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Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

Zelkam

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Man... I need to stay on top of things. Gonna go through the pages and fix up the OP. If you guys think there were some pretty important posts in the past week or so, feel free to sum it all up (Less work for me :p)
If I can go through the entire link boards and round up all of the questions and important threads then surely you can go though one thread and pick out the important stuff...
 

Rizen

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TBH I haven't had much time to play. I'm still going through playing all the characters as CPUs once. Jab and Utilt are good all around options. Pivot Ftilt seems to be a good way to use Ftilt safely and beat aerial approaches.
 

Knife8193

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Pivot f-tilts get so many people off guard, not to mention punishes rolls safely. Which is especially important since rolls are so hard to punish in this game.
 

Ieven

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I tried bombsliding, and i tested several things, and i wonder if these setup would work :

The first bombsliding, when Link throw the bomb in front of him, i wonder if Bombslide > Dtilt spike , Bombslide > Upsmash or even Bombslide > Footstool would be a viable setup.

Now that Link doesn't receive damage when the opponent get hit, in any case, it seems that is a good approach.
 

BrimeZ

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Earlier in this thread I brought up the AT that link can do ftilts, smashes and aerials while holding a bomb. I find this to be a very good technique not many players know about. It allows link to apply more shield pressure as well as deceptive play


And thanks @Sabaca for the info, I figured it out shortly after I asked. We as Link mains should come up with an awesome name for this technique as well as practice potential set ups with it.
 

Zelkam

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I apologize in advance if this is common knowledge to most of you, but I just learned this yesterday and I think it could be very important to Link's metagame.

Link's bombs in Smash 4 are not affected by stale move negation.

I did a little testing this morning with bombs and Zair, because Zair didn't have SMN in brawl and I wasn't sure if that carried over. Here's what I found:
Zair is now affected by SMN like any other move. The lowest % I got with both hits was 3% (1%-2%). Consequently, it can now be used to unstale other moves, unlike it brawl.
Bombs are quite unique because they do not stale, but they still unstale other moves. A direct hit from a bomb will always do 5% no matter how many consecutive hits you make. Likewise, using several bombs will cause a previously stale move to become fresh.

Just when I think bomb can't get any better I learn something new about them that make me love them even more.
 
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Rizen

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Good read about how shields are different in SSB4 than Brawl:
http://smashboards.com/threads/shields-in-smash-4.381183/

New frame info shows the spike window for Link's Dair:
http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8
Dair
Frame 14-17 (spike): 15% 30b/80g (1520g*) 270° Pierce
Frame 18-64: 18% 30b/80g (1760g*) 65° Pierce
Max Damage: 18%
Enables transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 10
Cancels transition to Dair landing state (landing lag) on real frame 65
 
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Zelkam

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This isn't anything really new, but I figured I'd post it anyway. If you're standing in the dip on kongo jungle 64 and do a soft bomb throw (just pressing A or using the C-stick if you have it set to attack) it'll hit the slope and won't explode. I assume you could probably do this with any stage that has a slope. I might see if I can find all the stages this works on after I'm done fiddling with what I was working on when I found this.

Edit: Also, it turns out that if villager pockets a bomb and uses a soft throw the bomb won't explode on the stage because of how short he is.
 
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D

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Recently I've been toying around with a little thing I noticed back in Brawl:

Jump off-stage and then bank the boomerang off the ledge so that it will fly behind Link and then off-screen.

Right now I've just been trying to master the timing so that it rebounds at the angles I want.

Although it's (obviously) situational I feel like the windbox would be something useful for interrupting recovery attempts from the opponent if they're at ledge height or lower.

In practicing it this morning I was able to get the boomerang to rebound and travel off-screen:

A) Perfectly Horizontally
B) Diagonally Downwards (~20-30 degree angle from horizontal)
C) Diagonally Upwards (~20 degree angle above horizontal)

Those angle measurements are just eyeball approximations of course, but the angle is notable.

You can also bank it down below or up above the stage at angles of ~80-90 degrees for upwards rebound direction and ~80-100 degrees for downwards rebound direction (in this case, angles >90 (obviously) cause the boomerang to continue forward slightly in the direction thrown).

For the steeper rebound angles the boomerang does return though, the steep upwards I don't think is useful at all, while the steep downwards might be useful if you wanted to pull the opponent back up for an aerial or something.

Of course the thicker the ledge the easier it is to do this, I found:

  • Battlefield's ledge was quite unforgiving, quite hard to bank the boomerang horizontally without it sliding under the stage.
  • Fairly consistent results on FD, Town and City, and Smashville ("consistent" meaning I was able to bank the boomerang as I desired fairly frequently)
  • Consistency on Omega stages varies depending on the FD design, those with walls (all the way down to the lower blast zone) are obviously easy because you can just throw it anywhere at the wall for it to rebound.
  • I found Omega Isle Delfino to be pretty nice for banking the boomerang at desired angles, it's ledge is pretty thick. I have yet to try it on vanilla Isle Delfino although I doubt it will be practical to attempt given the thinness of the base platform/ledge.
So yeah just a thing, let me know what you think~
 

Zelkam

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We all know that Link's bombs are amazing and that they're even better than before in smash 4. One of the improvements is that they are much more durable and seem to have more priority vs other projectiles. Naturally, this got me curious (curse you curiosity) about the exact data on bomb's priority vs other projectiles. So without further to do, here is the data I collected.

Note: Going off the data I have here, it seems that once a bomb receives 6% damage it will explode.

Fireball: Bomb Wins
F.L.U.D.D: The water remains unaffected and the bomb is sent upwards
Fireball: Cancel
Luigi's fireballs fly at a low trajectory so bombs typically go right over them​
Priority vs peach is dependent upon which turnip she pulls and whether Link and peach do soft or smash throws.
Turnip | Both Soft | Both Smash | Link Smash - Peach Soft | Link Soft - Peach Smash
Smile | Bomb Wins | Cancel | Bomb Wins | Cancel
Circle Eyes | Bomb Wins | Cancel | Bomb Wins | Cancel
Line Eyes | Bomb Wins | Cancel | Bomb Wins | Cancel
T Shaped Eyes | Cancel | Cancel | Bomb Wins | Cancel
Curved Eyes | Cancel | Cancel | Bomb Wins | Cancel
Wink | Cancel | Cancel | Cancel | Cancel
Dot Eyes | Cancel | Cancel | Cancel | Cancel
Stitches | Cancel | Cancel | Cancel | Cancel
Firebreath: Bowser's firebreath remain unaffected by the bomb. The firebreath seems to have a windbox of sorts that affects the bomb depending on how hard you throw it. A smash throw will result in the bomb being tossed up in the air. A soft throw will result is the bomb slowly "riding" the fire until it hits Bowser.
Egg: Cancel
Yoshi Bomb (star): Bomb Wins
Uncharged Luma Shot: Both Win
Fully Charged Luma Shot: Luma Shot Wins
Star Bits: Both Win
Cannonball: Cannonball wins regardless of charge
Mechakoopa: A direct hit will not affect the mechakoopa, but an indirect hit will cause it to explode
Uncharged Peanut: Bomb Wins
Fully Charged Peanut: Cancel
Banana: Bomb Wins
Chef: Bomb Wins
Oil Spill (filled with 3 bombs): Oil Spill Wins
Uncharged Bow: Bomb Wins
Fully Charged Bow: Cancel
Bombs: Cancel
Boomerang: The bomb will always cause the boomerang to return when it hits it. Whether or not the bomb pushed through depends on when you hit the boomerang. Hit the boomerang anywhere from the middle to the end and the bomb will continue flying, but if you hit the boomerang right after link throws it then your bomb will explode.
Din's Fire: This is a tricky one. For starters, once Zelda initiates a Din's Fire the explosion cannot be prevented. I believe this is common knowledge, but the fireball cannot be affected by our bombs (or anything for that matter) until it explodes. Hitting Zelda during a Din's Fire will cause her to lose control of when it explodes and therefore forcing it to go the max distance. However, she will still be able to control the trajectory. Din's Fire will cancel our bombs if it hits with the center sweet spot, but a sour hit will not affect the bomb.
Needles: Bomb Wins
The bomb can withstand up to 5 needles. If it hits all six then it will explode.​
Burst Grenade: Another tricky one. What happens depends on how far along on the attack Sheik is when the bomb hits it. If you hit the grenade at the very beginning your bomb will push through and the grenade will fall harmlessly to the ground and then slide towards you. Hitting the grenade anywhere from shortly after she throws it until she pulls the pin will stop the grenade in it's tracks. Your bomb should push through, but the grenade will still detonate. After Sheik's pulled the pin there seems to be no stopping it. Throwing your bomb at the grenade during the part where is pulls people towards it will send your bomb flying in a random direction.
Uncharged Bow: Bomb Wins
Fully Charged Arrow: Cancel
Bombs: Most of the time Gay's bomb would explode and Link's bomb would continue flying. Occasionally they would both explode on contact. I think it may be dependent on whether they collide directly or off-centered, but I'm not sure.
Boomerang: Bomb Wins
Uncharged Charge Shot: Bomb Wins
Fully Charged Charge Shot: Cancel
Homing Missile: Bomb Wins
Super Missile: Cancel
Bomb: Samus' bombs seem to be intangible until they explode. Throwing a bomb into one of hers as it exploding will cause our to explode as well.
Uncharged Paralyzer: Bomb Wins
Fully Charged Paralyzer: Cancel
Uncharged Bow: Bomb Wins
Fully Charged Bow: Cancel
Auto Reticle: Bomb Wins
Can withstand up to two shots. If Palutena hits the bomb with all three shots it will explode.​
Thunder: Bomb Wins
Elthunder: Cancel
Arcthunder: Bomb Wins
Thoron: Thoron Wins
Arcfire: Both Win
Elwind: Both Win (first hit), Elwind Wins (second hit)
Clay Shooting: Cancel
Wild Gunman:
Red Bandanna: Both Win
White Shirt: Both Win
Black Coat: Both Win
Brown Coat: Gunman Wins
Sombrero: Gunman Wins​
Trick Shot: After the dog kicks the barrel it can survive 8 attacks until it starts smoking. Hitting the barrel with a bomb counts as one of those attacks. If you throw a bomb at the barrel as it's smoking they will both explode.
Final Cutter: Final Cutter Wins
Gordo: The bomb will explode and the gordo will be sent flying back toward D3, damaging him if it connects.
Super Dedede Jump (star): Bomb Wins
Blaster: Bomb Wins
Blaster: Bomb Wins
Thunder Jolt: Bomb Wins
Thunder: Thunder Wins
Flamethrower: Both Win
Rock Smash: Bomb Wins
Can only withstand one rock fragment. If the bomb hits a second one it will explode.​
Uncharged Aura Sphere: (0%-43%) Bomb Wins, (44%-999%) Cancel
Fully Charged Aura Sphere: Cancel
Force Palm:
Sweet spot: Force Palm Wins (the timing window for Lucario to destroy the bomb and stay outside the blast radius is very small)
Tip: (0%-27%) Both Win, (28%-999%) Force Palm Wins​
Uncharged Water Shuriken: Bomb Wins
Fully Charged Water Shuriken: Both Win
Robo Beam: Both Win
Super Robo Beam: Robo Beam Wins
Gyro: Cancel
PK Fire: If the bomb hits the bolt the bomb will explode and PK Fire will activate
PK Thunder: Cancel
PK Flash: Much like Din's Fire, PK Flash is intangible until it explodes. Hitting Ness while he's charging PK Flash will prevent it from exploding. Our bomb will explode if it is caught in PK Flash's explosion.
Gyroid: Cancel
Fair/Bair: Bomb Wins
Pocket: The Priority on Villager's pocketed projectiles are the same as ours with the exception of an uncharged arrow which cancels our bombs, and the latter half of boomerang which stops the bomb without exploding it.
Pikmin: Bombs stop all of Olimar's ranged attacks including Pikmin Toss and Fsmash, unless it's a red pikmin. Bomb's are considered a fire type attack in Smash 4 so naturally red pikmin, which are immune to fire attacks, are unaffected by bombs. For all other pikmin, bombs will either stop them in their tracks or kill them if they're received enough damage.
Uncharged Sun Salutation: Bomb Wins
Fully Charged Sun Salutation: Cancel
Header: Cancel
Pill: Bomb Wins
Uncharged Bow: Bomb wins
Fully Charged Bow: Cancel
Bonus Fruit:
Cherry: Bomb Wins
Strawberry: Cancel
Orange: Cancel
Apple: Cancel
Melon: Cancel
Galaxian: Galaxian Wins
Bell: Bell Wins
Key: Key Wins​
Metal Blade: Both Win
Crash Bomber: Bomb Wins
Leaf Shield: Both Win
The bomb will destroy any leaf it touches, but I don't think it's possible for it to hit all four​
Lemons: Bomb Wins
Charge Shot: Cancels regardless of charge
Hard Knuckle: Both Win
 
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Ryu_Ken

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@ Zelkam Zelkam beautiful work. Thank you thank you THANK YOU. Added to OP.
 

Elessar

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@ Zelkam Zelkam you make us all proud. This is what being a Link main is all about: doing work.

That and flaming and trolling, of course.
 

Ryu_Ken

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FGC-Oni

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Does anyone have a strategy for recovering to the ledge? I find I'm slowly developing a better ground game but when I happen to get knocked back in the air I struggle to land safely. If I'm coming back to the ledge, I try to use the tether or go for a low recovery with an Up-special but I either get gimped or spiked. Ganondorf's spike makes me die inside lmao.

Anyways I know of the bomb trick but most of the time it doesn't explode quick enough or I fast fall by accident and KO myself. I play primarily on 3DS so maybe the controls are contributing to some minor extent. Also If I get knocked up over the stage recovering is hard for me as well. I try to air-dodge then when I land I get grabbed or if I try to land across the stage players follow obviously.

Any tips or suggestions as far as recovery game goes?
 

Zelkam

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Does anyone have a strategy for recovering to the ledge? I find I'm slowly developing a better ground game but when I happen to get knocked back in the air I struggle to land safely. If I'm coming back to the ledge, I try to use the tether or go for a low recovery with an Up-special but I either get gimped or spiked. Ganondorf's spike makes me die inside lmao.

Anyways I know of the bomb trick but most of the time it doesn't explode quick enough or I fast fall by accident and KO myself. I play primarily on 3DS so maybe the controls are contributing to some minor extent. Also If I get knocked up over the stage recovering is hard for me as well. I try to air-dodge then when I land I get grabbed or if I try to land across the stage players follow obviously.

Any tips or suggestions as far as recovery game goes?
It might be an oldy, and it was based on Brawl Link, but it's still a good read.

How To Recover
 

Elessar

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The thread that Zelkam posted by Sook is actually a must read for every Link main. I want Sook to update it and make one for smash Wii U.

Anyways, those are the basics. What I'll tell you though is to practice getting out a bomb without ffing and to take out a bomb as soon as you regain control of your char. Then apply Sook's guide and cover your return with arrows or gale, keep the bomb in hand in case you get gimped. If you do this, the bomb will always explode on time to save you.
 

CaliburChamp

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What is the most efficient way that you spike someone with D-air?
What I try to do is run off the stage, double jump and immediately D-air so that the boost from the double jump gives me some control and so Link won't fall to his doom, works better on some characters more than others. I also found D-air out of shield is pretty useful and sometimes unexpected. I also found that Bomb-throw downward from air to Up-air sets up nicely for a a juggle or a KO.
 

Rizen

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What is the most efficient way that you spike someone with D-air?
I have some trouble spiking offstage with Dair. Over the stage you can catch people off guard and bounce combo them. To Spike offstage I find it's easiest to catch ledge stalling or ledge jumps. Or spike when the opponent is recovering high.
 

CaliburChamp

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I have some trouble spiking offstage with Dair. Over the stage you can catch people off guard and bounce combo them. To Spike offstage I find it's easiest to catch ledge stalling or ledge jumps. Or spike when the opponent is recovering high.
Yes, that's a good idea. Maybe throw a Boomerang out too that goes horizontal so they won't fast fall to the legde giving you time to double jump D-air spike them if they recover high.
 

FSK

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I have some trouble spiking offstage with Dair. Over the stage you can catch people off guard and bounce combo them. To Spike offstage I find it's easiest to catch ledge stalling or ledge jumps. Or spike when the opponent is recovering high.
Some characters have very predictable recoveries when they recover low so you can just run off and dair. If you do it right you wont fast fall (press down first then A) and when you hit the opponent you will bounce which helps you recover. Here is a bad example the last KO, I have some better ones but I don't feel like recording them now.

 

DarkDeity15

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So what are your opinions on Link's Dance Trot? I'm not sure what to make of it tbh. If you don't know what Dance Trotting is, it's basically an alternative to Dash Dancing like in Melee. Check this out if you want to see how it's performed.
 
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Rizen

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So what are your opinions on Link's Dance Trot? I'm not sure what to make of it tbh. If you don't know what Dance Trotting is, it's basically an alternative to Dash Dancing like in Melee. Check this out if you want to see how it's performed.
I don't think it has a lot of applications for Link since he should be throwing out projectiles instead of dashing on the ground. It could be a good way to land Fsmash if done briefly.
 

Xephilon

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How about this one?
http://smashboards
.com/threads/new-smash-4-movement-option-corner-dash-pivot-slide.385870/

Its in the front page of smash boards and I tried it on the 3ds but its a lot harder to pull (or maybe im just doing it wrong). The AT is basically run up to a corner, pivot, and after one step you may perform an attack while sliding. Can someone verify if Link has a good enough slide to make this technique viable on the Wii U?
 
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Elessar

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How about this one?
smashboard/threads/new-smash-4-movement-option-corner-dash-pivot-slide.385870/ (Add the .com since i had to take it out)

Its in the front page of smash boards and I tried it on the 3ds but its a lot harder to pull (or maybe im just doing it wrong). The AT is basically run up to a corner, pivot, and after one step you may perform an attack while sliding. Can someone verify if Link has a good enough slide to make this technique viable on the Wii U?
Why did you take it out? Just post the Link whole. Also, I've watched that video and while I haven't tried it yet I don't see it as much of a game changer, specially for Link. I could be (and might most Def be) wrong, but that's my two cents for now. I do think that the hi should be added to the OP though nonetheless.
 

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I would post the whole link but I need to have at least 10 posts on the account to do so (but I don't).
Even though Link doesn't slide as much as the other characters, he might still get at least some use for it. I would make some tests myself but I dont have a Wii U to be able to do smash attacks easier since its pretty hard to do so on the 3ds.
 

FSK

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Only theoretical use I see for it is an edge mindgame where you dash for the edge and opponent will do a getup attack then you pivot slide and hit them with the back side of dsmash.
 

DarkDeity15

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I don't think it has a lot of applications for Link since he should be throwing out projectiles instead of dashing on the ground. It could be a good way to land Fsmash if done briefly.
Why not both? :troll: I don't spend much time spamming projectliles anyways and spend more time playing a little more aggressively and am always trying to keep myself mobile (though projectiles still take up a decent part of my game, as it should).
 
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Xephilon

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Only theoretical use I see for it is an edge mindgame where you dash for the edge and opponent will do a getup attack then you pivot slide and hit them with the back side of dsmash.
Pretty much and since his dance trot isnt exactly the greatest but this tech might give him just enough of a boost to be able to do a quick dodge andcounter with a slide smash. Not sure if im explaining right.
 
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DeTa

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Here are a couple of offstage poke options I came across last night. I have been using them online in fg (take that as you will lol) and the seem to be rather safe. Thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41pv_ezxc4
@ Epok Epok

Those are some pretty neat ideas! I think, however, it's really only a one time use to catch your opponent by surprise, as blocking rang and zair leaves you open entirely for them to punish. I'd say arrows would be the most effective because of their far reach and speed.
 

FSK

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When I recover if they go offstage after me I try to fend them off with a boomerang. If they stage in stage I try to snipe them with an arrow for some extra damage. Usually works.
 

Epok

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@ Epok Epok

Those are some pretty neat ideas! I think, however, it's really only a one time use to catch your opponent by surprise, as blocking rang and zair leaves you open entirely for them to punish. I'd say arrows would be the most effective because of their far reach and speed.
I agree that the arrow one is the safest. these options are definitely the best when the have not made it all the way to the edge yet to guard it, or if the are covering the roll option. Usually you can get a few good hit in before they either let you get back on for try to pressure through it to try to keep you off the stage. Boomerang is the safest just because of the range and how you jump back, but it is the trickiest one to do in my opinion. Zair is best when you're ledge hopping because there is practically no lag.
 

Elessar

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Personally I prefer to just ledgehop fair, Dodge, or zair onto the stage. Ledgehop zair is specially useful since very few people expect it and it covers spaced smashes as well.

I have been practicing ledgehop fair with bomb in hand as well and I can pull it off in training, haven't been able to do it in a match yet though since most opponents rushed to me when I let go and get hit by the bomb.

I don't feel safe poling and retraining the Ledge since we don't get invulnerability back so after doing it once the risk of a punish gets too high.
 

FSK

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Personally I prefer to just ledgehop fair, Dodge, or zair onto the stage. Ledgehop zair is specially useful since very few people expect it and it covers spaced smashes as well.

I have been practicing ledgehop fair with bomb in hand as well and I can pull it off in training, haven't been able to do it in a match yet though since most opponents rushed to me when I let go and get hit by the bomb.

I don't feel safe poling and retraining the Ledge since we don't get invulnerability back so after doing it once the risk of a punish gets too high.
ledge hop fair with bomb?
 

Elessar

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ledge hop fair with bomb?
Yeah, as in Brawl. You let go of the Ledge, pull out a bomb, throw it up, upB and regret the Ledge, the ledgehop fair in time to catch the falling bomb. You ledgehop fair with a bomb in hand.
 

FSK

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Yeah, as in Brawl. You let go of the Ledge, pull out a bomb, throw it up, upB and regret the Ledge, the ledgehop fair in time to catch the falling bomb. You ledgehop fair with a bomb in hand.
ohhh I thought you meant, fall back drop bomb jump and catch bomb with fair.
 

Elessar

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ohhh I thought you meant, fall back drop bomb jump and catch bomb with fair.
Nah, I had to find a work around from the brawl way since we don't have zac anymore.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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BRoomer
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Sep 22, 2008
Messages
3,969
Location
WinMelee, Australia
While you can't do it starting from the ledge, you can still Z-drop/Tether, instantly cancel the tether by hitting down, instantly double jump towards stage and use Fair to re-catch the Bomb, and in this way return on-stage with Fair while holding a Bomb. Situational but pretty cool.
 
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