List of moves that are safe on shield

[ItsRainingGravy]

Before I begin, I would like to mention what character this was tested with and why. This information was gathered by having the opponent as Mega Man. Here's why:

http://smashboards.com/threads/list...-initial-frame-to-slowest-frame-speed.388564/

- Has the fastest grab and dash grab possible, frame 6-7 and frame 8-9 respectively.
- Along with Rosalina, he also has the longest grab reach in comparison to the other fastest grabbers.
- This applies both to his standing grab and his dash grab.
- He was chosen over Rosalina due to having a more average hurtbox size, and therefore shield size.

With that out of the way, here is a list of attacks that I have found to be completely (or almost completely) safe on shield. Note that I have not tested special attacks for any of the characters.


Mario
Bair (far)
Nair (retreating)
Fsmash (far)

Dr. Mario
Nair (retreating)
Bair (far, safer than Mario's)
- Loses Fsmash as a potential option in comparison to Mario...kind of. Still has good knockback but loses range.

Luigi
Bair (far)
Nair (retreating)
Fsmash (good shield damage and pretty safe iirc)

Peach
Fsmash (far, frying pan being the most effective)
Aerials (due to floating)

Bowser
Dtilt: A small word about his Dtilt. It's safe on shield that it limits the opponent's options severely and does a ton of shield damage. It prevents them from jumping OoS, grabbing, or dropping shield. However, it has one vulnerability in that opponents are able to roll away after blocking the first hit, and Bowser is pretty punishable after that. But if they don't expect it, Dtilt is pretty good. Just be careful.

Yoshi
Aerials (due to aerial mobility, though this only applies to retreating and not approaching)
Fsmash (far)

Rosalina
Nothing reliable, unless I am missing something in regards to Luma.

Bowser Jr.
Nothing completely reliable.

Wario
Dtilt (far)
Ftilt (far)
Fsmash (far)
Aerials (due to aerial mobility, mostly for retreating though Dair can approach and cross the opponent up)

DK
Dtilt (far)
Fsmash
Ftilt (far)
Dair (retreating)

Diddy
Aerials (Far Fair and Bair, retreating Dair, etc)

G&W
Usmash
Fsmash (far)
Bair (far)
Fair (retreating? can't remember lol)

Little Mac
KO Punch (unblockable, and lol)

Link
Zair (far)
Bair (retreating)
Fair (far)
Jab 1 (far)
Jab 2 (far)
Dtilt (far)
Ftilt (far)

Toon Link
Zair (far)
Jab 1 (far)
Dtilt (far)
- Loses Jab 2/Ftilt/Bair/Fair in comparison to Link.

Zelda
Fair (sweetspot)
Bair (sweetspot)
Dair (retreating)

Sheik
Ftilt (far...mostly)
Fair
Bair (far)
Nair (far)

Ganondorf
Usmash
Fsmash (far)
Fair (far)
Bair (far)
Utilt (...lol)

Samus
Zair (far)
Ftilt (far)
Utilt (far)
Bair (far)

ZSS
Ftilt (far)
Bair (far)
Zair (far, but it is hard to consistently time and space)

Pit
Ftilt (far, for the sweetspot)
Dair (retreating)
Nair (retreating, and mixup potential for crossups)

Dark Pit
Dair (retreating)
Nair (retreating, and mixup potential for crossups)
- Loses Ftilt as a potential option in comparison to Pit.

Palutena
Fair

Marth
Jab (tipper)
Ftilt (tipper)
Dtilt (tipper)
Fsmash (tipper)
Nair (tipper)

Lucina
Jab (far)
Dtilt (far)
Nair (better than Marth's up close)
- Loses Ftilt and Fsmash as potential options in comparison to Marth, due to lacking tippers.

Ike
Ftilt (far)
Fsmash
Usmash (back hitbox)
Dsmash (back hitbox)
Dair (retreating)
Bair (far)

Robin
Dsmash (Levin Sword only due to the ground sparks)

Duck Hunt
Ftilt (far)
Fair (far)
Dair (retreating)

Kirby
Ftilt (far)
Dtilt (far)
Utilt (far, only for the back hitbox)
Aerials (far, and only for retreating usually)

King DeDeDe
Bair (far)

Meta Knight
Dair (retreating)
Fsmash

Fox
Bair (far)
Nair (retreating)

Falco
Dtilt (far)
Bair (far)

Pikachu
Jab (for the most part)
Dtilt (far)
Nair (retreating)
Bair (...retreating? Can't remember why I put this here lol)

Charizard
Sadly no, not really.

Lucario
Bair
Smashes (max aura)

Jigglypuff
Ftilt (far)
Dtilt
Aerials (due to aerial mobility, usually for retreating but Dair can approach and cross the opponent up)

Greninja
Dtilt (...far? But could be completely safe.)
Fair (far)

ROB
Dtilt (far)
Ftilt (far)
Aerials (usually not practical besides Fair, others are due to range)

Ness
Dtilt (mostly lol)
Fsmash (far)
Nair (retreating)
Bair (far)

Captain Falcon
Ftilt (far)
Dsmash (back hitbox)
Dair (retreating?)
Bair (far)
Uair

Villager
Jab
Fsmash
Aerials (usually for retreating)

Olimar
*These work best with Purple/Red, decent with Yellow/Blue, and don't work with White Pikmin*
Bair (retreating)
Dair (retreating...White works here I guess)
Fsmash (completely safe even up close!)
Fsmash (far...only for White lol)
Dsmash (causes WEIRD things to happen but is mostly safe, even up close)

Wii Fit Trainer
Nope. Nothing here~

Shulk
*Buster increases shield stun, Jump is neutral, Speed is slightly less, and Shield/Smash remove your options*
Dtilt (far)
Bair (far)
Fair (Speed Monado, retreating)
Nair (Speed Monado, retreating and has crossup potential. Reverse hitbox is also effective)
Ftilt (Buster Monado only)

Pac-Man
Nair (retreating)
Fair (really safe!)
Dair (retreating?)

Mega Man (lol)
Jab
Ftilt
Nair
Fsmash (far)
Uair (great for dragging people out of their shields!)

Sonic
Dtilt (far)
Fsmash (far)
Nair (not completely safe when used for approaching but sometimes works due to his silly mobility specs alone)


Haven't done Miis yet. Might get to that eventually. Anyways though, you can discuss the moves on this list, or other potential moves that I might've missed~

 

[PKBeam]

OK. I can see you put a lot of effort into this, but:

• What if your opponent isn't Mega Man?
• What if they have a really good OoS option like Marth or Bowser?
• What if they have a ranged grab?

Also.
Having large shield damage or being a mixup option doesn't make an attack safe on shield.
The idea is, if it hits a shield and your opponent can't punish you for it under any normal circumstances, it's safe on shield.
And why does Link only have Zair as safe?

 

[Locke 06]

as a Mega Man player... you're missing a lot of moves that are free shield pressure on Mega. Also, I'm confused why dash grab is important at all.

Sheik having only 3 moves listed as safe on shield is funny.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Is this meant to be safe on shield or on power shield? Also what options were you trying OoS? It's just that I'm confused about Link only having Zair.

 

[Epok]

I would like to argue that Link's fair and bair. (retreating) is safe on sheild due to the low landing lag making it easy to land a jab or roll afterwards.

 

[Tristan_win]

as a Mega Man player... you're missing a lot of moves that are free shield pressure on Mega. Also, I'm confused why dash grab is important at all.

Sheik having only 3 moves listed as safe on shield is funny.

Fair
Ftilt (tipper)
Bair (tipper)

I would argue that Nair isn't safe of shield.

All her smashes can be punished
Dtilt/utilt isn't safe
jab isn't any safer then any other
uair/dair isn't safe.
Her dash attack is super unsafe
...So yeah 3 moves if your not counting specials

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

As for Falco, if rear hitbox is safe shield pressure then you can easily just pivot up smash to exploit that.

 

[Locke 06]

Fair
Ftilt (tipper)
Bair (tipper)

I would argue that Nair isn't safe of shield.

All her smashes can be punished
Dtilt/utilt isn't safe
jab isn't any safer then any other
uair/dair isn't safe.
Her dash attack is super unsafe
...So yeah 3 moves if your not counting specials

I was mainly thinking of the omissions of dtilt and ftilt. Adding those to the previous list, I expected 5 moves.

I can see the argument that Nair is unsafe (and I'd probably agree with you now that I think more closely). However, I'm surprised tipper dtilt isn't safe on block. Especially when the criteria being used, if I understand how the OP generated this list, is a shield grab from Mega Man. At the same time, I'll take your word for it.

In any case, it's hard for me to take this list seriously. A clearer transparency for the OP's methods is needed and a firm criteria should be laid out. If Mega Man's dtilt/dash attack are listed as "safe," then there's a problem here.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Link Fair is definitely safe on Shield.

Lucario depends on Aura a lot for safety just like in Brawl. I wouldn't be surprised if some of his moves were a +6 on shield just like in Brawl at max aura.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Wario's fsmash is safe on shield from afar?

I dunno, man. Maybe I'll try it out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Also Lucina's nair is definitely safe on bock.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike's retreating Fair should be safe. Autocanceling with large range and all.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

OK. I can see you put a lot of effort into this, but:

• What if your opponent isn't Mega Man?
• What if they have a really good OoS option like Marth or Bowser?
• What if they have a ranged grab?

Also.
Having large shield damage or being a mixup option doesn't make an attack safe on shield.
The idea is, if it hits a shield and your opponent can't punish you for it under any normal circumstances, it's safe on shield.
And why does Link only have Zair as safe?

Mega Man was used because while his grab his amazing, his speed is kind of slow. The large grab made it pretty consistent in regards to what Mega Man was able to grab, but his speed made the large grab size balanced out a bit. Basically, it was a good medium to use in representing the fastest available option most characters have access to, on average. Meaning that I purposely excluded characters with a specific OoS Option (also because jumping OoS is actually slower than grabbing OoS I believe), as well as excluding characters with ranged grabs.

Essentially, the results will vary between characters, but the moves in the list are overall the safest possible moves I found on shield. I can, however, imagine that Diddy/Sheik might be able to punish more stuff due to their access to a faster dashing speed, but I'll leave character differences for other people to determine. And if something has enough proof, I'll add/remove a move from the list.

Such as me removing the moves that dealt high shield damage and being a potential mixup option, due to your explanation. I added things that I would consider to be safe on shield, since I see being able to deal immense shield damage as a way to limit an opponent's options, though I have changed the OP to match the more competitive opinion of the term. My apologies.

as a Mega Man player... you're missing a lot of moves that are free shield pressure on Mega. Also, I'm confused why dash grab is important at all.

Sheik having only 3 moves listed as safe on shield is funny.

Such as? And it's pretty important against spacing tools/pokes used from afar. An example being Marth's Ftilt or DK's Ftilt, though both of those are safe.

As for Sheik only having four moves (Ftilt ended up being pretty safe), it surprised me too honestly. I could've sworn that Dtilt would've been safe at least, though my brother was able to consistently grab me after I shielded the attacks even from the tip of the move. I can say with certainty that her Fair and Bair in particular are incredibly safe however. Nair is also good but not as good as the other two things, and I can see it potentially being beat out by certain characters.

Retested Ftilt and added it to the OP however.

Is this meant to be safe on shield or on power shield? Also what options were you trying OoS? It's just that I'm confused about Link only having Zair.

Normal shield. I doubt there will be much of anything that would be safe on power shield based upon my tests, besides uncommon moves such as Zairs.

Also, uh...

I would like to argue that Link's fair and bair. (retreating) is safe on sheild due to the low landing lag making it easy to land a jab or roll afterwards.

...whoops, accidentally haven't finished Link and Toon Link, lol. Added the rest of their moves in the OP.

Fair
Ftilt (tipper)
Bair (tipper)

I would argue that Nair isn't safe of shield.

All her smashes can be punished
Dtilt/utilt isn't safe
jab isn't any safer then any other
uair/dair isn't safe.
Her dash attack is super unsafe
...So yeah 3 moves if your not counting specials

Pretty much this. And I'd say Ftilt far is roughly about as effective as Nair. Bair far and Fair are really good though.

As for Falco, if rear hitbox is safe shield pressure then you can easily just pivot up smash to exploit that.

It popped opponents out occasionally but the hitbox was really small anyways, so I removed it from the OP.

Especially when the criteria being used, if I understand how the OP generated this list, is a shield grab from Mega Man. At the same time, I'll take your word for it.

In any case, it's hard for me to take this list seriously. A clearer transparency for the OP's methods is needed and a firm criteria should be laid out. If Mega Man's dtilt/dash attack are listed as "safe," then there's a problem here.

Shield grab from Mega Man, yes.

Fixed the OP since the first poster also mentioned the same thing. The only moves listed in the OP now are the ones that can effectively poke a shield and not be punished afterwards.

And as mentioned before, character differences could exist. Such as Little Mac OoS Up B (which has frame 1 invincibility) among other things. Though the moves in the OP are meant to be taken as an "on average" list against most of the cast.

Link Fair is definitely safe on Shield.

Lucario depends on Aura a lot for safety just like in Brawl. I wouldn't be surprised if some of his moves were a +6 on shield just like in Brawl at max aura.

Yup. Fair is safe.

And yeah, the same applies to here as well. None of his tilts were safe though, and the only moves that became safe on shield with max aura were his Smashes.

Bair is a monster with Max Aura. It can nearly break a full shield at that point and is completely safe.

Wario's fsmash is safe on shield from afar?

I dunno, man. Maybe I'll try it out.

Yeah I might need to test that again too since it does have a high amount of endlag. It was safe against Mega's dashgrab though maybe his pellets could get him. And maybe Sheik/Diddy could get him as well.

Also Lucina's nair is definitely safe on bock.

Ah okay, thank you.

Ike's retreating Fair should be safe. Autocanceling with large range and all.

Idk, it seemed pretty punishable to me even when it was autocanceled, though I could be wrong. Thankfully he has a lot of other tools that are safe on sheild, even if Fair isn't one of them.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Rosalina can input an attack just before she hits the ground and autocancel without any hitboxes coming out. Luma, meanwhile, still does its own version of the aerial. Since Rosalina is free to move once she lands I'd call that safe on shield. The timing depends on the aerial though; she has to be frame perfect to do this with uair, but fair gives her something like an 8 frame window of leniency to use it before landing.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Are Marth and Lucina's Nairs really safe on shield but not Fair? How bizarre. Looks like I need to keep working Nair into my game more.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

My experience with Rosalina is that absolutely fully spaced ftilt is generally safe on block, but your spacing doesn't have to be off by that much to be unsafe. If Luma is in the right position, jab is definitely safe (go into rapid jab while the opponent is sandwiched between Rosalina and Luma, and Luma's rapid jab will drag them very far away from Rosalina and do extreme shield damage), but it all depends on where Luma is. I also think Marth Dolphin Slash OoS is a faster punish than Mega Man grab if you wanted to toy with that. If you need the range, again, Marth Crescent Slash is going to be the fastest distant punish possible, will severely outspeed running grabs (something like Sonic dash attack probably outspeeds Mega Man running grab as a punish as well if you want something more basic).

I'd also like to point out that Yoshi dair is a fairly special case in that, if you hit a shield clean with it, it will almost always shield stab eventually as it just hits over and over. I think if you use Yoshi's air control correctly it might be possible to actually force it versus a full shield (except obviously against another Yoshi!), but you'd have to ask the Yoshi mains how that plays out.

If you want to account for the fine details, I wish you luck. Being safe vs unsafe on block is pretty complicated in this game.

 

[AvariceX]

No way in hell is Ness' fsmash safe on shield, speaking from experience I've been dash grabbed by Sheik before I could act every time I've tried it.

 

[Jigglymaster]

You should defiantly consider testing things out with the Miis, they're just as much real characters as the rest of the cast.

 

[Pazzo.]

Great chart!

I'll have to bookmark this page for future reference.

 

[Tristan_win]

@ ItsRainingGravy

Ftilt has almost identical range to Bair meanwhile nair has only slightly better range then Sheik jab.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Link is looking better. I know from past experience that Link's Nair is safe on shield when used so that the hitbox comes out just before he lands. The shield push-back makes it so MM is out of range of his Grab. I'll have to go over Link's other moves later to see what else is missing.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I have a hard time believing Ike's d-tilt isn't safe.

 

[ZHMT]

Puffs jab2 is safe on block at range, its very disjointed. Jab 1 whiff into jab 2 hits frame 13. Also up tilt is -11 on shield, it could be safe if spaced properly. I'm surprised you have her dtilt in the list, its her least safe tilt.

 

[David Viran]

I'm pretty sure zss's nair is safe on sheild too. Maybe her uair too but I'm not completely sure. Oh I know for a fact that dsmash is safe on sheild.

 

[Lavani]

Surprised that Greninja's dtilt is safe but not Meta Knight's.

 

[Signia]

Sorry, I stopped trusting unestablished people on smashboards long, long ago.

But, if some of things are actually true, this makes ground spacing more worth it than I thought. I guess I expected Little Mac's ground attacks to be safe if any ground attack is safe.

 

[Ffamran]

Sorry, I stopped trusting unestablished people on smashboards long, long ago.

But, if some of things are actually true, this makes ground spacing more worth it than I thought. I guess I expected Little Mac's ground attacks to be safe if any ground attack is safe.

Hey, someone has to start somewhere, so building, learning, and creating useful data for people is good in my book.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

As shown in the "Frame Cancel" thread, Falco's Dair is safe when the hitbox hits the ground on the same frame it comes out. It can then be chained into down tilt without repercussion (which should net enough shield push to make it safe).

 

[Signia]

As shown in the "Frame Cancel" thread, Falco's Dair is safe when the hitbox hits the ground on the same frame it comes out. It can then be chained into down tilt without repercussion (which should net enough shield push to make it safe).

What do you mean, should? TEST IT, lol

 

[LiL.Will]

This is really great glad someone finally did this. Keep it up im going to test these all out with friends to find out who can punish and who can't. Again really nice work!!!

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Rosalina can input an attack just before she hits the ground and autocancel without any hitboxes coming out. Luma, meanwhile, still does its own version of the aerial. Since Rosalina is free to move once she lands I'd call that safe on shield. The timing depends on the aerial though; she has to be frame perfect to do this with uair, but fair gives her something like an 8 frame window of leniency to use it before landing.

Ah that's right. I forgot about this. Rosalina is one of the characters I have the least experience with.

Can anyone who mains Rosalina confirm what aerials of hers would most likely be safe on block?

Are Marth and Lucina's Nairs really safe on shield but not Fair? How bizarre. Looks like I need to keep working Nair into my game more.

Yeah. Lucina nair is really safe, and tipper Marth Nair is safe, but I doubt that fair is safe due to landing lag. It's strange but I am pretty sure of it.

My experience with Rosalina is that absolutely fully spaced ftilt is generally safe on block, but your spacing doesn't have to be off by that much to be unsafe. If Luma is in the right position, jab is definitely safe (go into rapid jab while the opponent is sandwiched between Rosalina and Luma, and Luma's rapid jab will drag them very far away from Rosalina and do extreme shield damage), but it all depends on where Luma is. I also think Marth Dolphin Slash OoS is a faster punish than Mega Man grab if you wanted to toy with that. If you need the range, again, Marth Crescent Slash is going to be the fastest distant punish possible, will severely outspeed running grabs (something like Sonic dash attack probably outspeeds Mega Man running grab as a punish as well if you want something more basic).

I'd also like to point out that Yoshi dair is a fairly special case in that, if you hit a shield clean with it, it will almost always shield stab eventually as it just hits over and over. I think if you use Yoshi's air control correctly it might be possible to actually force it versus a full shield (except obviously against another Yoshi!), but you'd have to ask the Yoshi mains how that plays out.

If you want to account for the fine details, I wish you luck. Being safe vs unsafe on block is pretty complicated in this game.

Interesting notes about Rosalina. I might try those when (and if) I get the chance, though that might be unlikely due to my brother being uncooperative with further testing since he got bored of it lol

I purposefully tried to avoid OoS Options since I kind of wanted this to be a general list that would apply to most characters on the roster, though Crescent Slash does sound like something I would like to try. Thanks for the suggestion!

In regards to faster dashgrabs, that is also something I wanted to try to avoid as well, though in retrospect I should've tested with Sheik/Diddy/Sonic considering their top tier status. In regards for standing grab though, I felt as though Mega was the best choice due to the sheer range his grab is able to snatch people up.

Either way, I feel as though the above list is mostly accurate though would probably have some exceptions (character specific dash speeds and OoS Options). If I could ever get my brother to help cooperate again, I would test it, though he's pretty stubborn so I am not holding my breath. I can, however, iron out things in the list with input from the posters in this topic, since trying to remember the safeness on shield for 48+ characters is pretty troublesome at times...hence why I made this list lol

No way in hell is Ness' fsmash safe on shield, speaking from experience I've been dash grabbed by Sheik before I could act every time I've tried it.

Sounds like a character-specific unsafeness. It was safe against Mega's grab. I assume characters like Sheik/Diddy/Sonic would be able to catch Ness after it, and other characters with slower dash speeds/OoS Options/slower grabs won't be able to. If you can experiment with it more, let me know, and I might update the OP.

You should defiantly consider testing things out with the Miis, they're just as much real characters as the rest of the cast.

I definitely considered it, though at the time, my brother rejected the idea because he got tired of testing. It's not that I don't want to, but rather, nobody I know shares the same passion I do for fighting games/Smash :/ If I am able to get him to cooperate again, this is the first thing I am going to do.

@ ItsRainingGravy

Ftilt has almost identical range to Bair meanwhile nair has only slightly better range then Sheik jab.

Hmm I'll have to test it again when I get the chance, though I'll trust your word on it for now.

Link is looking better. I know from past experience that Link's Nair is safe on shield when used so that the hitbox comes out just before he lands. The shield push-back makes it so MM is out of range of his Grab. I'll have to go over Link's other moves later to see what else is missing.

When I retested Link's Nair, it seemed unsafe, though I do admit to not trying it just before hitting the ground and using the hitstun. So I would say I believe you.

I have a hard time believing Ike's d-tilt isn't safe.

It is very unsafe up close, though it could possibly be safe with the tip of it. If my memory serves me correct though, Mega was able to dashgrab him after the Dtilt. I'll add it to the list of things for me to test again when I get a chance.

Puffs jab2 is safe on block at range, its very disjointed. Jab 1 whiff into jab 2 hits frame 13. Also up tilt is -11 on shield, it could be safe if spaced properly. I'm surprised you have her dtilt in the list, its her least safe tilt.

Funny enough, I thought the exact opposite when testing her. Utilt felt very unsafe in particular. As for Jab 2, I'll try it out whenever I am able to.

I'm pretty sure zss's nair is safe on sheild too. Maybe her uair too but I'm not completely sure. Oh I know for a fact that dsmash is safe on sheild.

Random, but I am still surprised that ZSS has the slowest Dsmash in the game starting at frame...20? So I would hope it is safe on shield But yeah, I'll keep this in mind too.

Surprised that Greninja's dtilt is safe but not Meta Knight's.

I would assume it is a difference in the amount of hitstun the attacks cause. Usually a lot of Meta's attacks don't cause a lot of hitstun, even if they come out pretty fast. So that might be why.

Now if Meta's sword range actually matched the sword model, this might be a different story... *sigh*

Sorry, I stopped trusting unestablished people on smashboards long, long ago.

But, if some of things are actually true, this makes ground spacing more worth it than I thought. I guess I expected Little Mac's ground attacks to be safe if any ground attack is safe.

Yeah, I will not deny that I am rather unexperienced when it comes to competitive play, especially considering that I don't really have the opportunity to do something like that even though I want to. So I'm more than willing to admit that, if I am wrong about something, I am wrong about something.

However, I will say that I can claim at least 80% of the above list is correct. And maybe about 20% of the moves above possibly being incorrect against characters with a faster dash speed/character specific option. Though this is just my personal estimate, and I could be wrong about that as well. Either way though, I tried to be as truthful as possible when making this list. And I am willing to work with others to find out what is true, and what isn't.

Hey, someone has to start somewhere, so building, learning, and creating useful data for people is good in my book.

As someone who wishes to be competitive but currently can't, this is the next best thing I could do. But yeah, thank you.

As shown in the "Frame Cancel" thread, Falco's Dair is safe when the hitbox hits the ground on the same frame it comes out. It can then be chained into down tilt without repercussion (which should net enough shield push to make it safe).

Good point. I would assume this could apply to other Dairs with this property as well. Thanks for reminding me!

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Yeah. Lucina nair is really safe, and tipper Marth Nair is safe, but I doubt that fair is safe due to landing lag. It's strange but I am pretty sure of it.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of rising Fair because yes, the landing lag is yucky. Thank you for the info!

 

[RanserSSF4]

question: how come no Dtilt for captain falcon?

i find it safe on shield from far distance!

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of rising Fair because yes, the landing lag is yucky. Thank you for the info!

Actually yeah that might be safe against a taller opponent, though I might not rely on it against shorter fighters. And you are welcome!

Also, I'd like to say sorry to everyone since my info is a bit messy. I'll do what I can to make things look cleaner in the future.

question: how come no Dtilt for captain falcon?

i find it safe on shield from far distance!

Dtilt, I actually remember Mega Man being able to grab at a range. It's not too safe of a move in my opinion, and comes out on frame 11. Where-as Ftilt comes out on frame 9, and felt safer to me on shield at a far distance. So unless I am crouching to reduce my hitbox for whatever reason, or using Dtilt for its stronger knockback (only when I expect it to hit), I would say Ftilt might be the better shield poking option overall. It has further range, less endlag, and keeps C.Falcon at a comfortable distance where he could dashgrab somebody if they try to roll away. But far enough where he'll be safer if they try to roll behind him.

 

[RanserSSF4]

Actually yeah that might be safe against a taller opponent, though I might not rely on it against shorter fighters. And you are welcome!

Also, I'd like to say sorry to everyone since my info is a bit messy. I'll do what I can to make things look cleaner in the future.

Dtilt, I actually remember Mega Man being able to grab at a range. It's not too safe of a move in my opinion, and comes out on frame 11. Where-as Ftilt comes out on frame 9, and felt safer to me on shield at a far distance. So unless I am crouching to reduce my hitbox for whatever reason, or using Dtilt for its stronger knockback (only when I expect it to hit), I would say Ftilt might be the better shield poking option overall. It has further range, less endlag, and keeps C.Falcon at a comfortable distance where he could dashgrab somebody if they try to roll away. But far enough where he'll be safer if they try to roll behind him.

it seems safe IMO from far away, but fair enough and i would agree, it's slightly slower and slightly laggier than ftilt, though dtilt is a great PP move and spacing option

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Ah that's right. I forgot about this. Rosalina is one of the characters I have the least experience with.

Can anyone who mains Rosalina confirm what aerials of hers would most likely be safe on block?

The thing I described (called "Lunar Landing" by some people), if done properly, makes it so that Rosalina lands before the game sets the flag to activate the landing lag state, so if she's fast enough she can literally be moving around while Luma is still attacking. I'd call that safe. The problem is that depending on the aerial, the input window is very tight. Uair needs to be done literally the frame before she lands, while fair has a 7-frame window before landing where it will work.

As far as Rosalina's own aerials, I'm not sure she has anything that's safe on block. Maybe a max range bair or nair? But Luma lets her be very tricky with this.

Also, trivially, if you send Luma out and have it attack an opponent's shield, Rosalina herself remains safe for obvious reasons. But I don't think that's what you had in mind.

 

[Roukiske]

I like the initiative of this, but I think it's pretty hard to say what is really safe on block in this iteration of Smash. It really depends on where you are relative to the floor when you hit your opponent's shield (I assume we are talking about last possible moments to hit the shield).

I take this list more as a "safe from shield grab list", which is also still extremely useful (though IMO grabs aren't great in this game unless you have Diddy-esque throw combos which includes an extremely small portion of the cast). I personally drop my shield and go for ground moves (jab / f-tilt) more often than shield grabs.

Side note: As I am pretty sure every time a f-smashes me I can drop my shield and dash grab before his recovery, but I know you were testing with who probably isn't fast enough.

 

[Strider_123]

forgive me but what does safe on shield mean? does it mean for example- attack in the air and land and use shield without lag? or does it mean block someone's attack then counter with that move and its safe?

 

[ARKills]

forgive me but what does safe on shield mean? does it mean for example- attack in the air and land and use shield without lag? or does it mean block someone's attack then counter with that move and its safe?

It means that you won't get punished for hitting your opponents shield with the move.

 

[vegeta18]

for rosalina and luma, a reverse aerial rush back air will extend luma`s hitbox and is safe on shield