.

Agreed, MK was very annoying in Brawl. He is looking to still be a threat in this game. Which I am fine with, as long as he isn't OP...

 

[Ambrose]

If that's the case then there's a number of characters that are potentially able to pull this off, at least in theory: Mega Man, Greninja, Pikachu and Meta Knight have been named as characters that are able pull this off. Falco [fair], G&W [bair], Peach [dair], the Pits [not sure], Samus [uair], Sheik [uair], Sonic [fair], Wario [dair] and Yoshi [bair] could all be able to do this as well though it seems like an auto-cancel might be necessary.

I just tried it with all the characters you mentioned. Unfortunately, none of their spike/meteors has enough knock back to make the opponent stumble, EXCEPT for Yoshi's b-air. However, none of Yoshi's moves can initiate a lock combo.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's good to know. I guess there's a number of requirements that need to be fulfilled in order to be able to pull this off. You need a multi-hit aerial, it needs a certain amount of knockback, the aerial has to auto-cancel and you also need the right move on the ground to initiate the lock combo. Since it doesn't seem like many characters can do it, it probably won't play an important role in the metagame. Definitely a good find for MK though.