Meta Link's Metagame Thread (Informative Quotes Can Be Found in the OP)

[Catana]

I found that if Link throws a bomb and the opponent shields it Link can grab>Dthrow right after the bomb starts flashing on the ground and Link won't be launched/stunned by the explosion which allows the usual Dthrow followups. The timing is tight; you have to have Link preform the ground slam hit of Dthrow as his bomb explodes. This might work with other throws too but then the explosion only damages Link.
If Link grabs immediately after throwing the bomb he has plenty of time to throw and escape before it explodes.

Soft throwing bombs is a decent tactic to land grabs if you're not predictable about it.

That's merely the invincibility you get during that throw, though (and I think thats the only throw we have with invincibility as well, but not sure?). It works against pretty much every attack/hitbox as far as I'm concerned and many other characters have it as well.
I guess it can work once, but after that any competent player will be aware and wont get grabbed after a bomb throw anymore, so dont rely on it too much.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I found that if Link throws a bomb and the opponent shields it Link can grab>Dthrow right after the bomb starts flashing on the ground and Link won't be launched/stunned by the explosion which allows the usual Dthrow followups. The timing is tight; you have to have Link preform the ground slam hit of Dthrow as his bomb explodes. This might work with other throws too but then the explosion only damages Link.
If Link grabs immediately after throwing the bomb he has plenty of time to throw and escape before it explodes.

Soft throwing bombs is a decent tactic to land grabs if you're not predictable about it.

All throws have 18 frames of invincibility at the start of the throw (i.e. frames 1 to 18).

May as well get the rest of the frame data for throws while I'm at it seeing as it's missing from the official thread.

Link's F-throw: 3% on frame 12, 4% on frame 18.
Link's B-throw: 3% on frame 12, 4% on frame 19.
Link's U-throw: 5% on frame 27, 2% on frame 33.
Link's D-throw: 3% on frame 21, 3% on frame 28.

 

[kxiong92]

So I've just noticed Zair has 8 frames of landing lag. Doesn't that make it safe from most grabs?

At the same time, I've been labbing follow ups with the first hit of Zair. It can combo into almost any of Link's ground moves such as: Dtlit, Utilt, UpB, Jab, Dsmash(against heavies and fastfallers) and Usmash.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So I've just noticed Zair has 8 frames of landing lag. Doesn't that make it safe from most grabs?

At the same time, I've been labbing follow ups with the first hit of Zair. It can combo into almost any of Link's ground moves such as: Dtlit, Utilt, UpB, Jab, Dsmash(against heavies and fastfallers) and Usmash.

[edit: since the 1.1.1 patch, all of the following is incorrect. The options are even safer on shield now.]

I'd imagine that the best options in this regard would have to be Nair, Zair, and both hits of Fair.
Note that you'd also have to factor in the fact that Link's spotdodge grants invulnerability on frame 3 while the rolls grant it on frame 4.


Let's see then.

Nair:
[so jump-squat is 7 frames, SH air time is 33 frames, Nair hits on frame 7 so I'd need to input it between frame 33 and 34 so that it begins on frame 34]

The sheer amount of shield push is making Mario unable to grab me... so I'll make them stand as close as possible.
Ok so when you land right in front of him Mario's frame 6 grab can grab Link.
Against Charizard's frame 8 grab, once again if you have poor spacing you can be grabbed.
But Bowser's 9 frame grab can't grab you if you spotdodge even if you land right up close.

For most of the cast then, Nairing just before you land will rely on half decent spacing and its great shield push back to keep you safe.

If the opponent is pushed outside of their OoS option range and they are forced to drop shield and use some other option either with good range or out of a dash, nobody will be able to punish you because Link can act anywhere between 8 frames to 1 frame before the opponent depending on how long they had held their shield up before getting hit (without them power-shielding of course), i.e. if the opponent is 1 frame too early to get the power-shield, then Link will be able to act 8 frames earlier than them if they drop shield; and at worst Link will still have a 1 frame advantage even if their shield was held up long before it got hit.


Zair:
[Zair comes out first on frame 12, so input Zair such that it begins on frame 29 to have Link land asap (for testing purposes only)]

And as expected Mario grabs immediately and easily gets Link with his frame 6 grab.
Charizard's 8 frame grab will miss if you spotdodge and will grab you if you try to roll.

Note of course that the method I used to test it required Link to be right up close for the purposes of consistency, but this isn't required. So long as you hit their shield on the last frame of your air time, you'll have a similar frame by frame situation against the opponent (except against moves that take time to gain range such as tether grabs), with the main difference being how close to them you are which allows for the possibility of out-ranging some responses. It then depends on how much you want to use it as a hit-confirm i.e. how close you need to be.

Zair has no shield push back though, so in most situations it relies purely on spacing.

If used perfectly such that the Zair connects in the last frame that you are airborne, at worst Link would have a 2 frame advantage against someone who was forced to drop their shield. Very safe.


Fair 2:
[hits on frame 26 so input between frame 14 and 15 so that it begins on frame 15]

Bowser's 9 frame grab will get you if you miss-spaced.
Zelda's 10 frame grab will too.
Link's 12 frame grab can be spotdodged even if used up close but cannot be avoided with roll.

It will rely on spacing for the most part, but this can be difficult to do as it comes out so late. The extra shield push back makes it comparable to Fair 1 even if it has slightly less range.

If the opponent is forced to drop their shield as their OoS options are out of reach, at worst the opponent will have a 2 frame advantage, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a character that could punish Link in time.


Fair 1:
[hits on frame 14 so input between frame 26 and 27 so that it begins on frame 27]

Link's 12 frame grab can be spotdodged even if miss-spaced but cannot be avoided with roll.

Relies on good spacing.

If the opponent is forced to drop their shield as their OoS options are out of reach, again, at worst the opponent will have a 2 frame advantage.

 

[Batu]

So guys for over a moth to now, i was viewing a video of hyrule hero doing a bomb>upb in the air string to get a kill and since that moment i been wondering how solid is this string/kill setup? Can you help me foxy?

 

[Dumbfire]

Dtilt > Up B is also a combo depending on DI and can also kill insanely early, it's technically a confirm but Up B can be whiffy and you can DI out of it (I've never seen anyone not a Link main do this though), which is why I don't often do it, but I feel now that it's been mentioned again that I ought to play around with both.

 

[kxiong92]

Dtilt > Up B is also a combo depending on DI and can also kill insanely early, it's technically a confirm but Up B can be whiffy and you can DI out of it (I've never seen anyone not a Link main do this though), which is why I don't often do it, but I feel now that it's been mentioned again that I ought to play around with both.

The thing is that aerial upb doesn't work well against fast faller like fox. Missing and getting airdodged can get you punished pretty hard too.

 

[Rizen]

I've found floaty characters like Jigglypuff can escape aerial upB pretty easily. It's probably best to do on big characters like Bowser.

 

[Batu]

I've found floaty characters like Jigglypuff can escape aerial upB pretty easily. It's probably best to do on big characters like Bowser.

I think that if you start the attack with the hitbox in link's back, you get the last hit of the attack more consistently.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I think that if you start the attack with the hitbox in link's back, you get the last hit of the attack more consistently.

I'm not so sure that this is the case. Both front and back hits suffer from the same ***********. From what I can make out, if you hit the opponent with any of the hits of aerial Up-special toward the lower part of their hurtbox, i.e. just barely hitting them with the top of the hitbox, they'll get hit further up than normal, which can get progressively worse with each hit that actually connects until you just barely clip them and they fly way too high up.

If you want to land all hits, make sure that the first hit which connects hits the top of their character model and the rest should fall into place. (probably needs more testing)

While I'm at it:

Does anyone know how many frames of landnng lag does Link's aerial Upb has? It was not in the frame data thread.

Aerial Up-special has 30 frames of landing lag.

 

[DUKEL]

Honestly I find Bomb>u-air to be a much more consistent kill confirm.

On another note, I've been working on edge guarding (among other things) recently and I've found a few things.

If you roll to the ledge while holding the bomb then drop the bomb behind you (airdodge>grab), with the right timing you can catch teleporters in their frames of vulnerability without having to go offstage - it stagespikes pretty well too. This is also an excellent edge guard against diddy kong as it knocks off his barrels and makes it very difficult for him to recover. the reason for facing backwards instead of forwards is because the bomb falls just a tad further away from the stage when you drop it behind you, which is closer to where the vulnerability hurtboxes are.

If you grab ledge, do your jump getup, then b-reverse arrow, you can catch characters that like to stall when returning to the stage, and shoot the arrow below the horizontal line of the stage. you can also jump off the stage backwards, then double jump b-reverse towards the blast zone, but if you miss that b-reverse input you have no chance of living unless you're at high percent with a bomb in your hand. You can also jump off forwards then b-reverse towards the stage to attempt to stage spike them but that would require the read of the century if you were wanting to catch a recovery. However if you do have an opponent attempting to go under the stage (probably a bad player who wants to look good), this works really well and usually kills them.

If you face away from the ledge, full hop bomb pull, z-drop the bomb, and then pick it up with a bair, go offstage with the bair, then z-drop the bomb you can follow the bomb down and double jump>any aerial and gimp your opponent super low and still recover - as long as you're above 60%, as the knockback of the bomb exploding propels you towards the stage, especially if you DI it right.

You can jump offstage with a bomb in hand, throw the bomb towards the stage, then double jump nair without catching the bomb, then b-reverse your up-b when returning to the stage to cover a ton of your opponents options and have an almost constant stream of hitboxes.

I've found that if you catch your opponent with a dair offstage, you can often follow it up with an up-b off an air dodge reaction/read and still grab the ledge. Generally opponents don't even air dodge the first time, but you should be expecting one if you attempt it more than once.

On large characters fair true combos into up-b at mid percents (DI dependent, but their DI has to be godlike to avoid the up-b).

In terms of covering getups, if you fullhop>double jump>immediate dair (it helps to have L set to jump with the A stick here), the dair autocancels. If you do this you can cover all the getups, including roll as once you land you can do a variety of things from pivot grabbing to jabbing, to up-bing. For glory Links (and ourselves in our scrubbier moments, unfortunately) work in our favor here because everyone expects our dair to have landing lag, but since it doesn't . Sometimes even in neutral you can do the FH DJ Dair auto cancel and punish your opponent for thinking they can punish you, but you should never do this when you're at high percent for obvious reasons. In terms of covering getups, I've found this to be the most effective option. If you don't fast fall it, it auto cancels so you can then cover getups another way, but if they getup faster than you can get there, you can fast fall the dair and cover everything except rolling on.

Edit: More labbing this morning reminded me of something. On battlefield, if you make sure our back foot is between the middle of the stage and the edge of the yellow circle (closer to the edge is best), we can do a rising bomb throw out of a FH which will bounce on the edge of the battlefield platform, then fall past the edge of the stage, sometimes bouncing on the edge of the stage as well. The timing for this is pretty lenient too. In terms of using something similar in the neutral, you can also roll to the edge of the stage and be very well spaced to do the same thing with similar timing, and you get a soft tossed bomb that you can follow up and combo out of (most easily with dash attack) at low-mid percents.

I've also been doing a lot of research on our boomerang, and I'll probably be posting about that soon.

 

[Rinku リンク]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned but from what I tested before Link's U-Smash seems to have more KO potential when his opponent is caught behind him.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned but from what I tested before Link's U-Smash seems to have more KO potential when his opponent is caught behind him.

Not exactly. U-smash will kill earlier or later depending on where the first and second hit position the opponent to be hit on the third swing. In general, the higher up and the more towards the centre, the more chance it has of killing early. But there is no notable difference between starting with the opponent behind you or infront of you (that I can make out). The first two hitboxes simply try to position the opponent as best they can for the third hit to connect, and the adjustments they make to compensate (or in some cases over-compensate) will depend on factors such as how far away the opponent is etc. This can lead to situations where an opponent is killed perhaps 10% earlier (give or take depending on the opponent/stage etc) purely because of some dumb luck to do with being in the perfect position relative to Link when they got hit, but this can happen both in-front and behind Link.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Ah that seems to make more sense. Thank you for the confirmation.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Thoughts on footstool combos out of Dthrow?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Thoughts on footstool combos out of Dthrow?

The best chance will be against fast fallers I reckon.
Between 0% and 8%, you can buffer a grounded footstool on Fox without Fox being able to escape, but then this doesn't lead into anything. Then at 9% he can act before we're in a position to footstool.
This has me interested though.
Using this as a frame of reference http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/FallSpeed/ I'll try D3.
Nope. Not happening.
On a hunch I tried Falcon too, and it didn't work. The opponent is generally going to be too high up and/or they'll act too early.
The only reason it worked for Fox was because we were granted extra frames because of the landing lag and because he was right there to be footstooled immediately.

 

[DarkDeity15]

The best chance will be against fast fallers I reckon.
Between 0% and 8%, you can buffer a grounded footstool on Fox without Fox being able to escape, but then this doesn't lead into anything. Then at 9% he can act before we're in a position to footstool.
This has me interested though.
Using this as a frame of reference http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/FallSpeed/ I'll try D3.
Nope. Not happening.
On a hunch I tried Falcon too, and it didn't work. The opponent is generally going to be too high up and/or they'll act too early.
The only reason it worked for Fox was because we were granted extra frames because of the landing lag and because he was right there to be footstooled immediately.

So then it's a Fox only thing?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So then it's a Fox only thing?

Fox is the outlier in terms of fall speed, yes. I don't believe anyone else in the cast would be unable to move before landing.
Besides, I personally don't see the point of getting a guaranteed grounded footstool into nothing, so it's not a big deal.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Fox is the outlier in terms of fall speed, yes. I don't believe anyone else in the cast would be unable to move before landing.
Besides, I personally don't see the point of getting a guaranteed grounded footstool into nothing, so it's not a big deal.

Yeh, wasn't expecting much anyways. Thanks for looking into it for me though lol.

 

[KenMeister]

So is Shocking Spin a viable option to use over default now or is it still useless?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

So is Shocking Spin a viable option to use over default now or is it still useless?

Yeah, that's the question isn't it.

The damage/knockback buff helps, yes, but I'm still leaning towards the normal spin attack at this point. It's just that bad as a recovery tool. It's not just about distance traveled, it also lacks any real maneuverability and it doesn't let you ledge snap until toward the end, which leaves you sitting there at the edge asking to get dunked. I won't rule it out as being matchup dependent just yet though because we're still not entirely sure what it's capable of.

 

[Natmax]

I feel like we're going to have a meta shift due to the shield stun changes, I used to shield grab most aerials after forcing approaches but I'm not sure this will be safe anymore, how do you guys think this will change link meta? I'm excited to have more landing and approaching options due to safety, but in general I don't want to approach so I wonder how I'll have to shift my strategy.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

And then there was everything:

Since my old frame data sheet is way outdated, even for 1.10, I'm gonna be putting together a new one. The old one will still be there so you can better compare the shield numbers as I update the new one.

Currently only has Link, will hopefully have Ryu and Marth there by the end of today as well.

If you follow the link, it will show you a bunch of numbers. What I'd like to draw your attention to for now is the last two columns. A positive number means that we have a frame advantage, and a negative number means that they have a frame advantage.

The first thing you should note then is that Nair, Fair, Bair and Zair all give us a frame advantage on drop. What this means is, if you space it so that the opponent can't hit you with an OoS option, you can act before they can. This is more than just 'safe'. This allows you to continue pressuring them at your discretion.

Something I found particularly interesting however was that Nair is potentially 'safe' even when used right up close. You're only at a -2 disadvantage, which is silly. Let's say the opponent has a 6 frame grab (Mario and Fox have a 6 frame grab; it's the standard quick grab I'm pretty sure). You come in, land a Nair in their face on shield and they attempt to punish with a frame perfect grab OoS. With you at a -2 frame advantage, that's like them having a 4 frame grab. But hang on a second. If you buffer a spotdodge, it has invulnerability starting on frame 3, and if you buffer a roll it has invulnerability starting on frame 4, which means... 'whiff'. Now obviously being able to roll away requires landing the Nair frame perfectly, but then we're talking about the quicker grabs in the game here. There are plenty of matchups that won't require frame perfect precision to avoid their OoS options, and this will open up a whole new playing field for us.

It should go without saying that Jab 2, D-tilt and F-tilt are 'safe' against shield drop options, which is made practical by their range and/or shield pushback.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Thoughts on the new patch for us Link players as a whole? Personally I feel like it's a slight buff for us since people can't abuse shield freely against us as much anymore.

 

[Batu]

I'm not so sure that this is the case. Both front and back hits suffer from the same ***********. From what I can make out, if you hit the opponent with any of the hits of aerial Up-special toward the lower part of their hurtbox, i.e. just barely hitting them with the top of the hitbox, they'll get hit further up than normal, which can get progressively worse with each hit that actually connects until you just barely clip them and they fly way too high up.

If you want to land all hits, make sure that the first hit which connects hits the top of their character model and the rest should fall into place. (probably needs more testing)

While I'm at it:

Aerial Up-special has 30 frames of landing lag.

So if i land a bomb, this mean that i can do a well spaced upb and get the kill or is not that solid?

 

[Sanjuro]

Thoughts on the new patch for us Link players as a whole? Personally I feel like it's a slight buff for us since people can't abuse shield freely against us as much anymore.

I've seen it come in handy in some situations. Back swing of down smash hasn't been punished as much on shield for me. Though I do miss being able to use shield grab on some of the quicker characters. I think it's a mixed bag at this point.

 

[DarkDeity15]

So here's my take on this whole thing. This patch both buffs Link and cripples him. This is the case, because the added shield stun means that Link is now much safer on shield, but also means that he now has no effective OoS options other than rolls since everything else Link has is too slow on start-up. So in the broad scheme of things, Link's playstyle has been intensified, only that we're able to use our sword more often up close and even pressure opponents before capitalizing or getting away. We must focus more on keeping people at a safe distance though, which is easier thanks to the shield change (SH Zair and pivot Ftilt are insane on shield and some moves that weren't that safe on shield before are now safe, such as Dtilt and jab), but in return we get bodied hard in a lot of MUs when we're forced to shield. To add onto that, our attacks are still slow and highly punishable on whiff. So I'd say that this patch is pretty bad for Link, but it's not awful (Shiek is still impossible now though). Until we get start-up frame buffs on our jab and maybe Utilt and/or grounded Spin Attack (which is overdue, grounded SA is pretty useless and a quick, potent kill move out of shield would help Link a lot), which is hopefully bound to happen, we're going to struggle harder than before.

Please call me out on anything I might've gotten wrong or am leaving out, thanks.

 

[Rizen]

So here's my take on this whole thing. This patch both buffs Link and cripples him. This is the case, because the added shield stun means that Link is now much safer on shield, but also means that he now has no effective OoS options other than rolls since everything else Link has is too slow on start-up. So in the broad scheme of things, Link's playstyle has been intensified, only that we're able to use our sword more often up close and even pressure opponents a bit before capitalizing or getting away. We must focus more on keeping people at a safe distance though, which is easier thanks to the shield change (SH Zair and pivot Ftilt are insane on shield and some moves that weren't that safe on shield before are now safe, such as Dtilt and jab), but in return we get bodied hard in a lot of MUs when we're forced to shield. To add onto that, our attacks are still slow and highly punishable on whiff. So I'd say that this patch is pretty bad for Link, but it's not awful (Shiek is still impossible now though). Until we get start-up frame buffs on our jab and maybe Utilt and/or grounded Spin Attack (which is overdue, grounded SA is pretty useless and a quick, potent kill move out of shield would help Link a lot), which is hopefully bound to happen, we're going to struggle harder than before.

Please call me out on anything I might've gotten wrong or am leaving out, thanks.

Link didn't have a good OoS game before. His grab is frame 12, jumpsquat 7, and his upB (8) and USmash (10) are extremely punishable on wiff. Link's best defense has always been spacing/zoning which got buffed. IMO the patch was much more of a buff than nerf.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Link didn't have a good OoS game before. His grab is frame 12, jumpsquat 7, and his upB (8) and USmash (10) are extremely punishable on wiff. Link's best defense has always been spacing/zoning which got buffed. IMO the patch was much more of a buff than nerf.

True, but the lack of shield stun back then helped a lot with OoS things. I stand by my opinion, though I hope I'm wrong. I've gotta start playing soon to finally see things for myself. I remember reading something about projectiles and shield stun being changed though. Someone should look into that.

Edit: Also, about aerial Shocking Spin, I heard someone saying that moves with electrical properties are "safer" on shield. So maybe ledge grab canceled SS while the opponent is at the ledge or something like that is a good option? Might wanna ask the Pikachus about that if you don't know what I'm talking about. Might drop by with a source later though.

 

[Knife8193]

Building on what @Be_Mild and Fox Is Openly Deceptive were saying, I think it would be helpful to compare how much shieldstun Link's moves have pre-patch and post 1.11 utilizing the old and new shieldstun formulas.

Old Shieldstun: floor(damage / 2.56), includes projectiles
New Shieldstun: floor(damage / 1.75) + 2 for physical attacks and floor(damage / 3.5) + 2 for projectiles

All numbers after the colon represent frames of shield stun from the old shieldstun to the new shieldstun.

Jab 1 (2.5%): 0 > 3

Jab 2 (2.5%): 0 > 3

Jab 3 (5%): 1 > 4

Dash Attack (weakest hitbox, 12%): 4 > 8

Dash Attack (tipped, 14%): 5 > 10

Ftilt (13%): 5 > 9

Utilt (9%): 3 > 7

Dtilt (11%): 4 > 8

Fsmash 1 (weak hit, 7%): 2 > 6

Fsmash 1 (tipped, 14%): 5 > 10

Fsmash 2 (weak, 12%): 4 > 8

Fsmash 2 (strong, 13%): 5 > 9

Usmash 1 (4%): 1 > 4

Usmash 2 (3%): 1 > 3

Usmash 3 (weakest hitbox, 9%): 3 > 7

Usmash 3 (strongest hitbox, 11%): 4 > 8

Dsmash 1 (weakest hitbox, 14%): 5 > 10

Dsmash 1 (strongest hitbox, 17%): 6 > 11

Dsmash 2 (weakest hitbox, 10%): 3 > 7

Dsmash 2 (strongest hitbox, 12%): 4 > 8

Nair (weakest hitbox, 6%): 2 > 5

Nair (strongest hitbox, 11%): 4 > 8

Fair 1 (8%): 3 > 6

Fair 2 (10%): 3 > 7

Bair 1 (3%): 1 > 3

Bair 2 (5%): 1 > 4

Uair (early hit, 15%): 5 > 11

Uair (late, 13%): 5 > 9

Dair (meteor or late hit, 15%): 5 > 11

Dair (strongest hitbox, 18%): 7 > 12

Zair 1 (2.5%): 0 > 3

Zair 2 (4%): 1 >4

Uncharged Hero's Bow (5%): 1 > 3

Fully charged Hero's Bow (12%): 4 > 5

Gale Boomerang (strong, 7%): 2 > 4

Gale Boomerang (weak, 5%): 1 > 3

Uncharged grounded Spin Attack (weakest hitbox, 5%): 1 > 4

Uncharged grounded Spin Attack (strongest hitbox, 14%): 5 > 10

Fully charged grounded Spin Attack (strongest hitbox, 22%): 8 > 14

Aerial Spin Attack (weak hit, 2%): 0 > 3

Aerial Spin Attack (strong hit, 4%): 1 > 4

Bomb (explosion, 9%): 3 > 4

I omitted customs. Just interesting to see here. Projectiles in general did not receive much benefit due to their unique formula, but they at least got something. The real winners here in my opinion are the increased shield stun for zair, jabs, dsmash, and dtilt.

I mentioned this in the patch thread, but I thought I'd talk about some application stuff here based on a week of playing the new patch as well as some frame data research.

-Dtilt is really good now. It was always a relatively decent option to throw out in CQC after the Jab 1 nerf patch sped up the start frames, but was overshadowed by mostly his jab, pivot ftilt, and utilt. It already had good combo ability, being able to follow it up with a Uair or a Fair if the opponent didn't DI (in most cases until late percents, you can still follow their DI and hit them). Adding 4 frames of shield stun makes it a lot safer on shield, even safer than Jab 1 due to its superior shield stun (3 for Jab 1, 8 for Dtilt) and comparable FAF (28 for Jab 1, 29 for Dtilt). Given that it's so safe in neutral, potentially shield pokes, and leads into 20%+ combos, you should use dtilt more. I'm speaking from experience as well.

-Zair is mostly safe on shield assuming you space it well and hit with the second hitbox (the one that does 4%). Just be careful, some of the faster characters are still capable of punishing you if shielded and most characters can punish you if they powershield it. Great poking tool that got slightly better.

-Jabs are safer to throw out in neutral, especially since they have actual shield stun now. Well spaced jabs are harder to punish, though I still don't recommend making a habit out of jabbing shields. Still great for Link's CQC game.

-Dsmash is amazing as a shield pressure tool. It has great shield pushback, great shield stun, good shield damage, shield pokes, and catches rolls. You can try to charge it a bit for mind games. None of this is really new, just that the increased shield stun helps it do it's job better.

-OOS options are a lot worse, tether grabbing out of shield is very difficult on characters with safe aerials or fast jabs (it already was prepatch). Try to learn how to Up B OOS if you haven't already put that in your game, it is 4 frames faster. I typically use it when I Jab 1 > Jab 2 > Shield the opponent's aerial/jab > Up B OOS, or when I Dthrow > Shield an aerial > Up B OOS. Unfortunately, you can't rely too much on your OOS game in most cases you will have to accept that an opponent hit your shield for free and attempt to reset to neutral with a roll or jump.

-Anything I haven't mentioned is probably not much better than it was prepatch. Projectile game did get slightly better with a few frames of shield stun added here and there and powershield window was nerfed from 1-4 frames to 1-3 frames, meaning less fear of your projectiles getting PS and punished. In practice, I did not notice that much of a boon to our camp game despite theory supporting it. Bair 1 and late Nair are still extremely punishable on shield, increased shield stun did not help much with that.

 

[GerMoj]

Hi! about a month ago I made a thread about Aerial Spin Attack, so Fox Is Openly Deceptive talked to me and and showed me my error at making that thead and told me to better put this in here.

Now with that clear, I'd like to deviate a little from the Shield Stun current discussion and talk about Link's Aerial Spin Attack (ASA for short). Now and then I've been finding it a really cool tool to get some kills at higher %'s.

Bomb Throw (Direct Impact) -> ASA
I call this "Hey! (bomb) Listen! (ASA)" with my friends

I think this is a really good tool to add to Link's meta because of Link's way to play. Link is not a rush down character and also he is not a really a "Punish Capitalizer" as ZSS is, but he is really strong in the footsies, it is not rare for a Link player to rack of huge damage on it's opponents to get the kill with a Grab -> Up-Throw, and I really hate to need to fish for this option when playing a pacient player, so I've found that Link can convert his footsies into a Kill at higher cool percents (about 100-120% onwards on most characters).

I've been using this a lot, and I think it is a true combo (the game counts the first hit of ASA as the second hit of this combo -bomb being the first one-).

This works really good on most of the characters, but I shouldn't use it on Falco and Fox (the fall to fast to get the last hit on them on most cases) and on some floaties like Peach and Rosalina (they float away from the last hit).

Down Below I will leave some of the research of when this thing begins to true combo and where it starts killing (I considered the red lightning animation as a kill) along with some notes of what this thing does on the characters).

NOTE: The ko range can be extended if you double jump and it can still be true. I recommend double jumping to get better position and secure the combo.

Spoiler

The information will be posted as follows.

CHARACTER
FIRST COMBO %
KO RANGE
NOTES

MARIO
37%
101% - 143%
Pretty Standard

LUIGI
26%
100% - 129%
Can get out sooner because of floatiness. Try to double jump to get a more reliable setup and extend the range.

PEACH
0%
101% - 119%
More floaty than Luigi, so recommended to double jump to get a reliable setup.

BOWSER
21%
119% - 166%
Great range because of Bowser's weight and huge hitbox.

YOSHI
29%
108% - 134%
Really shouldn't try to do this beyond this range because of Yoshi's great aerials.

ROSALINA & LUMA
0%
89% - 107%
Very hard to get. When Luma's around, the exposion will hit Rosalina and send her too far from you to combo. When without Luma, Rosalina will act defensively so getting the bomb will be hard and even when it connects, you have to be very precise to get the KO or Rosalina will get away. At that percent, pretty much any horizontal attack will kill from that distance to the ledge in most cases. Not worth it.

BOWSER JR
21%
112% - 160%
Pretty huge range.

WARIO
26%
106% - 151%
Wario loves to be in the air, so catching him with a bomb in the air and double jumping to get it is plausible.

MR GAME & WATCH
22%
87% - 118%
Pretty floaty, so he can escape if not done properly. Double jump for reliability.

DONKEY KONG
15%
119% - 171%
Really easy to connect after a bomb, good kill setup

DIDDY KONG
44%
99% - 150%
You must be precise, if not, Diddy will escape

LINK
28%
104% - 151%
Pretty flashy to do in a ditto.

ZELDA
9%
95% - 127%
-Don't you feel bad while hitting Zelda?
-No, she pushed me from a cliff.

SHEIK
44%
103% - 136%
Watch out! She can fast fall from it if not properly spaced.

GANONDORK
20%
111% - 150%
Actually not a bad idea to do it before the KO range. Sometimes it gets Ganon far to way from the stage to recover.

GAY
35%
103% - 132%
SMACK HIM

SAMUS
22%
110% - 146%
The tricky part is hitting with the bomb.

ZERO SUIT SAMUS
38%
96% - 133%
Almost about the same precautions than the other fast fallers.

PIT
12%
107%-142%
He is a pretty standard character, so getting the combo isn't that hard.

PALUTENA
17%
99% -130%
Palutena has a big hurtbox, is light and floaty, so making a double jump on higher percent to secure the combo is recommended.

MARTH
10%
101%-139%
Marth tends to pop quite weird, you need to be a little closer to catch it. Sometimes if mispaced he might pop towards you. You still can catch it though by doing the spin attack in either direction.

IKE
9%
109%-161%
Ike is heavy and has a big hurtbox, so it is easy to get the combo after the bomb confirm.

ROBIN
18%
103%-148%
Pretty much the same note as Marth

KIRBY
25%
91%-115%
I don't recommend using this on Kirby because of many factors. The bomb can go above him if misplaced, you have a small window to hit and there are better options to get the KO. If you really want it, double jump to place you into a better comboing position.

KING DEDEDE
0%
113%-192%
OMG! King Dedede has the biggest window to hit this because of it's weight and floatiness. After you hit with a bomb, it is pretty easy to get the hit.

METAKNIGHT
33%
93%-135%
The thing is that it is dangerous to try to do this combo to him, as a whif or mistime will really be fatal. If you are at high percent you can be at risk, because if you can't make it MK will Shuttle Loop you, possibly getting your stock.

LITTLE MAC
23%
96%-146%
Opposite to MK, Little Mac is really safe to combo into this as he can't really make anything. You can also try to do this at lower percents because you will launch Little Mac off stage and he will have a really hard time to come back.

FOX
---
---
DON'T EVEN TRY IT!. Maybe Fox is worthy of the Triforce (possibly because of Starfox Adventures) but it is really, really hard to get him into this. On training mode I only did it once, but I think it must be frame perfect as there are two ways to end this: Fox pops up and is realeased from the finishing blow or he falls down waiting you to fall into a charged Up-Smash.

FALCO
59%
98%-134%
Even when Falco is a fast faller, it doesn't compares to Fox. It is tricky to get this combo. After you confirm the first hit of the ASA, you must put the joystick into neutral, any other input will make Falco either pop up or fast fall. I recommend looking for another KO option.

PICK-A-CHEW
39%
93%-136%
It is almost the same scenario as Kirby. Also it is easy to misplace the bomb throw making Pikachu pop towards you.

CHARIZARD
28%
116% - 155%
By messing up with the joystick, something funny happens: after you connect the fisrt hit of the ASA and push the joystick towards Charizard you will move a little faster than Charizard, making you get another hit. This hit is located behind you and it is placed between the second last hit and the last hit in front of you. This will place Charizard above you at the last hit, making it go up and backwards after it connects. It will start killing at 140% on the ceiling.

LUCARIO
13%
103%-146%
Just... Watch out for Aura.

JIGGLYPUFF
0%
85%-95%
You have a very small window. Possibly changing ASA for U-Air might be a better idea (just be careful because that isn´t a true combo)

GRENINJA
120%
120%-147%
The same deal as Falco

DUCK HUNT
13%
99%-147%
Nothing too relvant.

R.O.B.
0%
108%-157%
ROB has a big hurtbox. abuse that.

NESS
16%
100%-136%
Ness pops up really high. You need to watch your timing to get this one. Double jumping also works.

CAPTAIN FALCON
55%
107%-165%
Nothing relevant here.

VILLAGER
23%
104%-137%
Recommended double jump.

OLIMAR
8%
91%-118%
He is pretty light so you kill early. Because of this he has a short window so maybe other option will be better.

WII FIT TRAINER
0%
107%-135%
Nothing remarkable

DR. MARIO
20%
104%-141%
Pretty much the same thing as regular Mario

DARK PIT
12%
107%-142%
Pretty much the same as Pit

BAE
10%
101%-139%
Just for this case, treat Lucina as Marth.

MONANDO
2%
107%-151%
Tested on regular Shulk. Percent may differ depending of the Monado activated.

PAC-MAN
12%
104%-133%
Because he likes to jump and drop hydrants, it's not recomended to try to get an ASA in a different way.

MEGAMAN
30%
103%-161%
Pretty easy setup.

SONIC
0%
98%-135%
Very satisfying to net as Sonic is really hard to kill in many other ways (this one is difficult too, but this gives you something extra into your arsenal.)

MEWTWO
0%
91%-123%
At this range, Mewtwo will die almost of everything you throw at him. It's a nice option, but there are better ones.

LUCAS
45%
102%-135%
Don't treat him as Ness. Don't

ROY
45%
106%-158%
At early percents of the kill setup, treat him as Falco as he might fall from the combo and punish you with a Smash Attack

RYU
30%
106%-149%
Easy to get the ASA after the bomb strikes. If you feel bold, you can try to intercept a Focus Attack ont the air as the multihit will drag him and cancel it's armor. If missed, be wary that you will meet a terrible fate.

Also, ASA has a rare hitbox that connects at the last hit above links head, that sends them above and backwards, further investigation on this hitbox might be useful.

Another great utility of this move is Edge-Guarding and Countering Edge Guarding mixing up Link's options on the air. When edgeguarding you might try to do your usual shenanigans to gimp, spike or blast the opponent, but have in mind ASA on the mix.

ASA is great because if you whiff your first gimp attempt you might ASA while blocking the ledge (just as a blocking in volleyball) while delaying it to get some of the next scenarios:

1).- You actually hit and KO or launch him again, possibly without second jump.

This works really well against some recoveries without hitbox such as Rosalina and Pit and telegraphed recoveries such as Falcon and Luigi

2).- You might not aim to hit but you might try to Moon Land to get the upper hand at the ledge again.

This works better with recoveries that teleport the user or are pretty hard to read susch as Mewtwo and Pikachu, or have invincibility/super armor like Mario and Charizard

Moon Land explanation

Spoiler

You can also convert some edge guard attempts from you opoonent into your own edgeguard and even a kill. I discovered this because one of my friend mains Mario and Falcon and he really loves to spike people. When returning to the ledge, you should try to aim to the farthest point of the bottom slop of the stage, and then Reverse Up-B. If your opponent miss their edgeguard now they are in a position where the can be edgeguarded by yourself with ASA, try this as a mix up, because doing this too often may lead your foe to catch up and eventually punish with a B-air.

Finally, ASA can be a Kill option out of grab. Now that people are catching on to our D-Throw -> U-Air kill option they are starting to jump out of our reach. Double jumping into ASA adds some spice to our D-Throw KO options besides air dodge bait into smash or U-Air. Even though it isn't guaranteed, must people don't expect this and are killed from ASA at the ceiling,, especially if we connect the odd hitbox that sends them up and backwards. I have some replays of this and I'll post them eventually as the Kill percent to D-Throw->ASA from all characters.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

I've theorized an edgeguard setplay that should cover every single option from ledge and wanted to share it here to see if there are any holes in my idea.

The idea behind it is that your opponent can buffer 3 options (ledge jump, ledge roll, get up attack) after a tether trump that essentially negate the tether trumps effectiveness. A successful tether trump leads to a guaranteed drop from ledge, jump back dair aka death but your opponent can always buffer 3 options so the setup never truly works.

The concept is to set up 2 bombs quickly. One as close to the ledge as possible. This bomb will blow up (jokes) any opponent that decides to jump or do a getup attack.

And the second bomb will be at a distance that covers ledge roll.

So the setup is after you send your opponent off stage
1. full hop bomb pull z drop right at the ledge.
2. Bomb pull run off stage toss bomb towards stage. This if timed accurately sets up a bomb at roll distance that will not blow up but sit there.
3. Now you're conveniently facing stage and just have to tap z to tether and up to trump
4a. Your opponent decides to hold ledge and get trumped. You ledge release jump back dair and take their stock
4b. Your opponent decides to hold get up attack or jump. They make contact with the bom. You ledge release jump straight up dair and take their stock.
4c. Your opponent decides to ledge roll into your conveniently placed bomb. You ledge release jump forward and captitalize off of bomb. You can up-smash or footstool into jab lock or whatever you want.

Any thoughts here? I am probably going to start working on this setplay and making a video about it shortly unless there are any concepts I am describing that won't work.

 

[Rizen]

I've theorized an edgeguard setplay that should cover every single option from ledge and wanted to share it here to see if there are any holes in my idea.

The idea behind it is that your opponent can buffer 3 options (ledge jump, ledge roll, get up attack) after a tether trump that essentially negate the tether trumps effectiveness. A successful tether trump leads to a guaranteed drop from ledge, jump back dair aka death but your opponent can always buffer 3 options so the setup never truly works.

The concept is to set up 2 bombs quickly. One as close to the ledge as possible. This bomb will blow up (jokes) any opponent that decides to jump or do a getup attack.

And the second bomb will be at a distance that covers ledge roll.

So the setup is after you send your opponent off stage
1. full hop bomb pull z drop right at the ledge.
2. Bomb pull run off stage toss bomb towards stage. This if timed accurately sets up a bomb at roll distance that will not blow up but sit there.
3. Now you're conveniently facing stage and just have to tap z to tether and up to trump
4a. Your opponent decides to hold ledge and get trumped. You ledge release jump back dair and take their stock
4b. Your opponent decides to hold get up attack or jump. They make contact with the bom. You ledge release jump straight up dair and take their stock.
4c. Your opponent decides to ledge roll into your conveniently placed bomb. You ledge release jump forward and captitalize off of bomb. You can up-smash or footstool into jab lock or whatever you want.

Any thoughts here? I am probably going to start working on this setplay and making a video about it shortly unless there are any concepts I am describing that won't work.

The problem with this is, even though you're setting up for a ledge trump, you're letting the opponent reach the ledge without attacking them. This puts them in a much safer position than if you simply ran offstage and Fair/Nair-ed them. If you have that much time it's better to pressure the opponent offstage.

 

[Z3phIr]

By the time the opponent buffers an option i'm pretty sure the bomb at the ledge is still not close to exploding. Maybe a really laggy ledge attack, i'm not sure. Jumping negates the bomb at the ledge. From your steps I see you mention soft throwing a bomb towards the stage to cover ledge roll. Even then they can shield, especially if you're doing this later than the ledge at the bomb.

And what Rizen said. This is pretty hard (for me) to do but a F-tilt attempt for the 2 frames vulnerability is an idea..

 

[TurboLink]

4:20 Is that a true combo?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

4:20 Is that a true combo?

No. Falco could have airdodged it barely. If he was hit off the ground instead then Falco could have power-shielded it barely. What you want to do instead is hold backwards as you Bair so that you turn around on the first actionable frame and then do the U-tilt (with the A-stick to make it easier) immediately while facing Falco. If you do that instead there is no escape regardless of whether Falco was in the air or on the ground when he got hit by Bair so long as you execute it properly, so practise it first.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

Is there a braintrust/data source regarding Link Nair Locks?
I'm curious and wanted to do a lab study on:

-Who the nair lock works on
-What percentage range does nair lock work on said characters
-If it can be converted into a death combo (typically some variation of bomb toss into dair spike).


Has anyone on this board explored the nair lock in a similar way that I can use as a reference?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Is there a braintrust/data source regarding Link Nair Locks?
I'm curious and wanted to do a lab study on:

-Who the nair lock works on
-What percentage range does nair lock work on said characters
-If it can be converted into a death combo (typically some variation of bomb toss into dair spike).


Has anyone on this board explored the nair lock in a similar way that I can use as a reference?

The OP has the significant posts made about it. You'll find them under 'Nair Locks and Arrow Locks'. Nobody has gone in depth with each character to determine percents or anything though because there are just too many factors (all the characters, rage, and staleness). If you want to give it a shot though you're more than welcome. Just be sure to post your method of testing.
If you have any further questions feel free to PM me.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Hey, I've used some of my free time to compile data on Dtilt > Uair kill %s on every character in Battlefield. This is of course with no DI since I have no one to help me lab. If anyone is up to the task, I hope you can take what I've got and build upon it with results that include DI. I also don't have Ryu, Mewtwo or Lucas.


I'll cover the MUs that matter first. Off the top platform of Battlefield, Dtilt to Uair:

Spoiler

-kills Rosalina at 65%
-kills Sheik at 70% (because of how fast Sheik falls, Dtilt to Uair is pretty easy to land regardless of DI till around 60%, so that's something to think about in the MU, same can be said about Fox)
-kills Mario at 80%
-kills Sonic at 77%
-kills Zero Suit at 73%
-kills Fox at 70% (very easy combo),
-kills Falcon at 87%
-kills Pikachu at 69%
-kills Tink at 73%, difficult
-kills Ganondorf at 85%, I have no idea why he dies earlier than Falcon other than that maybe it's because he's bigger, so he reaches the blast zone faster.
-Kills Luigi at 73%
-kills Ness at 74%
-kills Diddy at 80%, easy
-kills Link at 83%
-kills the Marths at 77%
-kills the Pits at 79%
-kills Ike at 86%
-kills Shulk (regular) at 81%, Jump Shulk at 82%, Speed at 81%, Shield at 141% (wtf, at least it's an easy combo. I was surprised to not see Shulk go anywhere at all when I Dtilted at 81% lmao. That might combo into Usmash for the kill though. Apparently Usmash doesn't true combo Shield Shulk at all. I didn't know it could do that.), Buster at 78%, Smash at 69%
-kills R.O.B. at 86%
-kills Yoshi at 78%
-kills Falco at 74%, easy
-kills Wario at 85%
-kills Jiggs at 56%
-kills Roy at 83%, easy
-kills Robin at 78%, easy
-kills Kirby at 64%
-kills Lucario at 82%, easy
-kills Charizard at 82%
-kills Meta Knight at 71%
-kills Samus at 80%
-kills Wii Fit Trainer at 73%
-kills Greninja at 72%
-kills Peach at 69%
-kills Bowser at 88%, easy
-kills Jr. at 84%
-kills DK at 92%, easy
-kills Duck Hunt at 80%, easy
-kills G&W at 64%, doesn't combo
-kills Villager at 77%
-kills Doc at 78%
-kills Mega Man at 87%, easy
-kills Palutena at 70%
-kills Olimar at 69%
-kills Little Mac at 77%, easy
-kills Pac-Man at 74%
-kills Zelda at 70%
-kills D3 at 101%, easy

From the center of Battlefield, Dtilt to Uair:

Spoiler

-Kills Sheik at 88%
-kills Fox at 89%, easy
-kills Pikachu at 87%
-kills Mario at 99%
-kills Luigi at 93%, difficult
-kills Sonic at 96%
-kills Link at 104%, easy
-kills Rosalina at 82%
-kills Yoshi at 98%
-kills Falco at 92%
-kills R.O.B. at 106%, easy
-kills Ganondorf at 108%
-kills Diddy at 101%
-kills Ness at 94%
-kills Zero Suit at 91%, easy
-kills Falcon at 110%, easy
-kills Wario at 106%
-kills Ike at 108%
-kills Robin at 98%, easy
-kills Tink at 92%, easy
-kills Marths at 97%, easy
-kills Roy at 106%
-kills Jiggs at 73%, not a true combo
-kills Pits at 98%, easy
-kills Kirby at 82%
-kills Lucario at 104%
-kills Charizard at 105%
-kills Meta Knight at 89%
-kills Samus at 102%
-kills Wii Fit Trainer at 93%
-kills Greninja at 93%
-kills Peach at 88%
-kills Bowser at 111%
-kills Jr. at 103%, difficult
-kills DK at 117%
-kills Duck Hunt at 100%
-kills G&W at 79%, difficult
-kills Villager at 96%
-kills Doc at 100%
-kills Mega Man at 108%, easy
-kills Palutana at 89%
-kills Olimar at 86%
-kills Little Mac at 97%
-kills Pac-Man at 95%
-kills Zelda at 89%
-kills D3 at 124%, easy
-kills Shulk at 102%, jump 103%, speed 102%, shield 167%, buster 99%, smash 88%

 

[TurboLink]

Hey, I've used some of my free time to compile data on Dtilt > Uair kill %s on every character in Battlefield. This is of course with no DI since I have no one to help me lab. If anyone is up to the task, I hope you can take what I've got and build upon it with results that include DI.


I'll cover the MUs that matter first. Off the top platform of Battlefield, Dtilt to Uair:

Spoiler

-kills Rosalina at 65%
-kills Sheik at 70% (because of how fast Sheik falls, Dtilt to Uair is pretty easy to land regardless of DI till around 60%, so that's something to think about in the MU, same can be said about Fox)
-kills Mario at 80%
-kills Sonic at 77%
-kills Zero Suit at 73%
-kills Fox at 70% (very easy combo),
-kills Falcon at 87%
-kills Pikachu at 69%
-kills Tink at 73%, difficult
-kills Ganondorf at 85%, I have no idea why he dies earlier than Falcon other than that maybe it's because he's bigger, so he reaches the blast zone faster.
-Kills Luigi at 73%
-kills Ness at 74%
-kills Diddy at 80%, easy
-kills Link at 83%
-kills the Marths at 77%
-kills the Pits at 79%
-kills Ike at 86%
-kills Shulk (regular) at 81%, Jump Shulk at 82%, Speed at 81%, Shield at 141% (wtf, at least it's an easy combo. I was surprised to not see Shulk go anywhere at all when I Dtilted at 81% lmao. That might combo into Usmash for the kill though. Apparently Usmash doesn't true combo Shield Shulk at all. I didn't know it could do that.), Buster at 78%, Smash at 69%
-kills R.O.B. at 86%
-kills Yoshi at 78%
-kills Falco at 74%, easy
-kills Wario at 85%
-kills Jiggs at 56%
-kills Roy at 83%, easy
-kills Robin at 78%, easy
-kills Kirby at 64%
-kills Lucario at 82%, easy
-kills Charizard at 82%
-kills Meta Knight at 71%
-kills Samus at 80%
-kills Wii Fit Trainer at 73%
-kills Greninja at 72%
-kills Peach at 69%
-kills Bowser at 88%, easy
-kills Jr. at 84%
-kills DK at 92%, easy
-kills Duck Hunt at 80%, easy
-kills G&W at 64%, doesn't combo
-kills Villager at 77%
-kills Doc at 78%
-kills Mega Man at 87%, easy
-kills Palutena at 70%
-kills Olimar at 69%
-kills Little Mac at 77%, easy
-kills Pac-Man at 74%
-kills Zelda at 70%
-kills D3 at 101%, easy

From the center of Battlefield, Dtilt to Uair:

Spoiler

-Kills Sheik at 88%
-kills Fox at 89%, easy
-kills Pikachu at 87%
-kills Mario at 99%
-kills Luigi at 93%, difficult
-kills Sonic at 96%
-kills Link at 104%, easy
-kills Rosalina at 82%
-kills Yoshi at 98%
-kills Falco at 92%
-kills R.O.B. at 106%, easy
-kills Ganondorf at 108%
-kills Diddy at 101%
-kills Ness at 94%
-kills Zero Suit at 91%, easy
-kills Falcon at 110%, easy
-kills Wario at 106%
-kills Ike at 108%
-kills Robin at 98%, easy
-kills Tink at 92%, easy
-kills Marths at 97%, easy
-kills Roy at 106%
-kills Jiggs at 73%, not a true combo
-kills Pits at 98%, easy
-kills Kirby at 82%
-kills Lucario at 104%
-kills Charizard at 105%
-kills Meta Knight at 89%
-kills Samus at 102%
-kills Wii Fit Trainer at 93%
-kills Greninja at 93%
-kills Peach at 88%
-kills Bowser at 111%
-kills Jr. at 103%, difficult
-kills DK at 117%
-kills Duck Hunt at 100%
-kills G&W at 79%, difficult
-kills Villager at 96%
-kills Doc at 100%
-kills Mega Man at 108%, easy
-kills Palutana at 89%
-kills Olimar at 86%
-kills Little Mac at 97%
-kills Pac-Man at 95%
-kills Zelda at 89%
-kills D3 at 124%, easy
-kills Shulk at 102%, jump 103%, speed 102%, shield 167%, buster 99%, smash 88%

I have a 3DS so I can help.